Reply With QuoteI would say you biggest problem is you are competing in some way with IKEA. They will sell legs for £30 and have a huge selection. Add a kitchen top and you have a decent looking desk which is ver customisable for £130.
Heres mine:
Evening all,
Thought I might pick some of your brains for a little input on an idea I have for a product as a part of my furniture making business.
Essentially, people love having furniture made for them, but for some people that stops when they hear how expensive it can be.
All the labour that goes into taking a rough slab of a tree to a fully finished piece really can rack up a hefty cost.
So I've come up with this idea of potentially making a range of furniture from Birch plywood. For those who arn't familiar, Birch plywood is a furniture grade plywood that is characterised by it's multiply structure that looks very visually pleasing on the end grain.
Now Birch plywood isn't cheap, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the labour that goes into making hardwood ready to become furniture.
My first design is an adaptation of a desk I've made a few times in maple. It is a design that actually is quite modular, utliising double lam 18mm Birch to make trestle sections that can be added and added to make a large or a small desk.
The idea is to have it able to break down into sections (as illustrated) then be able to be flat packed and shipped.
For me this would bring the cost right down, to where you'd be looking at around £400 for a simple 1200x600 (4ft x 2ft) desk.
My question to all of you is, do you think this would be something that would interest the more discerning home or business owner?
Essentially most of my work is made up with large commercial jobs (studio, office & shop fit outs) so that's where the bulk of my work is, I just want to get into more people's homes!
Thanks for any thoughts
Elliott
(the maple desk I've made a few times in the past)
I would say you biggest problem is you are competing in some way with IKEA. They will sell legs for £30 and have a huge selection. Add a kitchen top and you have a decent looking desk which is ver customisable for £130.
Heres mine:
I totally appreciate what you're aiming for and I do raise my hat to you however I think at 400 sovs, it may be prove to be at quite the "high" end of the pocket/market and has been pointed out above, competition is very strong from the seller mentioned.
This is just my personal opinion though.
I think it is a good idea worth pursuing, but IMO there isn’t much to that desk for £400. As others have said, something similar can be bought or put together for a lot less.
Sorry to wee on your chips but I don't think I'd pay £400 for a flat pack desk.
I appreciate it's a decent wood but if I was going down that road, and I did, it'd be IKEA for a lot less.
It’s something that interests me.
Have been looking at Tylco. Love the customisation but think they must have a massive mark up. Quality looks much better than anything ikea make but I wish there was something available in between.
Edit:
I would pay £400 for that desk if I could see there was a quality of materials and construction (can’t tell from pics)
But that’s because I have an aversion to stuff that doesn’t last so would rather pay more for something that will not fall apart.
Last edited by MrSmith; 17th February 2019 at 20:56.
Don't mind a bit of wee on my chips but just to clarify this isn't comparable to Ikea furniture, it would be made and finished in just the same way I'd make any of my other hardwood furniture but knocking down with threaded bolts or coach screws for ease of transport. Ikea furniture doesn't tend to last more than a couple house moves, this would be built to last a lifetime just like my other stuff is.
I appreciate £400 is a lot for something that seems mass produced but the materials alone on something like this costs in excess of £100.
Maybe it's not something that would work then as all your points are totally valid, it was more of an idea to get quality furniture into people's houses again - stuff that lasts.
Do see your guys points of view!
I think the theory is good. I was in the market for a desk a year ago and the price is competitive with something found in JL.
I’ve found ikea do different ranges of furniture. You can get the cheapest which is basically corrugated cardboard up to more expensive. I bought some Svalnas shelves for my sons room and you don’t get that much material for £500.
If it was cost effective in maple that would be great as that would really differentiate you from Ikea and JL etc How much would that be?
Sorry ej but people's opinions on a forum ain't worth a jot. I suspect you already know the answer - make up a small number and float it on the internet
On a computer now so can elaborate slightly on my wish to urinate on your potato products:
First off, I'll say I might not be your target audience. I have kitted out most of my house with IKEA stuff. As you say, hardly heirloom quality, but decent enough and cheap. Also, when the wife inevitably wants to change colour schemes / styles it's not going to break the bank.
The trouble as I see it, is that IKEA isn't really seen as a cheap option. They have a certain cool about the brand that puts 'higher end' buyers comfortably in their customer base. Add to that the current love for Scandinavian simplicity and I think they are in a sweet spot in terms of desirability and value. The Volvo of furniture - not too dear but almost spanning all classes.
Where I could see a gap in the market, would be for custom flat pack. We had a French dresser made from a guy in Wales we found on eBay. You could pick the width, design, door furniture and colour and they made it. In his case, it was delivered and fitted by them but if you were to offer the same level of customisation and sell it as flat pack, that might appeal?
The other thing to ask yourself, is why flat pack? The whole point originally is that people could go to a warehouse and pick up their own desk / bookcase / TV unit and it would fit into their car. Are you selling from a site? If not, surely the discount given for it being flat packed would far outweigh the increased shipping cost over selling a fully assembled product?
Hope that's justified the wee / chip situation.
Not a fan of market research then?!Originally Posted by Suds
Those shelves are bamboo veneer i expect they will look tired very quickly.
Most people get the legs from IKEA. In most cases these are fairly good quality.
You can then pick up some solid wood tops for around £100. Usually kitchen worktops etc.
I would YouTube IKEA desk hacks. It's not all mdf desks.
The only market research worth its money are with people who will make an actual purchase within the next X months - I might love the idea and fully support it but if I won't be in the market to make a purchase for 5-10 years my opinion doesn't help build a business.
I see your point. However, wouldn't it be useful to garner opinion from those in a similar demographic to your intended market?
That's not argumentative, I'm not an expert on market research by any stretch so am curious.
I like high quality birch ply furniture. It looks clean, simple, functional, Scandinavian. So for high quality materials and workmanship, I wouldn’t balk at £400 having spent £1,000 on an Ercol desk.
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I’m after a new fitted wardrobe for my son’s bedroom, and was keen to support a local business and have one made to measure rather than going with something flat pack like Ikea. Keen that is until I started to get some quotes... between 6 and 8k for a 1.5metre wide wardrobe!
There is a market for furniture that is a step above your bog standard flat pack, if you get the price right and maybe also offer some customisable options so that people feel they are getting something made just for them.
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Appreciate your thoughts Dave and I totally get where you're coming from.
The idea of customization is good, to give it parameters that make it more affordable - which kind of sits between basic items and the fully bespoke service I currently offer.
That's a good point with Ikea, if you want to fill your whole house with it, it can definitely add up depending on how big your house is!
- - - Updated - - -
Wow!
That's London prices for you!
I did a 3.6m recently with full sliding doors for £4k iirc.
Did you miss my point. Yes I agree, hence why OPs furniture looks better value than even the high end Ikea stuff.
If he could make it in maple it would be very attractive.
My sons six so it’ll be destroyed long before it wears out!
Sure, I didn't take your comment any other way Dave, apologies if I sounded somewhat terse but business is 'cold hard cash'. People will support quality as a concept but in practise a prospective purchaser may decide ' birch doesn't really go with my taste/colour scheme, can you supply teak/mahogany/pine/yew stains' for example, or may finally decide a drawer would be really useful. The odd prospect might even think 'I need a matching chair'..... EJ will never know for sure until he floats his product on the market
Last edited by Suds; 17th February 2019 at 22:17.
Hey bud,
If memory serves I made these with a solid maple base and a maple veneer top, think in the end it came to around £1000.
Birch ply is an excellent option for furniture as you get that brilliant strength and stability that comes with using plywood along with a BB grade veneer face and a lovely pale tone.
Take a look at:https://www.untothislast.co.uk
These guys specialise in higher end furniture predominately from ply.
I think the idea has some legs. You may want to partner with someone like Made.com, and even look in to creative ways you can push costs down even further.
I think there is always a market for quality.
First, you need to come up with a brand name - and find a way of marking this into the furniture so it can be easily seen and identified without being absurdly intrusive. You might want to consider signing it, and issuing it with a certificate of authenticity.
Next, don’t price it too cheap. Ikea or Argos aren’t your competitors here.
Then get it reviewed in a few key higher end home and interior design magazines or websites.
Find one or two quality established retailers and give them a sample and a good no risk deal. Their credibility is what you want.
I like the customisation idea - but don’t have too many options.
Have a simple high-quality website with excellent photography produced. Talk about the quality of the wood, where it is sourced from, sustainability etc.
Offer a few other simple complimentary products - eg a desk tidy, pen pot, chair, waste paper basket, monitor shelf, matching shelves or bookcase etc.
Just a few quick suggestions over breakfast!
Last edited by TheFlyingBanana; 18th February 2019 at 09:43.
Really appreciate your input - lots of food for thought!
The reality of life is that volume brings the price down more than anything else.
Making something in a small workshop, even flat pack is going to be expensive compared to a similar product that is made on a fast moving production line by a large company who can produce in volume and spread their overheads .
Small manufacturing companies can only complete at the upper end of the market.
The last bit of furniture I bought was a made to order shelf for my collection of LPs. It was made to my dimensions, in the wood and style of my choosing and the price included delivery to my house and taken up the stairs to be placed in situ.
It was expensive but I did not even haggle on the price, I wanted a no compromise quality product and you have to have it made bespoke by a craftsman who isn't being forced to cut corners on price. This is where small companies excel.
If you go down the route of selling via someone else's shop or website, then the price will double as they all work on a 40-60% margin.
Will the £400 trade priced tables still sell at around £800 retail?
but they will no longer be bespoke and manufacture will de done in volume in China. thats how Made.com work. not been impressed by anything i have seen by them. i know an office space that was fitted out by Made as a way of cutting costs and it was redone a year later with more durable (expensive) items.
Going with the idea of semi-bespoke Heals are offering a dining table that caught me eye recently that has a couple of different options for length, width, edge-profile, leg style, etc: https://www.heals.com/collections/de...ou-tables.html
For your desk, a couple of different depth end sections, and a couple of width options (maybe also stains or paint options?) would offer something pretty bespoke.
Lots of very helpful views here,
I appreciate it!
What I'm taking is that custom input on size and material is important, which I can accommodate relatively easily,
What I may need to do is make a few in differening sizes then i could potentially put a slider on a website listing for changing the dimensions,
I think what I've been most poor with is photographing my work - you often want to get it into the customers hands as quick as possible so photos tend to be missed! I calculated I made 26 pieces of furniture last year and only got decent pictures of 2!
Hi, I am not an expert in these things however just a couple of observations.
1) the key to selling a product like this is how you market it, and who you want to market it to. You are not competing with Ikea, etc because you will lose on price. Hence you need to target wealthier clients with more decerning tastes. Hence I would suggest you target interior designers and those who buy Fallow and Ball paints rather than Crown.
2) for that sort of market, clients will often want bespoke. Something that they can specify themselves, which could include colours, finishes, the shape of the desk top (something more organic and rounded, rather than rectangle) different metal work/handles, etc. The more variations on a theme the better. You could also include things like cable tidy's, power option, even USB ports and additional options.
Personally I love the concept especially as it could become a platform for other products including side tables, lamp stands, even side boards.
Best of luck.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Suggest you read my earlier post Andy.
So clever my foot fell off.
Just one more thought (apologises if it been mentioned already).
but have you considered entering the Funiture Design Awards.
And finally just to make a clear distinction between your designs and those products from say IKEA you can add
Designed and Made the in U.K.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Found the website I was thinking of when I saw this thread https://www.designbytimber.co.uk/workshop/ this kind of thing that is fairly simple and looks good.
I can only echo what others have said, there is a growing realisation that good furniture is worth the investment, just look at how much an old scandi desk goes for.
Just echo what I’ve said before, I really like birch play furniture. Have a custom built wall mounted shelf unit, a small shelf unit in the hall from Isokon+ who make the famous Penguin Donkey book cases and a desk which is just a sheet of furniture grade birch ply with four Ikea legs screwed on. I like the OP’s idea.
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I've just come across https://grain.co.uk/ via facebook ad, it's a similar concept that shows there is a possible market for this type of furniture.
This video from Gosforth Handyman may be of interest: IKEA vs. Joiner https://youtu.be/495GbxeiUqU
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