Rolex trying to catch up with demand?

[chrisparker]

I don't think so.
I doubt if Rolex is losing any sleep over 'disgruntled customers' hyperventilating on a watch forum.

It’s not just forum members though. ADs must be sick of sending customers away empty handed, adding names to lists doesn’t pay the rates.

[RJM25R]

Rolex sell a range of 40 different watches.

Stainless sports make up about 20-25-% of that and most people buy what they can see.

Rolex IS aspirational, bought by people who want “A Rolex”, not “a Rolex sub no date, pre Basel 2019 with the 3135 movement” and as such if little Sebastian is getting a watch for his graduation, or Felicity is getting one for her 21st, they go to the fancy shop with Mummy and Daddy, and are given champagne and love, shown tray upon tray of different watches and choose their favourite.

That is Rolex’s core

They (Sebastian and felicity) don’t care about residuals, waiting lists and GMT’s.

They are unlikely to say to mummy and daddy (or hubby or boyfriend) “nah, they haven’t got the BLNR, I’ll wait on the list for 3 years for my gift” they’re 99% likely to choose a different watch with a Coronet on it.


Rolex don’t know/care about our small cabal of OCD WIS, so are unlikely to change their business model.

And I’m unlikely to ever get my GMT Pepsi that I’m on the list for.

[Dave+63]

Rolex sell a range of 40 different watches.

Stainless sports make up about 20-25-% of that and most people buy what they can see.

Rolex IS aspirational, bought by people who want “A Rolex”, not “a Rolex sub no date, pre Basel 2019 with the 3135 movement” and as such if little Sebastian is getting a watch for his graduation, or Felicity is getting one for her 21st, they go to the fancy shop with Mummy and Daddy, and are given champagne and love, shown tray upon tray of different watches and choose their favourite.

That is Rolex’s core

They (Sebastian and felicity) don’t care about residuals, waiting lists and GMT’s.

They are unlikely to say to mummy and daddy (or hubby or boyfriend) “nah, they haven’t got the BLNR, I’ll wait on the list for 3 years for my gift” they’re 99% likely to choose a different watch with a Coronet on it.


Rolex don’t know/care about our small cabal of OCD WIS, so are unlikely to change their business model.

And I’m unlikely to ever get my GMT Pepsi that I’m on the list for.

I don’t know how many times this needs saying before people realise this fact?

[robert75]

Another pedantic sadman. Get a life!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXKVY-_i2c

[mhurley]

I bought a Rolex from an AD in 2009 - I had no previous relationship and just emailed them asking if they would do a GMT IIc with 18% off (my target price) and they said yes - I had it on my wrist the next day!

They had almost every sports model in the window too.

Those were the days!

Interesting, so what was the key year when it all went pear shaped?

[Russ]

Economics.The laws of supply and demand. Stuff like this has been going on since we were all wearing togas. Tea and Pineapples were once worth more than their own weight in gold. Now SS Rolex models are being sold at a premium, fancy that. I don't expect the current situation to change anytime soon. I imagine any increase in production will be soon mopped up by grey dealers making the best of their 'relationship' with Managers of AD's. They will want to protect the value of their existing stock for a start and I'm sure the guys down at the AD like their patronage and the benefits that come with it. AD's will pass on the odd one to their mates and some might indeed have lists and keep the cards for a year but it will be business as usual I reckon.

Any increase in supply would have to be overwhelming to break what's happening now, so as consumers we have the choice to wait, buy or walk away. I nearly died in August 2017, so I perhaps don't look at things the way I used to. I paid a premium for my SD43 in January and it's a pleasure to own. Our own Heywood Milton on his website pretty much sums it up "The NEW RRP is £8,700 and clearly if you could obtain one for that price then you should. Good luck!" That's the world we live in folks and in Rolex terms you can take the choice, on the list or on your wrist. Regards, Russ.

[Dave+63]

Economics.That's the world we live in folks and in Rolex terms you can take the choice, on the list or on your wrist. Regards, Russ.

That’s a great attitude Russ and I’d imagine that for most of us, it would also take a near death experience to realise this.

The kids seem to have it sussed though; YOLO!

[nunya]

Not sure as there are probably many thousands across the world waiting on certain models but if they make a dent in the demand that would be great! Imagine walking up to a jewellers to see subs and GMT's etc in the window....

That would great, a blast from the past, like being back in the 1990’s

[MartynJC (UK)]

Imagine walking up to a jewellers to see subs and GMT's etc in the window....

Just walk down Burlington Arcade. Loads to choose from.

[Stuno1]

Just walk down Burlington Arcade. Loads to choose from.

Haha! True

[spluurfg]

It’s not just forum members though. ADs must be sick of sending customers away empty handed, adding names to lists doesn’t pay the rates.

I'd be okay with sending customers away empty handed, if I can get and keep a whale's business by selling them one or two rare Rolex pieces a year. If none of the Rolex pieces were rare, then I'd have nothing to use to entice customers to spend up to get higher on my 'list' (which uses a ranking system other than first-come-first-served)

[Lasteraar]

Ot here

[LondonNeil]

Interesting, so what was the key year when it all went pear shaped?

I once walked into 5 central london ADs in one evening attempting to get a discount on a sub date. No discount, not a sniff, but one dealer had 2 in stock and all others said they could get one in a week or 2 for me. IIRC that was about November 2011

[boring_sandwich]

Interesting, so what was the key year when it all went pear shaped?

It was fine until the end 2016 from memory.

[RJM25R]

I'd be okay with sending customers away empty handed, if I can get and keep a whale's business by selling them one or two rare Rolex pieces a year. If none of the Rolex pieces were rare, then I'd have nothing to use to entice customers to spend up to get higher on my 'list' (which uses a ranking system other than first-come-first-served)

So you are an AD?

Can you answer some questions???

[33JS]

Interesting, so what was the key year when it all went pear shaped?

It varied by country too. In 2011, Askeland the Rolex AD in Norway would get 2 SS Daytonas every 6 weeks whilst to UK was on years of waiting lists! They gave me 12.5% off a first batch SD4k too!

[Dent99]

Example :- Cox and Son of Gt Yarmouth attended AD’s pre Basel meeting last year to be told , thank you after nearly 90 years and refitting their shop to required Rolex standards that their services were no longer required .... gutted ... doesn’t get close to how they felt ..
Also myself having bought a “number from them over the years for my family and myself and was apparently high on the Daytona waiting list .... now I am in the wilderness .
Deep joy .
Rolexes customer services response ... we do not interfere with retail outlets practices !
Loyalty and proof thereof apparently counts for nothing .
Bitter ...no .... getting older ... yes .
Likelihood of owning a grail Rolex .... Nil , as I do not wish to turn into a circus ( Rolex )trained pony .
Enough said .


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What were Rolex Customer Service supposed to have done? Sell
you a Daytona?!?

[andy tims]

Surely it’s only a matter of time until production is increased and demand met.

Not sure as there are probably many thousands across the world waiting on certain models but if they make a dent in the demand that would be great! Imagine walking up to a jewellers to see subs and GMT's etc in the window....

That's pretty much what they are all saying. Disgruntled customers are bad for business and they need to address the supply concern. Lets hope its true!

They don’t want to meet demand. Keep demand high....keeps prices high......keep demand high....

As I've said before they don't need to up total production, just make a few more of the popular models. They can still keep demand strong in the way Porsche used to "make one less car than you can sell"

[Senninha]

I wonder maybe the UK is not “the market” these days?

I’m not a big Rolex fan, but currently in Tokyo so doing a bit of watch nosing! One shop had sixteen (16) subs, and another a short walk away had 23 (yes, twenty three....) Batman (or should that be Batmen?). All brand new, ready to buy. No wait list, put down cash and leave with it in your wrist.

That was two shops in one area of Tokyo - multiply that across Ginza, Shinjuku etc and there must be a LOT in this city. I wondered that it might be Rolex simply adapting to demand. Many Chinese fly to Japan to shop, and those watch shops are full of them, happily buying AP, PP, you name it. If Rolex are trying to catch the market there and build the brand, maybe more stock heading east now?

[Martylaa]

With the recent decision to drop one of the GMT versions I’ve now come to the conclusion I’ll never be able to be in a position where I can afford to buy one from a Rolex AD, will never be able to get a BLNR as waiting lists will no doubt be immense, prices of dis continued models will jump again and tbh I just can’t see Rolex shipping that many to the UK...

Prove me wrong Rolex, I’m aiming to visit a couple of AD’s tomorrow to enquire about delivery times on a new BLNR but expecting the usual reply lol...


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[Nairn1980]

Example :- Cox and Son of Gt Yarmouth attended AD’s pre Basel meeting last year to be told , thank you after nearly 90 years and refitting their shop to required Rolex standards that their services were no longer required .... gutted ... doesn’t get close to how they felt ..
Also myself having bought a “number from them over the years for my family and myself and was apparently high on the Daytona waiting list .... now I am in the wilderness .
Deep joy .
Rolexes customer services response ... we do not interfere with retail outlets practices !
Loyalty and proof thereof apparently counts for nothing .
Bitter ...no .... getting older ... yes .
Likelihood of owning a grail Rolex .... Nil , as I do not wish to turn into a circus ( Rolex )trained pony .
Enough said .


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You contacted Rolex customer service over this? LOL

[Nairn1980]

With the recent decision to drop one of the GMT versions I’ve now come to the conclusion I’ll never be able to be in a position where I can afford to buy one from a Rolex AD, will never be able to get a BLNR as waiting lists will no doubt be immense, prices of dis continued models will jump again and tbh I just can’t see Rolex shipping that many to the UK...

Prove me wrong Rolex, I’m aiming to visit a couple of AD’s tomorrow to enquire about delivery times on a new BLNR but expecting the usual reply lol...


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Yeah unless you’re a VIP or high spender with them you’ll really struggle to get one at all. They may quote a timescale, but it may never come.
VIPs will always jump the lines, pushing randoms further and further back.

What about an Explorer 2? They’re easier to get, or a Datejust 41?

[~dadam02~]

I wonder maybe the UK is not “the market” these days?

I’m not a big Rolex fan, but currently in Tokyo so doing a bit of watch nosing! One shop had sixteen (16) subs, and another a short walk away had 23 (yes, twenty three....) Batman (or should that be Batmen?). All brand new, ready to buy. No wait list, put down cash and leave with it in your wrist.

That was two shops in one area of Tokyo - multiply that across Ginza, Shinjuku etc and there must be a LOT in this city. I wondered that it might be Rolex simply adapting to demand. Many Chinese fly to Japan to shop, and those watch shops are full of them, happily buying AP, PP, you name it. If Rolex are trying to catch the market there and build the brand, maybe more stock heading east now?

Why wouldn't UK be the market? Wait lists of 3, 5, 10 yrs, unobtainable. Sounds pointless trying to build a market in Japan if there are dozens of these watches sitting in windows when they could sell multiple times those over here in a flash?

[Martylaa]

Yeah unless you’re a VIP or high spender with them you’ll really struggle to get one at all. They may quote a timescale, but it may never come.
VIPs will always jump the lines, pushing randoms further and further back.

What about an Explorer 2? They’re easier to get, or a Datejust 41?

Tbh it’s my own fault, years ago I had the option to trade my subc against a gmt and passed it up, oh how I regret that lol...
Had a few different Rolex models but the gmt is the one I want the most...
Don’t shoot you don’t score so I can enquire at the least...


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[Devonian]

With the recent decision to drop one of the GMT versions I’ve now come to the conclusion I’ll never be able to be in a position where I can afford to buy one from a Rolex AD, will never be able to get a BLNR as waiting lists will no doubt be immense, prices of dis continued models will jump again and tbh I just can’t see Rolex shipping that many to the UK...

Prove me wrong Rolex, I’m aiming to visit a couple of AD’s tomorrow to enquire about delivery times on a new BLNR but expecting the usual reply lol...
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I agree with what you’re saying but going tomorrow won’t be helping your cause. You’re now behind everyone on the previous listens everyone that enquired on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, yesterday and anyone today. I appreciate you may not have been able to go before tomorrow, but that’s not any AD’s fault.

[Nairn1980]

Tbh it’s my own fault, years ago I had the option to trade my subc against a gmt and passed it up, oh how I regret that lol...
Had a few different Rolex models but the gmt is the one I want the most...
Don’t shoot you don’t score so I can enquire at the least...


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Absolutely, and if you can afford to buy the odd other few “bits” from the AD, that helps too.

[Der Amf]

Why wouldn't UK be the market? Wait lists of 3, 5, 10 yrs, unobtainable. Sounds pointless trying to build a market in Japan if there are dozens of these watches sitting in windows when they could sell multiple times those over here in a flash?

Trying to build a market in Japan?! Where has the idea that Japan hasn't got a mature watch market come from? It would be worth looking at the prices on these plentiful - TZ UK members resident in Japan have repeatedly explained that prices there can not be fixed by Rolex. So prices for brand new watches there are, in general, more like our Grey Dealer prices.

[Senninha]

That was my point. If Asians, and particularly Chinese, have a high demand, it’s natural for Rolex to ship a much higher proportion of production capacity there. Even more so if higher prices can be obtained.
(If Rolex don’t participate in those higher prices, I’d have thought they’d be trying to stamp it out, and availability would be more even worldwide)

There could well be other reasons, but certainly here in Japan I didn’t see any shortage I read of in the UK.

I do wonder that China has slowed a lot economically in recent months. I was last here in December, and although I wasn’t paying attention to Rolex I don’t recall seeing such high stocks. I wonder if the supply has been selling at a high level, but perhaps that’s slowing recently, resulting in a build up of unsold stock? If it’s the case it could be good for production capacity being redirected to supply other markets.

[Senninha]

Trying to build a market in Japan?! Where has the idea that Japan hasn't got a mature watch market come from?

Trying to build the market and brand with Chinese visitors to Japan, of which there are very many. Japan of course has a very mature watch market, but the people in the watch stores are a very high proportion Chinese.

[LondonNeil]

I spoke with one of the guys in Harrods recently and he explained high demand in China, and also the middle east, as at lest part of the reason for short supply here.

[jameswrx]

That’s some of the pepsi’s that are for sale on c24 in the uk, wonder how many of those were “never allocated” to the AD?

Take another popular watch, one that’s not hard to get (they’ve had a couple on my goldsmiths for months if not years gathering dust). The Tudor Pelagos, search c24 in the UK and there’s 24 examples on there, search for the new Pepsi and I find 30 for sale in the UK. And that’s just using the ref number, you put Pepsi in and get even more!

Shortage my backside. Shortage of morals somewhere along the line that’s all.

[Wazza]

My theory is that Rolex didn't want to release too many new models this year.

It would be more prudent to allow Omega to burn themselves out with their 50th Anniversary Moon Landing onslaught first.

I think the supply shortage is a carefully orchestrated business model.

[kultschar]

The greys seem to have a nice steady supply just like previous. They dont seem to suffer from shortage

I dont think there is less supply. Just crazy demand and many going out the back door or flipped for a huge profit.

When I picked up my 5711 I could have continued up Bond Street and flipped to a grey few mins later for a nice 10-15k profit. Cant see things changing anytime soon unless prices are increased significantly

[JP Chestnut]

I’m not sure that Rolex are even capable of upping production, unless they invest in a new factory.

Or, you know, they could cancel some other watches and then use that available capacity to produce more of what people want - which is the premise of this thread.

[JP Chestnut]

Big question is, would the demand fall away if suddenly these watches weren't hot anymore. Sure, brand lovers would still buy, but I think a fair few would lose interest.

Definitely. Take a look at TRF. About 95% of the threads are about getting as many watches as possible at any price, since there is no possibly way they could ever cost less than they do right this second. Take away the FOMO insanity, and things return to normal.

[julian2002]

Wis walks into an ad: I’d like a Rolex gmt master II Pepsi with the jubilee bracelet in steel please.
Dealer: sorry they are very rare, how about this gold datejust for a bit more
Wis: nope

Normal bloke walks into an ad: I want a Rolex.
Dealer: Here is a gold datejust.
Bloke: blinding, here’s my credit card.

Transaction type 2 is way more common.




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[RJM25R]

Or, you know, they could cancel some other watches and then use that available capacity to produce more of what people want - which is the premise of this thread.

They ARE producing what people want! Rolex sell way more Datejusts than sports models!

[JP Chestnut]

They ARE producing what people want! Rolex sell way more Datejusts than sports models!

They sell more DJs, but they also aways have plentiful supply, which suggests overproduction. In any case, the premise of this entire thread is that Rolex possibly cancelled the LN GMT2 to make more Pepsis and Black/Blue GMT2s... using that capacity. The only person talking about DJs is you.

[nunya]

Wis walks into an ad: I’d like a Rolex gmt master II Pepsi with the jubilee bracelet in steel please.
Dealer: sorry they are very rare, how about this gold datejust for a bit more
Wis: nope

Normal bloke walks into an ad: I want a Rolex.
Dealer: Here is a gold datejust.
Bloke: blinding, here’s my credit card.

Transaction type 2 is way more common.




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Who walks into an AD and askes to be sold a Rolex, any Rolex?

That’s just dumb. The average consumer, although not interested to the level of a WIS, is still going to be interested and invested when spending £X,000’s on a watch.

Even non-wis would at least pick one they like the look of from the AD window, or more likely look online first, get miffed you can’t buy online, then go to the AD with a specific watch in mind.

[RJM25R]

They sell more DJs, but they also aways have plentiful supply, which suggests overproduction. In any case, the premise of this entire thread is that Rolex possibly cancelled the LN GMT2 to make more Pepsis and Black/Blue GMT2s... using that capacity. The only person talking about DJs is you.

Really? Have you been reading?

I’m not sure that Rolex are even capable of upping production, unless they invest in a new factory. They are already producing thousands of watches a day and that is probably at capacity for the highly trained computers and robots that make them. They could switch production from Datejusts to the sports models but I can’t see that happening as the Datejust is their most popular watch by far. I would also think that, if the sports models were to become more widely available, demand for them would crash as those only after a quick buck would, all of a sudden, pass on them.

Well as far as Basel 2019 is concerned Rolex and Tudor have been a damp squid, with the odd smattering of newish upgraded models no one really wants! EG a TT Sea Dweller which is about as much use as a diamond encrusted hammer! Instead they could have fitted the 3235 movement to the Sub date and produced a Datejust 38 to bridge the gap between the too small/large for many 36 /41. Maybe after last years Basel, which unveiled many great models from both companies, there was little left in the tank for this year. Roll on 2020

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Wis walks into an ad: I’d like a Rolex gmt master II Pepsi with the jubilee bracelet in steel please.
Dealer: sorry they are very rare, how about this gold datejust for a bit more
Wis: nope

Normal bloke walks into an ad: I want a Rolex.
Dealer: Here is a gold datejust.
Bloke: blinding, here’s my credit card.

Transaction type 2 is way more common.




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Anyway......

Supply and demand, if they have extra capacity they’ll make what they sell. If it’s true, about increased manufacture, it might be Datejusts or GMT’s, no one really knows.

[744ER]

With the recent decision to drop one of the GMT versions I’ve now come to the conclusion I’ll never be able to be in a position where I can afford to buy one from a Rolex AD, will never be able to get a BLNR as waiting lists will no doubt be immense, prices of dis continued models will jump again and tbh I just can’t see Rolex shipping that many to the UK...

Prove me wrong Rolex, I’m aiming to visit a couple of AD’s tomorrow to enquire about delivery times on a new BLNR but expecting the usual reply lol...


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Maybe wait until basel is over and they know their allotment for the next year... nothing they hate more than the busybodies hanging on the doorhandle at opening lol.

[sunaxi]

Who walks into an AD and askes to be sold a Rolex, any Rolex?

That’s just dumb. The average consumer, although not interested to the level of a WIS, is still going to be interested and invested when spending £X,000’s on a watch.

Even non-wis would at least pick one they like the look of from the AD window, or more likely look online first, get miffed you can’t buy online, then go to the AD with a specific watch in mind.

I've worked with one person who did exactly that. He just wanted to be able to say that his watch was a Rolex, he didn't care about anything else. So he went to his local AD and bought pretty much the first watch that he saw. He never had it serviced and was completely unaware that it would even need servicing until a colleague and I suggested that it might be a good idea.

He did the same at the local Porsche dealership, although that Boxster lasted under two weeks before he introduced it to a lamppost.

[Mick P]

Everything is available - at a price as a walk down the Burlington Arcade will prove.

So to quote that old saying - if you want the honey, spend the money.

It's all down to how much you want it, but if you want it bad, it's there.

[chrisparker]

Wis walks into an ad: I’d like a Rolex gmt master II Pepsi with the jubilee bracelet in steel please.
Dealer: sorry they are very rare, how about this gold datejust for a bit more
Wis: nope

Normal bloke walks into an ad: I want a Rolex.
Dealer: Here is a gold datejust.
Bloke: blinding, here’s my credit card.

Transaction type 2 is way more common.

Transaction type 2 isn't way more common in my experience. I've a ton of friends (normal blokes), and when it comes to spending thousands of pounds on a watch they know what they want. We all do, sure the odd time you come out with something unexpected but it's not the norm. We all do our research, see ads, want that particular model and nothing else will do – and that's often the case whether it's a pair of shoes, a bike, or a watch.

There aren't that many WIS to make waiting lists years long, it's normal punters too.

[spareparts]

Rolex ADs are selling plenty of professional sports range watches. Just not to WIS or people who won’t or are unlikely to buy other stuff from them. Rolex is a great brand to be associated with as an AD as Rolex are natural upsell bait for customers. I understand from an AD that last year their Rolex sales were up 150% YoY due to increased supply from Rolex to them. Do not know if this was for all ADs however.

[Dave+63]

Transaction type 2 isn't way more common in my experience. I've a ton of friends (normal blokes), and when it comes to spending thousands of pounds on a watch they know what they want. We all do, sure the odd time you come out with something unexpected but it's not the norm. We all do our research, see ads, want that particular model and nothing else will do – and that's often the case whether it's a pair of shoes, a bike, or a watch.

There aren't that many WIS to make waiting lists years long, it's normal punters too.

I’d wager that the majority of people who buy a Rolex don’t even know that the Hulk, BLNR, BLRO etc exist.

They’ll be aware of the submariner and GMT but, judging from what they see in AD windows, will think that they’re only available in TT or PM.

I don’t think I’ve seen any Rolex advertising that isn’t just advertising Rolex as opposed to any individual model. Of course, I may not be looking in the right places and stand to be corrected.

[jameswrx]

Who walks into an AD and askes to be sold a Rolex, any Rolex?

That’s just dumb. The average consumer, although not interested to the level of a WIS, is still going to be interested and invested when spending £X,000’s on a watch.

Even non-wis would at least pick one they like the look of from the AD window, or more likely look online first, get miffed you can’t buy online, then go to the AD with a specific watch in mind.

Type “buying my first Rolex” in to YouTube and you’ll see (that type of person)

Unfortunately the name carries more kudos than any other consideration. You’ll also see in the comments lots of people discussing buying a ‘Rolex’ without any detail or model reference.

[robert75]

Type “buying my first Rolex” in to YouTube and you’ll see (that type of person)

Unfortunately the name carries more kudos than any other consideration. You’ll also see in the comments lots of people discussing buying a ‘Rolex’ without any detail or model reference.

I’m not sure YouTube is a good reference for your average first Rolex buyer.

[jameswrx]

I’m not sure YouTube is a good reference for your average first Rolex buyer.

Nope but was just answering the statement. It does happen and it shows that people do buy Rolex for nothing other than the name.

[paskinner]

Judging from relatives and friends, they just know that Rolex is ‘it’, think they are expensive, and would buy purely on the look they prefer; like other expensive products.
My partner’s key criteria when choosing a new car is the colour.....and why not. Like watches, most products are just fine.