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Thread: The Smiths Mk XI Navigator

  1. #51
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Now there's an idea, a Smiths COSD.............

  2. #52
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Now there's an idea, a Smiths COSD.............
    I was considering suggesting a rebirth of the prototype Smiths Quasar Constellation. Of course in COSC it would be even better. (Like it happened with the last version of the PRS-18).

  3. #53
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    I was considering suggesting a rebirth of the prototype Smiths Quasar Constellation. Of course in COSC it would be even better. (Like it happened with the last version of the PRS-18).
    ETA has discontinued that movement.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Now there's an idea, a Smiths COSD.............
    Maybe one nearly came into being....? Pic from the Cotswold auction of what may have been a large part of SmithS R&D dept.

  5. #55
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    ......

    The flat bezel reminds me of a Longines COSD, except twice as thick: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...-military-cosd
    Sorry I've been getting my COSD and COSC mixed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    Maybe one nearly came into being....? Pic from the Cotswold auction of what may have been a large part of SmithS R&D dept.
    The one on the right here looks very much like the Longines COSD.

  6. #56
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Wow, I never knew.
    Nice case, but the more common (less rare?) 2 colour Longines dial and hand set is a lot more compelling than those simple sticks.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    The one on the right here looks very much like the Longines COSD.
    As I understand it, it is a COSD case. I think the 'best guess' at the moment is that Dennison made the case, who obviously had a close link with SmithS. Revo will know more.

    I think the Longines COSD dial and handset in the Dennison 13322 case is a fabulous looking watch, I actually prefer it to the COSD case as a watch in itself, obviously the COSD case adds a whole 'nother level of historical interest.

  8. #58
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  9. #59
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    That's the one. Love the blued handset, especially the concave-diamond ended second hand. Although the one featured is missing all its lume.
    Longines have done re-issues themselves, but made the pointless by putting a date on it and giving it no WR at all, so there is certainly room for a proper re-make.

  10. #60
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    The way that article was written... it implies that the case, etc, were made in the UK. To see a similar prototype case with a Smiths movement... it feels like they were both sourcing cases from the same supplier.

  11. #61
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    The pic that I posted earlier from the Cotswold auction has a SmithS MkVll on the left (failed contract to supply the MOD with a centre seconds pilot watch, only 2 known examples) which is itself in a Dennison 13322 case. The case is particular and peculiar to the movement which has a 13''' dial plate and a 12''' rest of the movement so SmithS was working closely with Dennison in the early 1940's, they were after all only up the road. Dennison also supplied cases to the MOD for what is known as the 'Economy 6B's' around this period, often in 12363's and also supplied pocket and stopwatch cases to SmithS for military contracts, so the working relationship between the Ministry of Supplies and Dennison was well established.

    The watch repairer Owen Gilchrist (Tudor on MWR) has a COSD case that was given to him by his friend Philip Priestley, who wrote a book on the history of the Dennison company and he in turn was given the case by a Dennison family member. As far as I know there is no documentary evidence found (as yet) that Dennison made the COSD case but the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong I think.

  12. #62
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Yes I like that too. Simple but stylish, very functional. With plenty of metal on display too. That crown is going to catch, mind you!

    Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves

  13. #63
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  14. #64
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post


    Eddie
    Oooo I like Very nice.
    Lumed hands would be a bonus, however is it not a bit close to the Longines COSD reissue? (Sans date)
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 27th October 2021 at 10:17.

  15. #65
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    Now that's interesting, and brave considering the relevantly recent Longines re-issue, as Sinnlover says. I think one of the defining characteristics of the original watch is the hand set and it would be great to try and get as close to them as possible with the very distinctive seconds hand and the elongated point tips on the hour and minute hands. Perhaps lower the logo a tad towards the centre too. Will be watching this develop with interest.

    I appreciate that I am probably alone in this but I think I prefer the recased version in the stainless steel Dennison 13322 case, aesthetically it's somehow proportionally better to my eye. Of course that would lose the focus of it's main distinctive point and reason for it's creation for the SOE in the first place, so is nonsense really .

  16. #66
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Love it.
    I would prefer to see blued hands, lume on all hands, longer points on the H and M, a diamond on the head of the seconds and less visible tube inside the crown (I suspect the linked lorologiese example has its crown undone).
    Drilled lugs too please.
    100m WR?
    Otherwise, perfect.

  17. #67
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    .....

    and less visible tube inside the crown (I suspect the linked lorologiese example has its crown undone).
    That is not the case. The crown is meant to look like that.

    But I agree with you about the seconds hand. The original is a fantastic shape and even Longine's homage did not replicate it. Time to see it done.

  18. #68
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    That is not the case. The crown is meant to look like that.
    That is debatable. Most of the examples I have seen on MWR, Pinterest, Classicwatch, Finest hour and elsewhere have a lot less tube showing.
    The Lorogiese example is the exception, rather than the rule.
    There are some examples that have a long concave chamfer to the inner side of the crown, that stands it away from the case, but most have a lot less.
    Look here for reference photos in one place.

  19. #69
    Craftsman williemays's Avatar
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    The modern Longines seems more like a reinterpretation than a reissue. It is 40mm, over 50mm lug end to end, is completely polished, has push-pull crown and date window, and costs $1,700. It is sort of comical really. Eddieís design looks truer to the original reference that he shared above, and probably will be a third of the price.

  20. #70
    Journeyman engrneil's Avatar
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    Agreed, put me down for one
    Quote Originally Posted by williemays View Post
    The modern Longines seems more like a reinterpretation than a reissue. It is 40mm, over 50mm lug end to end, is completely polished, has push-pull crown and date window, and costs $1,700. It is sort of comical really. Eddieís design looks truer to the original reference that he shared above, and probably will be a third of the price.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using TZ-UK mobile app

  21. #71
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    I believe that the crown in the link and in the render is the second iteration of the crown. Original was larger diameter.

  22. #72
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    I am trying to understand the proposed Smiths (COSD?) within the current range. At 36mm and with a white dial, it is directly competing with the Air Ministry, which I feel it to be a superior design AND with the white Navigator which is a better watch.

    I think 36mm is too small for this type of watch.

    Perhaps to consider at 37mm or 38mm with 19mm or 20mm lugs?

  23. #73
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    Thickness isn't mentioned on the early drawing (it looks thinner?), which given the nickname of the original is a feature and gives it some of the character, it would make it of narrower appeal though I would have thought.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Love it.
    I would prefer to see blued hands, lume on all hands, longer points on the H and M, a diamond on the head of the seconds and less visible tube inside the crown (I suspect the linked lorologiese example has its crown undone).
    I think that must be right, found another pic:


  25. #75
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    I think that must be right, found another pic:

    You have to be a bit careful as you are talking about two different crown variations. And as they donít screw down Iím not sure what is meant by ďundoneĒ in the post that you quoted, probably means pulled out to the setting position ? If it was my choice Iíd definitely go with the earlier crown as it just looks way better.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post


    Eddie
    looks great.when is this planned to be released?

  27. #77
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    I know, but Iím going to say it anyway. It really needs an acrylic crystal.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.Ldn View Post
    I know, but Iím going to say it anyway. It really needs an acrylic crystal.
    Yep - definitely!


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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I love the crystal on that. It makes the watch for me. Also agree on the desire for a diamond-tipped second hand as shown here.

  30. #80
    Journeyman fogar's Avatar
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    I don't get the lumed dial paired with skeletonised hands

  31. #81
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fogar View Post
    I don't get the lumed dial paired with skeletonised hands
    +1

    My feeling is that this project was shelved. For now.

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