Afternoon all,
Hope you're having a good weekend and just thought I'd look for some input on another one of my businesses.
I got some really helpful feedback on my last one of these so your thoughts would be greatly appreciated
So basically I make knives as a side business to my furniture. What started as me just wanting to make my own bushcraft/outdoor knife has turned into a small little business. I have a decent amount of kit and my processes like heat treating are refined quite well now I have an electric kiln and hardness tester.
Where I'm struggling here is that they just don't seem to be selling as well as I'd like. At the moment I sell 1-3 a month but I'd really like to get a few more going through the workshop. I've had some really decent feedback on them so far and they seem to be very popular with the limited people who have them. I had a good review on Bushcraft UK (https://bushcraftuk.com/review-the-a...nife-tool-tkt/)
That article lead to quite a few sales for me and I think it's where the majority of them come from.
So at the moment I offer them on my Shopify store, it's a large knife and a smaller knife - they have actually sold equally with the smaller knife being more popular with the instagram community.
Essentially what I'm trying to find out is are fixed blade outdoor knives something that just doesnt appeal to people anymore? Maybe it's kitchen knives I need to move to? I've tried to keep my prices as low as possible but maybe I'm pricing myself out of the market?
Here's a link to the knives I sell on my website: https://www.etrentmaker.com/collections/frontpage
And a few pictures here of some I've made:
I think fix blade knives will have a limited market place, that said I really do like the look of the product and will consider one, I have done a bit of spoon carving in the past and hope to get back to it this year. The review you have on bush raft is very good.
Kitchen knives may be more sellable and the Instagram set is probably a good place to market yourself, do you market these knives on Instagram? I couldn’t find you having a quick look earlier.
Good luck with the venture.
I agree with this. I have had two or three kitchen knives made and finding a British maker a) whose prices were “reasonable” and b) who wasn’t sold out for the foreseeable future would be great.Originally Posted by StuS
I love a knife (so may be in touch).
.
I'd say kitchen - and certainly BBQ - knives are big business.
The other thing I saw that looked great was a course where you pay to learn how to, and then make your own knife. Don't know if that's something you could explore.
I think it is a price issue when you can get very good quality fixed blade knives for £10-£15.
I use Mora knives because I use them and sometimes abuse them, I don't want to worry about losing or ruining a £100 plus knife.
Your market I would think is the arm chair knife fancier who are not buying the knife to use it.
https://www.springfields.co.uk/mora-...4aApXVEALw_wcB
https://uk.knivesandtools.eu/en/pt/-...caAnBLEALw_wcB
Yeah I do use instagram but I must admit I'm terrible at keeping up with it at the moment,
https://www.instagram.com/trentknifeandtool/
It's probably my biggest weakness as I'm not much for the whole 'EDC' life kinda of thing with all the trinkets and hashtags but I could definitely do more.
I've made a few chef's knives in the past for friends weddings, I think that kind of pattern would be the one thats most popular?
I usually make them like a santoku - I dont have any pictures to hand.
It looks very nice , 01 tool steel. Bit of an Alan wood woodlore Ray mears knife on a budget for those who like a dabble In bushcraft
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Last edited by bond; 9th March 2019 at 21:12.
At the moment I use O1, it keeps the cost reasonable and performance wise O1 is excellent in edge retention (toughness) and the overall sharpness that can be achieved is superior to low grade stainless steels.
It also means being a carbon steel I can heat treat it in house with my kiln and can assure it's exactly to my specifications - when I was learning how to heat treat I got through a lot of blanks getting them to exactly how I want them. This puts them at around 58-60HRC (tested on my hardness tester) and through testing they last very well.
Super steels like 3V, 90V etc I can do but it's at a much higher cost as the material itself is not only more expensive but I also have to send them out to be heat treated.
My overall aim is to have knives that are made entirely by me in Dorset that are not only nice looking but highly functional.
My full-tang, 4mm thick blade bushcraft knife was lost when I separated from my ex-partner so I’ve bookmarked your website for when it’s time to replace it. I like the sound of the steel you use. I also like the hands-on feel you present, almost like you have tried out every one of your knives before approving it for sale.
I agree that a range of knives would help you appeal to a wider audience and I partially agree that there are cheaper knives that some will prefer. I prefer to buy something bullet proof that will age well and be a pleasure to use when camping. I thought about buying a Mora but they feel insubstantial and throwaway, no surprise for something that costs the same as a bag of timber at the campsite. I’m happier making decisions to buy something that lasts.
I would love a few handmade kitchen knives and could justify the expense as they’d be used regularly.
I would find it more difficult to justify the expensive of a fixed blade utility/hunting knife as it would just sit in a drawer.
Kitchen knives with handles showing off your woodworking skills, though likely in stabilised wood or synthetics so the inevitable moisture ingress doesn't blow out the joins?
Could even do wooden knife blocks to go with them in sets? Those may be harder to make competitive in pricing given the absolutely vast array out there...again though if made beautiful with your joinery, that would stand out.
Yeah, this is very much my train of thought, kitchen knives would be far easier to justify for people! Even small paring knives would be more useful to people every day.
- - - Updated - - -
Yeah that's something I could definitely do, maybe as an add on though?
I'll have to start drawing up some prototypes.
Those are some beautiful knives EJ
I bought all sorts of antler, Exotic woods and blades to start making knives in my garage but one of my sheds collapsed (Gone rotten with age!) so everything was jammed in to the garage, I erected a larger steel shed but somehow filled it and still left the garage almost full!
Anyhow, I have a small collection of knives but the trouble is these days that they seem to be frowned upon due to the lunatic fringe sticking them in to each other
I recently bought a couple of Bushies at a local bootsale, managed to lose the Enzo before I got back to the car but then found it again!!
I feel sure that people will still buy quality knives such as you're making but i'm unsure whether kitchen hardware would sell any better than bushcraft sharps
John
Now then John, is this 'small collection' similar to your 'a couple of' air rifles and watches?
Anyhow, I have a small collection of knives but the trouble is these days that they seem to be frowned upon due to the lunatic fringe sticking them in to each other
Yes it isNow then John, is this 'small collection' similar to your 'a couple of' air rifles and watches?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Now then John, is this 'small collection' similar to your 'a couple of' air rifles and watches?
Not nearly so Hugh!
John
I also think this is your issue, having a large collection of knives which are usually bought after reading reviews I can't honestly see why people buy the higher priced ones unless for bragging rights which is pointless.I think it is a price issue when you can get very good quality fixed blade knives for £10-£15.
I use Mora knives because I use them and sometimes abuse them, I don't want to worry about losing or ruining a £100 plus knife.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKlcBpKbAvM
There aren't many small production manufacturers that would offer their products to go through those destruction tests.
Last edited by K300; 10th March 2019 at 00:59.
Do you only own basic G shocks?
Think of cheap knives like cheap watches - yes, they work, but they lack the finesse of higher quality and thus higher priced pieces.
One cuts just as one tells the time, but what you pay for is the nature of the delivery.
I don't think your prices are too high, given the materials and type of knife. They are, after all, handmade, and in today's mass production world that is becoming rare.
However which market are you making them for?
Fixed blade knives do have a limited market due to the restrictions on their possession in a public place (not a problem for those who have a valid use for them). The bushcraft market has shrunk over the last few years in my experience. At one time any knife labelled as 'bushcraft' would sell readily and some were real howlers in terms of quality and finish, with questionable heat treating as well. Now I think a 'bushcraft knife' would need to be similar to the Ray Mears/Alan Wood style and top notch to even sell.
The 'hunting' market is also limited, there are people out there willing to pay a lot for a quality knife, but they have to know it's available. Also knife steels have moved on from 01 and if people are going to pay a premium price for a knife they want high performance steels. Steels such as RWL34 stainless can outperform 01, and are heat treatable with a decent kiln.
You can't compete with the likes of Mora for price and value. I was at the Shooting Show the other week at the NEC and some stands were selling knives. A carbon or stainless Mora under £20 with plastic handle and plastic sheath is unbeatable if value for money is important to you.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Most handmade knives by decent makers would walk through those 'destruction tests' and probably fare better if made from some of the modern stainless powder steels.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
another one you're up against
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/produ...on-steel/56524
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJYhPs9sNWU
You're far more likely to be relying on a knife to keep you alive than a watch so can you please define 'higher quality' in this context.Think of cheap knives like cheap watches - yes, they work, but they lack the finesse of higher quality and thus higher priced pieces.
Basically true for pretty much anything we buy I think.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
In today's fearful atmosphere of even the word 'knife' and Asda removing all single kitchen knives from their stores, are there any circumstances that would allow one to carry a straight knife outside the confines of one's own garden?
Hence the rise in knife crime...
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Oaky,
Serious question,
As well as my day jobs I'm about to start a Bushcraft leadership course and will need a strong knife that can keep an edge, my thoughts are for a fixed blade any suggestions regarding type of steel to look for and any recommendations up to say £50, nothing with a Klingon blade something functional that will be going strong in 10 years.
n2
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
All depends on the kind of grind you want on the blade really. Most bush crafters seem to favour the scandi grind and carbon steel, normally 01. They regard them as easy to sharpen and taking a reasonable edge. I find them good for battoning through wood and other hard work but clumsy for most other tasks. My favourite is a full flat grind in decent stainless, but then the usual tasks for those are slightly different and require more of a slicing cut. Skinning, food prep etc.
I'd buy the cheapest, and go on the course where you will see what the instructors use and favour for the type of use you need. Then, if you see something that really suits you, you won't mind buying another.
Virtually full flat grind, stainless and cheap as chips.
https://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/...eath-knife.htm
Standard bush crafter style with scandi grind, 1075 carbon steel blade and again cheap as.
https://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/...lore-knife.htm
The indomitable Mora, does what they say on the tin.
https://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/...lade-knife.htm
What can I say..........the original (well nearly)
https://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_P...shcraft-Knife/
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Appreciate your help
n2
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I can sell you an Spyderco Bill Moran in VG10 for £60 I dont use anymore,
VG10 is a solid midrange steel and new this knife was £120 or so,
Handle is super grippy even in the wet, too.
OOK makes a number of good points
I think the UK is a poor market for a fixed blade maker as the target market is so small. When I visit plants in the USA and socialise, it amazes me how many people own a fair bit of land and hunt deer on their own property (especially in Virginia). You just don’t do that in the UK
If you are able to make folding knives, the market opens much wider. I regularly carry a folding knife but never a fixed blade.
Certainly go on Instagram. It is being used by a lot of makers.
Number 2 - I’d be interested to hear what your course instructors use.
I think my main issue is that my instagram presence isnt as good,
I just find the self promoting difficult I guess, it would just be easier if more people used them but with knife legislation increasing I can only see it becoming more challenging.
I think you need to more directly address your target market - whether chef knives or hunting knives. Facebook have several active groups for both. Both markets are already very competitive, though. Emberleaf knives seem to be flavour of the moment with the hunting fraternity.
Having used it a few times now the Varusteleka knife is doubtless great for building a shelter in the Arctic Tundra, skinning a moose, or defending against a pack of marauding wolves, but I think I’ll stick with my Stuart Mitchell.
Lovely knives you are making.
I would honestly make more effort with your IG profile. Look at it as a marketing tool to guide people to your website.
Your photos are good. But you’ve posted photos without any # hashtags, why? Hashtags make the world go round in IG. You can use up to 30 per post. If you want more new people, potentially new customers to see your work get busy on IG.
Engage with people on IG, comment on others work, ask questions, answer questions.
Yes it will take some time and effort, but it’s free and I’m sure you would make more sales via IG if you worked at it.
The UK market for hunting knives is small as you say. There are forums such as Jerzeedevil in the USA and they have sales sections just as TZ has but you have to advertise a single knife not a permanent advert. I have sold a lot in the USA in the past.
I'm making some folding prototypes at the moment, it involves a lot of work and everything has to be exactly right for them to function properly. Chinese folders such as Rough Rider can be had under £20 and are well made, so working out a price for a folder which has 20 hours of work in it could be fun!
You have to sell the quality factor (and provide it of course).
I tried a Boss over and under double rifle at the Shooting Show recently, they make no more than 18 guns a year and even their shotguns start around £80k. Theres a 2 1/2 year wait from order date until delivery and their order books are always full. Quality will always find a market.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
For me Instagram is nothing special.
I started an Insta page 6 months ago and i keep it "fairly" active... only ever had one sale from it.
The majority of my work is sold on here, or locally (craft fairs etc).
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