Coffee making: Aeropress to Gaggia Classic

[smalleyboy1]

I having been using an Aeropress for the last 2 years to make my daily morning latte and also coffee at weekends. I probably make about 10-12 coffees per week. I use Rave Coffee for my beans which I grind myself and a cheap Von Shef milk frother.

I get fairly decent results but the espresso has no Crema and the milk tends to be all froth but the coffee is nice enough.

I’m thinking of moving to a semi-automatic machine like the Gaggia Classic to make better espressos and the machine has a decent steam wand. I’m not interested in a bean to cup machine as I like the ritual of making the coffee and the challenge of improving my technique.

I know there is regular maintenance, descaling, back washing etc all of which doesn’t worry me too much. Has anyone experience of moving from an Aeropress to something bigger and how have you found it? Let’s ignore the cost of the machine as that isn’t prohibitive.

Thanks

[Huertecilla]

How come only to Gaggia Classic.

Go the whole hog and go Pavoni Europiccola.

[Franco]

La Pavoni is a classic and a great coffee maker. Also, it is built from solid brass, and all service is rare and straightforward. Parts are easily available. And it has good steam.

Plus has the added bonus that needs some simple careful steps, i.e. a slow approach that will be attractive to somebody who toast his coffee beans. Not one of those “quick to the end” things

PS: The Gaggia and Saeco machines are part of the same company, and share many components. Differences however do exist and are intentional, to differentiate the brands.

[j0hnbarker]

La Pavoni is a classic and a great coffee maker. Also, it is built from solid brass, and all service is rare and straightforward. Parts are easily available. And it has good steam.

Plus has the added bonus that needs some simple careful steps, i.e. a slow approach that will be attractive to somebody who toast his coffee beans. Not one of those “quick to the end” things

PS: The Gaggia and Saeco machines are part of the same company, and share many components. Differences however do exist and are intentional, to differentiate the brands.

I think you need Italian blood to operate a Europiccola successfully.

Had one for ten years and used it daily but my results varied wildly, from perfect shots to burnt liquid rust.

Swapped to a Rancillio Silva and a Rocky grinder and never looked back. Perfect 99.9% of the time.

[Huertecilla]

I think you need Italian blood to operate a Europiccola successfully.

Had one for ten years and used it daily but my results varied wildly, from perfect shots to burnt liquid rust.

Swapped to a Rancillio Silva and a Rocky grinder and never looked back. Perfect 99.9% of the time.

Straight when I had mine, I broke down the recipe in measurable parameters and worked the variables out from there. As long as Í do not stray from the routine, the brew is consistent, just right each and every time.

[hughtrimble]

Just be careful of the model of Gaggia Classic - in 2015 changes were made to it that are generally disliked. The 2019 model rectified many of these issues, but there are online sites that are selling the 2015 design as 2019, because they were made in 2019 and not because they're the 2019 design!

[Franco]

I think you need Italian blood to operate a Europiccola successfully.

Had one for ten years and used it daily but my results varied wildly, from perfect shots to burnt liquid rust.

Swapped to a Rancillio Silva and a Rocky grinder and never looked back. Perfect 99.9% of the time.

Yes John, you may be right
I hade one when I first moved in Sheffield (1990) and had it going for about 9 years, a bit fiddly, a bit temperamental, but fundamentally great if you take care of it. Then my brother in Italy repaired it and he is still using (and maintaining) it at their seaside house.
After that I have been using Bialetti and then Alessi mokka machines , and still do very morning
Ciao
franco

PS: Rancilio makes some mean professional machines, and you can see it in many italian bars

[subseastu]

I'll be interested in what you decide on this. At home we just use a French press for coffee and top off with warm water after grinding beans but I use an aeropress at work and it's great. I take my coffee black, my wife though does like a latte (currently has it flat white) so will follow this thread.

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[Franco]

Of course there is the option of the simple italian Mokka, like the Bialetti or Alessi

https://www.bialetti.com/coffee/stov...-c-1_7_22.html

https://www.alessi.com/gb_en/espress...0-pc-9090.html

[solwisesteve]

Honestly you cannot go wrong with a 'Classic'. I have two of them, one for work and one for home. If you want a proper coffee maker then the Classic is, IMHO, an excellent starting point. Super coffee and super reliable machine which is all user serviceable. The one I have at work must have done perhaps 8 thousand double espressos (my daily tipple) and the only servicing I've had to do is a regular clean once a month and I had to replace the change over valve... a cheap part. For the money, if you're serious about coffee, then there is nothing that can beat it.

[L8_M8]

The Classic is just that a classic, one thing to bear in mind with any coffee machine with Brass internals (which the classic has) is that they take about 20 mins to warm up properly you can extract earlier but to really get it going it needs to be properly warmed. This is one reason I have moved away from these type machines and gone with the convenience of capsules. I do however miss the wand to make milk.

[solwisesteve]

The Classic is just that a classic, one thing to bear in mind with any coffee machine with Brass internals (which the classic has) is that they take about 20 mins to warm up properly you can extract earlier but to really get it going it needs to be properly warmed. This is one reason I have moved away from these type machines and gone with the convenience of capsules. I do however miss the wand to make milk.

No to the 20 mins. I'd say 5 mins. Put the switch on hi-temp and within 5 mins it's hot. Turn boost temp off and then run water from it through the portafilter and ready to go. Yes more faff than a capsule BUT a lot better coffee. It depends upon how serious you are.

[spareparts]

This is one reason I have moved away from these type machines and gone with the convenience of capsules. I do however miss the wand to make milk.

Indeed! Some Nespresso machines have a wand. The wife and I like different coffees: long weak black (Vivalto) vs flat strong white (Kazaar or Roma). We have a Magimix Maestria which has been brilliant over the years. https://www.magimix.co.uk/be/product...esso/Maestria/

[skmark]

Of course there is the option of the simple italian Mokka, like the Bialetti or Alessi

https://www.bialetti.com/coffee/stov...-c-1_7_22.html

https://www.alessi.com/gb_en/espress...0-pc-9090.html

I did exactly this at Christmas moving on to the Alessi 9090......what a difference!!! Forget the machine, this is all you need for a truly great cup of coffee and has it's own little 'ritual' too.

[Hammond]

I’m not interested in a bean to cup machine as I like the ritual of making the coffee and the challenge of improving my technique.

I have a Sage Barista and while it is technically a bean to cup, it's not automated in anyway. You manually control the coarseness of the grind and the weight of your dose and pressure of your tamp. You can re-program temperatures and length of shot. The old school pressure guage always makes me smile.

If you're interested in improving your technique you will have no shortage of variables to play with! The steam wand is excellent (though I'm jealous of my friends Dual Boiler as it's so much quicker).

Only issue is it's pricey at around £500.

[smalleyboy1]

Thanks for responses so for.

The La Pavoni looks interesting and I’ll do some research on it.

I tried a moka pot previously but because of the way it works, you don’t get enough coffee from a one cup and too much from a three cup. As nice as it was, for me it wasn’t comparable to an espresso and the AeroPress is better for my needs.

The Classic gets good reviews, especially the new 2018/19 model that has the solenoid valve and better steam wand.

I will look into some of the other machines mentioned although I’m put off by the sage having an integrated grinder. I’d prefer to have a separate grinder and coffee machine so I can upgrade if I want.

[Hammond]

I will look into some of the other machines mentioned although I’m put off by the sage having an integrated grinder. I’d prefer to have a separate grinder and coffee machine so I can upgrade if I want.

Sage Duotemp is basically the Sage Barista with the grinder removed and £200 less :)

[Scepticalist]

Is the Gaggia Classic now improved again?

When Gaggia were first bought by Philips/Saeco they changed a lot of parts to make it cheaper? So much so that the pre-Philips machines sell for a premium secondhand

[smalleyboy1]

Is the Gaggia Classic now improved again?

When Gaggia were first bought by Philips/Saeco they changed a lot of parts to make it cheaper? So much so that the pre-Philips machines sell for a premium secondhand

Yes, all the things that Phillips did to make it cheaper have been reversed in 2018/9 model.

[solwisesteve]

Yes, all the things that Phillips did to make it cheaper have been reversed in 2018/9 model.

So the new model is essentially the very old model? ;-)

£200 from myespresso... a good price. ISTR paying £165 for my last one (I have two) perhaps 6 years ago now.

btw if you're into steamed milk then you need to bare in mind that the classic is a single boiler unit so if you want to steam some milk you have to pull your shot and then wait for the boiler to super heat for steam.... about 2 mins. Then you can steam your milk. If you then want another shot you have to wait for the boiler to cool down. I'll be honest, if I was a steamed milk kinda person I wouldn't go for the classic I'd look around for a dual boiler product. The sage (breville) products seem to be okay for the money.

[Auto]

This is my set up. Expobar Brewtus double boiler and a Mazzer major grinder.

I went to this from the Gaggia Classic, which is an excellent machine by the way and easily modded if that floats your boat.

I use french press at home and work plus Aeropress.

The idea behind Aeropress is that it’s as near as damn it to espresso as you’ll get (water under pressure).

Most importantly is the grinder in a coffee set up, has to be able to give consistency and correct grind size time after time.

Hope this helps

Auto


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[smalleyboy1]

Solwisesteve - the 2018/9 Classic seems to be circa £380 on myespresso.

I’m aware of the boiler limitations of the Classic but they have made it slightly smaller in the latest update, so it heats up more quickly.

I’ll mainly be making single coffees so can live with the limitations of a single boiler.

My thought is that the Classic will likely do all I need. If I want to upgrade somewhere down the line, then I can sell it and trade up. However from what I’ve read, I suspect it will be good enough for many years.

[solwisesteve]

Solwisesteve - the 2018/9 Classic seems to be circa £380 on myespresso.

I’m aware of the boiler limitations of the Classic but they have made it slightly smaller in the latest update, so it heats up more quickly.

I’ll mainly be making single coffees so can live with the limitations of a single boiler.

My thought is that the Classic will likely do all I need. If I want to upgrade somewhere down the line, then I can sell it and trade up. However from what I’ve read, I suspect it will be good enough for many years.

Oh I was looking at the 2017 model.... right. Wow £380....!

[vertex]

Hi...

I have purchased many things from these people. Very knowledgeable and do good deals too...

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk

I have no connection to this company other than I buy from them.

Regards

V

[Motman]

I’ve recently bought a Sage Nespresso creatista plus. You get a great crema on the coffee, it has multiple programmes, you can set the coffee liquid amount and milk temperature/froth too. £450 in the Nespresso boutique but £350 in John Lewis. In fact the staff in the Nespresso boutique said they couldn’t price match but told me to buy it from John Lewis (three doors down in Bluewater shopping centre), bring it back to them and they will register it with them so that I got the 3 year guarantee instead of the 2 years at John Lewis.

[Auto]

Hi...

I have purchased many things from these people. Very knowledgeable and do good deals too...

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk

I have no connection to this company other than I buy from them.

Regards

V

Yes ask for Claudette she is very knowledgable and great to talk to.



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[T1ckT0ck]

I bought a Brera Gaggia bean to cup couple years back, £280. Using Tesco bottled water as I’m in a hard water area.

It doesn’t do fancy stuff but I’m happy with the espresso it produces. It was a good price point as I didn’t want to spend a fortune. Easy to clean and look after.

I would buy another without hesitation.




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[smalleyboy1]

Thanks to all who have replied.

La Pavoni - looks like a piece of art but most reviews acknowledge it can be difficult to master. I’m not at that level yet and may never want to be.

Moka pot - I’ve tried one before and as nice as it was, it didn’t make an espresso.

Sage coffee machines - I’m going to look further into these.

Auto - your Expobar Brewtus is a magnificent looking machine but at £1,000 it’s more than I need at this stage.

Vertex - many thanks for drawing my attention to Bellabarista

Nespresso - I have used one at work and they are certainly handy but I still tend to choose my Aeropress that I keep in the office over the Nespresso.

Rancilio coffee machines - I need to do some more research into these as they get good reviews.

Single/double boiler - I understand the limitations of the Classic’s single boiler but for my use, I can live with a single boiler machine.

Bit more research required before I make a final decision.

[solwisesteve]

Rancilio coffee machines - I need to do some more research into these as they get good reviews.

Single/double boiler - I understand the limitations of the Classic’s single boiler but for my use, I can live with a single boiler machine.

When I saw the classic was now nudging four hundred quid I was going to suggest the Rancilio offerings. When the classic was a lot cheaper the Rancilio was always through of as the next rung on the ladder... However when classic and Rancilio Silvia are around the same price I'd be VERY tempted by the Rancilio.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/brand...o-machine.html

Comments have been passed re. a grinder. For a long time I used the pre-ground beans from Has-Bean and, believe me, this is a lot better than the supermarket stuff which might have been roasted a year ago and ground probably not long after that! The stuff from Has-Bean will be at most a couple of days old! Once you get used to the machine then it's goto a good grinder but a good one will cost at least as much as the actual espresso machine!!

[Snowdon]

I have had a Rancilio Silvia and can say that the single boiler will drive one round the bend if one is making lattes. I bought it when it was only £300 or so way back in 2007 along with the rocky grinder which I still use for grinding beans for pour over filter coffee.

[Tony]

Once you get used to the machine then it's goto a good grinder but a good one will cost at least as much as the actual espresso machine!!

You won't really know how to use a proper espresso machine without a proper grinder. There's no short cut unfortunately.

My best advice would be buy once and buy well.

I spent over two grand about four years ago on my machine and grinder, but I'm still happy with what I've got and I don't have a loft full of unwanted equipment.

I buy my coffee here by the way:

https://www.rountoncoffee.co.uk/

[smalleyboy1]

For coffee I’ve used a few but for past few years, I’ve used Rave Coffee who roast their own beans to order https://ravecoffee.co.uk

[Pregily]

Gaggia Classic is #1 for me, best price / quality, after testing of many coffee makers finally found the ideal model for me

[j0hnbarker]

Silvia is built better than the Classic. There’s no doubt that it’s a step up.

[smalleyboy1]

Now looking at a Lelit Anna with a PID.

I’m slipping down a rabbit hole.

[Bristolian]

Ooh a half price sale..

https://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/gaggi...m-edition.html

[Scepticalist]

The old model. Though not so bad a price for what you'll get out of it.

Have to admit, didn't realise the new model was £400. As mentioned above, that brings some very good home enthusiast machines into range

[Lelykins]

If you go down the Sage route I would suggest going to Lakeland to get the extended warranty. I had the DTP and whilst it undoubtedly produced good coffee I'm afraid the electrics can be ( not always) a bit iffy. As I said nice coffee though.
I have a Gaggia baby with Rancillio steam wand and it is good. Little more flimsy than the Gaggia classic!

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[acowan84]

I had a gaggia classic and it was great to get me started. Bought a kitchen aid grinder as it’s burr and easy to strip for cleaning and adjust/ fine tune the grind. Worth noting that the gaggia will sell well on the second hand market when you upgrade. I went for Alex duetto which is quality but expensive. Wouldn’t get bogged down on the single boiler vs double unless you plan on making lots of coffee in one go. I could easy make two black coffees and 2 lattes with the gaggia classic in one go. Good luck in finding your machine! Oh go for a good tamp too, the plastic one you get with machine is crap!


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[smalleyboy1]

I had a gaggia classic and it was great to get me started. Bought a kitchen aid grinder as it’s burr and easy to strip for cleaning and adjust/ fine tune the grind. Worth noting that the gaggia will sell well on the second hand market when you upgrade. I went for Alex duetto which is quality but expensive. Wouldn’t get bogged down on the single boiler vs double unless you plan on making lots of coffee in one go. I could easy make two black coffees and 2 lattes with the gaggia classic in one go. Good luck in finding your machine! Oh go for a good tamp too, the plastic one you get with machine is crap!


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Many thanks for the advice. I’m happy with a single boiler and everything I’ve read about plastic tamps matches your advice.

[Nuisance Value]

I got mine from here.. they have new ones at discount and refurbished models too.

https://www.mrbean2cup.co.uk/new-gag...presso-machine

[Tony]

Wouldn’t get bogged down on the single boiler vs double unless you plan on making lots of coffee in one go.

I agree. If you get a decent machine (I have a Rocket Cellini) a single boiler won't be any issue whatsoever for normal domestic use.

[smalleyboy1]

I have ordered a Gaggia Classic. I nearly went with a Lelit Anna with PID and I suspect it is a technically better espresso maker. However, there is more support for the Gaggia and I think it will do everything I need for a few years. To keep this in perspective, I make about 10 lattes per week and my Aeropress has been pretty good for over two years.

Thanks to all who replied.

[lordloz]

I very nearly bought a Delonghi bean to cup in sale a couple of years back but other stuff took priority sadly.

So back to basics for work where I refuse instant coffees and after several glass cafetieres which if you take to work can get broken easily in a bag or go brittle eventually I have had a couple of these stainless steel ones from Andrew James which while much more durable also keep coffee hot for a while and so infuse well.

Andrew James Cafetiere Small French Coffee Press in Stainless Steel 350ml 3 Cup | Double Walled Insulation | Includes Measuring Spoon and Bag Sealing Clip https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EF664..._38MSCb3EV5EC2

And this week after trying a girl I sit next to at work’s one I got this back to absolute basics bare bones coffee filter.

If you’re in a rush but still won’t do instant this e prance honeycomb filter for £13 is a complete bargain....

E-PRANCE Pour Over Coffee Filter, Honeycomb Design Stainless Steel Cone Coffee Dripper, Paperless & Reusable, Permanent Pour Over Coffee Maker with Separate Stand for 1-4 Cups (Style 2) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0756WSV..._5eNSCbT6X3QGS

My delonghi/gaggia etc will come later.... a relative has just got a safilo for £1000 in his florists/plants/gift shop and set up a little take away coffee counter in there so will be taste testing....

Day to day I use a lot Lidl’s French blend or Italian, £1.60 or so, I love Lavazza Nero but amount get through Lidl’s is great but in the shop they’ve started to use Smallbatch from Brighton coffee.

as I did out quite a bit of the store for them and painted shop front etc. & now a director of it, free coffees on the way I think....


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[Pretzel]

I very nearly bought a Delonghi bean to cup in sale a couple of years back but other stuff took priority sadly.

So back to basics for work where I refuse instant coffees and after several glass cafetieres which if you take to work can get broken easily in a bag or go brittle eventually I have had a couple of these stainless steel ones from Andrew James which while much more durable also keep coffee hot for a while and so infuse well.

Andrew James Cafetiere Small French Coffee Press in Stainless Steel 350ml 3 Cup | Double Walled Insulation | Includes Measuring Spoon and Bag Sealing Clip https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EF664..._38MSCb3EV5EC2

And this week after trying a girl I sit next to at work’s one I got this back to absolute basics bare bones coffee filter.

If you’re in a rush but still won’t do instant this e prance honeycomb filter for £13 is a complete bargain....

E-PRANCE Pour Over Coffee Filter, Honeycomb Design Stainless Steel Cone Coffee Dripper, Paperless & Reusable, Permanent Pour Over Coffee Maker with Separate Stand for 1-4 Cups (Style 2) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0756WSV..._5eNSCbT6X3QGS

Some interesting thoughts, and I'm always looking for alternatives, is there a reason you don't use an Aeropress at work?

[lordloz]

Some interesting thoughts, and I'm always looking for alternatives, is there a reason you don't use an Aeropress at work?

not especially really as such

just never got round to getting one as used cafetiere and happy with it,

also as previous work had fixed short breaks at set times & was going to different locations so stainless cafetiere I found sturdy to transport with coffee put in there in morning then pour & go at location but few other people at new workplace use Aeros.

I'm also in and out a lot of the base with this work but in a different way with no fixed room or desk but going to try the e prance next week.



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[woodacre1983]

OP. I hope you don’t mind the thread hijack. I’m a massive coffee yet and totally inexperienced at making good coffee at home. I have the following equipment

-bialetti moka express. Used sparingly for 2/3 years
- gaggia electronic grinder bought off hear.

Yet I always get tons of pre ground coffee off the wife and as gifts.

My question is about grinding. And coffee how long to beans last if not ground? and how best to store ground coffee?

Reading this thread I’m thinking of replacing the grinder with

https://coffeehit.co.uk/products/lid...xoCemIQAvD_BwE

Also how often does the stove pot need the rubber seals changing?


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[PickleB]

OP. I hope you don’t mind the thread hijack...

My question is about grinding. And coffee how long to beans last if not ground? and how best to store ground coffee?

...

Also how often does the stove pot need the rubber seals changing?


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OK, here goes (other opinions are available ).

Coffee beans will last for months, if not years, if kept sealed and away from light and damp. Some people like to freeze them but it doesn't really make much difference...link. If you do put your coffee in the freezer or the fridge then ensure that it's up to room temperature before you open it, otherwise expect some condensation to dampen your coffee...not good.

The best advice is to buy enough fresh roasted beans for two weeks at a time. After two weeks they begin to loose some their best characteristics.

Moka pot seals seem to need changing every two years or so. I think that it is really a matter of personal choice unless the seal begins to fail, eg on a very well used pot.

The Lido is a good choice, IMO. I've very pleased with my Lido 3 but I'm grinding for my moka pot rather than an espresso maker and so don't need the fine adjustment.

I tend to use ground coffee with a V60 cone filter (so that I can easily dispose of the wet grounds without clogging up the sink), especially when travelling.

[chime101]

Good man using Rave. They are brilliant.
I would definitely recommend the Gaggia classic (especially one that may be 5 years old, well cared for and with the OPV modification.
The biggest difference though would be to invest in a decent grinder. I would budget around £230 and for think you wouldn’t go far wrong with a Eueka mignon.
Check out the forum Coffeeforums.co.uk. This is the only way you will get a decent creama. The gaggia will have a good enough steam wand for a couple of lattes at a time. There is a cheap upgrade to the wand Rancilio Silvia which is worth adding.

[smalleyboy1]

Quick update.

Gaggia Classic arrived earlier this week with Gaggia MDF grinder. I got a 58mm convex tamper and frothing jug from Happy Donkey.

Followed the manual and the setup post on Coffee Forums UK. First couple of espressos weren’t that good. However, now getting good crema after I got the grind right and the brew time sorted. Going to move onto a shot bottomless filter over the weekend.

My milk frothing technique needs a bit more practice but happy with the latte I made this morning. Liking it all so far.