Trust you to blame Max for what was his team´s error.Originally Posted by Andyg
If anything Max responded very quickly by nót driving Bottas into the wall.
Valiant move by Max too to trý out of the tunnel.
Great result for Honda btw. and the fastest lap as a bonus.
It is always the drivers fault, that’s how it is. The penalty was far to lenient, someone else got 10seconds for trying to overtake.
The race was still a precession, any attempts at overtaking punished with damage.
Hamilton blocked well and god blessed his tyres
But knowing how difficult it is to overtake they could have stuck him on the hard compound anyway, rain or not. It was a poor decision that toto admitted to.
The poster said that he didn’t understand why they did it,
Last edited by adrianw; 26th May 2019 at 18:04.
I think they were banking on it being light rain and LH being able to drive through it on the mediums whilst the others, on hards, pitted for inters and then another set of slicks after that?
So much of F1 is data driven these days :-(
They didn't bank on it remaining dry and Max doing what he does best - hassle like mad!
All's well that ends well I guess.
Edit: Having had the luxury of time to think further about all of the permutations and potential eventualities re the top four (and the weather) - mediums were the tyre that Merc had to fit for LH. The decision was spot on.
Last edited by Mouse; 26th May 2019 at 18:19.
I was not referring to him being penalised. He was indeed lucky with 5 seconds: Maybe race strategy from race direction. Verstappen pressuring Hamilton was the only thing keeping a bit of tension in the parade.
Yep, me too....but...ZZzzzzzZzzzZzzzzzzzzzzz....
I'd agree on it not being his fault.
But the move on Lewis was foolish. He got that wrong, he was locking up and the only way past was through Hamilton.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
They weren't, not in that situation. You're leading at Monaco. It's impossible to overtake without an error/car fault. There's nothing to gain by not matching those behind you. They aren't getting past.
Mercedes got it wrong, partly because they couldn't know what the others were planning tyre wise. Putting Bottas on hards a lap later shows that.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
If they'd have put LH on hards then if MV and/or SV had gone onto mediums......and had it lightly rained, then Lewis could have been stuffed. By fitting mediums then Merc had both dry and wet scenarios covered - as you say, it's virtually impossible to overtake at Monaco and all LH had to do was maintain track position (I'm saying that as if threading an F1 car at 170mph through steel barriers, with MV up your backside is easy haha).
It left him vunerable. They assumed the others would fit mediums, and stop again. They got it wrong. The assumed the guys behind would play it aggressive/risky. The assumption was incorrect, so the call was incorrect.
I won't be surprised if they confirm as such when the debrief video is released.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
Verstappen gets penalty points for the collision with Bottas. Makes the lenient 5s penalty very difficult to understand.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
Toto has already said they got it wrong with Lewis’ tyre choice.
In hindsight, I agree, the hards were the tyre to have. But at the time, with the weather variable......I think they made the right choice. Could easily have gone the other way.
It worked out in the end.
Last edited by Mouse; 26th May 2019 at 19:56.
Anyone else watch the Indy 500, now that’s proper racing, and no penalties because the bloke in front defended his position
Just got back home from Monaco. Bloody fantastic for my first F1 race. Will post some pics tomorrow. Off to bed now. Knackered.
Cracking drive by Hamilton, to keep Verstappen behind him for 60 odd laps, reminiscent of Senna/Mansell at the same circuit but for much longer.
Thought the 5 sec penalty was very lenient, sure the initial mistake was by Red Bull but Max shouldn’t have put Bottas in the wall nevertheless. Drive through would have been more appropriate. He cost Bottas second place.
Would have been even better had McLaren stuck with an established partner: if they’d wanted to move from Andretti, surely Ganassi or Haas would have been a willing alternative with equally useful experience.
It was a mistake by the Macca management IMHO, and as a result we were denied another masterpiece of skill and learning from Alonso.
Maybe next year.
I agree, surely dangerous driving in the pit lane should warranty a stiffer penalty
It was not.
It was an unsafe release.
He/the team was dealt a 5 sec. penalty.
You think it too light? Tant pis. It at least kept a small bit of tension in the race.
..and mán, can that Hamilton keep moaning.
About those tyres.
It was at that moment not a bad choice. A good one even. It díd rain; just not enough. Also, because of the nature of the track, they had an almost failsafe; near impossible to overtake a more powerful car and it proved correct; Hamilton won so why moan? Because that is what he does when he cannot streak away into the distance with the fastest everything?? Mééééé.
The tactical error was imo to put Bottas on the same ones. If they take a calculated risc with the one car, go for the other option with the other car.
Time for the next fast charade, oops; parade.
The most significant of the race
It was not just Max Verstappen. Four Hondas in the top eight, fastest lap despite Mercedes having a go at that point ánd a fighting chance to cross the line first.
Mercedes is probably still some 40-50 horses ahead in qualifying mode so still beyond the worry zone, but Ferrari seems to be close and Renault well passed.
Bottas was on the hards
It doesn't matter wether it was the team or the driver at fault. 5s was far too lenient. Other drivers were more harshly penalised for lesser incidents.
The team may have released him, but they didn't drive into Bottas and force him into the barrier. Verstappen did. Yet another error that proves he's not ready to be a champion despite his obvious pace.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
It does seem that they were especially lenient with the marketing golden boy, event Brundle called it a slam dunk drive through.
‘Twas my first ever GP yesterday. We were seated right opposite the pit lane and everyone as shouting and screaming when it happened. Anyway, really enjoyed it, as did my son and the noise being practically on the track was deafening - gawd knows what it was like before they fitted the quieter exhausts!
Here was our view of the track and pits.
Slightly changing the subject onto watches, we visited the Monaco motor museum (really must brush up on my French as we paid and entered the Monaco.......stamp museum!) while we were there and apart from there being plenty of famous historic F1 cars on display, they also had plenty of historic Tag Heuer watches on display. Here’s just a few:
Count yourselves lucky as it is just about the only thing in which ´they´ seem to support a bit of rácing action.
By Jove he must be a godsend for Brit F1 fans as what would they have to moan about without him??!!
Brundle moaning is just another Brit moaning like the Great Moaner world champion.
The one who´s opinion actually coúnts is Bottas and he says ´It was dealt with, so OK. Period. Let´s move on.´
Moving ahéad; looking at the British GP, it is unlikely that Honda power can make it difficult for Mercedes power but it is nevertheless fun to ponder about it raining and Verstappen making a gutsy on the limit move to snatch victory from Hamilton.
Enjoy you day guys.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 27th May 2019 at 11:37.
My understanding is that Mercedes put Bottas on the mediums at the pit stop and when he had to come in again, after Verstappen put him in the wall, they put him on the hard tyres. Presumably, this was after they had seen both Red Bull and Ferrari put their drivers on hard tyres.
I think they just called it wrong re the mediums but Hamilton was the first driver into the pits sothey had no idea what the other teams were going to do.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but, at the end of the day, Hamilton made it work. He did sound very stressed though, no doubt thinking back to McLarens woeful decision in Shanghai in 2007 keeping him out on worn out tyres which effectively cost him the WDC in his rookie year.
Hamilton tends to wear his heart on his sleeve and we are never in doubt of how he feels. That’s just a characteristic of the man which in no way detracts from his racing performance as the best driver on the current grid and, in my opinion, the best driver I have ever seen in all the years I have been watching since the early 70’s.
Last edited by JeremyO; 27th May 2019 at 11:58.
How Mark Hughes saw the race, including his description and analysis of the Mercedes tyre choices, available here.
Er, it was, he hit Bottas and ruined his race.
That was my understanding too.
Vettel btw has an almost humoristic view on the pit lance incident and he had first row view.
He basically puts the ´blame´ with the to narrow pit lane, that the hoses are not compliable with that and bottom line is ok with the penalty.
Also worth mentioning that he gives the Racing Point mechanics a fát compliment. Good racing point!
I feel that MV should have got a drive through. Five secs penalty seemed an inconsistent, and very lenient, decision from the stewards. The pit lane in Monaco is indeed narrow and the crews are very close to the action, all the more reason not to have unsafe releases there.
Well, first of all it was the slower pit stop that was the ground cause.
Not much fault of the mechanics btw. as Bottas slowing down to give them time hardly gave them time, so one could argue that by not slowing a bit more Bottas created his own problem.
Secondly one could argue that it sáved his race because it gave him a free second chance to put him on hard tyres.
^^^ It would have been interesting to see VB on the mediums playing rear gunner for Lewis though. I wonder how long he'd have kept Max at bay :-)
Again; what would you lot have to talk about without it?!
Ah, I know; it would be a ´Let´s nail Leclerc´ fest for risky overtaking, taking one too many and then driving irresponsibly fast on a flat etcetera. How dáre he take risks in Monaco??!!
The track is an anachronism and the only thing making it worthwhile áre the guaranteed controversial incidents.
Max would have overtaken him and then there would have been controversy about thát.
Are you on drugs?
In club racing a driver would be fined for doing what Leclerc did, if he had driven back sensibly he may have finished the race and had several more overtaking opportunities
but then there would not have been a safety car, no pit incident, no Verstappen hounding Hamilton, an even more boring race.
True :-)
I just came across this truly wonderful little film (7 minutes) about the 1962 Monaco GP. It really shows what Monte Carlo is like. Safety level: IoM TT (i.e. shocking).
Thanks for sharing.
It also illustrates the main problem with F1 today; the width of the cars/tyres.
The current Mercedes F1 car is wider and longer than an S-class.
They are absolutely massive, and having seen them close up, could easily be much smaller.
I loved the aerial shots towards the end which conveyed a real sense of the scale and perspective. And talking of perspective I've just dug out the results for that particular race and done some quick back of an envelope calculations, bearing in mind that Lewis Hamilton won this year's GP in a time of 1:43:28.437 having completed 78 laps, giving an average speed of 93.78 mph.
In 1962 Bruce McLaren drove the then 100 lap race in 2:46:29.7, ie over an hour longer, at an average speed of 70.41 mph. Only four other drivers from the sixteen starters took the flag, the last being a full seven laps behind.
* Edited to correct for differing lap distances - 2019 = 2.074 miles, 1962 = 1.954.
Last edited by petethegeek; 29th May 2019 at 14:59. Reason: Corrections for 1962 lap time/distance.
and them being so massive makes that they need a awful lot of space for overtaking. Not just width but the lenght means that the car behind is that much further behind.
Also more length translates to more width throught tighter corners.
Together with the spoilers it makes for... well, less rácing. In Monaco it just about kills it.
It's weird. Schumi's 2004 car looks tiny next to an Exige, and like a go kart next to a Veyron. Regarding the clip, I assume he take so long to get past them because he can't get his tyres warm? I wonder how different Zandvoort is now?
This is computer generated / game! It did however remind me how much I miss the sound of the old engines.
Not quite an Exige, look up "Hennessey Venom" for the white car in the screen shot. It's quite a chunk wider and longer than the Lotus it started out life as, if everything is to scale it still makes the F1 car look small though.
I've just had a very quick look up of the 2004 Ferrari compared to 2019, this season's car appears to be over a meter longer tip to tip!
Keez, how did I not notice that?
Untill a few months ago the resident female drove the family car; a 4x4 station wagon with loads of space in the back; a proper loading dock.
The car measured 1.86 by 4.75 and it was a long car to park in parking garages: The recommended standard parking bay size in the UK is 2.4 metres (7.9 ft) wide by 4.8 metres (16 ft) long.
The 2019 F1 Merc is 2.00 x 5.73 and yes, it is not méant to fit in a parking garage but as a perspective it is rather illuminating that F1 has lost the plot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtNg51tAhJg
Last edited by Huertecilla; 29th May 2019 at 23:30.
the car that I just bought is 2007mm X 4546mm, I wont be taking it to Tesco
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
