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Thread: Other 'Achievement' or 'famous' watches?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Scott was Armstrong's co-crew on Gemini 8 when Armstrong wore Jimmy Mattern's Wittnauer (see above) on the other wrist from his Speedmaster, so was completely familiar with the idea of carrying another timepiece.
    Dave
    I don't deny that, but you may want to look into the complexities of Bulova's relationship with NASA and the vast effort they went to to get bulova back on Astronaut's wrists. Because this:



    Was the default watch of astronauts until the Speedmaster came along and was the watch worn by Scott on Gemini eight.

  2. #52
    I care not who did what whenever whilst wearing whatever.
    My Casio GW-M5600 gets me through thick and thin every working day without any fuss.
    That qualifies it as my 'achievement' watch. I'm sure we all have our own.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    I don't deny that, but you may want to look into the complexities of Bulova's relationship with NASA and the vast effort they went to to get bulova back on Astronaut's wrists. Because this:

    Was the default watch of astronauts until the Speedmaster came along and was the watch worn by Scott on Gemini eight.
    Don't think so, Scott is pictured wearing his Speedie with the crew on board the vessel having just been picked out of the water on Gemini 8, and Armstrong was definitely wearing a Speedie, it is clearly visible on his way to launch

    D

  4. #54
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    Ben Saunders' Bremont Endurance:

    "...the new Bremont Endurance set out with Ben in November 2017 to make the first solo and unsupported crossing of Antarctica. This west-to-east traverse from Berkner Island to the Ross Ice Shelf via the South Pole and the Shackleton Glacier was planned by Ben's close friend Lt Col Henry Worsley, who nearly completed the expedition before falling ill and passing away in hospital in Chile in January 2016."

    https://www.bremont.com/products/endurance

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Don't think so, Scott is pictured wearing his Speedie with the crew on board the vessel having just been picked out of the water on Gemini 8, and Armstrong was definitely wearing a Speedie, it is clearly visible on his way to launch

    D
    If you say so, then I'm probably wrong as I was trusting memory - I'll double check. Do you have an easy picture?

  6. #56
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    ...you may want to look into the complexities of Bulova's relationship with NASA and the vast effort they went to to get bulova back on Astronaut's wrists. ......
    The mechanical Speedy should never have been the astronaut's watch. What should have been was some kind of tuning fork chronograph/timer but NASA for some reason* rushed the decision, and did not give Bulova time enough to develop such a watch.

    Bulova was fully capable of making accutron timers...
    http://www.decadecounter.com/accutron/aerospace.htm

    * We can get into that at some later time, in another thread.

  7. #57
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    If you say so, then I'm probably wrong as I was trusting memory - I'll double check. Do you have an easy picture?
    Yep, here



    The hi res NASA piccies are great

    Dave

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Of course they do. However, it's less often that they are persuaded to do so by a major American corporation that was supplying NASA but lost the contract and was desperate, in several ways, to get it back and really want to prove it in action. That that happened and then the only Speedmaster failure just happened to happen that one time...
    Paranoia seems like such hard work, but like a stopped clock you may get it right once in a while and I'm sure that makes it all worthwhile!

    I get more mileage put of Ockham's Razor.. One watch developed a fault and he used a backup. The fact he couldn't even recall the make of the back-up when first asked indicates how little he was invested in watch brands. That issue is wholly ours.

  9. #59
    Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Probably worth its own thread. Q&A with DS here: https://www.fratellowatches.com/frat...ut-dave-scott/

  10. #60
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    Maybe for now more on investing for watches is more on scarcity. Like the Brand : Rolex (https://www.intime.co.id/rolex/), Fossil (https://www.urbanicon.co.id/watches/l/fossil.html), Hublot (https://www.thetimeplace.co.id/b/16/hublot), Audemars Piguet (https://www.timeinternational.co.id/...demars-piguet/). The rarer the watches, the higher the price and value of art.
    Last edited by hasantime; 15th March 2019 at 04:39.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    Probably worth its own thread. Q&A with DS here: https://www.fratellowatches.com/frat...ut-dave-scott/
    The Fratello article says Scott found out the chronograph was a Bulova in 2014, but he actually found out in 2011 when he went to his bank to recover his Bulova stopwatch used on the same flight, which was sold to Larry McGlynn.

    Mr. McGlynn posted about the chrono in this thread on Collectspace.com:

    http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Foru...ML/001199.html

    saying he had photos of the chrono from his visit to the bank with Scott.
    Another member of collectspace got in touch with the myBulova.com site to see if anyone could help with which model it could be, and after a little digging I found Larry McGlynn's own site here:

    https://www.spaceartifactsarchive.com

    I then contacted the owner and admin of myBulova Stephen Ollman, gave him Mr. McGlynn's email address and told him to ask nicely for some info on the watch, with a view to getting actual photos of it.
    Stephen did so, and Mr. McGlynn contacted Scott, who gave his permission to pass on a photo of the chrono to myBulova, giving them the scoop of the horological century.
    Here is the 2014 thread that shows the very first picture to be seen in public of the Bulova 'moon watch'.

    https://www.mybulova.com/forums/bulo...moon-apollo-15

    The first picture was posted March 21st. 2014, about 3/4 down the thread.

    So there you have it, my little part in the 'outing' of the Bulova 'Moon Watch', of which I am a bit proud. :-)

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    The mechanical Speedy should never have been the astronaut's watch. What should have been was some kind of tuning fork chronograph/timer but NASA for some reason* rushed the decision, and did not give Bulova time enough to develop such a watch.

    Bulova was fully capable of making accutron timers...
    http://www.decadecounter.com/accutron/aerospace.htm

    * We can get into that at some later time, in another thread.

    Strange and little known, but this 1969 NASA crew equipment document:

    http://history.nasa.gov/afj/aoh/aoh-v1-2-12-crew.pdf

    gives a description and image of this 'Accutron Astronaut Chronograph.'









    Close up of image.







    Intriguing, no?

  13. #63
    Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Strange and little known, but this 1969 NASA crew equipment document:

    http://history.nasa.gov/afj/aoh/aoh-v1-2-12-crew.pdf

    gives a description and image of this 'Accutron Astronaut Chronograph.'

    ...

    Intriguing, no?
    A chronograph Accutron Astronaut mentioned in '69 is very intriguing indeed...

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    Paranoia seems like such hard work, but like a stopped clock you may get it right once in a while and I'm sure that makes it all worthwhile!

    I get more mileage put of Ockham's Razor.. One watch developed a fault and he used a backup. The fact he couldn't even recall the make of the back-up when first asked indicates how little he was invested in watch brands. That issue is wholly ours.
    Thanks for the adhominem. Now go and read up about the behaviour of Bulova during this period.

    I think I’ll invoke the little known second half of Ockham formulation: ‘beyond necessity’. In this case, there is the fact that he was persuaded to take it, didn’t declare it on a mission where everything was declared and weighed and subsequently got caught during a scandle about astronauts carrying stamps for profit. Bulova carried on trying to persuade NASA that theirs was the watch to use for some time after that. Given that Scot was persuaded ro wear the Bulova chrono and had owned and worn the Accutron well before thatt he was protesting too much.

    As for my investment. I own both and have written a damn sight more about the Speedmaster, and even been accused of fan boy coolmaid quaffing in the past:

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/speedmaster-stutter-536101.html

    I May be wrong, but a paranoid fan boy I’m not.

  15. #65
    Breitling Emergency (first version), saved some lifes.

  16. #66
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    I got a fair amount of grief from my mother for wearing a Timex Ironman on my wedding day (went through a lot with several variants of that watch). Clinton did me a favour...


  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Cousteau also had spirotechnique, doxa... and the ploprof of course
    A good read about:

    Cousteau and the timepieces of the Calypso team:

    https://monochrome-watches.com/coust...o-team-part-1/

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    We can get into that at some later time, in another thread.
    After reading the various space related posts and links in this thread I can’t wait!!

  19. #69
    Cousteau also wore a Marine Chronometer.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    I got a fair amount of grief from my mother for wearing a Timex Ironman on my wedding day (went through a lot with several variants of that watch). Clinton did me a favour...
    Clinton is a proper watch buff
    Here is an article about his watches


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/deploya...-states/%3famp

    He has many others as well including several Kobolds and a Frank Muller.

  21. #71
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by futon river crossing View Post
    Cousteau also wore a Marine Chronometer.
    As did Eric Tabarly
    Well, everybody in Casablanca has problems. Yours may work out.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Strange and little known, but this 1969 NASA crew equipment document:

    http://history.nasa.gov/afj/aoh/aoh-v1-2-12-crew.pdf

    gives a description and image of this 'Accutron Astronaut Chronograph.'









    Close up of image.







    Intriguing, no?
    A tuning fork chronograph wasn’t made until the 70,s though! Omega supplied some Speedsonics to NASA for evaluation, they were not taken up though.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    As did Eric Tabarly
    Who also wore a Lip Nautic Ski.

    Cousteau and the Calypso team worked their way through most of the iconic dive watches - Submariner, 50 fathoms, Doxa, Ploprof, Nautic Ski.

    And then there's Sir Francis Chichester's Rolex Oyster Perpetual, worn during the first solo circumnavigation using the clipper route.

  24. #74
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonK View Post
    Who also wore a Lip Nautic Ski.
    Speaking of Lip, I give you the R27 from 1958



    Worn both by De Gaulle and Eisenhower
    Well, everybody in Casablanca has problems. Yours may work out.

  25. #75
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Learner View Post
    After reading the various space related posts and links in this thread I can’t wait!!
    You can start preparing* by reading the thread here (especially the entries by: hp2114b)

    Accutron Astronaut Stories
    https://www.watchtalkforums.info/for...read48762.html

    It follows the recent discovery of the other Nasa tested watches...

    Finally!!! The Identity Of The Other NASA-Tested Watches
    https://www.fratellowatches.com/the-...ested-watches/


    * I am having an eye operation... but I will be back in a couple of days.

  26. #76
    Overlooked by the moonwatch but the X-33 speedmaster is worthy of note
    http://ialreadyhaveawatch.com/watch-.../x-33-history/

  27. #77
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    The reason that the Bulova Chrono wasn't accepted was that, Ironically, it failed the NASA procurement criteria that the watch had to be 51% American made. Thanks to the long standing relationship with Star watch cases, the Omega was. The Bulova chronograph was made by Universal Geneve in Switzerland and didn't.

    The Accutron was well and truly proven in the X15 and the NF104A. It was the standard replacement issue for the A17 in these, and a few other programs. While it is perfectly true that the 214 Accutron was the standard panel and instrument package timer, that's not an argument against the Speedmaster and mechanical chronographs, it's an argument for them. The variation was a good thing in case some sort of solar event interfered with an electrical watch and the chronograph function was of undoubted value.

    Incidentally, the first watch in space gets complicated - the first watch movement was, and indeed still is, a 214 accutron in Vanguard 1 (March 17 1958) The first watch, the first watch to make it back and the first watch on a living creature was a Pobeda, on the collar of Chernuska the dog on March 9 1961.

    The first watch on the wrist of a man is debatable, but it certainly wasn't a chronograph, it was a simple three hander and while it is traditionally a 1МЧЗ 'sturmanski', there's more than a suspicion that it was an almost identical Zim watch, also not unlike Cernuska's Pobeda, but with a dial that celebrated a memorial to a famous skirmish during the Russian revolution. It's certainly the watch in the section of the Cosmonaut's museum dedicated to the flight.
    Last edited by M4tt; 20th March 2019 at 00:44.

  28. #78
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    So with the preceding in mind, here's a picture of the very first watch in space:



    A 1МЧЗ Pobeda 34-K, on the collar of Chernushka in Sputnik 4 on March 9th 1961.

  29. #79
    Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Sturmanskie would certainly have you believe that Gagarin wore the 1МЧЗ, and in the famous image below it looks more like the Sturmanskie than the Pobeda with the striking 'Chapaev' dial design. It would be interesting to know what inscription, if any, is used to describe the watch on display in the Cosmonautics Memorial Museum. I hope to visit one day.




    There are a few later images where he is clearly wearing the Pobeda. Maybe it was presented after the event.


  30. #80
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    First spacewalk (in export version):


  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    So with the preceding in mind, here's a picture of the very first watch in space:



    A 1МЧЗ Pobeda 34-K, on the collar of Chernushka in Sputnik 4 on March 9th 1961.
    Marvellous. There's a great post on WUS about the Pobeda's journey and the Smithsonian interviews with Dr. Genin.

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/ac...e-4680659.html



    Last edited by Mr Curta; 20th March 2019 at 19:00.

  32. #82
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    Sadly the first cosmonaut to travel into space more than once was also the first cosmonaut to die during a mission, Vladimir Komarov.



    I think that Leonov's EVA 3017 was probably similar in dial pattern to the Poljot branded version in Post #15.

  33. #83
    Ian Fleming’s 1016 must have seen some decent action in various ways.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  34. #84
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    Longines/Wittnauer Weems MkI:



    As worn by pretty well anyone who flew anywhere in the thirties and actually arrived. It wasn't just a watch, it was a navigation philosophy.

  35. #85
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    Just to get the other non radioactive version in, here's the watch worn by Илья Курякин:


  36. #86
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    Maybe stretching the ‘watch’ theme a bit, but there can’t be many more revolutionary than John Harrison’s Marine Chronometer H4.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by futon river crossing View Post
    A tuning fork chronograph wasn’t made until the 70,s though! Omega supplied some Speedsonics to NASA for evaluation, they were not taken up though.
    Yet this watch existed, was noted to have a "stopwatch control" and the image shows a watch with two crowns, one at around 2 and one at three o'clock.
    Maybe a Bulova prototype, who knows?

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    The Fratello article says Scott found out the chronograph was a Bulova in 2014, but he actually found out in 2011 when he went to his bank to recover his Bulova stopwatch used on the same flight, which was sold to Larry McGlynn.

    Mr. McGlynn posted about the chrono in this thread on Collectspace.com:

    http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Foru...ML/001199.html

    saying he had photos of the chrono from his visit to the bank with Scott.
    Another member of collectspace got in touch with the myBulova.com site to see if anyone could help with which model it could be, and after a little digging I found Larry McGlynn's own site here:

    https://www.spaceartifactsarchive.com

    I then contacted the owner and admin of myBulova Stephen Ollman, gave him Mr. McGlynn's email address and told him to ask nicely for some info on the watch, with a view to getting actual photos of it.
    Stephen did so, and Mr. McGlynn contacted Scott, who gave his permission to pass on a photo of the chrono to myBulova, giving them the scoop of the horological century.
    Here is the 2014 thread that shows the very first picture to be seen in public of the Bulova 'moon watch'.

    https://www.mybulova.com/forums/bulo...moon-apollo-15

    The first picture was posted March 21st. 2014, about 3/4 down the thread.

    So there you have it, my little part in the 'outing' of the Bulova 'Moon Watch', of which I am a bit proud. :-)
    I love the standard forum know-it-all's response, first reply. Complete with condescending ellipsis!

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenPecked View Post
    I love the standard forum know-it-all's response, first reply. Complete with condescending ellipsis!
    Thats annoying me now as I cant see any ellipsis...

    Anyway, was just going to say that Wittnauer is lovely!

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by NASA
    NASA News Release 72-189


    3:00 PM, September 15, 1972



    ...Unauthorized Timepieces

    Another irregularity that has come to light in the investigation of Apollo 15 was that Scott had on board two timepieces (a wristwatch and stop watch) that were not part of the normal mission equipment. During the preflight training period, Scott had agreed to evaluate these timepieces for the manufacturer at the request of a friend. Thinking they might be useful, particularly for the possible emergency timing of a manually controlled propulsion maneuver, Scott carried them on the mission but without prior authorization. NASA has deliberately withheld the name of the manufacturer of the timepieces to avoid commercialization of this unauthorized action.
    ...

    Specific Actions

    In recognition of the apparent intent of the Apollo 15 crew to gain personally from the exercise of their astronaut privileges in the matter of the unauthorized postal covers, but considering as well their ultimate rejection of such personal gain, Scott, Worden, and Irwin have been formally reprimanded. Their official Efficiency Reports as military officers reflect a formal finding of lack of judgment. These two actions result in severe career penalties, whether the astronauts remain in Federal service or not. In addition, the Department of Justice is investigating whether any criminal statutes have been violated and also whether any civil action on behalf of the Government is warranted. The Department of Justice has requested that NASA issue no further statements on this matter until the Department has completed its review.
    My bold

    Scott never flew again, but worked hard to rehabilitate himself. Of course he knew what the watch was. He'd worn an Accutron Astronaut for years, he'd been approached by the company through its representative and a fellow astronaut, Frank Boorman and persuaded to wear one and agreed to "make every attempt to give the Bulova chronograph a full evaluation". He also knew damned well that if he admitted he knew what the watch was, he'd be driving a truck through NASA's stated policy (above) and undermining his own defence before Congress' committee on Aerospace and space sciences who were deeply sceptical of his motives in carrying the watch.

    So to return to my suspicion, while already directly disobeying standing orders given by Deke Slayton and the more general rule about government employees profiting from their position, it just happened that prior to Scott's final spacewalk, the only failure of a Speedmaster in the Apollo program just happened to occur, allowing him to 'give the Bulova chronograph a full evaluation'. This is the man who covertly signed several hundred stamps on the moon for fun and profit and got very publicly caught. Was he above damaging a watch to give the watch he'd been asked to evaluate its moment?
    Last edited by M4tt; 21st March 2019 at 21:47.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Thats annoying me now as I cant see any ellipsis...

    Anyway, was just going to say that Wittnauer is lovely!
    Thank you, the watch is tiny, but very very pretty on the wrist.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Good.

    You'll be wanting some more detail then. I'll not be taking Curta's utterly sensible advice from the draft thread and instead I'll explain precisely why I said it. There's no point in being a know it all if you can't back it up.
    I'm pretty sure he was referring to the forum know-it-all on this thread: https://www.mybulova.com/forums/bulo...moon-apollo-15 Unless you are also FifthAvenueRestorations on that particular forum? Have some more ellipsis...

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampoc View Post
    I'm pretty sure he was referring to the forum know-it-all on this thread: https://www.mybulova.com/forums/bulo...moon-apollo-15 Unless you are also FifthAvenueRestorations on that particular forum? Have some more ellipsis...
    I really am getting far too sensitive in my dotage. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Deleted.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    I really am getting far too sensitive in my dotage. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Deleted.
    We've all done it. You should really pay more heed to Mr Curta in future ;)

  45. #95
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    The story of Ed White and his Speedy always interested me, I wrote a couple of posts about it a few years ago:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...te+speedmaster



  46. #96
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    Great thread, thanks for posting. Have always loved my dad's all original Ed White that he got from his dad.

  47. #97
    Wow, some interesting stuff about Scott and Accutron there.
    Nice work, Matt and Bobbee👍👍

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    My bold

    Scott never flew again, but worked hard to rehabilitate himself. Of course he knew what the watch was. He'd worn an Accutron Astronaut for years, he'd been approached by the company through its representative and a fellow astronaut, Frank Boorman and persuaded to wear one and agreed to "make every attempt to give the Bulova chronograph a full evaluation". He also knew damned well that if he admitted he knew what the watch was, he'd be driving a truck through NASA's stated policy (above) and undermining his own defence before Congress' committee on Aerospace and space sciences who were deeply sceptical of his motives in carrying the watch.

    So to return to my suspicion, while already directly disobeying standing orders given by Deke Slayton and the more general rule about government employees profiting from their position, it just happened that prior to Scott's final spacewalk, the only failure of a Speedmaster in the Apollo program just happened to occur, allowing him to 'give the Bulova chronograph a full evaluation'. This is the man who covertly signed several hundred stamps on the moon for fun and profit and got very publicly caught. Was he above damaging a watch to give the watch he'd been asked to evaluate its moment?
    Dave Scott, NASA's philatelist.

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