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Thread: Pension/Investment fund ideas

  1. #1
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Pension/Investment fund ideas

    I have a few pensions. A couple of workplace ones from previous roles and I've also opened a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdowne. I'd be interested in finding out what funds some of you are invested in as it may turn out to be a source of inspiration/ideas. Currently in my SIPP I'm in 5 funds;

    - Baillie Gifford Managed
    - Fundsmith Equity
    - LF Lindsell Train UK Equity
    - Lindsell Train Global Equity
    - Stewart Investors Asia Pacific Leaders

    Anyone else into the same funds?

  2. #2
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Am invested in 4 of those so hopefully you are doing something right

    Of course your risk profile is not necessarily the same as mine so it’s impossible to say if they are good funds FOR YOU, regardless of how good they are in their own right.

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    All these funds have low OCF <0.50%
    L&G US Index
    L&G International Index Trust
    L&G Global Technology Index
    L&G UK Index
    UBS S&P 500 index

    All these funds have a higher OCF >0.50%
    AXA Framlington Bio Tech
    Jupiter Asian Income
    Jupiter India
    Standard Life UK Smaller Companies
    Threadneedle European Select

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    Whilst HL are good there are cheaper (and better) Sipp providers. Given that charges have a significant impact on returns I’d be tempted to change provider.
    Last edited by craig1912; 3rd April 2019 at 09:22.

  5. #5
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    I’m interested in this thread.
    As an example if you had £25k to sit back on over the next 20 years where would you put it?


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  6. #6
    I’m interested also ,I’ve dabbled in stocks and shares personally over the years but I’m out at the moment after getting burned this last year I’ve just locked a lump sum in a bond for a year at around 2%
    When this ends I’m actually thinking of buying a BTL for cash outright along with all the trouble that comes with it -but I’m out of ideas where else to put the money
    So I’ll keep an eye on this thread

  7. #7
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I’m interested in this thread.
    As an example if you had £25k to sit back on over the next 20 years where would you put it?


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Seek professional advice. Single biggest factor is your attitude to risk and capacity for loss. Doesn’t matter how good a fund is - it may not be appropriate for your risk appetite.

  8. #8
    Craftsman swatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post

    - Baillie Gifford Managed
    - Fundsmith Equity
    - LF Lindsell Train UK Equity
    - Lindsell Train Global Equity
    - Stewart Investors Asia Pacific Leaders

    Anyone else into the same funds?
    I have LF Lindsell Train UK for my UK large cap allocation.
    Whats the reasoning behind 3 separate global funds?

  9. #9
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    I have one pension. A SIPP with HL.

    I have all of it in one fund.

    It means there is no rebalancing to be done and the diversity is "managed" for me.

    No need for anything else with the possible exception of a REIT like LXI to give some exposure to property, unless you have exposure via BTL already.

    https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-disc...y-accumulation

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    I have one pension. A SIPP with HL.

    I have all of it in one fund.

    It means there is no rebalancing to be done and the diversity is "managed" for me.

    No need for anything else with the possible exception of a REIT like LXI to give some exposure to property, unless you have exposure via BTL already.

    https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-disc...y-accumulation

    It's certainly well diversified - interesting

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    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I have a few pensions. A couple of workplace ones from previous roles and I've also opened a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdowne. I'd be interested in finding out what funds some of you are invested in as it may turn out to be a source of inspiration/ideas. Currently in my SIPP I'm in 5 funds;

    - Baillie Gifford Managed
    - Fundsmith Equity
    - LF Lindsell Train UK Equity
    - Lindsell Train Global Equity
    - Stewart Investors Asia Pacific Leaders

    Anyone else into the same funds?
    A good choice of funds there IMO.

    If you wanted to add I always like Marlborough funds run by Giles Hargreaves. If you have time on your side , micro cap or nano cap.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    I have one pension. A SIPP with HL.

    I have all of it in one fund.

    It means there is no rebalancing to be done and the diversity is "managed" for me.

    No need for anything else with the possible exception of a REIT like LXI to give some exposure to property, unless you have exposure via BTL already.

    https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-disc...y-accumulation
    Is there any particular reason you are holding it via HL? You're paying HL twice as much as Vanguard in fees & they aren't doing anything for it given that it's an unadvised platform. It's a shame Vanguard don't run a SIPP direct so you could avoid platform fees but have you looked elsewhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I have a few pensions. A couple of workplace ones from previous roles and I've also opened a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdowne. I'd be interested in finding out what funds some of you are invested in as it may turn out to be a source of inspiration/ideas. Currently in my SIPP I'm in 5 funds;

    - Baillie Gifford Managed
    - Fundsmith Equity
    - LF Lindsell Train UK Equity
    - Lindsell Train Global Equity
    - Stewart Investors Asia Pacific Leaders

    Anyone else into the same funds?
    Is there a particular reason why you think that over time you can beat the professionals in fund selection or even just a passive fund like Vanguard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Is there any particular reason you are holding it via HL? You're paying HL twice as much as Vanguard in fees & they aren't doing anything for it given that it's an unadvised platform. It's a shame Vanguard don't run a SIPP direct so you could avoid platform fees but have you looked elsewhere?
    From what I understand Vanguard will be launching their own SIPP after the 5/4/19 ( not sure how quick after ) , it was meant to be live in January this year but has been put back but still on track to be offered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markrichardsonno9 View Post
    From what I understand Vanguard will be launching their own SIPP after the 5/4/19 ( not sure how quick after ) , it was meant to be live in January this year but has been put back but still on track to be offered.
    Finally! This is great news. Will move my SIPP out of AJ Bell and onto Vanguard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markrichardsonno9 View Post
    From what I understand Vanguard will be launching their own SIPP after the 5/4/19 ( not sure how quick after ) , it was meant to be live in January this year but has been put back but still on track to be offered.
    Interesting, I hadn't heard that. Currently I pay no charges so I wonder if they will extend that to the SIPP.

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    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    It may be that the Vanguard is a minimum purchase of £100,000. It certainly is currently if you want to go direct.

  18. #18
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Is there a particular reason why you think that over time you can beat the professionals in fund selection or even just a passive fund like Vanguard?


    Has there ever been a fund manager that’s beaten their sector’s index over more than a 10 year period? I don’t think so. (Could be wrong but it’d be a rare anomaly)

    Can’t see the point in paying a fund manager to manage your fund when all they’re trying to do is beat the index. May as well just put your cash into the index fund and save the management fee, which itself adds up to a huge chunk of cash when you compound interest it over 30 or 40 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    It may be that the Vanguard is a minimum purchase of £100,000. It certainly is currently if you want to go direct.
    Do you mean for a pension? That's not the case for an ISA or a GIA account.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    A good choice of funds there IMO.

    If you wanted to add I always like Marlborough funds run by Giles Hargreaves. If you have time on your side , micro cap or nano cap.
    +1
    The Marlborough Special Situation is his main fund and supposedly the best performing fund in the history of ISA's. (1k invested in 1999 and no further contributions would be worth 25k today)Its slightly higher risk as its smaller companies but if time is on your side would highly recommend.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investin...4908-20-years/

    https://www.ftadviser.com/investment...ations/?page=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Has there ever been a fund manager that’s beaten their sector’s index over more than a 10 year period? I don’t think so. (Could be wrong but it’d be a rare anomaly)

    Can’t see the point in paying a fund manager to manage your fund when all they’re trying to do is beat the index. May as well just put your cash into the index fund and save the management fee, which itself adds up to a huge chunk of cash when you compound interest it over 30 or 40 years.
    Yes. Lots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    It may be that the Vanguard is a minimum purchase of £100,000. It certainly is currently if you want to go direct.
    I remember that being the case previously but they have their own platform now for ISA and taxed investments, and as others have said SIPP soon.

    I really need to get my **** in gear and move away from HL.I am paying them north of a grand a year now just to hold passive tracker funds. Absolutely no excuse for it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by classics View Post
    All these funds have low OCF <0.50%
    L&G US Index
    L&G International Index Trust
    L&G Global Technology Index
    L&G UK Index
    UBS S&P 500 index

    All these funds have a higher OCF >0.50%
    AXA Framlington Bio Tech
    Jupiter Asian Income
    Jupiter India
    Standard Life UK Smaller Companies
    Threadneedle European Select
    What's an OCF?

    Edit: Consulting Google....Ongoing Charges Figure??

    If so, I pay 0.25% across the board and I hold 4 out of 5 of those funds listed with an OCF > 0.5%
    Last edited by trident-7; 4th April 2019 at 19:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I have a few pensions. A couple of workplace ones from previous roles and I've also opened a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdowne. I'd be interested in finding out what funds some of you are invested in as it may turn out to be a source of inspiration/ideas. Currently in my SIPP I'm in 5 funds;

    - Baillie Gifford Managed
    - Fundsmith Equity
    - LF Lindsell Train UK Equity
    - Lindsell Train Global Equity
    - Stewart Investors Asia Pacific Leaders

    Anyone else into the same funds?
    I hold all of these bar the Baillie Gifford, with Lindsell Train Global Equity being my biggest holding.

  25. #25
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    What's an OCF?

    Edit: Consulting Google....Ongoing Charges Figure??

    If so, I pay 0.25% across the board and I hold 4 out of 5 of those funds listed with an OCF > 0.5%
    Overall cost of fund

  26. #26
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    It’s probably the case that HL are somewhat more expensive than some competitors (but also cheaper than some). However what stands out is their exceptional customer service- their help line is invariably answered within half a dozen rings by someone who really knows what they’re talking about and instructions carried out promptly and accurately.

    The only other organisation I deal with who are as good is the Wine Society. Unfortunately they don’t do funds- but then HL doesn’t do wine.

    I have split my portfolio in half. One half with HL on an execution basis only so I pick the funds / stocks. The other half with St James Place which is totally managed so hands-off from my point of view. Over the past two years I’m currently beating SJP by about 30% - largely as a result of the higher up-front costs which I’m expecting to unwind as time vous on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Overall cost of fund
    What is the OCF made up of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    It’s probably the case that HL are somewhat more expensive than some competitors (but also cheaper than some). However what stands out is their exceptional customer service- their help line is invariably answered within half a dozen rings by someone who really knows what they’re talking about and instructions carried out promptly and accurately.

    The only other organisation I deal with who are as good is the Wine Society. Unfortunately they don’t do funds- but then HL doesn’t do wine.

    I have split my portfolio in half. One half with HL on an execution basis only so I pick the funds / stocks. The other half with St James Place which is totally managed so hands-off from my point of view. Over the past two years I’m currently beating SJP by about 30% - largely as a result of the higher up-front costs which I’m expecting to unwind as time vous on.
    SJP charges are almost embarrassingly high.

  29. #29
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    What is the OCF made up of?
    Everything. Like APR but for funds

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    Over the past two years I’m currently beating SJP by about 30% - largely as a result of the higher up-front costs which I’m expecting to unwind as time vous on.
    I wouldn’t count on it

    https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manage...n-sjp/a1161035

    https://www.yodelar.com/insights/st-jamess-place-review

  31. #31
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    OCF = Ongoing Cost Fee, every fund has these charges sometimes called AMC = Annual Management Charge or FMF = Fund Management Fee.

    Low OCF <0.50% = Funds that have a low OCF less than 0.50%
    High OCF >0.50% = Funds that have a high OCF greater than 0.50%

    Hargreaves Lansdown charge a 0.45% platform fee, that 0.45% Per Annum of every fund that you buy through them.
    For example if you buy/invest in the Legal & General US Index class I fund via HL there will be no buy fee or initial charge (some companies/platforms have these charges depending on the fund)
    1) The OCF which is usually 0.10% but HL gets you a discount of 0.04% so you pay 0.06% OCF
    and
    2) 0.45% platform fee
    = Total 0.51% PA.

    If you bought/invest direct with Legal & General it would cost you 0.10% PA, low cost but it would mean you could only buy/invest in L&G funds for that tax year if in an ISA shelter.
    https://www.legalandgeneral.com/inve...explained.html
    https://www.legalandgeneral.com/inve...for-our-funds/

    The Pros of HL is that it is a great and easy platform to use, you can buy almost every fund available for your S&S ISA or SIPP, usually get discounted Initial Charges and discounted OCF.
    The Con of HL is that you get charged 0.45% PA compared to some other companies/platforms that either have a one off fee or charge less than 0.45% PA.
    https://www.hl.co.uk/investment-serv...interest-rates
    Last edited by classics; 5th April 2019 at 02:18.

  32. #32
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anton863 View Post
    I remember that being the case previously but they have their own platform now for ISA and taxed investments, and as others have said SIPP soon.

    I really need to get my **** in gear and move away from HL.I am paying them north of a grand a year now just to hold passive tracker funds. Absolutely no excuse for it!


    Apologies, I’d not realised Vanguard had already lifted the £100k min purchase. I assumed that wasn’t until they introduced their own SIPP platform.


    In relation to your 2nd point.....have you tried calling HL to ask for a fee reduction? They certainly did this for a lot of customers at the time they put their fees up a few years back. They gave me an annual fee cap across all my accounts (ISA, SIPP, Savings)
    Worth asking and threatening to leave.

  33. #33
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    Lots of good points raised here: ability of fund managers to outperform on a regular basis; effects of costs both of fund and platform; active vs passive; different asset classes and risk profiles.

    I would urge the original poster to read the book Smarter Investing by Tim Hale, to own their investments, to understand the strengths and weaknesses and make informed choices. The older edition is available on Amazon secondhand at £14.75 at the moment. Buy the book, take the time to read it and make your own mind up. If it still seems too hard, use an IFA, but the book should help you to ask the right questions.

    Good luck

  34. #34
    Craftsman swatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Have you tried calling HL to ask for a fee reduction? They certainly did this for a lot of customers at the time they put their fees up a few years back. They gave me an annual fee cap across all my accounts (ISA, SIPP, Savings)
    Worth asking and threatening to leave.
    I think they have cut down on this if not completely stopped. But always worth asking.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    It’s probably the case that HL are somewhat more expensive than some competitors (but also cheaper than some). However what stands out is their exceptional customer service- their help line is invariably answered within half a dozen rings by someone who really knows what they’re talking about and instructions carried out promptly and accurately.

    The only other organisation I deal with who are as good is the Wine Society. Unfortunately they don’t do funds- but then HL doesn’t do wine.

    I have split my portfolio in half. One half with HL on an execution basis only so I pick the funds / stocks. The other half with St James Place which is totally managed so hands-off from my point of view. Over the past two years I’m currently beating SJP by about 30% - largely as a result of the higher up-front costs which I’m expecting to unwind as time vous on.
    Just for the rest of us who think SJP are incredibly expensive can you please list ALL of their charges on your funds? I presume you are aware of them.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Just for the rest of us who think SJP are incredibly expensive can you please list ALL of their charges on your funds? I presume you are aware of them.
    Yep well aware of them. I pay slightly less than 1% inc fund charge, platform charge and IFA fee. Note i said IFA which of course you will be well aware that SJP aren’t.

    I certainly haven’t paid 4.5% initial advice charge (0.5% ongoing)which is outrageous, an initial product charge of 1.5% (ongoing 1%)or will I pay any exit penalties in first six years and then fund charges on top.

    SJP are expensive and yes they have some decent advisers but so do many IFA’s who charge a whole lot less and give independent advice.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by anton863 View Post
    I remember that being the case previously but they have their own platform now for ISA and taxed investments, and as others have said SIPP soon.

    I really need to get my **** in gear and move away from HL.I am paying them north of a grand a year now just to hold passive tracker funds. Absolutely no excuse for it!
    I looked at HL and actually have a ISA with them but chose Fidelity for my SIPP. Providing you have over £250k invested their fees are 0.2% and you get a personal wealth advisor who you can talk to or actually meet up with if you can go to their London office.

    May review again when vanguard introduce their own SIPP

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Just for the rest of us who think SJP are incredibly expensive can you please list ALL of their charges on your funds? I presume you are aware of them.
    Yes- of course I’m aware of them. They will inevitably be higher than a simple investment platform since the whole portfolio is fully managed by them. The only decisions I take these days is how to spend the monthly cheque. This approach isn’t for everyone but I have set it up this way for specific personal reasons.

    I still have the opportunity to make my own decisions and have a bit of a bet with the other part of my investments which are totally under my control.

    I’m probably more fortunate than some in that in addition to a state pension I also have an Armed Forces Pension and a final salary company pension. So my investment portfolio isn’t crucial to my life style.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    Yes- of course I’m aware of them. They will inevitably be higher than a simple investment platform since the whole portfolio is fully managed by them. The only decisions I take these days is how to spend the monthly cheque. This approach isn’t for everyone but I have set it up this way for specific personal reasons.

    I still have the opportunity to make my own decisions and have a bit of a bet with the other part of my investments which are totally under my control.

    I’m probably more fortunate than some in that in addition to a state pension I also have an Armed Forces Pension and a final salary company pension. So my investment portfolio isn’t crucial to my life style.
    But there are so many platforms which manage the whole portfolio & don't charge the incredible amounts that SJP levy (& to be accurate, SJP don't manage the funds themselves, they place client money with many fund managers). The large initial & ongoing fees plus the appalling exit fees are completely unacceptable in my view & I'm not sure are reflected in their fund performance. Their charges are so high even they admit that half of the new deposits don't produce any net income for six years.
    https://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adv...-goes/a1040944
    https://citywire.co.uk/Publications/...eport-2018.pdf

    It's your money & even if you don't need it to maintain your lifestyle please have a look at the corrosive effect of charges on fund values over time. Maybe you are one of the big investors with complex affairs mentioned in the article above. I'm not & I use a manager who charges 0.9% with a 10 year annualised performance of 9.85% (to Dec 2018). Can you say what your SJP returns have been over that period? It would be interesting to know.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    But there are so many platforms which manage the whole portfolio & don't charge the incredible amounts that SJP levy (& to be accurate, SJP don't manage the funds themselves, they place client money with many fund managers). The large initial & ongoing fees plus the appalling exit fees are completely unacceptable in my view & I'm not sure are reflected in their fund performance. Their charges are so high even they admit that half of the new deposits don't produce any net income for six years.
    https://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adv...-goes/a1040944
    https://citywire.co.uk/Publications/...eport-2018.pdf

    It's your money & even if you don't need it to maintain your lifestyle please have a look at the corrosive effect of charges on fund values over time. Maybe you are one of the big investors with complex affairs mentioned in the article above. I'm not & I use a manager who charges 0.9% with a 10 year annualised performance of 9.85% (to Dec 2018). Can you say what your SJP returns have been over that period? It would be interesting to know.
    Fine. You have your views and I have mine. Sorry, but I’m really not interested in any further discussion of my financial affairs with you.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    I’m probably more fortunate than some in that in addition to a state pension I also have an Armed Forces Pension and a final salary company pension. So my investment portfolio isn’t crucial to my life style.
    That reads to me ‘As I’ve got money I’m fine paying well over the odds on my funds’. I’m sure you don’t,mean it as that, but that’s how it looks.

    As for their charges, disagree with others as much as you like, but they are expensive and you are paying far more than you need to and for someone that’s not even independent. Hats off to them though, their business model is great - for them.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    Fine. You have your views and I have mine. Sorry, but I’m really not interested in any further discussion of my financial affairs with you.
    Tends to be the typical response from an SJP client who knows they can’t win the argument.

    I’m not quite sure why anyone, once they know the true extent of the charges would go anywhere near SJP.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I have a few pensions. A couple of workplace ones from previous roles and I've also opened a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdowne. I'd be interested in finding out what funds some of you are invested in as it may turn out to be a source of inspiration/ideas. Currently in my SIPP I'm in 5 funds;

    - Baillie Gifford Managed
    - Fundsmith Equity
    - LF Lindsell Train UK Equity
    - Lindsell Train Global Equity
    - Stewart Investors Asia Pacific Leaders

    Anyone else into the same funds?
    Other than the Stewart fund, I have a reasonable holding in all of yours too.....with LF Global Equity the largest slice of pie. I'm with HL too.......

    Either we are all ok, or heading for collective disaster!

  44. #44
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craig1912 View Post
    Tends to be the typical response from an SJP client who knows they can’t win the argument.

    I’m not quite sure why anyone, once they know the true extent of the charges would go anywhere near SJP.
    Maybe it’s a cult and there’s been some brainwashing going on

  45. #45
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Cheers gents. Should have added that I also transferred a previous work pension that had a fair bit in over to HL and its in a Vanguard Lifestrategy 80 fund. Then every month half of what I save goes I to the Vanguard fund and the other half split across the other 5 funds

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    What is the OCF made up of?
    I believe it is just a management fee, whereas the buy or initial charge fee is (depending on the fund) made up of stamp duty, transaction taxes and possible forex spread.
    Last edited by classics; 6th April 2019 at 01:34.

  47. #47
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by craig1912 View Post
    Tends to be the typical response from an SJP client who knows they can’t win the argument.
    .
    Well I wasn’t planning to have an argument! However I did say in my original post that I had some of my investments in SJP for specific personal reasons.

  48. #48
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    Well I wasn’t planning to have an argument! However I did say in my original post that I had some of my investments in SJP for specific personal reasons.
    Money is a funny subject that people get very defensive about. People are only trying to help here though.

    Would do your own research about the overall fees you are charged and what a similar service would cost at a competitor.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by neillp View Post
    I looked at HL and actually have a ISA with them but chose Fidelity for my SIPP. Providing you have over £250k invested their fees are 0.2% and you get a personal wealth advisor who you can talk to or actually meet up with if you can go to their London office.

    May review again when vanguard introduce their own SIPP
    I’m actually the other way round, with my ISA in Fidelity and SIPP in HL.
    Now I’m trying to get my head around management charges and ongoing fund charges. Could it be that HL negotiated discounts and loyalty bonuses offset the higher management fees, at least to some extent? Fidelity don’t seem to have the same level of discounts and I didn’t see anything about bonuses.

    Not sure I want to move my SIPP for a non-existent saving.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    I’m actually the other way round, with my ISA in Fidelity and SIPP in HL.
    Now I’m trying to get my head around management charges and ongoing fund charges. Could it be that HL negotiated discounts and loyalty bonuses offset the higher management fees, at least to some extent? Fidelity don’t seem to have the same level of discounts and I didn’t see anything about bonuses.

    Not sure I want to move my SIPP for a non-existent saving.
    Charges come in two parts: the fund charges (which is what each fund like Fundsmith, Lindsell Train etc) charge & the platform charge (which is what HL or Fidelity charge for running the system). HL often negotiate a small reduction in the fund charge (want to be on our website? cough up & make us look good) & they often reduce to zero any initial charge (some funds would like to charge you 1 or 1.5% just for the pleasure of taking your money). They key issue is the overall charge. For instance it doesn't make much sense to hold Vanguard Lifestrategy in an ISA with HL as you'd be paying 0.22+0.45% whereas you could pay 0.15% direct with Vanguard. Within a SIPP is different as Vanguard don't have one yet, but it's coming. Fundsmith is similar: you could hold it direct more cheaply than via HL.

    However, using HL gives you access to a lot more funds than Vanguard or Fundsmith do if you think you're good enough to pick funds & come out on top. Quite why investors think that is unclear, but they do.

    HL loyalty bonuses were a nice little wheeze to make it look like investors were getting something back when in fact they came out of charges HL were getting. When the rules changed HL had to start offering unbundled funds which made it much clearer just how much investors were paying. I'd suggest looking at these funds to see just how much you are paying.

    Charges are much clearer these days so you just need to refer to the correct documentation & if anyone is much over 1% total (in my view) they'd better be absolutely stellar.

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