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Thread: MotoE burned out

  1. #1
    Grand Master
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    MotoE burned out

    Yesterday night in Jerez the MotoE paddock burned out completely. Bikes, equipment and all.
    An investigation about the cause is started.

    The opening round has been cancelled.

    The series sofar is not.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  2. #2
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Where were you last night Petrus??

  3. #3
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    I was burned out too.
    In bed.
    In Málaga with c-company.


    The first thing said was: ´There were no bikes charging at the moment.´

    We will hear sómething but whatever we will be told, the fire clearly highlights the hazards of the e-tech.

    Also not very clever risk management imo to have all the e-ggs in one basket.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  4. #4
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    MotoE burned out

    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    I was burned out too.
    In bed.
    In Málaga with c-company.


    The first thing said was: ´There were no bikes charging at the moment.´

    We will hear sómething but whatever we will be told, the fire clearly highlights the hazards of the e-tech.

    Also not very clever risk management imo to have all the e-ggs in one basket.
    You really have no evidence to support either of the last two comments. There are any number of reasons for the fire and it could just as easily have been any of the other paddocks.

    I would say that, all things considered, e-tech is probably safer than Internal combustion. We’ve seen plenty of occasions when a bike has gone up in flames.

    Let’s just wait and see what comes out before jumping to conclusions.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    You really have no evidence to support either of the last two comments. There are any number of reasons for the fire and it could just as easily have been any of the other paddocks.

    I would say that, all things considered, e-tech is probably safer than Internal combustion. We’ve seen plenty of occasions when a bike has gone up in flames.

    Let’s just wait and see what comes out before jumping to conclusions.
    The riscs of modern batteries stocked together increases greatly.

    Controlling a fire of them is basically impossible.

    ALL of MotoE was in ÓNE paddock tent.

    Let´s agree to disagree.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  6. #6
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    The riscs of modern batteries stocked together increases greatly.

    Controlling a fire of them is basically impossible.

    ALL of MotoE was in ÓNE paddock tent.

    Let´s agree to disagree.
    The risks of large volumes of fuel stocked together increases greatly

    Controlling such a fire is basically impossible

    All Moto gp fuel stored in one place.

    I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but it’s all really irrelevant until the cause of the fire is determined.

  7. #7
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    I managed to short out a set of lithium polymer cells in one of my scooters. I couldn’t believe how fast they heated up and set on fire. Luckily I managed to get the scooter outside the garage and rip the + cable from the controller.

    The batteries took ages to cool down.. I went back to lead acid after that..👍🤪

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    I managed to short out a set of lithium polymer cells in one of my scooters. I couldn’t believe how fast they heated up and set on fire. Luckily I managed to get the scooter outside the garage and rip the + cable from the controller.

    The batteries took ages to cool down.. I went back to lead acid after that..浪
    I went LiFe for the rally car and swapped it into the MR2 because of the incrédibly light weight.
    Although LiFe is not nearly as susceptible to overcharging still installed a Voltage gauge.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but it’s all really irrelevant until the cause of the fire is determined.
    I do disagree with what you are saying because regardless of the caúse, my points remain valid.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    I do disagree with what you are saying because regardless of the caúse, my points remain valid.
    No it's not, it could have been started by anything.

  11. #11
    Lipo batteries are fairly dangerous things, they can have a habit of swelling and sometimes bursting into flames for no apparent reason, I don’t know what battery technology these bike use but the batteries are probably number one suspect.

    Check out the UN regulations for starage and transport, I think it’s 3840
    Last edited by adrianw; 14th March 2019 at 21:19.

  12. #12
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    This is what Energica say about their batteries.

    https://www.energicamotor.com/technology/

    Again, until the cause is known, there’s nothing more to be said really.

  13. #13
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    During my 32 years in the Fire Service, as an operational firefighter, once a fire was extinguished it was usual practice for our experienced and highly trained experts to determine the cause of a fire. They were trained at the internationally renowned Fire Service College, at Moreton in Marsh. Of course we'd have a very good and usually correct idea ourselves, but when matters can end up in court under oath, then expert opinion is called for, not the musings of comparative laymen.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    During my 32 years in the Fire Service, as an operational firefighter, once a fire was extinguished it was usual practice for our experienced and highly trained experts to determine the cause of a fire. They were trained at the internationally renowned Fire Service College, at Moreton in Marsh. Of course we'd have a very good and usually correct idea ourselves, but when matters can end up in court under oath, then expert opinion is called for, not the musings of comparative laymen.
    c'mon, a different week and a different subject he is an expert on.................don't spoil his fun with expert advice!!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Lipo batteries are fairly dangerous things, they can have a habit of swelling and sometimes bursting into flames for no apparent reason, I don’t know what battery technology these bike use but the batteries are probably number one suspect.

    Check out the UN regulations for starage and transport, I think it’s 3840
    Appearantly the UN are wrong.
    There is absolutely nó reason why airline companies are strict about them either.

    Good to read they are easily extinguished.


    Bottom line is the whole MotoE went up in flames because of OBVIOUSLY poor risc management.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Bottom line is the whole MotoE went up in flames because of OBVIOUSLY poor risc management.
    The bottom line is that the motoE paddock went up in flames for reasons AS YET UNDETERMINED! N

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Appearantly the UN are wrong.
    There is absolutely nó reason why airline companies are strict about them either.

    Good to read they are easily extinguished.


    Bottom line is the whole MotoE went up in flames because of OBVIOUSLY poor risc management.
    🔔 end

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Appearantly the UN are wrong.
    There is absolutely nó reason why airline companies are strict about them either.

    Good to read they are easily extinguished.

    Bottom line is the whole MotoE went up in flames because of OBVIOUSLY poor risc management.
    Shocking (pun intended) but not unexpected ignorance.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Shocking (pun intended) but not unexpected ignorance.
    He really should be charged for that last comment.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    He really should be charged for that last comment.
    Yes, it fell completely flat.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    The bottom line is that the motoE paddock went up in flames for reasons AS YET UNDETERMINED! N
    I was looking at a video on the Moto GP app Nicolas Goubert director of Moto E said that the fire started whilst the bikes were being charged, they were almost at the end of the process and there were 4 personnel in the tent. One of the crew noticed smoke and fumes coming from an experimental prototype charging station.

    They had an extinguisher on hand but they couldn’t get the fire out, and had to evacuate..

    So it seems it was nothing to do with the batteries, which is a good thing.... they lost 18 bikes.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    Yes, it fell completely flat.
    He really should alternate his comments.

  23. #23
    Craftsman Tifa's Avatar
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    The ebikes have all burned?

    Oh dear.
    How sad.
    Never mind.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    Yes, it fell completely flat.
    Or or, he seems quite positive on his current stance on this.

  25. #25
    We’ve seen a lot of potential difference on this thread...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGJG View Post
    We’ve seen a lot of potential difference on this thread...
    Piles of it.

  27. #27
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    The charges against the batteries may be dropped.
    The current theory blames a charger.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    The charges against the batteries may be dropped.
    The current theory blames a charger.
    There appears to be ample evidence of watts at volt.

  29. #29
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    Authorities are looking for someone with an electric personality apparently. Friction and lack of lubrication may have been involved.
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.

  30. #30
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    I for one am enjoying watching the progress of both the bikes and Formula E. I'm a massive petrol head but also like to see the evolution of new technologies. Tis event is a major set back for the series and I feel sorry for the teams.

  31. #31
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    MotoE organisers have confirmed the cause of the Jerez paddock fire which destroyed the majority of the bikes and equipment as a short circuit which ignited batteries.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    MotoE organisers have confirmed the cause of the Jerez paddock fire which destroyed the majority of the bikes and equipment as a short circuit which ignited batteries.
    There you go then... a short circuit that ignited the batteries. It would have also ignited other fuel sources

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    There you go then... a short circuit that ignited the batteries. It would have also ignited other fuel sources
    Other fuel sources would not have needed charging. And they might have been able to control the fire.
    Hypothesis undoubtedly but rushing to claim victory in the debate is ill advised.
    The point is that having all the emoto equipment together is a bad idea, and they need to be able to control a starting fire.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  34. #34
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    Lithium Ion batteries represent a significant risk when involved in fire, whilst they do not contain lithium in metallic form. The main danger is the electrolyte (there are a few types) nut the main ones contain Flourine. A specific type of extinguisher needs to be used for these type of batteries and any run off is pretty nasty toxic/corrosive stuff.

    When a lithium ion battery is involved in fire they produce their own oxygen alongside highly flammable gasses - once ignited they often result in 'thermal runway' which is an uncontrolled thermal reaction which spreads to adjacent batteries.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    There you go then... a short circuit that ignited the batteries. It would have also ignited other fuel sources
    Not quite. I think you are misunderstanding this to be a short-circuit which results in sparks and then something starts burning as a result of sparks flying. But this is about short-circuitting a battery, i.e. short-circuiting the poles of a battery. A LiPo battery will likely start burning as a result of such a short-circuit, while there is nothing to short-circuit with traditional fuels.

    The risk profile of a battery-filled paddock is completely different, not necessarily worse than a traditional paddock. It might be that the organisation didn't reflect the different risk profile. I have dealt quite a bit with LiPo batteries in my former drone business, you always remove them from the vehicle when not in use. There are rather safe storage possibilities in containers with semi-automatic extinguishers designed with sand. If the bikes were parked overnight with the batteries inside (and possibly even charging, conflicting info on charging being published), the organisators will have difficult discussions with their insurance.
    Who not knows how to hit the male on the hat should not hit at all.

  36. #36
    Local police are still concluding their investigation into the fire but have announced the fire was caused by a short circuit which ignited a high-density battery that is part of the high-performance charger used in MotoE. The source of the short circuit is yet to be confirmed.

  37. #37
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Local police are still concluding their investigation into the fire but have announced the fire was caused by a short circuit which ignited a high-density battery that is part of the high-performance charger used in MotoE. The source of the short circuit is yet to be confirmed.
    Never in a million years would a Police force be qualified or experienced enough to conduct a/any fire investigation.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  38. #38
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Local police are still concluding their investigation into the fire but have announced the fire was caused by a short circuit which ignited a high-density battery that is part of the high-performance charger used in MotoE. The source of the short circuit is yet to be confirmed.
    A shortcircuit is part of the risk profile when dealing with electricity - that is why your house and car have fuse-boxes. Trouble is that electric chargers cannot be protected by fuses as the currents are so high. This is addressed by making the chargers short-circuit-proof. This reaches its limit when you have a battery inside the charger to balance the load, as said any short-circuit to a LiPo is potentially hazardous and once lit, those fires are very difficult to manage. That's why you store the batteries in safety storage boxes.

    The fact that a battery has caught fire is part of the risk profile. How this can lead to the entire paddock burning down is the question which needs answering.
    Who not knows how to hit the male on the hat should not hit at all.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    The risk profile of a battery-filled paddock is completely different, not necessarily worse than a traditional paddock.


    It’s horses for courses...

  40. #40
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    ‘cilla came up with a theory. Why the resistance?

  41. #41
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    ‘cilla came up with a theory. Why the resistance?
    Amperently he is a specialist.
    Who not knows how to hit the male on the hat should not hit at all.

  42. #42
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Amperently he is a specialist.
    That’s the current thinking.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    That’s the current thinking.
    Watt's the issue?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Watt's the issue?
    You don’t have to be Sherlock ’Ohms to work it out

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGJG View Post
    You don’t have to be Sherlock ’Ohms to work it out
    Nobody has been charged so far.
    Who not knows how to hit the male on the hat should not hit at all.

  46. #46
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGJG View Post
    You don’t have to be Sherlock ’Ohms to work it out
    Possibly a bright spark?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  47. #47
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    I wish the mods would pull the plug on this thread

  48. #48
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Hopefully the circuit is ok?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  49. #49
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Hopefully the circuit is ok?
    Best one yet.

  50. #50
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    Best one yet.
    It has transformed the thread.
    Who not knows how to hit the male on the hat should not hit at all.

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