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Thread: UFO sightings..... discuss

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Well yes and no, yes the many other civilisations increase the probability and of course we are only affected by our own timeline but the timelines of one or more other civilisations need to intersect with ours, so their (presumed) short existence is relevant.

    However, the chances of there being “billions” of spacefaring civilisations is I think not large.
    Spacefaring maybe so. But looking at the numbers for fun I did a quick google to see how many stars there are, there are approximately 100 Billion Trillion stars ( 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Now if there is a 1 in a million chance of any one of those stars having planets that can sustain life that gives us 1,000,000,000,000,000 planets, if you then say that of those there is a 1 in a million chance of any of those planets having life then you get 1,000,000,000 planets with life in the universe. Now you could argue that half are more advanced and half are not, so there could be half a billion of possible spacefaring civilizations. Or if i'm 1 decimal place out 5 billion

    OK so the maths is bollox but it does go to show that realistically there is a high chance of space faring life out there in the universe.

    https://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=3775

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme View Post
    Spacefaring maybe so. But looking at the numbers for fun I did a quick google to see how many stars there are, there are approximately 100 Billion Trillion stars ( 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Now if there is a 1 in a million chance of any one of those stars having planets that can sustain life that gives us 1,000,000,000,000,000 planets, if you then say that of those there is a 1 in a million chance of any of those planets having life then you get 1,000,000,000 planets with life in the universe. Now you could argue that half are more advanced and half are not, so there could be half a billion of possible spacefaring civilizations. Or if i'm 1 decimal place out 5 billion

    OK so the maths is bollox but it does go to show that realistically there is a high chance of space faring life out there in the universe.

    https://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=3775
    It’s a really fascinating question and I guess that really the test will be civilisations that are sending out radio waves which will be greater than the spacefaring number.

    Nevertheless the size and age of the universe still makes it highly improbable: according to wiki the radius of the observable universe is about 46.7 billion light years and the actual size larger still. Signals from even the moderately far reaches of the universe can NEVER reach us so vast proportions of those potential civilisations can be discounted as just too far away.

    Add in the fact that they need to overlap in time: not quite sure my numbers are right but if we assume that a civilisation lasts on average 50,000 years (a rather long time) then there need to be a million civilisations in the life of the universe for three to co-exist at any time on average. Even if there are half a billion that only gives c. 15-17 co-existing at any one time.

    Imagine just 15 people evenly distributed on planet earth with semaphore as their only comms mechanism what are the chances they would meet up? (In fact I suspect the analogy is more like 15 snails on the planet with only their eyesight to rely on! And half the snails live in the sea.)

    Anyway it is certainly loads of fun to speculate about.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Firstly the universe is so vast that although other civilisations almost certainly exist they are likely to be unimaginably far away, the chances of them being anywhere near us is miniscule.

    Secondly the life of the universe is so long and the lifespan of any civilisation (including ours) likely to be infinitesimally small in comparison that the chances of them and us intersecting in time is also tiny.

    Both those hugely long shots would need to come through for us to have any chance of interacting with intelligent aliens.

    It’s not going to happen.
    I tend to agree with you. The distances involved in travelling about at relativistic speeds are too much for biological life.

    However you could cover a good proportion of the galaxy at relativistic speeds using tech not much more advanced than today's in a couple of hundred thousand years, the problem is carry enough fuel.

    Time dilation increases as you approach the speed of light so thats also going to help.

    If your spaceship is tiny and contains virtual AI intelligences instead of meat popsicles the time required will not be much issue.
    Once you have receiver at the other end you can just transmit data instead of physical beings.

    Interstellar travel is for the machines not for lifespan limited biological beings.
    Last edited by Mr.D; 10th February 2019 at 14:44.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

    If your spaceship is tiny and contains virtual AI intelligences instead of meat popsicles the time required will not be much issue.
    Once you have receiver at the other end you can just transmit data instead of physical beings.
    In his last book Stephen Hawking writes about nano-sized spacecraft, propelled by lasers mounted on earth driving light sails. They could reach the nearest star in 20 years and data could arrive back in another 4. The science is already understood, it ‘just’ needs to be engineered.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    In his last book Stephen Hawking writes about nano-sized spacecraft, propelled by lasers mounted on earth driving light sails. They could reach the nearest star in 20 years and data could arrive back in another 4. The science is already understood, it ‘just’ needs to be engineered.
    Not everything can be engineered. Think of the difficulty of an Earth laser hitting a nano-sized object millions of miles away. Plus the Earth is spinning, cloud cover, danger to aircraft etc.

  6. #56
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    I was interested in UFOs etc as a kid. Having then spent some time in military aviation I know the majority of sightings are easily explained. We live in an age where the majority of people in the developed world have a video camera in their pockets. If aliens were visiting us it would be trending on twitter and instagram.

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  7. #57
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    I thought that a number of scientists were working on ways of warping space in order to cover distances at the equivalent of speeds in excess of light speed?

    If this can be visualised by us - could it not be made to work by a civilization a few thousand or more years advanced than us?

    It wasnt too long ago that the concensus on earth was that human beings could not survive travelling at speeds in excess of 60mph.

  8. #58
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    If they were visiting us surely there should be more pictures of them by now?

    Like time travel, if it's possible why aren't there any time travellers among us?
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Not everything can be engineered. Think of the difficulty of an Earth laser hitting a nano-sized object millions of miles away. Plus the Earth is spinning, cloud cover, danger to aircraft etc.
    Definitely not easy. The project is called Breakthrough Starshot.

    A huge array of lasers is needed but they only fire for the first 10 minutes of the mission, at large light sails.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Starshot

  10. #60
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    This bizarre world.
    Millions of people believe in gods, angels, demons, fairies, after life, flat earth etc etc with absolutely no proof whatsoever.
    Yet with all these occurrences and sightings and footage even reported by professional pilots, police and military the mockers and scathers (even religious nuts) scream for conclusive proof.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    This bizarre world.
    Millions of people believe in gods, angels, demons, fairies, after life, flat earth etc etc with absolutely no proof whatsoever.
    Yet with all these occurrences and sightings and footage even reported by professional pilots, police and military the mockers and scathers (even religious nuts) scream for conclusive proof.
    Reminds me of Brexit, gut feelings and project fear

  12. #62
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    You Earthlings are so funny......
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.

  13. #63
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    Maybe they are already here and have always been here!!! ...don't forget USO's .

  14. #64
    Many moons ago I was shutting up shop and happened to look up as this very starge shaped object that appeared and then disappeared in the sky. It was flying in to the setting sun and it quickly went out of view due to a building. So I walked round the front and just caught the back of it disappear in the distance. It was difficult to say what shape it was but I likened it to a very short flat flying tic-tac.
    It puzzled me for a while, it's speed more so as it went rather rapidly across the sky. I say a while, the next day to be precise as I witnessed the very same thing the next day.
    It was a large aircraft that was lower in the sky than normal, hence the reason why its passage across the sky seemed quicker than tracking a normal plane at altitude
    The position of the sun in the sky and the subsequent glint off the fuselage had obscured most of the tell tale signs of a plane.
    Its very easy to be fooled by objects in the sky....especially if you let them.

  15. #65
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    Not sure how convinced I am of UFO's visiting earth early necessarily... though there have of course been a number of fascinating incidents over the years, which have variously been covered up and so forth...? Though how many have just been top secret government experiments gone wrong. Hard to say. I guess I'd say that I want to believe :)

    But I'm a fairly firm believer in life on other planets just really based purely just on the numbers... Even if it's not "intelligent" life and it's just pools of goop, microbes, or nothing more than something similar to simple apes.. why is it so implausable. You only have to look up at the night sky on a really clear night and see all those stars.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    This bizarre world.
    Millions of people believe in gods, angels, demons, fairies, after life, flat earth etc etc with absolutely no proof whatsoever.
    Yet with all these occurrences and sightings and footage even reported by professional pilots, police and military the mockers and scathers (even religious nuts) scream for conclusive proof.
    Or maybe they are equally sceptical of other equally significant unsubstantiated claims as well ...
    Last edited by tertius; 11th February 2019 at 11:22.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by chicaneuk View Post
    Not sure how convinced I am of UFO's visiting earth early necessarily... though there have of course been a number of fascinating incidents over the years, which have variously been covered up and so forth...? Though how many have just been top secret government experiments gone wrong. Hard to say. I guess I'd say that I want to believe :)

    But I'm a fairly firm believer in life on other planets just really based purely just on the numbers... Even if it's not "intelligent" life and it's just pools of goop, microbes, or nothing more than something similar to simple apes.. why is it so implausable. You only have to look up at the night sky on a really clear night and see all those stars.
    I don‘t think any of the sensible posts have disputed the probability of life on other planets - I certainly agree it is pretty well a certainty. What I and others have disputed is the claim that intelligent life has visited us here.

    Amongst the many unanswered questions is why having made the effort to travel vast distances they just had time to appear somewhat indistinctly to a handful of people in a remote spot and then they dashed off again. Probably they remembered they’d left the heating on.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    I don‘t think any of the sensible posts have disputed the probability of life on other planets - I certainly agree it is pretty well a certainty. What I and others have disputed is the claim that intelligent life has visited us here.

    Amongst the many unanswered questions is why having made the effort to travel vast distances they just had time to appear somewhat indistinctly to a handful of people in a remote spot and then they dashed off again. Probably they remembered they’d left the heating on.
    Unless you have seen something that you cannot explain, you really don't know what you are talking about. Until you do I'm afraid you will always be in the none believer court. I rarely discuss with friends or others as its pointless, my experience happened to me. I have no visual evidence as it happened so quick and I doubt that there is a camera that could have filmed it even if it had known it was going to appear. I was with two other people at the time so I know I'm just not making it up, these things just happen.
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  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by wildheart View Post
    Unless you have seen something that you cannot explain, you really don't know what you are talking about. Until you do I'm afraid you will always be in the none believer court. I rarely discuss with friends or others as its pointless, my experience happened to me. I have no visual evidence as it happened so quick and I doubt that there is a camera that could have filmed it even if it had known it was going to appear. I was with two other people at the time so I know I'm just not making it up, these things just happen.
    My old mate Ginger has a good story here
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEsb52hYxM
    I have seen lots of things I cannot explain - not being able to explain something doesn't mean the answer is necessarily aliens or sky fairies.

    Going from seeing something unusual/unexplained to "we have been visited by aliens" requires so many leaps of faith (where did they come from? how did they get here? why did they come here at all? why having got here did they only stay for 5 minutes? why were they not seen by hundreds or thousands of people? why were they not detected on radar or other systems? etc.) that it seems totally bizarre. I'm not saying its impossible only that it is very very unlikely and without sensible answers to these questions I am certainly going to remain sceptical.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    I have seen lots of things I cannot explain - not being able to explain something doesn't mean the answer is necessarily aliens or sky fairies.

    Going from seeing something unusual/unexplained to "we have been visited by aliens" requires so many leaps of faith (where did they come from? how did they get here? why did they come here at all? why having got here did they only stay for 5 minutes? why were they not seen by hundreds or thousands of people? why were they not detected on radar or other systems? etc.) that it seems totally bizarre. I'm not saying its impossible only that it is very very unlikely and without sensible answers to these questions I am certainly going to remain sceptical.
    Your missing the point, your not seeing something you cannot explain. You are witnessing something you know is not man made? There's such a difference. You cannot comprehend it? I have a reasonable IQ but what I viewed was not from our time, maybe another dimension who knows?
    I don't look for an explanation as I know it does not exist, it would be like debating life after death, know body knows.

  21. #71
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    UFO sightings..... discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post

    Amongst the many unanswered questions is why having made the effort to travel vast distances they just had time to appear somewhat indistinctly to a handful of people in a remote spot and then they dashed off again.
    Answering seriously for a moment, I think there is an explanation for this.

    If these UFOs are from an extraterrestrial intelligence, isn’t it likely that they are robotic probes rather than manned(?) spacecraft. Something relatively small and simple that could travel here at close to light speed and investigate, then send information back to the home world. If the main alien spacecraft is on its way, it could take decades or more to get here.

    The probes would have been despatched in the early 20th Century, as a response to the aliens detecting electromagnetic transmissions coming from Earth for the first time. Hence they started being observed in the ‘30s and ‘40s.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Answering seriously for a moment, I think there is an explanation for this.

    If these UFOs are from an extraterrestrial intelligence, isn’t it likely that they are robotic probes rather than manned(?) spacecraft. Something relatively small and simple that could travel here at close to light speed and investigate, then send information back to the home world. If the main alien spacecraft is on its way, it could take decades or more to get here.

    The probes would have been despatched in the early 20th Century, as a response to the aliens detecting electromagnetic transmissions coming from Earth for the first time. Hence they started being observed in the ‘30s and ‘40s.
    Doesn't explain why they spend such short time here, are their investigations that quick?

    Also, by what mechanism can they decelerate from near light speeds to more normal speeds?

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Doesn't explain why they spend such short time here, are their investigations that quick?

    Also, by what mechanism can they decelerate from near light speeds to more normal speeds?
    I’d have to think about that. Inhabitants of Pluto would only have had a few hours to see the New Horizons satellite as it flew by.

    Or maybe the robotic craft stay outside the solar system and send even smaller drones to Earth, which can only sustain short missions.

    The deceleration problem is a big one. Certainly if a way could be found to decelerate a craft from, say, 0.5x light speed, a lot of energy would be produced which in itself might be visible.

    I’m completely open-minded about whether aliens do or don’t exist and whether they have visited us. The argument that the Universe is so huge that we can’t be unique, hinges on the probability of life being created spontaneously in the right primordial soup of chemicals, triggered by the right conditions. It’s quite plausible but I don’t believe that anyone has reproduced the full process, so we don’t really know how likely or unlikely that is, however many Earth-like planets there are.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post
    I thought that a number of scientists were working on ways of warping space in order to cover distances at the equivalent of speeds in excess of light speed?

    If this can be visualised by us - could it not be made to work by a civilization a few thousand or more years advanced than us?

    It wasnt too long ago that the concensus on earth was that human beings could not survive travelling at speeds in excess of 60mph.
    I'd agree that the scientific facts of today force those very constraints to evolve and become the answers to yesterdays theories.

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    Last edited by bond; 11th February 2019 at 15:51.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by wildheart View Post
    Your missing the point, your not seeing something you cannot explain. You are witnessing something you know is not man made? There's such a difference. You cannot comprehend it? I have a reasonable IQ but what I viewed was not from our time, maybe another dimension who knows?
    I don't look for an explanation as I know it does not exist, it would be like debating life after death, know body knows.
    Well, that is a completely unanswerable position to take so I'm happy to leave this part of the discussion.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I’d have to think about that. Inhabitants of Pluto would only have had a few hours to see the New Horizons satellite as it flew by.

    Or maybe the robotic craft stay outside the solar system and send even smaller drones to Earth, which can only sustain short missions.
    That is true but a distant fly-by like that is quite different from the in-atmosphere sightings that we are discussing. Once in the atmosphere the energy required to escape is huge so surely if the drones were limited in mission time the likeliest approach would be to park them here and leave them sending data back - just as we have done with, for example, the Mars rovers.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    ...if the drones were limited in mission time the likeliest approach would be to park them here and leave them sending data back - just as we have done with, for example, the Mars rovers.
    Good point. On a populated planet, probably best to disguise them as well so that they remain undetected.

    Or for better coverage, create a large scale network of autonomous powered vehicles capable of navigating around human civilisations, scanning as they go.

  28. #78
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    I seem to recall that something with any mass getting up to a reasonable percentage of the speed of light generates all sorts of exotic and lethal radiation.

    We’ve been capable of detecting that at this stage in our development for quite a few years/decades.

    Also getting anything with considerable mass up to the speed of light creates a doomsday weapon. If it hits a planet its likely to be catastrophic.

  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    ....

    Also, by what mechanism can they decelerate from near light speeds to more normal speeds?
    By pressing the brakes very gently, you don't want to put it in a spin!

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Of course do UFOs exist. UFO = unknown flying object, i.e. we saw something but have no clue what it was. The existence of alien visitors on the other hand is a less evidenced matter...
    It's Unidentified Flying Object.

  31. #81
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    I find the Travis Walton case and the RAF Bentwaters incident (Rendlesham forest ) on boxing day 1980 to be interesting .

  32. #82
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    I saw a golden orb stationary in the sky. I stared at it for a while. Called others and we all watched it shoot vertically at impossible speed. This was in the 70s.

    I recently discovered there were a spate of similar sightings at the time. One example involved multiple sightings including police and military personnel. The now declassified files of the day concluded there were UFOs in our air space.

    What was it I saw? Not a clue. Maybe I dreamt it or the aliens implanted a fake memory during abduction.
    Gray

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    I have seen lots of things I cannot explain - not being able to explain something doesn't mean the answer is necessarily aliens or sky fairies.

    Going from seeing something unusual/unexplained to "we have been visited by aliens" requires so many leaps of faith (where did they come from? how did they get here? why did they come here at all? why having got here did they only stay for 5 minutes? why were they not seen by hundreds or thousands of people? why were they not detected on radar or other systems? etc.) that it seems totally bizarre. I'm not saying its impossible only that it is very very unlikely and without sensible answers to these questions I am certainly going to remain sceptical.
    Spot on,why would an alien race travel so far to visit for minutes only to fly away "very fast" as is always said.

    Although the Wife and myself once visited Cleethorpes and we only stayed for a short time and left very fast.


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    UFO sightings..... discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    Spot on,why would an alien race travel so far to visit for minutes only to fly away "very fast" as is always said.

    Although the Wife and myself once visited Cleethorpes and we only stayed for a short time and left very fast.
    Small lightweight scout drones. They return regularly to the main scout ship stationed just outside the solar system, for refuelling and maintenance. The scout ship is sending intelligence back to the main fleet which is much slower moving and still decades away.

    Trickier in the case of Cleethorpes. I guess you’d need a fast RIB back to the ferry stationed in Hull, and then make a choice between another run into Cleethorpes or hope for more luck in Skegness.
    Last edited by alfat33; 13th February 2019 at 09:37.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gray View Post
    I saw a golden orb stationary in the sky. I stared at it for a while. Called others and we all watched it shoot vertically at impossible speed. This was in the 70s.

    I recently discovered there were a spate of similar sightings at the time.
    Do you have a link to any news stories? It sounds interesting.

    I remember reading about ball lightning, which sounds similar but with some clear differences. Maybe it was a craft of some sort.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Do you have a link to any news stories? It sounds interesting.

    I remember reading about ball lightning, which sounds similar but with some clear differences. Maybe it was a craft of some sort.
    I don't have links. it was around a while before it arose.

    Before any other life contacts us it would be logical for them to send probes.

    Before visiting they may have to prepare the way by ensuring they are protected from, or develop immunity to, our environment. If practicing safe alien exploration they'd probably prepare us, our environment too, to make sure they didn't wipe us out - unless that's a desirable outcome for them. These preparations could take thousands of years...

    There's always the chance too that we are not approached by official alien representatives. We could end up with an alien Richard Branson or Elon Musk dropping by 😳
    Gray

  37. #87
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    Why is it that every siting evidenced by imagery is either very blurred or so distant it could be anything?

  38. #88
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    Whilst we're on the subject what are peoples thoughts on Oumuamua?

    Could it be a light-sail created by an alien civilisation that it is now being accelerated by sunlight? Or just a big old interstellar rock?

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by relaxer7 View Post
    Whilst we're on the subject what are peoples thoughts on Oumuamua?

    Could it be a light-sail created by an alien civilisation that it is now being accelerated by sunlight? Or just a big old interstellar rock?
    Don’t think it was significantly accelerated by sunlight, entered solar system at high speed.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by gray View Post
    I saw a golden orb stationary in the sky. I stared at it for a while. Called others and we all watched it shoot vertically at impossible speed. This was in the 70s.

    I recently discovered there were a spate of similar sightings at the time. One example involved multiple sightings including police and military personnel. The now declassified files of the day concluded there were UFOs in our air space.

    What was it I saw? Not a clue. Maybe I dreamt it or the aliens implanted a fake memory during abduction.
    Chinese paper laterns through low cloud.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by gray View Post
    I don't have links. it was around a while before it arose.

    Before any other life contacts us it would be logical for them to send probes
    edit

    Yes agreed.

    However they would probably announce their presence well in advance over radio waves. Probably in the form of mathematics and science based messages.

    No point bringing cultural references into the first contact , we’d have thousands of years to establish that level of interchange. Culture will only get in the way until a reasonable dialogue is confirmed.

    Hopefully the two civilisations would gradually learn about each other over centuries. I think ultimately whatever cultural and technological differences we had no matter how divergent would be made redundant over several hundred years of distant contact and we’d probably both develop a massive cultural renaissance and inevitably meld our two cultures together.

    By the time we physically interacted we would be effectively one civilisation before we met face to face. Bear in mind this would have taken longer than recorded history ; we would have gone through all the schismatic culture shock and trauma before we ever physically inhabited the same space. I think it would be quite beautiful like meeting a long communicated with cousin after decades for the first time.

    Whatever failings both cultures had ( and we have plenty ourselves) would be levelled out. Sure we and they might fight wars for a time and experience the full spectrum of mirrored behaviour and sociological trauma but ultimately we would both be the same culture by the time we finally shook hands maybe even thousands of tears later after first contact.

    I think we’d ultimately love each other no matter where we started. Distance and time is not always a disadvantage . 300 years ago the fastet thing we had to convey information was a guy on a horse. We ain’t doing too badly people.

    Notice “Culture” and Iain M. Banks

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post
    Notice “Culture” and Iain M. Banks
    What a thoughtful and thought provoking post.

    Sad that Iain Banks is gone.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post
    However they would probably announce their presence well in advance over radio waves.

  44. #94
    Grand Master gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post
    Chinese paper laterns through low cloud.
    Nah. It was a golden metallic perfect sphere and remained so while stationary and travelled ing vertically at speed - and this was the seventies, paper lanterns weren't so much a thing then
    Gray

  45. #95
    Aliens do exist :)


  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    This bizarre world.
    Millions of people believe in gods, angels, demons, fairies, after life, flat earth etc etc with absolutely no proof whatsoever.
    Yet with all these occurrences and sightings and footage even reported by professional pilots, police and military the mockers and scathers (even religious nuts) scream for conclusive proof.
    Proof of what? I'd say it's proof of objects that cannot be readily identified, but alien life?
    I'd say that puts the "proof" back in the realms of flat earth, angels, demons, fairies etc...
    ...just jumped-to conclusions based on the human need to not let a good story get in the way of the facts.

  47. #97
    Journeyman
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    I watched the new bob lazar area 51 documentary at the weekend, very good. Some of the old louis theroux documentaries are a fascinating look into life in rural America too.

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by wildheart View Post
    Your missing the point, your not seeing something you cannot explain. You are witnessing something you know is not man made? There's such a difference. You cannot comprehend it? I have a reasonable IQ but what I viewed was not from our time, maybe another dimension who knows?
    I don't look for an explanation as I know it does not exist, it would be like debating life after death, know body knows.
    You have absolutely no way of knowing that a thing is "not from our time" or from "maybe another dimension".

    This becomes especially true when we consider that your reasons for believing these things come not from any comprehension of what you saw, but rather from a complete lack of comprehension.

    To say that an explanation does not exist would only be a true statement if the thing you saw did not exist.

    All things that exist have explanations. Whether we know them yet or not.

    Primitive man used to think that crop failure was a punishment from the gods, fire was the work of evil spirits and that birds stayed in the air by magic.

    All nonsense of course... but based on an inability to explain things that were totally of their time, of their dimension and totally explainable - but which had been very impressive to them and beyond their ability to explain.

    We are too quick to give up and point to the skies...

  49. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Irish boy View Post
    I watched the new bob lazar area 51 documentary at the weekend, very good. Some of the old louis theroux documentaries are a fascinating look into life in rural America too.
    Did you ever watch the documentary they mocked-up at the surrounding desert to area 51 involving a tour group and a faked alien crash, using really awful props like marathon runners heat foil blankets and dodgy dummies?

    Questioned just after, the group began to make things up in their minds... few weeks later they had imagined armed guards, alien bodies and spacecraft fragments...

    ...powerful thing the human mind - if modern game consoles can make us see imaginary worlds together, just think what our brains are capable of.

    The statement "I KNOW WHAT I SAW!" has more holes in it than a lace tablecloth...

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