The purchase of a new SS Rolex Sports Model is, in my opinion, at an all time low. There are virtually no new sports models in any AD in the country and the AD's are happy to pass on all their incoming stock to "preferred" customers who hoover them up and pass them into the grey market at vast profits.
As can be seen from the new Rolex sales on SC, guys get offered list watches that they neither want or can necessarily afford and then sell them on to retain their preferred customer status and the cycle continues. No wonder ordinary folks can't purchase a new Sports model for themselves.
Rolex need to stop the practice of only selling to preferred customers and indirectly feeding the grey market, how many new Rolex can one guy buy?
When I bought my first GMT in 1981 I remember multiple Daytonas in the window of the shop for months and the salesman trying to get me to take one instead of the GMT, for a few hundred quid more - hindsight, a wonderful thing!
Anyway, rant over and I still believe most folks are decent enough not to rip profit from others. Besides, it's only what Porsche have been doing for years; I tried to pre-order a 911R and was almost laughed out of the dealership as I was not a preferred customer!!!
I feel your pain. I’m on the list for a ceramic date sub. Just the basic £6600 version. No idea when I will get it. Maybe next week. Maybe in 18 months.
Was offered one from a mate a few days ago. £7300. I declined. As I thought my new one may then arrive the same week.
Plus. Not keen on paying +£700 for the same thing.
The secret is to not want anything too bad.
If it happens it happens. It’s only a watch at the end of the day.
Last edited by Metalic Mud; 10th February 2019 at 08:02.
It's not just Porsche and Rolex that have lists, Morgan, Aston Martin, Ferrari, etc, all have lists and have done since Noah was looking for the second unicorn.
My advice is to get an Open Return ticket to Schiphol and park your bum outside of Gassan's and await their next delivery (Wednesday/Thursdays are favourite, but not guaranteed).
You should only have to wait a couple of weeks, but might be able to snag Sub/GMT.
With great effort comes great rewards.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
lolOriginally Posted by ANDYB151
Thanks for the replies, but I don't need a new watch that bad. However, the preferred customer practice is something that needs sorting out. The bubble may well burst and things may return to normal.It's not just Porsche and Rolex that have lists, Morgan, Aston Martin, Ferrari, etc, all have lists and have done since Noah was looking for the second unicorn.
My advice is to get an Open Return ticket to Schiphol and park your bum outside of Gassan's and await their next delivery (Wednesday/Thursdays are favourite, but not guaranteed).
You should only have to wait a couple of weeks, but might be able to snag Sub/GMT.
With great effort comes great rewards.
I'm convinced that anyone who cries about buying Rolex' on the internet simply shouldn't be capable of accruing the financial means of purchasing one in the first place. Sorry OP!
I cannot fathom how someone should find themselves in the enviable position of being able to blow half a year's minimum wage on a piece of jewellery and not have the wherewithal to engage the services of a shop in order to get hold of what they want.
Can you get a Submariner new at list just by walking into a shop at the moment? No. Can you get one within weeks? Yes. Is it really that hard? No.
How about looking at it another way? The charade you despise so much is actually securing your financial outlay for years by the fact that unlike pretty much any other luxury item (and an outdated piece of machinery masquerading as jewellery "worth" thousands is a big bloomin' luxury) bar a select few by not losing any money.
"Oh but I just want to buy and enjoy wearing a nice watch for years to come and not consider resale value" I hear you cry!
Well, bully for you. Go and buy an infinitely more stylish pre ceramic model second hand with a recent service and laugh at all those on waiting lists.
(all said with only a little tongue in cheek!)
[QUOTE=Andyg;5019860]It's not just Porsche and Rolex that have lists, Morgan, Aston Martin, Ferrari, etc, all have lists and have done since Noah was looking for the second unicorn.
My advice is to get an Open Return ticket to Schiphol and park your bum outside of Gassan's and await their next delivery (Wednesday/Thursdays are favourite, but not guaranteed).
You should only have to wait a couple of weeks, but might be able to snag Sub/GMT.
With great effort comes great rewards.
He felt it wasn't for him and bought a Speedy Pro at the Omega boutique next door...... Gah!!!!
[QUOTE=ryanb741;5019929]Clearly someone buying a watch because they like it, rather than buying a watch to make a fast buck, or to be seen as "on trend".It's not just Porsche and Rolex that have lists, Morgan, Aston Martin, Ferrari, etc, all have lists and have done since Noah was looking for the second unicorn.
My advice is to get an Open Return ticket to Schiphol and park your bum outside of Gassan's and await their next delivery (Wednesday/Thursdays are favourite, but not guaranteed).
You should only have to wait a couple of weeks, but might be able to snag Sub/GMT.
With great effort comes great rewards.
He felt it wasn't for him and bought a Speedy Pro at the Omega boutique next door...... Gah!!!!
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I’ve got a rather big birthday (50!) coming up and, as these things go, my wife is desperate to get me a special gift.
I know it’s a pipe dream but I suggested a GMT pepsi (don’t laugh). She tried Prestons in Guildford - but they’ve closed their list. She then tried Lyons in Croydon and was told they don’t have a list, but have a “preferential” customer list i.e. customers who have bought from them beforehand. No problem since we’d bought a rolex from them back in 2011. “2011? Sorry preferential customers need to have bought from us in the previous 24 months”.
I, a middle aged and affluent consumer, with an upcoming major anniversary, am no longer a suitable customer for Rolex. I would have been quite happy to be put on a waiting list, but so be it. Shame.
But that just isn’t true; you can buy any one of the many watches that they have in stock. With a DJ you can effectively customise the watch to exactly what you want (dial, bracelet, bezel).
The only watches you can’t buy are the ones that they don’t have in stock and already have customers waiting for.
I don’t like DJ’s. Here’s the thing - I don’t expect to just walk in and buy the watch, and I understand there is a limited supply. I did, however, think it was feasible that I could walk in and put down a sizable deposit for a place on a waiting list that could maybe take 2-5 years. My wife would have been happy (relieved really), as would I. That’s not that case, which is a shame however as a previous poster on this thread said - it’s just a watch.
I get that Tony but there are so many threads these days where people say that they can’t buy a new Rolex when the fact is that they can.
That they can’t buy the specific watch that they want at RRP doesn’t change that fact. They can in fact buy any watch that they want to although they will have to pay the market rate.
I just get a bit sick of it all.
I agree with you regarding the ADs but I don’t hold Rolex in any way responsible. They have a preferred product mix (possibly but not necessarily to maximise profits) which is the same as any other manufacturer; they’re doing nothing underhand or unethical.
That a member of the general public can’t just walk into any AD and buy the exact watch of their choice is down to high demand worldwide for certain “halo” watches. It’s not that there isn’t any other choice, the chances are that there’s a TT or PM version in the window albeit at a higher price than the SS version.
To quote The Rolling Stones, “You can’t always get what you want!” and to be fair non of us have the right to expect to!
We’ll have to agree to differ on this, Dave. Just because Rolex have a global sales strategy doesn’t mean that it’s customers have to be happy with it. The way they’ve treated those customers in Europe (in particular) is to my mind disgusting. It’s deliberate undersupply.
It's commerce, no more and no less.
If you don't like the way Rolex operate, buy something else.
Like Dave said everything is available, but you won't buy it because you don't want to pay the going rate which just happens to be above MRSP.
I think we probably will Tony; I don’t see it as deliberate undersupply as much as spreading a steady manufactured volume over an enlarged market area.
I could be wrong but only an insider with actual knowledge of Rolex’s manufacturing/marketing decisions could know for sure.
It is frustrating for many and I’m sure Rolex could change their product mix if they wished but there could be many reasons why that’s not an option.
YAWN.
I think it could be agreed that supply doesn't meet demand as far a S/S sports models go. Whether Rolex are deliberately under-supplying is debateable, but they're certainly aware of the situation and so it could easily be inferred. And that's only good for Rolex - limited availability creates desire. Yes, it'll put some prospective buyers off the brand, but it'll attract far more.
I hate the Rolex business model, but I also have a grudging respect for it. They're doing something right. For yer average person, Rolex 'is' wristwatches. A materialistic ambition.
But to have to pay over MRSP for a new model. That's not good at all. It only benefits one section - the grey market dealers/profiteers. They should be sunk without trace.
It's not tosh just simple commerce. If you want to buy a Rolex, either pay the money or go elsewhere.
I don't mind the wait but not knowing how long the wait is going to be is another matter.
Problem is I always end up buying another watch in the interim and ultimately end up having more watches than I bargained for.
I am not sure about the comparison with car manufacturers. A sub is hardly the equivalent of a very limited production model. It would be like going into Porsche to buy a base 911 and being told sorry no can do. You might not get one next week but there and then they would take your deposit and you would have an indication of delivery time. Rolex do lose sales to this. If you want a watch for your 50th your not going to wait until your 51st. Rolex have poor customer servoce via the AD network deliberate or otherwise. They should take sizeable deposits for all watches with a soft indicated delivery time. That would improve the sitiation greatly and remove much of the profiteering.
Oh, I think it absolutely is, Dave. If it’s not then it suggests that Rolex don’t know what they’re doing, and I believe they know exactly what they’re doing. Keeping halo models in short supply adds to the mystique and the brand value, helps justify high prices and creates a demand that they partially satisfy with supply of other models in the range which are in plentiful supply.
Cars are no different - creating hard-to-get halo models boosts demand for more bread-and-butter models.
As others have said here, you don’t have to like the Rolex business model (and I don’t), but you do have to admire the deliberate way they use market levers to strengthen their core business.
Incidentally, the Rolex business model also (and inevitably) tows along the pricing strategy of the likes of Omega and Breitling behind them, since would-be Rolex Sports customers who don’t want non-sports alternatives are likely to turn to them instead. So the fact is that to some extent at least, Rolex are actually manipulating the whole market, not just their own...
Simon
Last edited by mycroft; 11th February 2019 at 08:26.
I think not enough attention is given to the length of the game which Rolex is playing. If they produced enough of the sports models to satiate current desire now, then soon enough the fashion would move on, and the market would be awash with second hand watches. Why would Rolex choose to risk that happening? In any case, it would be a risk in which the consequence-heavy dangers outweigh the relatively underwhelming benefits.
It is hard to accept you can’t just buy whatever takes your fancy like in the ‘good old days’
But it is what it is.
OP....I understand your frustration, and I tried to order a 991.2 GT3 touring manual and actually did get laughed at.
But what I have seen lately is forum members either passing on their place by giving info to other members to have their Ultraman (I’m on waitlist) or letting them have all details of the AD that holds a Sub for them,,and your right other instances of listings of desirable pieces either at list or in some cases above but nowhere near grey / WF prices
I think it’s refreshing that these opportunities are afforded to other members who could otherwise just sit by a phone for 2 years passing through price increases waiting for the ‘magic’ to happen.
The members could have opted to sell to the grey market potentially for more, then the same watch your complaining about would be listed at £ 1’000’s more which does not help anyone.
If the pitchforks come out everytime a desirable piece is listed I fear members will stop listing and simply sell elsewhere without the grief depriving other members of the opportunity to ‘catch’ the piece that itches their current scratch.
Anyway where’s my 116500 ?
Last edited by TKH; 11th February 2019 at 09:14.
Thanks for saving me some time, Simon!
However, Rolex are of course also allowing AD's to act the way they are (by which I mean closing the door on anyone other than repeat buyers, dishonest staff taking backhanders from people who want to flip to grey dealers for profit, etc) - if we know about it, then they will certainly know what's going on, and have chosen to allow it to happen. By doing nothing, they're equally guilty, and I most certainly don't respect them for it.
Oh, and I don't accept the car analogy, for the reasons stated (in addition to which many hard to get cars are built to order following a hefty deposit being paid by the customer - Rolex won't even take a deposit for a mass-produced trinket).
People are told they should seek the compensation they 'deserve'
Get the car they 'deserve' (on credit)
They get told that it is all about 'choices'
They get used to getting what they want/"deserve", but all of a sudden they get thwarted, simply by a lack of availability. They are keen enough on the prospect that their Rolex may either go up in value immediately or over their ownership, but also want the immediate availability (one of the main things that will destroy the increase in value) - It's akin to potential home-owners, who only want to live somewhere, that there is potential for increase in value, not able to realise that those dwellings have already started to climb.
Then - all of a sudden, they become like the footie fan who thinks that because he supports the club - he should have a say in how the team is selected..................
There is a reason they have a manager, and a reason why the board of Rolex are where they are.
And, to be honest - Rolex appear to be doing rather well !
I don’t disagree with any of that Simon but maybe I should have said that perhaps they don’t feel the need to increase supply to meet demand. Which I suppose is just another way of saying deliberately under supplying.
I’m getting confused now
Deliberately undersupplying is the fundamental business model of the entire luxury watch market. If supply were to meet demand the product would be less desirable and the price would also be different. Selling every one of your very desirable and sought after products for a high price works out better than competing to sell watches that aren't desirable for the cheapest price. Clearly Rolex have taken this to unnecessary extremes of late but that may just be because the UK became a cheap place to buy them. It's also possible that the degree of internet hype around new models and the possibility of profiting from them has escalated beyond the ability of their traditional business model to keep up.
It reminds me a little of the way nightclub doormen used to operate, and probably still do. They would make sure to keep a queue outside, as punters looking for somewhere to go would assume that was the place to be. Once you got in of course, you'd hear that depressing echoing music of a near empty club, but play the game well and it would fill up faster than the competitors. Eventually word of mouth spreads and you have a genuine queue round the block and the situation is out of control, one in - one out and a lot of unhappy customers. But the club is doing just fine and selling as many drinks as they are able to serve.
Last edited by Itsguy; 11th February 2019 at 11:40. Reason: bloody autocorregiraffecigar
I think that the chance to score one at Schiphol is very slim nowadays
Ah bless.
I don't understand what this means.
Not a bad thing I suppose can’t have enough watches !!
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
A bit 'chicken and egg' when you have to wait 24+ months for a Rolex Professional!
Do ADs give Brownie points to people who buy watches that they could sell to anyone? That seems a bit counterintuitive. I can understand them taking account of purchases of PM watches and other jewellry.
Yes they do. Purchase history, and amount of total spend is highly relevant. Buying one Rolex every year or so probably isn’t going to help so much, but having spent 10’s of thousands on watches and jewellery at some stores over the years, it made a big difference in being able to access harder to get models.
It's just a matter of time...
Just get s gold one.
No waiting, no problem!
A lot of AD’s I’ve been in recently had no full gold or bi-metal sports Rolex! I was interested in a bi-metal blue dial Sub, but none in the UK AD’s I visited, but one in every European AD I visited.
It's just a matter of time...
Apologies, I often forget that our English written forum is enjoyed by those to whom it is not their native tongue (and thus, unable to understand completely a fairly simple sentence).
So to explain, you've got someone (the OP) who has done well enough in life to be able to spend more than half of what many in this country can realistically earn in a year. Whether by hard work, education or whatever, that is a pretty bloody entitled position to live in.
And yet, despite all that talent, hard work and education he cannot strike up a relationship that thousands upon thousands of people engage in year on year to buy his folly. It's absurd.
Or are we to surmise that anyone who manages to purchase a brand new stainless steel Rolex at list is some form of deity?
Mate, I think it was more about the grammar and diction of your original post that caused the confusion.
Just stumbled across this thread from 2019 and the opening statement hasn't aged too well! When the all time low just keeps getting lowerThe purchase of a new SS Rolex Sports Model is, in my opinion, at an all time low. There are virtually no new sports models in any AD in the country and the AD's are happy to pass on all their incoming stock to "preferred" customers who hoover them up and pass them into the grey market at vast profits.
As can be seen from the new Rolex sales on SC, guys get offered list watches that they neither want or can necessarily afford and then sell them on to retain their preferred customer status and the cycle continues. No wonder ordinary folks can't purchase a new Sports model for themselves.
Rolex need to stop the practice of only selling to preferred customers and indirectly feeding the grey market, how many new Rolex can one guy buy?
When I bought my first GMT in 1981 I remember multiple Daytonas in the window of the shop for months and the salesman trying to get me to take one instead of the GMT, for a few hundred quid more - hindsight, a wonderful thing!
Anyway, rant over and I still believe most folks are decent enough not to rip profit from others. Besides, it's only what Porsche have been doing for years; I tried to pre-order a 911R and was almost laughed out of the dealership as I was not a preferred customer!!!
Rolex need to stop.......................Just stumbled across this thread from 2019 and the opening statement hasn't aged too well! When the all time low just keeps getting lower
It has nowt to do with "Rolex"
God forbid that a retailer might single out good customers for special treatment.
Thought Rolex had a centralized database of lists?
Really? So you think the registration system ADs use is actually a Rolex database?
Yes, I thought it was.
Lol
Our local AD confirmed that they register all Rolex - and Tudor - sales on a Rolex database on the date of purchase. No indication of whether the purchaser details were included in that info though (I didn’t ask)
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Ah sorry I totally missed the point. I thought that Kingstepper was stating that the "expression of interest" databases were all a single centralised database that Rolex held. I understand that Rolex keep a database of actual purchases, yes.
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