Reply With QuoteCertainly sounds like...
Diesels over 4 years old are being charged extra to go in central London and Birmingham and Manchester are going to do the same does this mean they are finished
Certainly sounds like...
For people who drive cars of that age and older who regularly go into the congestion zone, probably. Personally, I drive a 3.5 year old diesel and drive 40,000 miles per annum, predominantly on motorways and A-roads and have managed to avoid the zone for at least the last 120,000 miles so will be replacing the current car in October with another diesel. Until such time as petrol or petrol hybrids catch up the 80+mpg I'm currently enjoying or, when electric vehicles can reliably provide a range of 600 miles, I'll be sticking with diesel.
This^
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I've just bought a used Cooper Clubman d and have no intention of driving in City centres.
Yup, me too. In fact there's no point in me buying new cars whatsoever. Why buy a new car to put 30k on it in one year? I've never spent more than £10k on a car in my 30 years of car ownership. New cars might pollute less but they make no economic sense to me.Originally Posted by BSB
Just another way of fleecing the motorist - especially those who drive, and were encouraged to buy, diesel vehicles. If they are that concerned about people’s health, why didn’t they ban them! Where will this extra money be spent? Will it be ring fenced and spent on health? I doubt it.
I’m sure they’ll find something to demonise petrols too in the near future. Without longer ranges and reliable charging infrastructure, company car drivers who cover long distances just cannot avoid diesels for the time being.
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Many hybrids can beat that. The current Prius can deliver up to 94mpg.
Diseasel's been a disaster. The sooner it's relegated back to tractors where it belongs, the better.
The issues around inner city solution is not just down to cars, but motorists remain an easy target.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I have a 2015 diesel Honda Civic which has zero motor tax because it is declared clean and one of the reasons why I bought it. So why does penalising my car help in keeping London clean.
Are BMW still thinking of assembling Electric Minis in this country?
If that's a real world consumption for the Prius, then I'd be interested to look at one. So far, every Prius owner I've spoken to has reported a real world consumption in the mid 60mpgs. My Golf 1.6 Tdi Bluemotion averages over 80mpg with a best ever approaching 90mpg.
Same reason i bought my 2010 Cooper Clubman, 60mpg and £20 Road tax.
Do you frequently drive through Central London/Manchester/Birmingham?
I'm not a diesel fan. Noisy, polluting (some more than others, but there has been alot of sharp practice), complex and expensive.
I've owned several, but now much happier in a hybrid. We do live in the London suburbs, and the ULEZ was a consideration in our choice.
And I can always pick up some extra cash as a minicab!
I would like to see a schedule set out for scrapping cars based on a combination of engine size and emissions. Polluted air moves so why limit environmental and health concerns to just cities.
For example -
- by 31/12/2019 - engines over 3000cc or over 250mg
- by 31/12/2020 - engines over 2500cc or over 225mg
- by 31/12/2021 - engines over 2250cc or over 200mg
- by 31/12/2022 - engines over 2000cc or over 175mg
- by 31/12/2023 - engines over 2000cc and over 150mg
- by 31/12/2024 - engines over 2000cc and over 130mg
- by 31/12/2025 - engines over 2000cc or over 130mg
If you want to keep a car over the limit for an additional 1 year the road fund licence should be £10,000, for an additional second year £30,000. Then that is it.
You have to adapt your driving style to get the best out of them, but that's equally true of diseasels of course.
And no soot, no stench, no racket, no cancer.
Are you hypermiling, or driving like a cautious vicar?
I drive a diesel and I am really satisfied. All depends on milleage after all. If you are making 20000km+/year, diesel, if not, gassoline. That is based on expenses, other is what you prefer
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Recently sold a 2015 Euro 5 diesel and currently have a Euro 6 diesel but the next car in 3-5 years will be petrol or hybrid.
Biggest issue I have with diesel is the dreadful noise at idle.
I wanted a petrol but the car I wanted in petrol was another 50%!
I think it depends on the model and year if production. New age diseles are not noisy at all
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It’s different strokes for different folks - if you drive a big heavy 4x4 or large family estate and actually do miles - diesels are and long have been the best power and economy Option.
However if you nip to Tesco’s periodically with 2 in the car - an electric / hybrid will win all day long.
I’m a bit bored of the single minded arguments of pro ev and anti diesel - both have their place (and with petrol in between!)
I typically drive at a steady 60-65mph indicated on a motorway. I learned years ago that to try and average any more on today's congested roads only gains a little in time and, should the road not be congested, there's the ever increasing use of smart motorway, speed cameras or roadworks. I no longer worry about my licence, I arrive much more relaxed and fuel consumption is optimised.
There is life outside London you know. We may not have superfast broadband or a good rail system but out in the sticks, life does exist. I visited London some years ago. Once was enough! It's lovely to wake up and hear the birds singing, rather than coughing. Most of our tractors and buses run on rape seed oil too (as they dodge the wind turbines in the fields)! If you want to give your diesels away .............................
Totally agree with you. I drive a diesel and it suits me perfectly, it all depends on what you need or prefer
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It might be declared clean...but it's not clean.
If you have a diesel car and drive 20,000 miles per year, at 80 mpg with diesel costing 1.32 per litre * 3.8 to make it gallons £5.016 per gallon. £5 / 80 = 6.25p per mile £1250 per year vs an electric car doing 4 miles per KWH at 12p per KWH = 3p per mile. 20,000 @ 3p = £600 or £ 1,250...... even better if your car only does the UK average of 35 per gallon £2,857.
Saving over £2,000 per year yes my next car is electric
Last edited by AndyMilts; 8th April 2019 at 09:46.
In which case you'd get great results in a Prius.
I drive similarly and often better the published MPG in my Lexus hybrid.
20,000 miles a year and one car in the family means I'll be buying a bigger, more powerful diesel next year. Until something can offer the same performance, mpg and styling I'll continue with the usual German marques.
Where's the proof of that statement ?
The main issue is how can a government department pass a model as clean in one department and declare it dirty in another.
It's just like encouraging people to buy ev today because it is clean and then declaring that they are dirty because they are instrumental in polluting the air because more electricity has to be generated to power them.
Lack of consistency in government information is unacceptable period.
I think you can compare what comes out of the back end of diseasels and petrols and come to your own conclusions.
Don’t most Prius drivers drive in the outside lane at 80? Is certainly what I’ve noticed on dual carriageways and motorways.
?? There are 4.54 Litres in an Imperial Gallon (you're converting to US Gallons by using 3.8).
Is this 80 urban mpg? Or motorways?
Yes, at the (soon to be) old Honda plant in Swindon. Actually that's just a guess on my part! Swindon has some fabulous facilities and engineering talent/expertise for car manufacture and assembly. Stupid to let that shoo-in opportunity go to waste.
Sorry of course actually make it even more to run a ICE 1.32 X 4.54 = 5.99
Divided by 80 = 0.075p x 20000 = £1500
While my 5 Series 2.0d is laid up with EGR recall, BMW kindled gave me a 530e plug in hybrid to use for the next 10 weeks or so. The following figures are real world from mixed driving, make your own mind up.
The car as a 2ltr Petrol engine up front and a 45 bhp electric motor over the rear wheels (boot is a lot shallower) Petrol tank only holds 50ltrs = 280 miles mixed driving = 32 mpg A full charge yields 22miles at best on full electric, and that’s with no AC infotainment etc. This car is only 2 months old with 976 miles
PS nearly run the Vicar down this morning as he could not hear the car as I turned into the side road slowly, engine only cuts in above 5 mph when in auto e drive
The refinery I work in has just announced a £500m investment in a ULSD production facility-
They don’t usually screw up on investment decisions...so presumably have done some research into the longevity of diesel
There'll always be a place for diseasel. Tractors, trucks, trains. But it's over for cars.
I suppose the issue also concerns usage. I had an old 2.5D Pathfinder yet only covered about 3-4K miles a year. I'd guess my environmental impact would have been far larger doing 30K plus a year in a modern petrol engine?
I regularly see (a journey average) 40-50mpg in my Lexus RX400h when driving on motorways in an economical manner - this is a large SUV hybrid that's 12 years old with over 100k miles on it. A friends new diesel Range Rover with similar performance struggles to get into the 30's when driven in a similar manner and I can still out accelerate him if i need to.
From my experience the case for diesel is dwindling to those who do massive business mileages - in which case any pollution charge is just another business expense, passed on to the customer.
I live in London and frequently travel to Central London, but you could not pay me to drive in Central London. The only time I've been in a car in Central London it took us an hour to do 3 miles - madness!
Unless you absolutely have no choice but drive, Tube is just so much faster and convenient. Why anybody would choose to drive in Central London is beyond me.
Most plug in hybrids are merely “lip service” vehicles designed as BIK beaters.
The only real exceptions were the i3 Rex and the Vauxhall Ampera, neither of which are made any more.
UK car sales data for Q1 was released. Overall sales in 2019-Q1 down 15% from same period 2018. Diesel sales down 47%. Ouch.
The only time I drive into Central London is Sunday morning when the roads are quiet and I can get a good parking space in Mayfair. I've just bought a 2015 Euro 6 X5 and I plan to keep it for the next 5 years. I don't see how diesel is going to be killed off imminently. Diesel can and should be made cleaner.
As I stated earlier, the majority of my mileage is motorway or major A-road. Still can't knock it. Sadly, they've stopped offering the diesel version of the Bluemotion so the next one may be a tad less economical, especially if it's a 2.0 like my previous mark 7s but even then I used to approach 70mpg as an average.
That would be great if the EV had a realistic range. I often do over 500 miles in a day which is easy when I'm getting over 800 miles per 50 litre tank but I couldn't stomach extended stops to recharge. Believe me, once the range is over 600 miles, I'll certainly be changing to an EV.
It's actually exactly the same car as the Euro 6. I also bought a gen 9.5 civic, but mine was registered after the Euro 6 qualifying date, for that reason actually. It's not what the engine puts out, it is the date first registered regardless of emissions so I get the posters point.
As an aside, I didn't keep it long and went back to a Land Rover. I like them and don't need to drive it into the big cities, also the wife's car is petrol to use if needs be.
Currently drive an utterly hideously polluting diesel (a 2001 BMW 530d) with a 3 litre 6 cylinder soot generator and I am extremely aware of how bad it is but having humped a load of money into getting it running nicely over the last few years and not being in a position to afford a new car with any kind of diesel trade in, I just don’t want to get rid of it yet. It’s a dilemma though as I genuinely do care about the impact such a car has environmentally and health wise (I often walk the roads I drive and the diesel fumes are beyond belief sometimes) ... but financially it’s just extremely hard!!
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