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I hope others will have a more positive outlook but in my experience it would be throwing good money after bad. So called ‘tradesmen’ like this rarely have any assets (on paper at least).
Chaps, can anyone give me some advice about rendering and taking a renderer to court, please?
In 2018 I contracted someone who specialises in rendering to remove and replace the render on my house which isn’t listed but is in a conservation area and also he was contracted to remove the old paint on the front and replace it with modern breathable paint- this was to be done with a wire brush and is in the quote. The rendering was a moderately sized job as the house is only part rendered- three squares at the front of the property under the downstairs windows and half of the side elevations at opposite ends of the house- one elevation having an angle above some of the lower roofline. The job started in May 2018 and supposed to last for approximately five weeks. By mid July the job still wasn’t completed and during that time the actual contractor never showed but different guys turned up to do the job and towards the end of June & into July I called the contractor to let him know I wasn’t happy with how things were going.
At the time I worked for the NHS and the department was chronically understaffed and the staff we did have were going sick left right and centre due to stress. I was barred from taking annual leave (I was covering their roles to keep the service going) which meant I couldn’t be on site.
The contractor has always stated he only works from April to October due to how weather affects his job. He also stated (but not put it in writing) his render should last from 15 – 20 years and gives a five year guarantee. I usually park my car next to the house and noticed render had come away from the top of the house in late 2018 as it was on the bonnet of my car. I contacted him and he visited in January 2019 and said he will make good but only from April. Despite many attempts contacting him (by phone) he never returned. In late 2019 some of the render on the angled side elevation (opposite end of the house) was completely blown. Cracks have also appeared over the remaining render and are increasing. Again I contacted him in late 2019 and was clear I was not happy.
He did a site visit in January 2020 but again stated he only starts work from April and he stated he will make good.
I heard nothing and emailed him in March and he stated he will start shortly after but then COVID hit and I heard nothing from him and I left it. I pursued the matter again in June and he suggested a three day work schedule with scaffold etc to make good the faults all at his cost. He turned up with a ladder part repaired some of the worst render and left without telling me. Later that day I called him and he said that’s all he was going to do. I strongly challenged this (not swearing) and he stated he’s gone above and beyond and that’s it. Since then I’ve had three tradesmen look at it- two were roofers who also render and one specialised in plastering/rendering only. All used colourful language to describe the standard of work (see why in my point below).
I feel this is going to the small claims court and my correspondence is being met with hostility and now a bizarre case of racism (he’s white and the people that turned up were white). I’ve quoted Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 Part 2 (section13) "Implied term about care and skill. In a contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill" and I've asked for a refund. I've also stated he's in breach of contract due to the damaged brickwork.
• He admitted he used an angle grinder to remove the paint -the result being a lot of brick detail has been removed (window
arches etc)
• He stated to me in a phone call a month ago the area where the render is blown he attached batons against the wall, covered
that with a sheet, secured the sheet using metal mesh and applied the render to that. The three trades that inspected it stated
they’ve never seen that before.
• If you rub the repairs with your finger the render falls away leaving sand/grit on your hand or on the floor. Tap it with your
finger and it sounds hollow.
I believe I have a case, has anyone got any experience of taking a tradesman to court or can suggest previous cases/law/consumer law for me to use?
Many thanks reading this far and for any comments.
Last edited by Tony-GB; 7th September 2020 at 08:16.
I hope others will have a more positive outlook but in my experience it would be throwing good money after bad. So called ‘tradesmen’ like this rarely have any assets (on paper at least).
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Superfast reply- thanks. I have considered this but really can't let this matter go. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night! I used him because someone in the village highly recommended him.Originally Posted by oldoakknives
Sounds like a pretty straightforward case, you will need to get a couple of written reports from other builders and write a clear timeline of events, get him to say in writing he won't come back to rectify any more ( you have to and have given him an opportunity to do so, then I would say unfortunately get someone else in to do it properly and have the claims case go on in the background.
Cheers..
Jase
I know how you feel having experience of ‘tradesmen’ who are anything but. I hope it’s worthwhile pursuing.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Thanks for the reply. He's stated in writing (email) he's not returning and added a racism slur among other allegations and wants the names and addresses of the three tradesmen that viewed his works. I suspect I'll need a professional report which will test the mix of the render.
Given what you’ve said about the quality of the work and their attitude I don’t think you should be progressing an option whereby they return and do the work properly- it won’t be.
If you paid for work that wasn’t performed or is not of acceptable/ safe quality then you may have a case.
Any case would require an expert assessment. Builders are not keen to take on other builders issues. May be worth paying for a survey and then asking your lawyer to outline your case and then go the small claims route.
Again, depends on what you want. If a refund they may appear to have no assets which means court action to recover the monies.
I think the references to racist comment detracts from the issue. I’m not saying you should accept it, but the issue is the building quality not the builder being a nasty piece of work. Your case is the quality of the work which will be measured against what was agreed and delivered. The racist comment juts means the relationship has broken down and therefor eliminates the option for them to make good.
Last edited by joe narvey; 7th September 2020 at 09:10.
No experience of this but if under £10k then small claims court is an option, I’d also suggest checking your home insurance for legal cover and check with them on the best way forward.
Obviously you need to keep interactions with this chap confined to letter, email or text from this poin.
Good luck.
I'm sure this isn't want you want to hear and I fully appreciate that it isn't in line with your principles, but I would get on with the work using someone else and not persue the original tradesman.
You don't want him back, but he could effectively thwart a Court claim by offering to come and 'fix things'. Given his previous work - and his attitude - I wouldn't want him anywhere near my property now.
Sometimes in life it's better to just 'move on' even if you've been wronged.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Thanks. I've been pursuing him to make good the initial render repair since late 2018 and now a second one which he half repaired recently and hasn't touched the first repair. I'm pursuing the matter myself to minimise costs.
Thanks for the advice re home insurance. Much appreciated.
This is IMHO the best way forward, small claims court will want everything in chronological order, they will want to see that you have at least two independent reports, they will also want to see that you've made an attempt at resolution prior to the hearing.
My concern is the defendants financial status, is he a legit company, does he have insurance, sounds like he 'subcontracted' the work, if he is as you describe I suspect that you'll have no problem winning the case - but getting restitution - he'll claim to have no money / assets, winning the case will be the easy part so your insurance company ought to be your first port of call.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
We had a room decorated about two years ago, fix coving which had very clear cracking and paint walls/ceiling.
We agreed for someone known to my partners family to do it. They came and went on random days and the end result was very poor.
Told the person, great thanks for doing this for us, paid up then promptly found another decorator to completely redo it.
Second job was excellent and matter closed. Haven’t thought about it since until now.
My advice is wash your hands of the tradesman, get someone else to redo the work and move on. Annoying, but you will be happier and don’t forget the first tradesman won’t get any recommendation based work from your job so is losing out.
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Given the racism accusation he will probably use it to try to become the victim.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Even reading your reply stings! : )
He's used plain English in an email to say he's never coming back and I have already given him multiple opportunities to correct rendering faults. I already moved on from the damaged brickwork but the render is getting worse. I can't get my head around leaving it. I don't know of any industry where there's little or no comback for work carried out.
He's white. I'm white. The different guys that turned up were white. It's a bizarre thing to state in writing.
Thank you.
I believe those who say "move on" are correct.
However, doing this means he will make new victims.
I would get photographic evidence, reports, render analysis, the lot.
I would then use a proper company to redo the work. All this while involving your home insurance, if possible.
I will then pursue him for a refund, that he may or may not pay: you have given him ample time and opportunities to rectify his mistakes, and whatever he did was botched. This must appear clearly.
I don't understand the racism part, unless maybe he is a traveller.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Thank you.
With something like this there are so many possible scenarios. Having been in business for 27 years and also owning investment properties I've come across so many stories.
Firstly, I feel your pain. From your post I get what's happened and why you want it sorted. There are some very dodgy trades people out there who quite frankly just rip off people. There's also some very skilled and decent ones. Same in all professions.
Secondly, if it were me I'd write to him stating that you intend to pursue this further through the court system. Detail all your points and reference any written contact from him. I guess the more professional letter that you construct, the more he is likely to think that this won't just go away. That to me may be your best bet.
Thirdly, consider the court system. I've known of cases where justice has prevailed. I've also known of a similar case where a friend of mine (a plumber) had everything on his side, including independent witnesses backing up his case and professional experts all on his side and he still lost. The person he was taking to court had done this to other trades people numerous times before it turned out, clearly new the score and just somehow got the judge on his side. I've also known of someone winning and getting awarded something silly like 50p a week because 'they had no money'. I don't think they ever even got a single payment.
Fourthly, consider your well being and dare I say it, mental health. This has gone on for 2 years now, how much of your life will this continue to consume? Would it be easier to just get someone else repair it and move on? Without knowing the cost, it's hard to say of course.
Finally what do you want to get out of this exactly? Lets say he offers to repair everything and a judge thinks that reasonable - do you want him back working on your home? Or he loses and has to pay you back, do you know he can even afford to?
My post probably appears to be telling you to walk away, it's not. I'm telling you to look at all the reasons to not go further first. If you can deal with them, live with them and think it's worth it, then go for it.
How much did you pay for the whole job? I would put the money to someone to get it fixed to a good standard and go back to enjoying life.
Lifes too short plus Karma will get him.
Personally I wouldn’t want them anywhere near my property if the relationship has broken down. If they had the skill to do it correctly perhaps they would have done in the first place.
May be worth a check with trading standards as they may know the person and be able to help.
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Another vote for 'move on'
You'll cause yourself much more aggro, maybe win the case, and get awarded £5 a week until the balance is paid off (never)
Move on.
I agree that it's not a nice thought for someone to get away with it, but that's life.
Is he a 'Traveller' ? There must be a reason he thinks it's a defence.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
In a small claim court they simply will not care and depending on how he's worded it will make him look less than credible.
Really? I would be surprised if he used it as part of his defence that they didn't consider it. Why would they 'not care'?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Good luck with your quest to get some cashback. I suspect his other workers were perhaps cash in hand helpers who won't really have done a decent job from the word go. Be interesting if he has records of payment to them and any tax paid if applicable.
Get it lopped off and get a good contractor to put on some new K render or equivalent
Never have to worry about it ever again.
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Thanks so much for such a detailed reply. I feel I need to pursue it because as more cracks are appearing, I'm told they'll let moisture in and that'll freeze, blowing the render eventually leading to more hassle and cost. I don't want him back to be honest. I want my money back so I can then get the rendering done correctly.
I paid 10.5K
Good advice- thanks.
Cheers.
He's not a traveller. Would never have used him. He came highly recommended by someone in the village who has built and manages the tradesmans website. We weren't aware of this at the time.
Thanks.
Have you had any quotes for a professional to put it right? That would play a part in the next steps for me - guess its all relative.
What did the person who recommended him have to say?
Isn't that above the SCC?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I've not mentioned it because I'm sure they'll defend him.
- - - Updated - - -
Forgive my ignorance but whats SCC? We paid a couple of days after the job was completed.
Small Claims Court
Just looked it up:
Claim amount Paper form fee Online claim fee
Up to £300 £35 £25
£300.01 to £500 £50 £35
£500.01 to £1,000 £70 £60
£1,000.01 to £1,500 £80 £70
£1,500.01 to £3,000 £115 £105
£3,000.01 to £5,000 £205 £185
£5,000.01 to £10,000 £455 £410
£10,000.01 to £100,000 5% of the claim 4.5% of the claim
£100,000.01 to £200,000 5% of the claim You cannot make a claim online
More than £200,000 £10,000 You cannot make a claim online
I can't give advice on the SCC but I had a dispute with a builder that dragged on for two years - as far as I was concerned I was around 3K out of pocket due to their incompetence but their view was they had done what they needed to do. Prolonged email communication was really winding me up and in the end my wife told me to forget it - it rankled to drop it but I felt much better for doing so (and like another contributor, I had forgotten about it until I read the thread). Clearly 10.5K is a bigger hit. One way or another I hope you get your wall sorted and peace of mind restored. ATB Jon
Thanks Jon.
UPDATE: I spoke to a nearby property developer who kindly visited my house to view the works. He stated it's a poor job and stated the damage to the brickworks at the front was "absolutely shocking" and he was more concerned with that. He told me over the decades he's taken a few trades to court and advised it's not worth it. One scenario he gave was he took a trade to court for an 8K job. It cost him 55K in legal fees over a five year period and was awarded 23K.
I think I'll move on and put this down to experience. Thank you all so much for your input. It's very much appreciated.
You're welcome.
Might not have been what you wanted to hear, but at least you can get closure on this now. Hope all goes well getting it corrected.
I really feel for you having to do that, especially losing that amount of money, but really it's worth it to get the idiot out of your life and get on. Have had a similar experience in the past and it is the best move. Hope you can get it sorted for a reasonable cost.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I wouldn't give up immediately. Also have a look at Consumer Rights Act 2015 - you have a "right to repair" and it is within a reasonable time frame and without inconvenience to you otherwise you can seek damages to get the job done by someone else.
You probably do need to let him try to fix it, but if he isn't helpful you can seek damages via the courts.
Claim will be cost to put it right not what you paid for the work.
Waste of time. He won’t fix it any better than it was done in the first place. Just means more cash in hand subbies making a pigs ear of it again. And seeking damages from someone whose assets probably amount to a trowel and a shovel would be a waste of a lot of time and money.
And chasing him through the courts means paying the costs upfront which you’ll probably never recover.
That’s why chancers like that are getting away with it all over the country.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Sorry to hear this, render needs to follow a set routine based on mix, drying times and weather when applying, if it’s just slapped on generally it doesn’t bond, water gets behind and well you can guess what happens next!
I was recently chatting with a guy who has had builders refurb his house and added basement, balconies etc and it looks a great job, but the first builder he instructed ran off with £80k, I was gobsmacked when he said he couldn’t pursue him as he’d gambled it all away and never had a penny to his name!
Thanks for all the additional comments.
That 80K loss would make me hire a hit man!
That'd cost you at least another 10 grand tho...
Totally worth it
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Have you confirmed that your home insurance legal cover doesn’t cover this yet?
I wouldn't let those figures bother you. They are for a full court case. Others have referred to the "small claims court", which is now called Moneyclaim Online - https://www.gov.uk/make-money-claim - the fees are much more reasonable (eg £410 for a £10k claim).
I also wouldn't employ any solicitor, the system is geared up for you to DIY and as long as you can show you have been reasonable, your case will proceed. The biggest issue, as others have said, is actually getting the money. I have used the system a couple of times (unpaid rent) and won. But never actually got any money out of the defendants. The council court bailiffs are crap (nothing like the private ones on TV). You are not allowed to use private bailiffs on a moneyclaim. The best you can hope for is the guy will get a CCJ for non payment.
See if you can find a decent builder to come and do the job properly. Whereabouts in the country are you? I have a couple of good contacts in the Cotswolds.
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