UFO sightings..... discuss

[Mr.D]

For discussion, confirmation that the footage is real.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/newsbe...-navy-officers

I’m still of the opinion the rotating one is some sort if sensor glitch , flare or echo and the pilots know exactly what is and are hamming it up for a laugh.

The low level fast dot I think isn’t moving that fast and its exaggerated/ made ambiguous by the very tight telephoto lens being used to track it having little parallax and a compressed field of view.

[Andyg]

The Universe is about 13,500,000,000 years old. Our solar system is about 4,500,000,000 years old.
Life on earth started about 3,500,000,000 years ago. The first modern human started to inhabit the earth about 100,000 years ago and we put a man on the moon 60 years ago.

Given the size of the universe, the number of galaxies, the number of planets, etc, it’s crazy to think a) we are not alone, b) that something hasn’t evolved faster and gained better technology than us. Finally it’s also crazy to assume that we actually understand all the laws of physics given we don’t really understand gravity or dark matter, etc.

In fact it’s not just crazy it’s also incredibly arrogant. As for the speed of their visits, they are probably thinking - “nothing much to see here - yet”.

In regards to using pulsed lasers as a method of propulsion, why do people assume the lasers need to be located inside the earth’s atmosphere. There is a massive ball of gas at the centre of the solar system emitting huge amounts of Engery which could be used to power lasers using current technologies.

[Graeme]

The Universe is about 13,500,000,000 years old. Our solar system is about 4,500,000,000 years old.
Life on earth started about 3,500,000,000 years ago. The first modern human started to inhabit the earth about 100,000 years ago and we put a man on the moon 60 years ago.

Given the size of the universe, the number of galaxies, the number of planets, etc, it’s crazy to think a) we are not alone, b) that something hasn’t evolved faster and gained better technology than us. Finally it’s also crazy to assume that we actually understand all the laws of physics given we don’t really understand gravity or dark matter, etc.

In fact it’s not just crazy it’s also incredibly arrogant. As for the speed of their visits, they are probably thinking - “nothing much to see here - yet”.

In regards to using pulsed lasers as a method of propulsion, why do people assume the lasers need to be located inside the earth’s atmosphere. There is a massive ball of gas at the centre of the solar system emitting huge amounts of Engery which could be used to power lasers using current technologies.

There is every possibility of life out there in fact it say at this point that it's a given but given the age of the universe as you say, the chances of that life existing at the same time period as us is slim. Also given the immense size the possibly of travelling here from any other inhabited planet would take lifetimes unless they could bend time and space.
So if you add it up the chances of an intelligently inhabited planet co existing in our timeline, with the means to travel here are extremely rare.
But lets say for arguments sake that everything aligned and it has happened. Do you think they would come here just to go joy riding in their little spaceships and not make contact ? What's the point of all their time and effort and expense to get here ?
Unless there is some secret society of aliens living here and trading with us that is kept secret from the whole world.

Actually now would be a good time to ask Trump if there aliens in Area 51, if there are he would tell everyone about them if he thought it would get him re-elected.

[Kingstepper]

There is every possibility of life out there in fact it say at this point that it's a given but given the age of the universe as you say, the chances of that life existing at the same time period as us is slim. Also given the immense size the possibly of travelling here from any other inhabited planet would take lifetimes unless they could bend time and space.
So if you add it up the chances of an intelligently inhabited planet co existing in our timeline, with the means to travel here are extremely rare.
But lets say for arguments sake that everything aligned and it has happened. Do you think they would come here just to go joy riding in their little spaceships and not make contact ? What's the point of all their time and effort and expense to get here ?
Unless there is some secret society of aliens living here and trading with us that is kept secret from the whole world.

Actually now would be a good time to ask Trump if there aliens in Area 51, if there are he would tell everyone about them if he thought it would get him re-elected.

Life on Earth has existed for ~quarter age of Universe. If similar elsewhere I'd say that the chance of life existing elsewhere now is not slim. Don't disagree with rest of post.

[Alpha4]

Perhaps the visiting aliens take the form of a virus......

[Graeme]

Life on Earth has existed for ~quarter age of Universe. If similar elsewhere I'd say that the chance of life existing elsewhere now is not slim. Don't disagree with rest of post.

Ok, so life began on earth 3.5 billion years ago but humans only from around 200,000 years ago and only in last 50 years did we manage to get off our planet and the furthest we traveled is just to our own moon.

There might be a billion planets around us with nothing more than vegetation.

Also how many different species of life is on our planet, millions yet only one is intelligent enough to be able to build rockets.

There could be another billion planets around us with just dinosaurs, or million year old cavemen that never evolved.

So just because there is life doesnt mean intelligent life, at a point in time where they have evolved technology.

The more variables you throw at it the less of a chance of someone visiting, and obvously there are lots more variables.

[~dadam02~]

Love these types of discussions. Taking Andy's figures - if the universe is 13.5b years old and life on Earth started 3.5b years ago, what if life began on even just one other planet somewhere say 10b years ago, that would be 6.5b years head start on us. They'd either have hit to a stage technologically where they'd have blown themselves up long ago or distance wouldn't be a problem for them and they'd be here in a weekly basis, if it was even at all interesting to do so.

[Mr.D]

I don’t think biological species will be space faring to any extent. Too many incompatibilities . Space isn’t the environment for us we’re planet dwellers.

Machine intelligence however would not have the same limitations in terms of space and time. So something we give rise to may well think journey times of a few tens of thousands of years are acceptable. You could think of that as evolution.

[number2]

If they arrive and things go bad it's important to remember these three words - "Klaatu barada nikto",

[oldoakknives]

When different civilisations meet it doesn’t usually end well for the less advanced.
Will it be ET or the Mysterons?

[Mr.D]

When different civilisations meet it doesn’t usually end well for the less advanced.
Will it be ET or the Mysterons?

Developed countries meet and Interact with less developed countries all the time with mutual advantage. The days of empire building meant even advanced civilisations would generally try to usurp one another.

That’s merely an aspect of a time in human history not a benchmark for the universe. Those days are in the past.

[Russ]

In a universe of infinite possibilities there will be an infinite number of realities, but the distances are great.

[Kingstepper]

Ok, so life began on earth 3.5 billion years ago but humans only from around 200,000 years ago and only in last 50 years did we manage to get off our planet and the furthest we traveled is just to our own moon.

There might be a billion planets around us with nothing more than vegetation.

Also how many different species of life is on our planet, millions yet only one is intelligent enough to be able to build rockets.

There could be another billion planets around us with just dinosaurs, or million year old cavemen that never evolved.

So just because there is life doesnt mean intelligent life, at a point in time where they have evolved technology.

The more variables you throw at it the less of a chance of someone visiting, and obvously there are lots more variables.

You initially said the chance of life existing elsewhere now is slim. Not intelligent life.

[Andyg]

Ok, so life began on earth 3.5 billion years ago but humans only from around 200,000 years ago and only in last 50 years did we manage to get off our planet and the furthest we traveled is just to our own moon.

There might be a billion planets around us with nothing more than vegetation.

Also how many different species of life is on our planet, millions yet only one is intelligent enough to be able to build rockets.

There could be another billion planets around us with just dinosaurs, or million year old cavemen that never evolved.

So just because there is life doesnt mean intelligent life, at a point in time where they have evolved technology.

The more variables you throw at it the less of a chance of someone visiting, and obvously there are lots more variables.

Perhaps the problem is that we struggle to think outside the limits of our own imagination and current knowledge. For some reason the majority of us think that aliens will be carbon based for example, where as this actually might be incredibly rare and that Silicon based life forms might be more normal. We think that aliens must take a physical form, where as they could exist as a gas or liquid. Finally because we breath oxygen, we assume that all life requires it, despite oxygen being only the 3rd most common element in the universe. Helium might be have become a better alternative because it’s more inert and more plentiful. Assuming of course they need to breathe.

These factors might explain why visits are fleeting. The earths environment might actually be massively toxic. Wrong atmosphere, wrong temperature, to much/to little radiation, plus a pathological desire to destroy stuff. A bit like if we tried to visit Saturn.

[Mr.D]

In a universe of infinite possibilities there will be an infinite number of realities, but the distances are great.

Its not infinite.

[Saint-Just]

Using Helium as an example (or any other inert gas) doesn't make sense precisely because they are inert, i.e. they do not react chemically and therefore would not be suitable for consumption by any life form as a substitute to our respiration, which involves a highly reactive gas (Oxygen) to 'feed' the chemical reactions needed to sustain us.

[sweets]

The hurdle to overcome here is not the existence of intelligent civilisations, of which there may be a great many.
It is where they are and the impossibility of overcoming the gap to us.
We have had a pretty good look and the nearest goldilocks planet candidate is 4 light years away, and we have so far found 34 within 50 light years. We will discover more, but the number will not change in orders of magnitude.
So that is 34 candidates with the slightest possibility of life.
Not many in this range.

So far we have (with Voyager 1) the fastest and furthest space travel of 1/600th of a light year in 30 years of travelling. 80,000 years to get to the nearest planet candidate, which we have now dismissed as a life-bearing candidate.
covering these gaps is not a problem of engineering, it is a problem of physics. The barriers are too high to "engineer" our way over. This is not just true of us. It is true of anyone "visiting" us.

We are not alone. But our neighbours are too far away for us to consider ourselves anyhting other than alone.
More importantly, we have some amazing things here on our rock, and it is incumbent on us that we look after that. And we are not
D

[oldoakknives]

Its not infinite.

If apparently there is an end to the universe, what would be beyond it, given it is expanding into something beyond.

[redmonaco]

If apparently there is an end to the universe, what would be beyond it, given it is expanding into something beyond.

Without googling I'm going to go for "Nothing", and that is what the "Universe" is expanding in to??

[Kingstepper]

Without googling I'm going to go for "Nothing", and that is what the "Universe" is expanding in to??

It’s not expanding into it, it’s just expanding.

[oldoakknives]

Without googling I'm going to go for "Nothing", and that is what the "Universe" is expanding in to??

It’s not expanding into it, it’s just expanding.

So either way it's expanding 'into' something, even if it's an empty space. So what's beyond that?

[Graeme]

So either way it's expanding 'into' something, even if it's an empty space. So what's beyond that?

Well given that with today's technology it would take us... 250,000,000,000,000 years to get there, I dont think we will ever know for definite. I think its just speculation on part of scientist

[Saint-Just]

It’s difficult to grasp but there isn’t “an empty space”. The space doesn’t exist yet. At least that’s how I understand it.

[oldoakknives]

It’s difficult to grasp but there isn’t “an empty space”. The space doesn’t exist yet. At least that’s how I understand it.

It's a strange concept. And if the universe started with the 'Big Bang' what if anything existed before that? And if it did exist where was it?

But the main question must be of course, where do the Mysterons fit into all this?

[Saint-Just]

It's a strange concept. And if the universe started with the 'Big Bang' what if anything existed before that? And if it did exist where was it?

But the main question must be of course, where do the Mysterons fit into all this?

Time did not exist therefore there was nothing before (I am not making this any easier, am I?)

[oldoakknives]

Time did not exist therefore there was nothing before (I am not making this any easier, am I?)

So in the beginning there was nothing. Then there was something. Be like.....First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is....

[number2]

If there's nothing in space then it's empty, however It can't be empty until something has actually been in it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_t...ls_in_a_forest

I'm probably thinking in the wrong direction - lockdown fever

[Saint-Just]

If there's nothing in space then it's empty, however It can't be empty until something has actually been in it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_t...ls_in_a_forest

I'm probably thinking in the wrong direction - lockdown fever

The very concept of physics do not apply. The "Universe" doesn't exist before the BB because no dimension exist: no length, no time, nothing. Likewise for beyond where the Universe has expanded. It's actually (a little) easier to understand mathematically because of its abstract nature. When you think "physics" you have to apply it to something more concrete and our imagination cannot compute it. Just like we cannot compute easily beyond 4 dimensions.

[number2]

The very concept of physics do not apply. The "Universe" doesn't exist before the BB because no dimension exist: no length, no time, nothing. Likewise for beyond where the Universe has expanded. It's actually (a little) easier to understand mathematically because of its abstract nature. When you think "physics" you have to apply it to something more concrete and our imagination cannot compute it. Just like we cannot compute easily beyond 4 dimensions.

Okay I'm good with that, but what went bang?

[Andyg]

Okay I'm good with that, but what went bang?

if you subscribe to the theory that Engery can not be created nor destroyed - simply converted, (first law of thermodynamics), then energy must have existed (in order for it to go bang). Therefore the idea that nothing existed before the Big Bang is a bit questionable.

[Franky Four Fingers]

First law of thermodynamics- never talk about thermodynamics.

[Kingstepper]

It's suggested positive energy (light, matter etc.) in the Universe is balanced by the negative energy of gravity.

https://www.livescience.com/33129-to...erse-zero.html

[GraniteQuarry]

Tea, Earl Grey, hot.

[redmonaco]

Okay I'm good with that, but what went bang?

schroders cat??? (not that anyone would have heard it...)

[sundial]

https://www.bufora.org.uk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...ch_Association

[joe narvey]

schroders cat??? (not that anyone would have heard it...)

Didn’t he sell tiddles to Schrödinger and then complain when he poisoned it ?

[Umbongo]

The hurdle to overcome here is not the existence of intelligent civilisations, of which there may be a great many.
It is where they are and the impossibility of overcoming the gap to us.
We have had a pretty good look and the nearest goldilocks planet candidate is 4 light years away, and we have so far found 34 within 50 light years. We will discover more, but the number will not change in orders of magnitude.
So that is 34 candidates with the slightest possibility of life.
Not many in this range.

So far we have (with Voyager 1) the fastest and furthest space travel of 1/600th of a light year in 30 years of travelling. 80,000 years to get to the nearest planet candidate, which we have now dismissed as a life-bearing candidate.
covering these gaps is not a problem of engineering, it is a problem of physics. The barriers are too high to "engineer" our way over. This is not just true of us. It is true of anyone "visiting" us.

We are not alone. But our neighbours are too far away for us to consider ourselves anyhting other than alone.
More importantly, we have some amazing things here on our rock, and it is incumbent on us that we look after that. And we are not
D

Good post.
I think the best we can hope for - if we can hope for even this - is finding a way to broadcast information about ourselves to be discovered long after humanity, as it surely will, ceases to exist.
Also to look for broadcasts from any civilizations that that have had the same idea.

Actual contact with alien visitors is as improbable as an elf turning up to halfords riding a Pegasus.

[cjmcd]

Follow the money.....
Pentagon released footage of ufo, usa probably running out of countries to invade, so, Space Force!!
Recently created to protect our beloved earth from ‘possibly’ hostile invaders (a Quinn Martin production) getting $21bn next year, regular military can’t ‘justify’ current budget so let’s divert it into space, you couldn’t make this shit up!
No doubt there are other beings in the cosmos, but they won’t pay
Stay safe
Nanananu


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Graeme]

Well if you think about it we have had almost all of the disaster movie story lines recently, ... floods, fires, earthquakes, volcanoes, pandemics etc, the only one we haven't had is the alien invasion.
Maybe releasing that footage was just a warm up :D

[catch21]

I conjure up the conversation two limpets might have, if they could, after being aware of two recreational scuba divers going past.

[Mr.D]

I conjure up the conversation two limpets might have, if they could, after being aware of two recreational scuba divers going past.

“ hey look at the mussels on that !”
“Oh clam up !”

[oldoakknives]

I conjure up the conversation two limpets might have, if they could, after being aware of two recreational scuba divers going past.

Perhaps we are simply looking through the pooliverse at the eyeballs in the sky.

[Holsterman]

if you subscribe to the theory that Engery can not be created nor destroyed - simply converted, (first law of thermodynamics), then energy must have existed (in order for it to go bang). Therefore the idea that nothing existed before the Big Bang is a bit questionable.

The concept of "before" the Big Bang lacks merit because time did not exist. What's north of the North Pole?

[Holsterman]

So either way it's expanding 'into' something, even if it's an empty space. So what's beyond that?

Think of space-time as the rubber surface of a balloon being blown up.

[sundial]

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov

Following next year's planned launch of the James Webb Space Telescope, our knowledge of the 'big bang' and the billions of other galaxies in the Universe ... and dark matter and dark energy ... could be due for revision

JWST will observe the red and mid-infrared light ... not the UV ... thus peering further back into the early universe's light which has been 'stretched and red-shifted' and not previously analysed in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ihVeEoUdo


... a new dawn of discovery is on the horizon ... JWST is a time machine


dunk

[Mr.D]

I conjure up the conversation two limpets might have, if they could, after being aware of two recreational scuba divers going past.

Think of space-time as the rubber surface of a balloon being blown up.

Yes think of the universe as existing in the surface of the balloon but the area inside the balloon and the area outside the balloon doesn’t exist . Only the surface membrane space time exists.

On the “infinite” thing infinity is one of those handy mathematical signifiers that is useful to balance otherwise unworkable theoretical equations.

So you can have “infinity” as a correct and useful answer . You can have an infinite number of describable points on a line of finite length for example.

In the universe however all the matter/energy it contains was the same as released at the moment of the big bang and will remain finite ( hence the heat death of the universe as it continues to expand without new energy being introduced).

If we existed in an infinite universe it would be deeply problematic . Physics wouldn’t work , literally everything anyone could imagine would co-exist somewhere even the worst nightmares and nirvanas. Apart from that being an unsettling idea causality would be out the window. An infinite universe just breaks down completely contradicts itself at every fundamental level. Its like dividing zero by itself . It just can’t be defined at the idea level and make any sense let alone as a reality.

[Alpha4]

Think of the universe as a big inflated condom. We are the sperm and the planets are the eggs.

[oldoakknives]

Think of space-time as the rubber surface of a balloon being blown up.

And where is the balloon?

[Holsterman]

And where is the balloon?

The balloon is everywhere and every time there is, and nowhere else.

[oldoakknives]

The balloon is everywhere and every time there is, and nowhere else.

Why is it us? Why us?