Reply With QuoteI enjoyed that, thanks.
R
that there ís a susbstitute for cubic inches; lightness.
The Mustangs have as many hpīs as the Minis weigh in kgīs.
The Minis were faster in qualifying.
That the Mustang won is because it made such an effective road block on de racing line of the Mini through the corners.
Enjoy:
https://youtu.be/nS4MIfA5i64
p.s. impressively respectful racing!!
p.p.s. what more can I unbolt from my car??
I enjoyed that, thanks.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Good link - thanks Petrus
Apart from good racing, it is like a slapstick.Originally Posted by ralphy
Have you noticed the air scoops under the Mustang bumper to cool the brakes?
All that muscle loading the mass with kinetic energy needs to be changed into heat upon braking. That is the main thing I remember from the two Detroit muscle ships I owned; that you could brake into a series of corners HARD twice.
P.s. wheels, it will have to be lightweight wheels. Lighter seats cost nearly as much, save less and less effective too.
Shame I cannot bolt on lighter 4-pot calipers; the periodic inspection is not amused with that.
I am a fully paid up member of Colin Chapmans philosophy of adding lightness.
I have had the pleasure of driving and owning some pretty decent cars over the years; whether it is rose tinted spec's or not I still maintain the best car I have ever driven is a S1 Elise. Only the K Series 118bhp standard model, but in a car weighing around 740kg it was sublime. The feel, responsiveness and ability to change direction or haul off speed was simply stunning, not to mention be handily fast; but only nippy and not supercar worrying. But it was a track weapon. I have just recently flogged by Z4 with 228bhp and around 1400kg and bought a current MX5 2.0 with 160bhp but weighing around 1040kg. Thus the power to weight is very similar but again the feel and responsiveness of the MX5 knocks spots off the lardy Z4.
Funnily enough each of the three cars above were all around the 160 bhp/tonne mark but could not feel more different, the factor for enjoyment for me is very much about how little weight there is.
As an aside my first car was a British Leyland Mini 998, it probably had 40bhp if I was luck but weighing only 700kg was great fun at some pretty low speeds.
The chassis? Dont let anyone tell you its essential.
😉
So clever my foot fell off.
Ha, I remember that from a while ago, it's a good film.
I remember a cracking race at the Silverstone Classic in what must have been 1995 or 1996 involving some Minis and Mk2 Jaguars, very much the same thing of Jaguars in the lead until they arrived at Brooklands/Luffield.
"A man of little significance"
The power/weight ratio only tells you something about the accelleration potential.
The weíght tells you a far more complete story.
Colin Chapman and wáy before him Ettore Bugatti understood and exploited this.
Being forrinner I quote ACBC in Brit company but thínk of EB :-)
We can unite though in the principle and bash the yanks.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 18th February 2019 at 15:30.
These are race cars not sports cars, but! When men were men
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cawBXWWgqCI
The plot being; 5.7 litres Camaro roadblock pestered by stingy Escorts.
Race cars and Sports Cars have no relationship, it is either a race car or a road car, it is mainly to do with marketing, a race car would be useless on the road and vice versa.
Last edited by adrianw; 18th February 2019 at 16:44.
Ah, thanks; that changes the īlawsī of Bugatti and ACBC ofcourse...
I dont understand that
If you really want to see US V8 being humbled then all you need to do is check out Abarth's US campaigns during the 60's.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I live a few hundred yards from the park where that race took place, there is still some Armco left there but if you didn’t know already there is little to suggest cars were doing 100mph round there.
They actually filmed some of the Hunt/Lauda film ‘Hunt’ in the park but mostly pit lane scenes.
Last edited by MrSmith; 18th February 2019 at 22:30.
Have embarrassed many a "sports car" in my little 125 BHP Caterham 7.
You can't defy physics at the end of the day.
Sent from my SM-J530F using TZ-UK mobile app
Thanks for the suggestion but no; the īobjectī was merely to point to the laws of physics all too often overlooked or misdirected from by the marketing of īsportsī.
The Abarth US campaign points to both issues; to the laws of physics ruling ánd to the might of marketing; it had no effect on Detroit sales in the US.
I thought chassis dynamics were all about unsprung weight, roll centres and suspension frequency, not the headline weight figure.
I currently have three cars
720kg 260 bhp
1050kg. 600 bhp
1600kg 510 bhp
The second two are called Sports Cars, the first one was built for sprinting Which one do you think produces the fastest lap times at Llandow with the same driver?
It is all about the laws of physics and those interact.
There is more involved such as the desígn of the suspension and the quality of the parts to name but two.
Ceterus paribus though, weight is all.
As to lap times on tracks, ahhhh, another set of parameters; number/complexity of corners, number/length of straights, even height differences and the sort/condition of surface. Hence even in F1 different cars go better/worse on different tracks.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 19th February 2019 at 10:58.
Quality of suspension parts has more to do with longevity, not performance.
I have already mentioned the elements that take priority over outright weight, however the number one priority is tyres, the best set up car on the wrong tyres will fail, every tyre has a target operating temperature or window, all of the other elements are to achieve this, on road or track.
Well, if you think so; I beg to differ.
Tyres too are important and again, cannot be staken on their own. Weight per example is a key factor in how much load there is on the tyre, which affects temp.I have already mentioned the elements that take priority over outright weight, however the number one priority is tyres, the best set up car on the wrong tyres will fail, every tyre has a target operating temperature or window, all of the other elements are to achieve this, on road or track.
Again; many factors are involved and weight is a heavy weighing one.
Fastest car Ive ever owned..
1125kgs..... fitted with a Chevy LS3, 450 BHP and 450 ft/lbs of torque. 6 speed box with rifle bolt change.
No abs, no TC no airbags.. I took it to Santa Pod and it did 0-120mph in 12 seconds without even trying. I never found out the top speed..
On the German autobahn it absolutely destroyed a Bentley GT in a roll on acceleration run...
Great fun but hard work and required full attention to stay safe..
Fabulous. When I had a 5.0 Griff 10 years ago I followed some of these LS3 conversions online and through the Club. Looked amazing and sounds like you had a lot of fun with yours.
I tracked mine a few times. At Brands Hatch I had a huge amount of fun, overtook some other cars but the Elises on their Toyos breezed past me in the long corners.
.....I say but so I say but nothing ;-)
Absolutely crázy cars btw. Must be a hoot to drive... wearing diapers :-) Só much torque and so little weight.
CC's development of the Lotus 7 paved the way for the entire kit car industry for which I give my grateful thanks. When it comes to overall performance kit cars reign supreme IMO, the lack of weight allowing the performance to render the engines power to be secondary. For smiles-per-hour nothing else comes close.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
In the wet, just a prod of the throttle would light up the rear tyres in 4th gear at will...great fun, but a bit of a handful..
Whoa!! Just the thought makes me smile.
I would not be able to drive that anymore nowadays. My eyesight is still 20/20 as are my reaction times, but my brain no longer reliably has that reflex-mode responding to what you see/feel before you īgetī the signal. Maybe it is the increased sense of responsibily that took me by surprise when mountain love got pregnant. Or the result of having stopped racing then.
Bottom line is I know that nowadays my balls are bigger than my skills so I need let my common sense set the limits of the car = difting fun at lower power/speed.
Right; the car. Need to get the rear bumper shroud back on.
Wow, just watched that, took me back, used to live in East Dulwich and walked up to Crystal Palace to watch the racing a few times, can't remember the year but Jochen Rindt won the formula two race. I seem to remember that Jim Clark won the saloon car race in a Lotus Cortina but I could be wrong on that as a great big Ford falcon was also racing. Where did the footage come from, I'd love to see other bits from Crystal Palace. Also went by bus to Brands Hatch to see Dan Gurney win the race of Champions in 1966 (I think!) Adrian, thanks for the link. Cheers, John B4
For those that love the V8
Lóved the pothole grunt ;-)
No seriously; that is ADDICTIVE!!!!
Can imagine it being a bit tiring too on longer drives.
Been busy swapping the OEM for a DIY muffler on my japanese 4 pot engine today and though I want to hear a bit more, too much of a good thing is all too easy.
I’m sure I have posted this before, it was ten years ago, we have developed the car a bit since then
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZwA-KblalQ
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...car-real-world
This one was fun
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kB39z2QAL8Y
Last edited by adrianw; 19th February 2019 at 22:59.
That was my mate in the passenger seat...
This was the previous one with the self built Rover V8 5.0... i put a high lift cam in and it had a cross bolted block....flowed heads big valves etc etc
Last edited by Enoch; 19th February 2019 at 22:52.
Watching the video in the OP took me back to my childhood when my Dad would take me to the spring VSCC meeting at Silverstone. One of my favourite cars was the Napier Bentley. A big old Bentley chassis with a 24l Napier Lion W12 engine strapped to it. The way the handicap race worked it was always up against three wheeler Morgans with 1l V-twins. They would come through Woodcote side by side and then the Bentley would disappear up the start finish. Next lap the Morgan would have caught up again. Loved the noise and the smell.
Tapatapatapatapatalk
a whole lot lighter lump up front that one!
Must have been satisfactory to the power of itself; hats off!
There is a theme in this thread :-)
The Morgan threewheeler is one vehicle I never drove and regret never having owned. I had a passion for driving lightweight sidecars for yéars and the Morgan is the īsameī but a dimension better.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 19th February 2019 at 23:27.
They still make them!
and I lóve them.
My sidecar drifting days are long since over though. Also at the current prices I would still have a sidecar despite that, nah I would have a Garbi; a Spanish built súperlight Lotus 7 derivate with motorcycle engine. Looked at one actually but there is no way I could possibly get even only óne of my three ladies along for a ride in that, so MR2 it was. Mind you, all three were game for a test ride in the bucket of a Dnepr 2x3!!! (there is a dealer in Málaga selling those new) so go figure.
Only three concubines? Moulay Ismail, Alaouite sultan of Morocco from 1672 to 1727, is reported to have had over 500. Buck up, Huerty!
They did not have mobile phones; no way he kept up with their whatsap....
This thread makes me wonder why I sold my TVR Vixen. A 1969 fibreglass body and chassis with a 2.3 litre cosworth engine putting out 230bhp for around 650kg.
I sold it due to a sense of self-preservation.
Yesterday I had a test wheel/tyre combo fitted to my Healey to check some taller tyres (Michelin XAS) will fit in the wheel arches (all Healeys are slightly different, all handbuilt). They do, and I checked out my new alloy Dunlop wheels, it's going to transform the handling (already on uprated dampers and with a fast/racing steering rack). The wheels, tyres and some new EBC brakes will hopefully be on the car on Friday.
Also on the go at the moment is a new Torsen LSD for the MX-5 which goes on next week at the same time as a competition clutch. There's a slight gearbox/oil leak and since it all has to come out for seals to be replaced I thought I may as well do clutch and LSD at the same time! Hopefully it's going to transform the MX handling and these two upgrades will make the eventual turbo conversion work.
"A man of little significance"
I totally get that.
...but the weígth; 650 kilos, that must have been a toy to, sorry joy to drive. There is no way; laws of physics, that heavier responds as quickly, directly. I took the power steering pump out of my MR2 and it suddenly feels the 1000 kilos it ís. Before it appéared lighter but that was remote control fake with no feel to it. I have the same directness with the same feel with the lightness in my rally DAF. Only 65 hp but that is only the performance side.
@Foxy; the LSD will be a marked difference. The turbo, well you know what I think about that; Iīd rather spend that outlay on adding lightness; on Volk CE28s per example.
Sorry to go OT but reading this has spurred my into giving Audrey a good clean and taking the hardtop off in the hope of more sunny days like yesterday. Just thought that I would share that with you
A great follow up on the theme :-)
Thanks for sharing.
Hope you can enjoy her today.
Let me go a bit sideways too then;
Last edited by Huertecilla; 20th February 2019 at 10:50.
I already have lighter whees. (Edit: and lighter 'wheels' too!). Not the lightest but still better than standard.
On top of which I take the passenger seat out (20kg!) when I don't need it, I'm thinking of taking the car to Le Mans this year, the extra space in the passenger side will accommodate all my camping stuff (plus the boot!).
I did have the car sans roof for a while, that's another 20kg from high up in the car but no one seems to make full tonneau covers for the Mk1. It's also a bit of a PITA to take out and put back in again. If I had a garage for the car I'd probably strip it out properly (before fitting the carpets again, just without sound deadening material and insulation) and use a hard top/full tonneau depending on weather. Sadly, no garage. Plus I never bother with the Healey roof so if the weather's good enough for no roof and I don't need to leave the car overnight anywhere I'd probably take the Healey anyway, so the soft top stays on the MX and I put up with the weight.
"A man of little significance"
The hardtop for my MX is a substantial weight and after removing it and a really heavy holdall containing various tools, oil etc from the boot (I now have a shed to store it in) the car feels more sprightly.
I guess that it may be psychological though.
I had a hard top but sold it because I wasn't using it. What I mean is if I had a garage I'd be able to unbolt and remove the soft top completely, meaning I could only use the car on sunny days with nothing on it (or a full tonneau cover like I have for my Healey) or on wet days with the hard top on. Since I have to keep the car outside (and I can't be bothered taking off, storing and putting back on a hard top whenever it's a nice day) I'm going to stick with the 20kg penalty that's the soft top. If anything changes I'll definitely be looking at removing the roof, lightening the car further and going down the tonneau/hard top route but for now, with the Healey already the car with no roof that I use for day stuff (or only overnight if there's somewhere off road and secure to keep it), the MX will keep its practical soft top (and get a turbo instead). The MX is a Mk1 1.8 running 140bhp at the fly, I had a plug-and-play ECU fitted (it was running 106bhp before I had it fitted, so a 34bhp increase, or 10bhp over what it would have left the factory with).
I may well find that with the LSD sorted I will enjoy all that 140bhp more but I still want the turbo (240bhp).
"A man of little significance"
I misread your post slightly. The hard top weighs about 25kg and is high up on the car, above the centre of gravity. By removing it you're chopping 25kg from one of the worst places on the car to have it. Were you to remove your soft top too, and take out the passenger seat (it takes about five minutes to take out or put back in and gives you a surprisingly good load bay in the right place in the car - between the two axles), along with taking out the oil and tools, it's about the same as having an adult male passenger in your car. Just 25kg from the top of your car is going to make a very noticeable difference so no, not psychological!
I removed the spare wheel from my car too, although it goes back in for long distances.
"A man of little significance"
Obviously, I donīt know about your psyche ;-) but when you start with for calculation sake say 1000 kilos, every 10 kg. is one % and unlike extra oomph you will notice, feel it in éverything. So shedding 50 kg. is 5% off the car is 5% quicker, - steering lighter, - more responsive, - braking better.
Put it in another way; get yourself a 50 kg. bag of horse feed and try slalom with it from one side to the other :-)
Yes, without you are more sprightly indeed ;-)
Quite; the where is important, definitely.
I deleted 10 kg from behind/above the rear wheels. Only 10 kg. = 1 % so quite marginal but it ís noticeable because of the whére. Same thing 1 kg. lighter wheels. Only 4 kilos so 0.4% but ...
Still very curious though about how/why Enkei claim, in print!, it is 20 times the same weight off the car.
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