Reply With QuoteHi Rusty. If the watch has had a hard life could the bezel have been bent out of shape? If so, it may be metal grinding on metal.
Have a watch here with a stuck bezel. Have tried the hot water and turning it thing but to no avail. With a LOT of brute force and gripping it with a wet face cloth you can JUST get it to click round but as it is it’s unusable. Thing is it’s an unusual design so I can’t just pop it off. Anyone here got an idea on how much to sort it, or anyone here able to do this?
Poor watch looks like it’s had a hard life so I would like to get it tarted up if at all possible.
It’s an ocean 2 steinhart and bezel is very flush to case so it’s tricky for a home repair - for me anyway
Hi Rusty. If the watch has had a hard life could the bezel have been bent out of shape? If so, it may be metal grinding on metal.
I think the forces to do that would be too much. It’s got a lot of surface wear marks but no major injuries - suspicion is a removal and clean of the bezel mechanics would sort itOriginally Posted by alfat33
Dental floss. The one with wax. Gently
Here’s what I’d do. Firstly, establish whether the watch is waterproof. If it’s OK I’d immerse it in lukewarm water containing plenty if washing up liquid, and try to get the bezel to turn.If it can be moved, there’s a fair chance of dislodging the dirt. Ideally, the movement should be out of the watch if there’s a question mark over the WR. Sometimes this trick works, but even if it doesn’t it’ll make the bezel easier to remove.......hopefully.
If the water/detergent trick doesn’t help, try applying WD40 or GT 80 lubricant sparingly around the bezel joint. Keep the watch upside down, don’t soak the seals in it, keep it away from the crown or caseback joint. This may be enough to get it moving.
It’s possible that somethings distorted or damaged, in which case its never going to turn easily. I worked on a Fortis a couple of years back, that one had similar problems and I couldn’t work out what was wrong, I gave up with it in thewnd and advised the owner not to attempt to use it. Sometimes that’s the only answer!
Ok - at the risk of sounding daft how do you apply the wd40 sparingly - I have some but it’s just like an aerosol spray so very hard to be precise in application - plus does wd40 have any adverse effects on for example AR coating on crystals? Also it does seem to have no WR issues. Already immersed it, and the bezel does move but with extreme difficulty (took about 5 mins to get it turned one full time with a fair amount of grunting). Bezel design doesn’t help in that it has woeful grip lol
I’ll try that also.
Fit the fine applicator tube to the can and give it a little squirt. Alternatively spray some WD40 in the lid and soak dental floss in it before use.Ok - at the risk of sounding daft how do you apply the wd40 sparingly - I have some but it’s just like an aerosol spray so very hard to be precise in application - plus does wd40 have any adverse effects on for example AR coating on crystals? Also it does seem to have no WR issues. Already immersed it, and the bezel does move but with extreme difficulty (took about 5 mins to get it turned one full time with a fair amount of grunting
I had similar problem with a seized bezel some time back and the WD40 got it moving fine.
Or you could buy one of these...
Cheers,
Neil.
And the winner is..... dental floss soaked in wd40. Well played guys. It’s cured!!! Thanks a lot!
Nice one. Lovely strap by the way.
I’ve noted that tip with the WD40 and the floss.
And the winner is..... dental floss soaked in wd40. Well played guys. It’s cured!!! Thanks a lot!
Top tip!
I have a few watches which, if not used for a while - are stiff to turn at first. Seems to be fairly common.
Well chuffed. Something about a DIY fix that feels so good.
Thanks. I spent a bit of time taping up polished bits on the lugs and removing some surface scratches on its flanks too. The old bird’s starting to look nice again
That’s lovely. I don’t know much about Steinharts so I was expecting something a bit Rolex-looking. Forgive me but is that a homage or an original design? It looks great.Thanks. I spent a bit of time taping up polished bits on the lugs and removing some surface scratches on its flanks too. The old bird’s starting to look nice again
I think in its dna there’s probably a healthy pinch of IWC aquatimer
Remember that WD40 was designed to 'migrate'. So, a (very) little goes a (very) long way. Literally.
Yup - amount used was the amount that could stick to 5 inches of waxed dental floss
WD40 is detrimental for seals. its why its recommended to only ever use silicon grease. It of course depends on the type of rubber in the seals, but without conformation, i wouldnt take the risk.
Glad the OPs had some success.
As the bezel was able to move (just) in water/ detergent I would’ve persevered with that for a while, I’ve done this in the past and been able to see dirt/ crap coming out, which has to be a good thing.
WD 40 is good stuff, but I find GT85, which contains PTFE, is a better lubricant. To apply these things into small spaces I spray some into a small jar then use a plastic dropper to apply.
GT85 is a good penetrating oil, I’ve used it to free off bracelet screws by heating the screw/link then spraying with the oil ( don’t breathe the fumes!). This has a rapid cooling effect which hopefully will break the corrosion by expansion/ contraction, but it also helps the oil penetrate where it’s needed. Soaking the item in penetrating oil and giving repeated doses of ultrasonic also helps.
The same rule applies when freeing anything off, don’t apply too much force and break it!
I used 3 in 1 Silicone lube on my two Steinhart Bezels and it worked a treat as it's quick drying and leaves almost no residue. I just gently squeezed a little into the bezel with the watch facing down and away from the crown. It then took plenty of turns to help it loosen up but it didn't make it too loose either. Not ideal but a good work around.
Last edited by stix; 19th February 2019 at 11:45.
I did persevere under water for a good half hour but it wasn’t loosening at all. The bezel sits so flush to the case on the ocean 2 that anything above a microspeck would struggle to get out. I really used the tiniest amount of wd and tbh I think the dental floss on its own would have been enough. Now it’s moving freely it feels like it’s not a lubrication issue but rather a bit of grit got lodged under a bearing or something. Made sure to do 270 degrees too leaving a safety zone anywhere near the crown for gaskets sake in any event.
The dental floss suggestion is a good one, hadn`t thought of that. I`d be tempted to give it a bit more WD40 to ensure its well lubricated too. If any is running out just wipe it off, it'll be fine.
There are no seals under a bezel, sometimes a gasket which is usually the part that causes the seizure in the first place.
Cheers,
Neil.
First found that method some years back, amazing how well it works.
Cheers,
Neil.
Only got one more job to do on the watch. The crown has a sapphire logo which is glued on. It had been lost somewhere along the watch’s life and the replacement new one arrives in a few days. Is superglue a decent enough solution to affix sapphire to steel or is their a better alternative that jewellers use?
Seems it’s not the crown insert that’s arrived but a full crown. Oh well this should be an interesting job. Off I go
Thanks all - a really useful thread
Well I decided to dive in. Proved simple enough. Job done!
Interesting post. Thanks.
Turned out well Rusty, what's the ref for the watch, I quite fancy one of those.
Let me know when you expect to flip it
n2
Last edited by number2; 23rd February 2019 at 17:06.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
It an ocean 2 - they do 2 versions a basic and a premium now but only in black and white I think. Current is version 2. The watch I have been working on is a version 1 from 6 yrs ago, so used is the only option. Orange and yellow variants were the rarest so you would be doing well to pick one up. I grabbed this one with no bracelet no strap and crown missing and scratched up quite a bit and still had to pay quite a bit. It’s a striking and unique looking piece.Turned out well Rusty, what's the ref for the watch, I quite fancy one of those.
Let me know when you expect to flip it
n2
You've done a man's job, sir!
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
I just tried this trick on my 007 which has an after market coin edge bezel which is really stiff and it made little or no difference on the bezel for me.
The floss did go slightly grey, I also used ptfe spray as well, maybe it needs to soak?
Nicely done
I have those exact same red-handled pliers, part of a 32 part set (or thereabouts) for about £4.99. They haven’t let me down yet!
The very same. For basic tools and not getting used much they have paid for themselves many times overNicely done
I have those exact same red-handled pliers, part of a 32 part set (or thereabouts) for about £4.99. They haven’t let me down yet!
Interesting fix! Must try the same on a siezed SMP bezel. It has barely been turned in 8 years and now wont budge at all.
Great job fixing it up!
Super glue is probably what the little bezel pip was affixed with originally anyway
Glad that’s turned out well, there are a few ways this relatively strightfrward job can go badly.
First banana skin is removing the stem,with an ETA 2824 I always do this with the keyless work set to handset. It’s esssential to avoid depressing the setting lever too far, the trick is to use the black screwdriver blade which is a nice fit in the slot.
Second potential problem is getting the old crown off the stem. I always heat the stem at the point it wnters the crown, that’ll soften any loctite that may have been used. It’s all too easy to snap a tap 9 stem if too much force is used. It’s also important to grip the stem in the right spot, I use brass- faced pliers and grip on the thread, never on the square section.
Third problem, with a new crown, is finding that the stem is fractionally too long or too short. A good trick is to measure the total length (stem and crown) prior to dismantling, after fitting the replacement this should be the same. If it differs significantly there could be problems. Trial fit the stem/crown before loctiting the crown in place, taking care not to misalign the keyless work. It’s all too easy to do on these movements, and if it happens it’ll spoil your day. Assuming the stem goes back in nicely, check the length / operation. If the stem is marginally too long it can be trimmed shorter, if it’s fractionally too short I would cut a tiny fragment off a thin brass rod and drop it down the crown to act as a packing piece, this will correct an error of around 0.1mm but anything more will need a new stem or stem extender. I always use loctite when fitting a crown to a stem, I’ve never had one come loose doing it this way.
The biggest headache with this job is the risk of the keyless work getting misaligned. The crown/ stem must be fitted gently with the setting lever depressed. Slight twisting action may be needed, but never use force. The yoke can jump out if its slot in the sliding pinion and if that happens the stem won’t go in. There are two ways to fix this, one involves taking the dial and the other involves taking the barrel bridge off and tweaking the parts back into place. This hapens to the best of us, it happened to me last week on an old ETA 2470 and it took a lot if stripping down to correct it......in hindsight I should’ve had the crown set in the winding position because the design differs substantially from later ETAs.
I’ll be honest, if I didn’t have the capability to partially strip the movement I wouldn’t attempt a job like this. The risk of getting the keyless work misaligned is very real, it’s a trait with some movements and you have to be able to work your way out of trouble if it happens. It never happens with some movements but ETAs are prone to it. Worst I ‘ve come across is the Omega 1481/Tissot 2461, lift the setting kever fractionally too far when removing or fitting the crown and it’ll happen.
Good advice. With crown at popped out position one I applied (VERY) gentle pressure on the lever while holding the crown. As soon as sufficient pressure was made it became obvious as the crown and stem came away instantly. Removing the old crown from the stem was a challenge - I didn’t have one of those pin grip vices so had to be pliers. Didn’t want to damage the stem so I wrapped some kitchen roll round the stem before gripping, then unscrewed the crown with a swift start which broke the Loctite seal.
Once the new crown was attached to the stem, I pressed it home gently - there was one gentle “click” but it didn’t look “fully home”. Rotating it about 30deg saw it slide home with a positive sound. I checked winding, date change, hacking and time setting before screwing it down and repeating a couple of times before popping the case back on. I’m sure things could have gone wrong but am very satisfied at managing to do it myself.
Last edited by RustyBin5; 23rd February 2019 at 21:27.
Good job, Rusty - a satisfying thread to read, and no doubt a more satisfying refurbishment to complete. Kudos to all contributors also, especially Paul - some helpful info to store away for future use.
One small contribution I would make is that (as stated already in the thread), oftentimes its the o-ring inside the bezel that dries and causes friction & a stiff bezel. After trying all sorts with the notoriously stiff Gen1 Orient Mako bezel (hot water + detergent; bending the click prongs; graphite powder etc.) what finally sorted it was removing the o-ring and lubing it with some silicon grease (which has the added benefit of not being a dispersant or attracting detrititus quite so much), and it's moved nicely ever since.
A useful lubricant where rubber parts are involved is silicone fluid, smearing parts in silicone fluid then wiping off the excess leaves them with a very fine coating that won't attract dirt in the same way a grease will. Owning a classic car helps here, I`m a staunch fan of silicone brake fluid in old cars so I`ve got plenty kicking around the garage.
One technique I`d advise against when removing crowns is to grip the stem in a pin vice on the square section. It's a convenient way to hold it, but unless the crown's fairly loose it's also a good way to snap the stem if it's a tap 9 (most are). Thin steel pliers gripping on the exposed threaded section is OK, but you run the risk of burring those threads. That's not a problem if the stem's OK to reuse, but if the length is wrong and a stem extender is needed, you'll need that section of thread that you've just chewed with the pliers!
I can empathise with anyone trying to learn and do things themselves, that's how I started. My (limited) BHS training only covered movement work and dial/hands removal, everything else has been self-taught and I freely admit to learning the hard way sometimes.
The dilemma for anyone trying to do things themselves is tools/equipment. You can improvise up to a point, and get by with what tools fall to hand, but you soon get to a stage where the right tools are needed. It's the scale/size of watches that poses the problem, everything's so bloody small. If you only plan to do a job once it's hard to justify spending on tools, but without tools you can't do the job!
One aspect I always emphasise is magnifiers. You cannot do this work without, even handling relatively large parts such as crowns and stems requires magnification if you're to avoid problems. Light, plus a decent work surface are other prerequisites that folks neglect. When I read about parts being lost I can visualise folks messing around in the same manner I did when first starting. I used to work on an old Bakelite kitchen tray to avoid loss of parts, having small trays to keep parts in is another top tip. My rule is simple: a part is either in the watch, or contained in a small tray, it is NEVER left on the bench. If fitting a few parts together I put them in a small tray (nicknamed 'the departure the lounge') and they stay there till fitted.
If a small screw ends up on the floor, a magnet and a methodical way of working back and forth can usually find it. I`ve also had success with a handkerchief over the end of a vacuum cleaner hose.............trust me it works, but it's better to avoid dropping stuff.
On that note I'll close with my catchphrases: It's not rocket science....and I don`t make this stuff up
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