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Thread: Cycle help please (maintenance) sorted

  1. #1
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    Cycle help please (maintenance) sorted

    Just picked up a GT for a winter hack - the hydrolic breaks were not too hot - though the previous owner had soaked the bike in wd40
    So I slipped them out - light sanding and cleaned everything with isopropyl alcohol- on reassembly they are just rubbish and donít even bring the wheel to a stop
    Have I made a school boy error?
    Ta
    Untitled by biglewie, on Flickr
    Untitled by biglewie, on Flickr
    Last edited by lewie; 15th February 2019 at 16:18.

  2. #2
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    If the pads have had WD 40 on for any period of time them the pads will be toast. You sound fairly practical since you have removed them, I would just do two further checks.

    1) Have you wipedthe disks down with Ipa. Start at the edge of the rota and work in, so non of the axle grease gets on the braking surface.

    2) Are the hydraulics working, eg are the pads touching and then squeezing the rota? A bright light pointed down by the caliper will show this.

    3) I the pads dont move with much force then its good old fashioned brake bleeding which is painful on a bicycle as they only have about 2cc of fluid in the reservoir.

    If 1&2 are OK I would invest in new pads. Often Halfords ON LINE is as cheap as Chain Reaction and Wiggle. If you cant work out the make or model of the pads , pop along to a local bike store

    Hth

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    Discs and electronic gears...the two things concerning bikes that I know nothing about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    If the pads have had WD 40 on for any period of time them the pads will be toast. You sound fairly practical since you have removed them, I would just do two further checks.

    1) Have you wipedthe disks down with Ipa. Start at the edge of the rota and work in, so non of the axle grease gets on the braking surface.

    2) Are the hydraulics working, eg are the pads touching and then squeezing the rota? A bright light pointed down by the caliper will show this.

    3) I the pads dont move with much force then its good old fashioned brake bleeding which is painful on a bicycle as they only have about 2cc of fluid in the reservoir.

    If 1&2 are OK I would invest in new pads. Often Halfords ON LINE is as cheap as Chain Reaction and Wiggle. If you cant work out the make or model of the pads , pop along to a local bike store

    Hth
    agreed. If WD40 or GT85 have been near the pads they'll be dead.

    You could try cooking the pads on an oven ring, it's worked in the past for me.

    If you need new pads make sure the rotors aren't 'resin only' before making the mistake of mating the rotors with sintered pads.... I've done that before and wondered why the brakes feel wooden.
    Last edited by RD200; 5th February 2019 at 19:58.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post

    3) I the pads dont move with much force then its good old fashioned brake bleeding which is painful on a bicycle as they only have about 2cc of fluid in the reservoir.
    I use a large syringe to slowly push the fluid up from the bleed nipple, donít even need to bleed them afterwards.

  6. #6
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    Good tip, I come from a motorcycle background so I have bled them like that, nice touch to start from the bottom as they have bugger all at the top.

    Steve

  7. #7
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    I don't have much experience of push bike disc brakes but saw this article recently and bookmarked it for future reference as I have bought a bike with disc brakes..

    https://road.cc/content/feature/2330...mance-out-them

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    I bled my shimanos from top to bottom and back to top again with a burp to finish off.

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    As has been said, bin the pads and fit new ones (you could always replace the discs as well if they look a bit rough as they're not that expensive). Make sure to bed them in before you go off for the first ride.

  10. #10
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    What brakes are they by the way?

  11. #11
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    Thanks all - Iíll check it out tomorrow- Iíll start by bleeding them as they seem very spongy then take it from there
    Thanks

  12. #12
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    everything looks in good conditon - and after a ride in to work this morning they are working(sort of) but the leaver needs to be pulled right to the bar- cold it just be a case of needing to be bled?

  13. #13
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    Simple tip, on the principle air rises through the oil, today at work or overnight, pull the lever on as much as it will go. In you case back to the bars. Then hold it there with an elastc band around the bars or tape. This opens up all the valves and allows air to percolate up into the reservoir

    When you return to it tonight , take the tape elastic off, et voila
    Last edited by higham5; 6th February 2019 at 08:50.

  14. #14
    Couple of other little tips when you're bleeding hydraulic brakes - if you tap the hose with a small spanner as you're bleeding it can sometime dislodge air that's trapped, particularly if it's not a straight run. Also, air sometimes gets trapped behind the pistons so it can be worth squeezing one piston out while you hold the other back.

    If they feel spongy and you're pulling the lever to bars (assuming there isn't an adjustment for that on the levers) then a decent bleed is the first job. I'd consider changing out the pads anyway - particularly if there's been a judicious use of wd40 all over the place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    everything looks in good conditon - and after a ride in to work this morning they are working(sort of) but the leaver needs to be pulled right to the bar- cold it just be a case of needing to be bled?
    Yes. Sounds like they just need bled. Check what type of fluid they need and buy the appropriate bleed kit from a bike store or eBay (usually just a few syringes and hoses sometimes with specific fittings).

    I've found different manufacturers brakes often need different techniques for bleeding. Loads of tips here so I'm sure you'll figure what works.
    Last edited by mowflow; 6th February 2019 at 11:03.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    Simple tip, on the principle air rises through the oil, today at work or overnight, pull the lever on as much as it will go. In you case back to the bars. Then hold it there with an elastc band around the bars or tape. This opens up all the valves and allows air to percolate up into the reservoir

    When you return to it tonight , take the tape elastic off, et voila
    You can also tap the caliper and hose a few times to encourage the bubbles to free up to the open reservoir.
    Start at the calliper with a screwdriver handle and work up the hose to the lever when itís held back.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    Simple tip, on the principle air rises through the oil, today at work or overnight, pull the lever on as much as it will go. In you case back to the bars. Then hold it there with an elastc band around the bars or tape. This opens up all the valves and allows air to percolate up into the reservoir

    When you return to it tonight , take the tape elastic off, et voila
    Thanks bands already on the bike - ive noticed there is no bleed screw on the resovoire

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    You can also tap the caliper and hose a few times to encourage the bubbles to free up to the open reservoir.
    Start at the calliper with a screwdriver handle and work up the hose to the lever when itís held back.
    i loosened the lever too and moved it round to different angles while i tapped the hose. It all helps to get the last tiny bubbles out.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    Thanks bands already on the bike - ive noticed there is no bleed screw on the resovoire
    It might help if you tell us what bike and brakes they are.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    It might help if you tell us what bike and brakes they are.
    Sorry its a GT and they are Shimano mineral breaks but have no markings on them on what 'model' they are
    Ive ordered a kit from ebay

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    Sorry its a GT and they are Shimano mineral breaks but have no markings on them on what 'model' they are
    Ive ordered a kit from ebay
    GT make many types of bike, road, commute and mountain - do you know what model the GT is?

  22. #22
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    its an Aggressor XC1 mountain bike

  23. #23
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    Okay quite an old bike by the look of it 2009 looks to be the last year they were marketed.

    The shimano brakes could well be a later replacement, it looks like they came with avid as stock brakes.
    The model of shimano brake will govern the best bleading process.

    This covers the more modern brakes, Iíll see if I can find a reference to the older ones.
    https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/artic...-brakes-43182/

  24. #24
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    Thanks - Ive ordered a kit from totalbleedsolutions on ebay that should be here at the weekend.
    Pics in post 1 now

  25. #25
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    Sorry slightly OT but I remain very sceptical about the need for hydraulic brakes on a bicycle. One of the joys of bikes is their simplicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    Thanks - Ive ordered a kit from totalbleedsolutions on ebay that should be here at the weekend.
    Pics in post 1 now
    I replaced a set of Avids with Deore (M615's i think) brilliant for the money.
    Did you order a funnel with the bleed kit?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    Sorry slightly OT but I remain very sceptical about the need for hydraulic brakes on a bicycle. One of the joys of bikes is their simplicity.
    I can't imagine cantilever brakes being much use on a downhill mountain bike.

    Running discs on my road bike has also required far less fiddling (constant adjustment required for cantilevers as pads wear. Disks are self adjusting) and over the long term has worked out cheaper than cantilever brakes (the occasional set of disks and pads versus brake blocks, cables and eventually a new wheel set due to wear on the braking surface of the rim).

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD200 View Post
    I replaced a set of Avids with Deore (M615's i think) brilliant for the money.
    Did you order a funnel with the bleed kit?
    No- see pic one- no bleed 'hole'

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    I can't imagine cantilever brakes being much use on a downhill mountain bike.

    Running discs on my road bike has also required far less fiddling (constant adjustment required for cantilevers as pads wear. Disks are self adjusting) and over the long term has worked out cheaper than cantilever brakes (the occasional set of disks and pads versus brake blocks, cables and eventually a new wheel set due to wear on the braking surface of the rim).
    Are all disk installations hydraulic or can you get cable operated discs?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    I can't imagine cantilever brakes being much use on a downhill mountain bike.

    Running discs on my road bike has also required far less fiddling (constant adjustment required for cantilevers as pads wear. Disks are self adjusting) and over the long term has worked out cheaper than cantilever brakes (the occasional set of disks and pads versus brake blocks, cables and eventually a new wheel set due to wear on the braking surface of the rim).
    Were cantilever brakes any good? they were popular in Cyclocross until discs. I'd like discs but reading this thread tells me that my maintenance skills/patience would be tested.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    No- see pic one- no bleed 'hole'
    D'oh (I've gone red) and are they Deore's (d'oh again)??

    It was an older model of Deore that had 'resin only' rotors on.

    I ended up replacing the avids with complete deore system on one bike and on another, old Deore's for a Deore/SLX mix.

    That bleed kit is very good BTW

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrushton View Post
    Were cantilever brakes any good? they were popular in Cyclocross until discs. I'd like discs but reading this thread tells me that my maintenance skills/patience would be tested.
    Hydraulic system hardly needs touching once set, dont be put off.

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

  33. #33
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    jut wondering how I do this as there seems to be no bleed screw in the reservoie

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    jut wondering how I do this as there seems to be no bleed screw in the reservoie
    The bleed screw is on the calliper in your first pic, put your bleed hose on there pull leaver as hard as you can then loosen nipple by half turn to expel air then tighten nipple fill reservoir and repeat

    Could be the the fluid is just low in leaver pot

    Best way Iíve found to get wd40 out of pads is to boil them in a pan for half hour but yours a most likely shagged

  35. #35
    Undo the 2 screws and take the lid off

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by mrushton View Post
    Were cantilever brakes any good? they were popular in Cyclocross until discs. I'd like discs but reading this thread tells me that my maintenance skills/patience would be tested.

    Cantilever brakes are the work of the devil! Way harder to get working well and even the best ones work a fraction as well as hydraulic disc brakes.

    The only brakes which are harder to work on are those integrated mini V-brakes you sometimes see on TT bikes.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    Sorry slightly OT but I remain very sceptical about the need for hydraulic brakes on a bicycle. One of the joys of bikes is their simplicity.
    I would hate to ride some of my local MTB trails without hydraulic brakes, don't think I'd be able to stop😱

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    Are all disk installations hydraulic or can you get cable operated discs?
    You normally find the cable operated disc brakes on the cheaper mountain bikes or kids ones. Still better than the old systems but not half as good as the hydraulic ones.

  39. #39
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    Bleeding brakes is a total faff. If you're after cheap riding, rather than performance, why not just buy some brand new hydraulic brakes? Can get some Clarks hydros including rotor for 24 quid from crc. They will be much better than your current setup. If you're really saving money then just replace the fronts, which is where most of the stopping power will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmonk3y View Post
    Bleeding brakes is a total faff. If you're after cheap riding, rather than performance, why not just buy some brand new hydraulic brakes? Can get some Clarks hydros including rotor for 24 quid from crc. They will be much better than your current setup. If you're really saving money then just replace the fronts, which is where most of the stopping power will be.
    if you buy the complete system, front or back, there's a good chance the hoses will need cutting.
    I actually enjoyed doing the bleeding, cutting the hoses etc etc and bought all the tackle needed.
    You cant miss at £24 though. Even Deore are more expensive. How good are Clarks brakes?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmonk3y View Post
    Bleeding brakes is a total faff. If you're after cheap riding, rather than performance, why not just buy some brand new hydraulic brakes? Can get some Clarks hydros including rotor for 24 quid from crc. They will be much better than your current setup. If you're really saving money then just replace the fronts, which is where most of the stopping power will be.
    Not that I'm tight(well I am) but that's £50- it would double the cost of the bike-

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    Not that I'm tight(well I am) but that's £50- it would double the cost of the bike-
    Hahaha you've got a point then. Do both front and back need doing??

  43. #43
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    Lewie,

    Yep youíve got old Shimano brakes.

    They are a bit of s pain to bleed solo, much easier with some assistance on hand.
    Hereís a reasonable vid of a solo bleed but as you can see heís swinging the calliper about and doesnít have the line taught and vertical which is a great way to get a poor bleed.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dFuwoEYvt_w

    Also lots of stories of Shimano on brakes becoming borked after bleeding, they are very sensitive to other mineral oils, so I wouldnít use anything other than pucker Shimano on mine and (touch wood) no issues.

    Have fun!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Lewie,

    Yep youíve got old Shimano brakes.

    They are a bit of s pain to bleed solo, much easier with some assistance on hand.
    Hereís a reasonable vid of a solo bleed but as you can see heís swinging the calliper about and doesnít have the line taught and vertical which is a great way to get a poor bleed.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dFuwoEYvt_w

    Also lots of stories of Shimano on brakes becoming borked after bleeding, they are very sensitive to other mineral oils, so I wouldnít use anything other than pucker Shimano on mine and (touch wood) no issues.

    Have fun!
    Thanks Iíd saved that one and it look quite Ďeasyí
    I will rope my dad in to assist with the bleeding and yes the kit I ordered stated proper Shimano mineral oil
    Thank all for your help and advice
    Would the pads have any marking (in case I need to buy some)

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD200 View Post
    if you buy the complete system, front or back, there's a good chance the hoses will need cutting.
    I actually enjoyed doing the bleeding, cutting the hoses etc etc and bought all the tackle needed.
    You cant miss at £24 though. Even Deore are more expensive. How good are Clarks brakes?
    They are the budget option but can still easily cope with trail centres.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmonk3y View Post
    They are the budget option but can still easily cope with trail centres.
    What's the modulation like? The Deore's lack reach adjustment but i like them

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RD200; 7th February 2019 at 20:34.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    Thanks Iíd saved that one and it look quite Ďeasyí
    I will rope my dad in to assist with the bleeding and yes the kit I ordered stated proper Shimano mineral oil
    Thank all for your help and advice
    Would the pads have any marking (in case I need to buy some)
    The pads are all different shapes and sizes and I'd be staggered if Shimano have maintained the same pads over the years... in fact I know they haven't.

    The easiest thing to do is to take the old pads out and use something like the Pad Identifier on the Superstar Components website to check you're ordering the right ones. Their pads aren't bad either, and not too pricey.

    Superstar Pad Identifier

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD200 View Post
    What's the modulation like? The Deore's lack reach adjustment but i like them

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk
    I'd say most if not all modern hydraulics have good modulation. Gone are the days when it was either on or off! But if you are choosing between this and Deore, I would choose Deore. The m615s that I own are bulletproof.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmonk3y View Post
    I'd say most if not all modern hydraulics have good modulation. Gone are the days when it was either on or off! But if you are choosing between this and Deore, I would choose Deore. The m615s that I own are bulletproof.
    I had a pair of Hayes that were either on or off, nothing in between.
    The best I've had were Hope mono minis that i never had to bleed.
    For the money though, as you say Deore's are superb. In fact give me Deore anything over XT.

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RD200 View Post
    I had a pair of Hayes that were either on or off, nothing in between.
    The best I've had were Hope mono minis that i never had to bleed.
    For the money though, as you say Deore's are superb. In fact give me Deore anything over XT.

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

    I've always found Shimano a little more 'on or off' than others, particularly XT. SRAM brakes are now excellent - so much better than the Avids they're loosely derived from.
    That said, out of choice I'd always go Hope. Stupidly easy to fit and bleed, loads of adjustment, work as well as anything plus practically future-proof. Almost everything on them can be repaired or replaced - however old they are. As Hope machine all their own parts, if they don't have a spare in stock, they'll machine it for you - however old the brakes are. They are a little more expensive but you can keep them going a lot longer.

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