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Thread: Watch prices - Collecting - whatever

  1. #1
    Master
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    Watch prices - Collecting - whatever

    I have only been a member on here for a few years, maybe 7 or 8 - but I have always been interested in watches, film cameras, photography, etc.

    Prices of even mediocre watches are now at silly levels, even older Omega: and Rolex prices are now out of the reach of most collectors

    takes me back to my 1954 MGTF - bought for £4k - restored, with a lot of hard work - shot up to £30k at peak,(never ever worth it!!!), - then back down to £15k, (maybe 15 years ago), when I sold it to a mate who still has it

    But my question is, if you are a normal person and interested in watches, what do you now collect? - I tried Enicar a couple of years ago - but to be honest (the boat had already sealed to quote the usual), and what you get these days for £1k is not very much

    the last watch I bought was a Seiko SKX007 - I think I'll buy another and just mod it to look like one of those mega expensive multi-coloured Rolex's, (£150 for the watch + £70 for the bezel, hands and glass), which are now selling for £10k to £20k, name your figure

    Has the watch world gone mad, is it in for fall????
    Last edited by BillN; 15th January 2019 at 00:09.

  2. #2
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    I agree to some extent, certain Rolex and Omega models have gone silly, but there’s still value to be found if you look for it. Second-hand TAG and Zenith are better value, and parts availability is far better. Looking at vintage watches, there are still plenty of reasonably-priced Omegas out there too. Vintage Longines and Tissot can be had for modest money considering the quality they offer.

    Gold vintage watches are still good value too, especially 9ct.

  3. #3
    Master
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    another "silly"question

    which watch - safe queen or one to wear

    £250 or £12k




  4. #4
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    another "silly"question

    which watch - safe queen or one to wear

    £250 or £12k



    The one with the date wheel that doesn’t look weird . What’s going on there?

  5. #5
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Watch prices - Collecting - whatever

    I like the cheaper end watches and have a few sat with some mid range price watches but also have a couple in the £4/5k range, but one thing I will not do is mod a cheaper watch to look like an expensive watch, I mean what are you trying to achieve by doing this, is it to give people the idea it’s a BLNR at 10 yards or is it because you like the BLNR but can’t afford it?
    In my eyes the Seiko in your picture would look far better as a Seiko and not a Rolex looky like, a micro brand making homage style watches is understandable but I think these can go to far at times and be so close to the original it’s almost faking it, maybe it’s just me but in recent years I have totally moved away from mods and homages and prefer the real McCoy even if I’ll never get to own one due to the price..



    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  6. #6
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    Collect whatever makes you feel happy. A hobby doesn’t have to be an investment or focus on the potential resale value. Although it helps! To fund more purchases.

    In the last 10 years I have have had countless omegas, tags and oris which I have picked up on the ‘cheap’ with a view to collecting. Putting them aside and seeing what happens. The truth is a sparingly wore any of them and actually felt they would be better with somebody that actually appreciated them.

    Now I will only buy watches that I will wear and enjoy.

  7. #7
    Journeyman
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    I’m all over the place with my collection, I collect like a squirrel crosses a road.
    I have a vintage collection that I’m most happy with. A new micro rotor costs a pretty penny today, but a vintage micro rotor is very affordable, vintage Omega and Longines are good purchases too. In house movements in some vintage watches allow me to have fun while picking and choosing while learning a great deal in the research I do before a purchase.
    My newer watches are an odd mixture, I like retro and vintage inspired watches and therefore don’t always go name brand for some purchases. I’m happy though and still going at it.

  8. #8
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89 View Post
    Collect whatever makes you feel happy. A hobby doesn’t have to be an investment or focus on the potential resale value. Although it helps! To fund more purchases.

    In the last 10 years I have have had countless omegas, tags and oris which I have picked up on the ‘cheap’ with a view to collecting. Putting them aside and seeing what happens. The truth is a sparingly wore any of them and actually felt they would be better with somebody that actually appreciated them.

    Now I will only buy watches that I will wear and enjoy.
    I have to agree with this.

    Buy a watch not because of what other's think of it, but because it appeals to you for some reason (whether historic, its movement, its complications, what you want to use it for, you just like its looks etc).

    But definitely - watches should be worn and enjoyed - so do rotate them 🙂

  9. #9
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Watch prices - Collecting - whatever

    From a wide and varied collection I’ve ended in a place where I have 2 brands dominating my collection - 7 Steinharts and 7 Tudor’s and to keep my need for uniformity happy there are 7 “others”.
    Last edited by RustyBin5; 15th January 2019 at 10:17.

  10. #10
    Master mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svaglic View Post
    I collect like a squirrel crosses a road.
    Brilliant comment. Made me laugh...

    Simon

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft View Post
    Brilliant comment. Made me laugh...

    Simon
    Was about to comment the same. Very funny! Never heard the expression before.

    As to the OP's comment that there's not much value even at 1k, I'm really not sure that's true at all. There's fantastic quality, value and fun to be had below 1k. The advent of micro-brands producing great stuff in this price range has been the highlight of the last decade imo.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    another "silly"question

    which watch - safe queen or one to wear

    £250 or £12k
    Happy to sell you my BLNR for £12k. Don't think they're quite at that level yet..

    With a couple of exceptions, for the ten or so years I've been a member here I've always felt a year or two behind the curve. I've never paid over rrp for a current model, but often by the time a particular watch is on my radar it's already sold out and selling at a premium. EZM1; 16610LV to name a couple.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcleminson View Post
    Happy to sell you my BLNR for £12k. Don't think they're quite at that level yet..

    With a couple of exceptions, for the ten or so years I've been a member here I've always felt a year or two behind the curve. I've never paid over rrp for a current model, but often by the time a particular watch is on my radar it's already sold out and selling at a premium. EZM1; 16610LV to name a couple.
    haha that's very much how I feel. Always a little too late to the party just to cause maximum annoyance to myself!

  14. #14
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    OP: But my question is, if you are a normal person and interested in watches, what do you now collect?
    Well I don’t think normal people are interested in watches. Anyway, as I’m still here I still collect watches that I can afford.

    I buy watches to wear, be it a Patek 5146J or Casio gulfman or Zenith Defy 21. I try and buy below MRP (NOS or second hand), but I did buy a SD43 recently above MRP off the forum but not too much (I feel). I inject a little cash in per year but it is now a self funding hobby, I sell what I am not wearing to buy something I fancy (the 5146J will never be sold though).
    Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 15th January 2019 at 10:39.

  15. #15
    I guess I'm glad I started collecting a few years ago, when prices were generally lower in relative terms and I have a number of watches currently worth a good deal more than I paid for them.

    Like Martyn, I'm trying to make this a more or less self funding hobby.

    Whether there will be any significant price correction (new and s/h prices) as the global economy deteriorates, I somehow doubt, but you never know.

    I think the main thing is to spend only what you can genuinely afford.
    Last edited by andy tims; 15th January 2019 at 13:25.
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  16. #16
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    But my question is, if you are a normal person and interested in watches, what do you now collect? - I tried Enicar a couple of years ago - but to be honest (the boat had already sealed to quote the usual), and what you get these days for £1k is not very much
    In 2017-18 I sold five mechanical watches, all of which were good quality and interesting, all of which I had enjoyed owning and wearing, and all of which were in a condition to make them appealing to a serious collector. The average price I got for them was £282.

    Something else they had in common was that they all had light dials and leather straps. Hanging around on watch forums has dragged my previous interesting tastes towards the prevailing fashion: black dial; bracelet.

    If you're going to have the same tastes as the people who follow the general fashion and have oodles of cash, you can't be surprised at having the shell out.

    There is a steady flow of lovely though unfashionable golden era watches appearing on SC for very little money. An enthusiastic collector who can resist trends would be having a whale of a time. Yesterday there was a beautiful Zenith posted for about £300 iirc.

  17. #17
    Master
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    Thanks for all your replies - some really useful comments and opinions, which I hoped would come through, very helpful for me.

    I have had some time on my hands recently, plus a small cash pot that I want to spend on watches - I've been retired for some time and I like to read as much as I can about any watch that I fancy.

    This could be a contentious point, but anyway here goes - a few days ago I discovered the uTube channel "The Urban Gentry" - (not a great name IMHO) - but I felt the videos the guy produces are very good and he has covered many, many brands of watches - I realise that TGV, as he is referred to, is not universally popular, but as I said I thought his vids were very useful and informative.......... as he seems to cover many aspects of "watch collecting"
    Last edited by BillN; 15th January 2019 at 11:30.

  18. #18
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    I would wear the BLNR. Wear and enjoy, wear and enjoy.

    HHGTTG. http://www.hhgproject.org/media/Share_and_Enjoy.mp3
    Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 15th January 2019 at 11:42.

  19. #19
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    I would wear the BLNR. Wear and enjoy, wear and enjoy
    Martyn ........The 2 watches above aren't mine - I just pulled the images off the web for a "what if"

    I have 3 Rolex which I bought some time ago
    - a 5513, I now only wear this around the house, friends for dinner, family occasions .......... not sure I will ever now sell it
    - a 16610 which I used to wear as my everyday, take on holiday etc., I now wear this "on rotation" and I have now decided not to take it on holiday, (S Africa last few years), and I have bought a Seiko SKX ...... I won't sell the 16610 as it was my first and favourite Rolex and it will get passed on
    - an Explorer 16570 - 3186, which I have now not worn for a few years, so it's in it's box hidden away

    I have a few "older" Omega's - I really like the Seamster 120 - Baby Ploprof, a Watch build on Mesh, which I bought off here a few years ago ... I was quite interested in the Omega brand a few years ago

    Gardening, working of the car - a CWC G10
    Last edited by BillN; 15th January 2019 at 11:55.

  20. #20
    I was discussing pricing with a fellow member recently. I think you first have to take a step back and think about the idea of collecting and classifying your watches. In that regard I defer to this article https://quillandpad.com/2014/07/15/w...ce-tourbillon/

    Now the article is talking about when you're getting 'serious' (the Vianney Halter watch itself is mental I should add.....), but I feel is applicable when you have a collection with multiple watches greater than £3k (an arbitrary number I've just chosen for me). By doing this, you gain more clarity on what to buy and if it is 'worth' buying. So there are 3 categories - Fun, Investment and Patronage. I've considered my own collection and feel it fits as follows:

    Fun - my G-shocks and a few 'higher' watches I bought because I primarily liked them and most importantly I did not think about retention (they are a Panerai 111 and an IWC Ingenieur.

    Investment - these are watches not buying for investment, but are predictable on secondary markets. Sports Rolex and some Pateks are the classic examples here.

    Patronage - watches you buy to support the owners/watchmakers with their vision. This is quite an interesting category as it is applicable on the so called lower end with so many micro brands. Personally I put Timefactors and my Ming watches in this category.

    There is a lot of self-subjectiveness in this, so in conclusion I'd say if what you want to buy does not fall in the above categories don't buy and simply enjoy what you have!

  21. #21
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Two thirds of my collection is sub £500. Lots of interesting and good quality stuff about – Seikos, Timefactors, Maen, Vostok, Mido, Stowa, Eterna, etc., etc., and I'm looking forward to receiving my Newmark 6BB chrono soon.

    I've been fortunate enough to secure the 'precious' Rolex Sub and Explorers a few years ago and wouldn't be able (or want) to pay the prices WatchFinder et al are asking now, but they've proved good investments, which wasn't the original intention.

    As for comparing the GMT to a modded Seiko 007 - it's a bit disingenuous don't you think? They both tell the time, but if you need to ask why one costs thousands more than the other, you're in the wrong hobby.

  22. #22
    Grand Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime
    They both tell the time, but if you need to ask why one costs thousands more than the other, you're in the wrong hobby.
    I would say prices were justified 5 years ago, not now. They are bloody ludicrous!

    The average "collector" is more likely to be an "investor" and the hobby for me is no longer the same.

  23. #23
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    The glory days of my collecting are behind me, back then, 13 years + ago I had no kids, decent work bonuses and prices were significantly lower, even relatively. My first vintage dive watch was a Ebay lovely Seiko 6309 that had over 20 bids with me the winner at £52, a £90 6105 and from Timezone a tritium dialled early 80s £500 Speedmaster, those were the days.
    Good news is I kept a lot of them, sold a few out of necessity ( house deposit ) and had a lot of fun on the way, times have changed though and I hardly buy these days and don't like to sell what I have, priorities have changed somewhat unless a real bargain comes along, Ive not seen a new watch I would like in years, vintage all the way for me.
    Last edited by JasonM; 15th January 2019 at 16:01.
    Cheers..
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  24. #24
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    I think what we're seeing is an attempt by some Swiss brands like Rolex, Omega, Panerai etc to position their mechanical watches as a top end/ultimate luxury where they are not. Hence we see an inane price hikes as well as market restrictive policies (limited production, tightening grip on the sales chain) designed to increase the watches perceived value, and while there are and always will be people with disposable income, looking at the flat economic growth rates and jittery markets IMO their numbers are in sharp decline in comparison with 4/5 years ago, so we are surely heading for market 'correction'. How severe and when - your guess is as good as mine, but it's coming.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  25. #25
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I've gone full circle, started by collecting smaller brands like Steinhart and Orient etc, progressed on to Rolex, Omega, PP, Blanpain et al. I have enjoyed the experience of trying out so many brands, but find myself now heading back to where I started. Most watches are under £500 for me these days, but it is not about the homage, but looking for rare and collectable versions of those watches. That probably doesn't make sense to most, but take the Steinhart Vintage Red for example, you can buy a brand new one easily from any main dealer, but try and find the first incarnation with the earlier caseback, acrylic crystal and polished bezel and that is a rare bird indeed.

  26. #26
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    I find Bulova are quite an interesting brand to collect - and relatively inexpensive as well. The Accutron Tuning Fork watches are always good fun. Lots of variety in the dials and case designs to stop you getting bored. The vintage automatics are also quite cool, and they even had a good "homage" range in the 80s/early 90s as well, imitating the Datejust, Day Date, Sub, and the Royal Oak. Some of the modern designs are also cool (Precisionist movements, curved chronograph movements) and the re-release of classic watches like the Lunar Pilot and the Devil Diver also helps to keep the interest level up.

    Here's my Bulova watchbox, all sourced in the last year: these have come in at under £200 per watch. Before anyone asks, the one that's a print out is a 1972 Golden Clipper "C" that I bought off US eBay and is currently at my uncle's house in Arizona :-)




    For the luxury brands, e.g. Omega, I like to look at their quartz pieces, which are invariably significantly cheaper than the automatic with similar design, especially if you go back a few iterations of watch catalogues. The Goldeneye Seamaster 300 divers and the first generation Aqua Terras are all nice watches at around £800-£1K for the quartz models.
    Last edited by 459GMB; 15th January 2019 at 17:52.

  27. #27
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    The glory days of my collecting are behind me, back then, 13 years + ago I had no kids, decent work bonuses and prices were significantly lower, even relatively.
    ...
    Neatly sums up my situation too, albeit my 'glory days' pale in comparison with most on here. Back then the Rolex premium still made me wince, but it was acceptable, while Omegas could almost be described as dirt cheap.

    I flogged the last of my Rolexes a while back though and don't find I miss them at all. Although I'd often vaguely thought it would be nice to have a Rolex, with hindsight I think I bought them primarily simply because I could and because I had time on my hands. Sticking to the <1k range nowadays, there's great variety and VFM as well as more fun to be had.

  28. #28
    Craftsman
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    Prices have gone insane.

    Take a Sinn 556. This is over 1k now on bracelet, 5 years ago it was literally half that.
    Seiko have killed their excellent value SARB line and now offer the new version of the Proxpex and Pressage lines but prices are much higher.
    Take the SARB033, about 350 euros last year, now discontinued. The replacement is the SARX033 or SARX055, but these are creaping up to and above 100 euros.

    Thats all relatively low end stuff, from what i hear its worse with high end like Rolex, where buyers are forced to buy other products along with the one you actually want.
    "Id like to buy that 10,000 pound watch plesase"
    "Of course, but you also have to buy this unpopular watch for 4,000, or we wont sell you the one you actually want".

    Insane.

  29. #29
    "But my question is, if you are a normal person and interested in watches, what do you now collect?"


    I think there are still a huge amount of watches within that bracket - but we are by and large talking about the increases in what are luxury items, and as such they are priced accordingly. If more people are able to pay the price of entry, then the brands will up the price.

    One issue for some brands (maybe most) is that they also make fairly unpopular models which languish in cabinet windows and take up retail space. Rolex are better than most in their supply chain, which in turn gives the impression of a lack of supply which itself is increasing some demand.

    Do I think Some brands are getting expensive - hell yes - but they are not that much more expensive in real terms than they were 10-20 years ago really. Some brands have been pushing more than others though, and Omega are guilty of introducing newer models, or newer materials for them and hiking the prices to levels that wouldn't have been considered previously. Thankfully you can still get a discount at times on their models.

    As alluded to above, discounts are available for most brands, so the high RRP's are not always indicative of as much price difference as the Good Ole days - 30% off Omega was not unheard of, now it's getting a little harder, but some members are still able to get great deals offered at times, and I have benefited from one of those saving around 30% off RRP in the last few months. I've also bought at similar and sometimes better discounts than that in recent sales. So... they are still lots of options if you are not solely interested in the current hot models.

    Swatch group have possibly spoilt things a little buy owning a number of previous prestige brands and pegged them at different price points - but otherwise we would probably be looking at lots of different brands at very very similar price points and that is partially why they were failing in the first place.

    One great buy I picked up was a Certina Ti watch, and I think it's really bloody nice - but I'd hardly call it a collectable.

    Caveat - for the collector looking elsewhere:

    Other watches / some current less popular Seiko divers / G-Shocks are always available for still sensible prices.


    It's just a matter of time...

  30. #30
    Craftsman meijlinder's Avatar
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    There's plenty of directions to take a watch collection if the collection aspect is important. Others have mentioned Seikos and even though some models have gone up in price as well, there's still fun things to find.

    Or why not venture into the world of Chinese watches (not the clones or fakes or blantant design rip-offs).


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