Reply With QuoteIf it's a Sellita then the movement is almost identical to the ETA anyway
As the title says, does the movement define the watch?
I was all set to buy a speedbird III tomorrow as I fancy a pilot watch, and read some great reviews based on the ETA movement. However from tomorrow there is a new movement, and therefore in my mind it's a different watch.. I'd understand if it was called the Speedbird IV or version 2.
Or maybe I'd being too pedantic?
If it's a Sellita then the movement is almost identical to the ETA anyway
I thought Sellita used to make the ETA's - but when Swatch decided to stop outsourcing things, Sellita started making their own and as the Copyright had run out on the ETA's could therefore use the design?
The rumour I heard was that Sellita actually had the better contacts - and their movement were actually better - but I don't know this for a fact.
However, I would not hesitate in buying a watch with a Sellita movement.
Would you buy a Daytona if it had/hadn't a Zenith movt? I understand the difference to some people but that watch is still COSC with the in house movt. What about a Valjoux movt present in so many watches? People like IWC used them but went in-house. For me it's the watch not the movt.
BTW, I just used the Speedbird as an example..it just got me thinking..
For me personally, the watch and the movement form part of the whole package - and at the end of the day its the whole package you buy.Originally Posted by mrushton
I bought a vintage Doxa Ultraspeed because it had a 36,000 bph movement in it - and none of my other watches did (which is still the case at the moment).
I think it's nice to have a collection of different movements - but at the same time I'd want ones that have some kind of 'quality' with them.
As I said in my earlier post, I don't see any detriment in the latest Speedbird having a Sellita movement instead of an ETA (in fact, as I have a number of ETA powered watches a Sellita movement actually appeals to me more). But at the same time - had it been fitted with a Seagull I wouldn't consider buying it at all - no matter if it was significantly cheaper.
(That's just my personal taste by the way - I'm sure Seagull are perfectly acceptable movements - but they just don't interest me).
So yes, a particular movement might put me off a watch - and it might make me more interested in a watch.
A watch would be useless without a movement - for a lot of watches movement do define the watch. But I think in earlier days where 2824 ETA etc the movement was almost subsidiary to the watch design.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 15th January 2019 at 11:25.
I often think about another Omega 2254 but I'd only want the automatic, not the quartz, despite the latter being cheaper.
I really want a blue Pelagos but AFAIK it only came with the in-house movement, which comes with Tudor/Rolex servicing costs. The ETA movement in the earlier (and AFAIK only in the two-liner black dial) Pelagos is something any competent watch repairer can service. Unfortunately I like the blue one but am unlikely to buy one because of the movement.
I don't like most Pateks but I could look at their movements all day long.
I have a couple of watches with Val.72 movements and they do feel more special than other movements. The noise for a start.
I also have a Grand Seiko Hi-Beat and it's another watch where the movement (noise and the way the seconds hand moves) makes it that bit more special.
In all honesty I don't really think about a watch's movement when I wear it, unless I notice it's running slow. I do when I set the time or wind it but not the rest of the time.
"A man of little significance"
My opinion (for what it's worth - pretty much zero) is, the watch is more than just a collection of parts. The movement is an important part, but just a collection of parts that go to make the whole. Having said that, and just to prove what a total ar-- I am, I love ETA movements, Sellita not so much. I have had one watch with a Sellita SW200 (the ETA 2824 clone) and it had problems and was returned for a refund. Therefore, my entire opinion of Sellita movements is coloured by that ONE experience.
Hardly fair is it, but there you go!
I have a Zenith with the 36000 movement and I am terrified of it! I know they are supposed to be harder to service and fewer people can do them so I don't wear it for fear of wearing it out, even though it's a fabulous watch and the timekeeping is exemplary.
I have a watch with the Seagull movement (well, one of the many versions they make) and it was superb: dead accurate to possibly a second per week, I would therefore have another like a shot, likewise Vostok, mine is as crude as a docker on a night out, but again, dead accurate and the noises and slight tick adds to the charm.
I own a Breitling with an ETA 2824, a Sinn with a Selita and an IWC with the Valjoux.
All keepers, but no desire to purchase further pieces with duplicate generic movements.
Recent purchase, and all future buys are more select with movement a major factor.
This definitely defines the watch the mighty Zenith Defy 21 with a 50Hz chronograph independent movement and standard El Primero 5Hz watch movement.
Total nutcase of a watch! I love it.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 15th January 2019 at 20:43.
Have to disagree with this philosophy. the ETA 2824, Sellita and Valjoux are excellent well -proven designs, easy to service, with no design faults or vices. OK, I could take issue with the Valjoux on a couple of points but whenever I’ve had one in pieces I’ve always been impressed by how well it runs following a bit of basic TLC.
Much of the owner’s experience is influenced/tainted by the care (or lack of) in assembly, adjustment and regulation. A bit like disliking a particular breed of dog because you met up with a nasty one.......that’s usually down to the owner and poor training.
There are certain movements I really dislike; Omega 1481, Lemania 5001, and some of the 60s AS stuff are top of my dislike list, but even these are OK if they get huge doses of TLC.
One movement I’m finally starting to like is the Zenith El Primero. Not the easiest to work on, I question the benefit of the high beat rate, they’re not the best auto winder because the mainspring’s huge, but the design philosophy was spot-on.
In 1969 NASA (not Omega ) landed a man on the moon who happened to be wearing an Omega watch.............. and Zenith launched the El Primero!
From a watch purist’s point of view which was most significant?..........I rest my case.
I'm not disputing the fact they are fine & reliable work horses, as I said the watches I named were bought with the movement very much in mind.
What I am saying is I wouldn't buy every incarnation of a Sinn U1 with the same SW200 motor. I would rather buy a quartz UX.
I did take a shine to the Sinn U121, and had they put say a Soprod in I may have been tempted - But the Sellita just makes it a big U1 to me.
And my opinion of the Sellita SW200 is it's an ETA with more jewels. The only thing that has changed is the Swatch group branding.
Selita 200 is indeed an ETA, with extra jewellng. I see that as an advantage, with Swatch/ETA’s strategy of restricting parts supply a Selita movement in place of ETA is a big plus.
I own several vintage Omegas with the same movements, it’s more about the watch itself than the movement to me.
Each to their own, people’s perception of a watch differs.
Has the distribution of Valjoux been affected by the Swatch group restriction - Not too sure of the connection or how it works to be honest?
This is getting quite existential. The identity of the watch could in the first instance be strongly related to the given name and how it looks from the outside, that is, how it is recognised. Identity is also related to the personality of the watch which then obviously, involves the movement. If the change of movement represents a change of specification or technical abilities then this changes the personality of the watch and perhaps justifies recognition of this change in the given name and perhaps even a change of outward design.
I am not familiar enough with the 2 movements in question but it sounds like they are similar enough not to warrant a change of identity or name. Just my 2penneth.
Let's take my IWC Chrono with the Valjoux movement. I opted for the 377710 because of it's beautiful bracelet and easy to maintain movement.
BUT, the day/date placement and 3 dial layout leaves me in no doubt what's inside. A quick shake close to your ear just confirms the same guts as a watch at 1/4 of the price.
The other option at the time was the Spitfire with in-house movement (with issues) 2 dial chrono, and a much higher price tag.
I know which one will end up being more desireable, but I know I made the right choice for me.
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