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Thread: Formula 1 2019

  1. #1301
    6 drivers under investigation for DRS, this long after the race, I thought they had all this techonology! The stewards should be time limited, say they get five minutes to make s decision

  2. #1302
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    6 drivers under investigation for DRS, this long after the race, I thought they had all this techonology! The stewards should be time limited, say they get five minutes to make s decision
    Five minutes from when? I'd suggest once they have seen the available evidence. With the driver and team interviews that they've already completed for other infractions, they've probably only just go around to reviewing the data and video...which they have to do for 6 incidents and, I presume, give the drivers a chance to explain themselves.


    Update And then I found this on the BBC website:

    ...Ferrari's team principal Mattia Binotto is with the stewards, and it looks like there's a queue of drivers and team personnel awaiting the headmaster as there were some drivers who used DRS under one of the yellow flags...

    ...timed at 20:35.
    Last edited by PickleB; 17th November 2019 at 21:43.

  3. #1303
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Five minutes from when? I'd suggest once they have seen the available evidence. With the driver and team interviews that they've already completed for other infractions, they've probably only just go around to reviewing the data and video...which they have to do for 6 incidents and, I presume, give the drivers a chance to explain themselves.
    From the end of the race, spectators and even drivers have gone home not knowing the result of the race,

  4. #1304
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    However before getting into the nitty gritty, well done to MV for his win - an excellent drive. Such a shame he had spoilt it with his "Lewis not slowing down enough under yellows" whinge, which just made him sound like a little bitch. You would have thought he might have learnt his lesson - clearly not.
    At that point in the race, interesting info for his crew. It could be useful for the team. After all, he found out himself how important it is to lift under yellow, a few weeks back! At that level, every detail to ensure that your opponent doesn't have a chance to win, is used.

  5. #1305
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    From the end of the race, spectators and even drivers have gone home not knowing the result of the race,
    Desirable, but probably not achievable, IMO. Even the regs say "The official classification will be published after the race. It will be the only valid result...".

  6. #1306
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Desirable, but probably not achievable, IMO. Even the regs say "The official classification will be published after the race. It will be the only valid result...".
    They have all of the data in real time it really isn’t difficult for them, gps track position with three metre resolution, DRS activation telemetry, plus various transponders, this one really isn’t difficult for them, of course there is the politically sensitive decision regarding the order that they look at things, especially the ban for SV

  7. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    They have all of the data in real time it really isn’t difficult for them, gps track position with three metre resolution, DRS activation telemetry, plus various transponders, this one really isn’t difficult for them, of course there is the politically sensitive decision regarding the order that they look at things, especially the ban for SV
    There must be a case for speeding up the process with assistants to review and present the data in a condensed form...maybe they do that already? I say that as they're getting faster...5s penalty for Hulkenberg and none for Sainz (according to the BBC).


    Edit Preceded by 'No further action' as regards Vettel and Leclerc.
    Last edited by PickleB; 17th November 2019 at 22:12.

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    In fairness it wasn’t very exciting until they chucked in a safety car for no understandable reason, maybe they should throw one in at every race.
    Ever since the accident at Suzuka in which Jules Bianchi died, it is an automatic safety car if a crane is outside the barriers. They needed a crane to lift the Mercedes back behind the barriers.

  9. #1309
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    And I think that it would have been more reasonable for Vettel to have moved over and allowed Leclerc on his fresher tyres to have a go at Albon in time to grab a podium place. But then they are racing drivers...

    In which case it might have been more reasonable for Vettel simply not to attempt the overtake in the first place and avoided all this. Or perhaps it might have been reasonable for CLC to have waited until be given his orders to pass SV before going on his attack.

    All very interesting, however SV was just about to complete his "overtake" of CLC when the incident happened, so for that millisecond he was actually faster. The clue is in the word overtake.

    I imagine SV will get the "blame", but CLC has some responsibility because he must have seen SV in his mirrors and should make sure he gave him room.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  10. #1310
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Lee View Post
    Ever since the accident at Suzuka in which Jules Bianchi died, it is an automatic safety car if a crane is outside the barriers. They needed a crane to lift the Mercedes back behind the barriers.
    Except bottas made a point of parking it right by a gap and all the marshals had to do was push it back ten feet

  11. #1311
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Except bottas made a point of parking it right by a gap and all the marshals had to do was push it back ten feet
    There was a brief clip showing them trying to push it back. It looked like they couldn’t so had to get the crane out.

  12. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    but CLC has some responsibility because he must have seen SV in his mirrors and should make sure he gave him room.
    Rubbish. The accident was Sebs fault and Seb alone. LeClerc left him plenty of room

  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Rubbish. The accident was Sebs fault and Seb alone. LeClerc left him plenty of room
    Yes and no, why did CLC overtake him in the first placev

  14. #1314
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Yes and no, why did CLC overtake him in the first placev
    Perhaps because that's in a racer's blood, perhaps no team orders, perhaps because he felt that he had the right to do so because he was given a clear path overtaking VET under team orders earlier this year. Who knows. When the dust has settled and it becomes clear that there were no team orders, it would be another fail of the team's structure and organisation.

    M

  15. #1315
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Yes and no, why did CLC overtake him in the first placev
    LeClerc was on much fresher tyres than Seb, why wouldn’t he overtake given the opportunity?

  16. #1316
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    Formula 1 2019

    Double post

  17. #1317
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Rubbish. The accident was Sebs fault and Seb alone. LeClerc left him plenty of room
    Clearly it wasn't enough room, was it.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  18. #1318
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Yes and no, why did CLC overtake him in the first placev
    Because they were racing. And he managed it cleanly.

    As for Vettel's manoeuvre...I think the BBC got it about right:

    18:37
    Two Ferraris collide

    Do not hit your team mate. Do not hit your team mate. Do not hit your team mate.

    Vettel bangs into Leclerc. Both have a puncture! What have they done?

    I couldn't see any steering input from Leclerc on the video while on the racing line and it was clear (to me at least) that Vettel was moving left trying to disrupt his progress. That is racing, but Vettel does have form...as they say.

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Because they were racing. And he managed it cleanly.

    As for Vettel's manoeuvre...I think the BBC got it about right:

    18:37
    Two Ferraris collide

    Do not hit your team mate. Do not hit your team mate. Do not hit your team mate.

    Vettel bangs into Leclerc. Both have a puncture! What have they done?

    I couldn't see any steering input from Leclerc on the video while on the racing line and it was clear (to me at least) that Vettel was moving left trying to disrupt his progress. That is racing, but Vettel does have form...as they say.
    You don’t race your team mate four laps from the end, especially knowing he has form for vibist defending, it was a dumb move and a pretty normal move over for Vettel

  20. #1320
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    You don’t race your team mate four laps from the end, especially knowing he has form for vibist defending, it was a dumb move and a pretty normal move over for Vettel
    So this is one 'dumb' overtake followed by 'a pretty normal move...for Vettel'?



    I might agree with the wording concerning the latter, but would question its execution if not the intent.
    Last edited by PickleB; 18th November 2019 at 13:17. Reason: remove embedded YT video and insert hyperlink

  21. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Clearly it wasn't enough room, was it.
    Are you for real Andy? Of course it was enough room. Watch the footage again. LeClerc drives straight having passed Seb, Seb then comes back past and veers into LeClerc.

  22. #1322
    It's a shame that we didn't see the different pre-safety car strategies unfold, though those safety cars sure did create a nail-biter.

    Gutted for Albon, chuffed for Verstappen, Gasly and Sainz, and another black mark against the 4-time DC that is Vettel.

    Given how well constructed and measured Leclerc's response was to questioning after the race I'm of the opinion that he's now fully aware that he has the measure of his "teammate".

    Got to hand it to the German though, at least he didn't do the old twirling of his finger this time around...

    https://youtu.be/JlxA2nEe0gM

  23. #1323
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Are you for real Andy? Of course it was enough room. Watch the footage again. LeClerc drives straight having passed Seb, Seb then comes back past and veers into LeClerc.
    Doh! clearly there wasn't enough room because both cars collided.

    I am not a fan of SV, however in this instances, CLC is just as culpable as SV, especially given the state of the race and that they were racing each other for a few points.

    It was however very funny.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  24. #1324
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    Clearly there wasn’t enough room in the Atlantic Ocean when the Titanic hit the iceberg.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  25. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Rubbish. The accident was Sebs fault and Seb alone. LeClerc left him plenty of room
    LeClerc has a cheek to complain. His chop on Norris was far worse.

    Vettel was always going to move left to cover being overtaken. Avoidable by both drivers, they effectively played chicken and neither yielded.

    I assume the telemetry showed that Vettel didn't turn into LeClerc, hence no penalty.

  26. #1326
    Master tiny73's Avatar
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    There's an onboard shot of CLC steering ever so slightly right as VET passes him. No idea if it was enough to guarantee a collision but neither of them looked like professional racing drivers yesterday.

    borrowed from another forum:



    And just to add, CLC's attempted chop on NOR should've been punished. Letting them race is a fine way of ensuring carnage when anything goes.
    Last edited by tiny73; 18th November 2019 at 11:50.

  27. #1327
    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post

    And just to add, CLC's attempted chop on NOR should've been punished. Letting them race is a fine way of ensuring carnage when anything goes.
    Let them race only seems to apply at convenient times, LH and AA both publicly said racing incident and took blame, but the stewards decided to punish LH.

  28. #1328
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    There's an onboard shot of CLC steering ever so slightly right as VET passes him. No idea if it was enough to guarantee a collision but neither of them looked like professional racing drivers yesterday.

    borrowed from another forum:

    image

    And just to add, CLC's attempted chop on NOR should've been punished. Letting them race is a fine way of ensuring carnage when anything goes.

    Against that pic I offer:



    ..and suggest that CLC was see-sawing on the wheel in the turbulence from the passing car.

    I think that this incident is what happens when:

    1. Ferrari don't issue team orders and let them race (didn't Red Bull have a similar problem?)

    2. racing ego #1 with a sense of entitlement meets racing ego #2 who refuses to be intimidated

    ...and that's why the stewards decided "both drivers had the opportunity avoid or mitigate the incident and therefore that neither driver is predominantly at fault".


    And yes, racing ego #2 is equally capable of moves like this as evidenced by his "attempted chop on NOR". I'm not sure at what point such intimidation breaches the rules. On current evidence I think is comes down to 'causing an accident' or 'not leaving a car width'.

  29. #1329
    Journeyman earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    ...well done to MV for his win - an excellent drive. Such a shame he had spoilt it with his "Lewis not slowing down enough under yellows" whinge, which just made him sound like a little bitch. ...
    Starting to hear a lot of complaints about Max's whiny truculence, perhaps it's slipped our collective memory what a sour piece of work Jos was in his day. Handy with his fists too...

  30. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    T Such a shame he had spoilt it with his "Lewis not slowing down enough under yellows" whinge, which just made him sound like a little bitch. You would have thought he might have learnt his lesson - clearly not.
    Had better things to do than even look up F1 in the media till now and for once I agree Andy.
    Max should have said nothing. This was just sour grapes; finger pointing whereas his own penalty for not lifting under yellow was entírely self inflicted by stupid arrogance.

    No, Jos did not slip my memory. Top notch a-hole.

    Congrats to Honda. They seems to be in the game now.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  31. #1331
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    I can remember a lot of top-notch drivers from year gone by with an iffy character flaw. Mansell, Senna (yes, he too), Schumacher, Hunt and even HAM was considered an a-hole in his early days. In the old days, they even ran eachother off the track on purpose if I remember correctly!

    At that level of competition, you'll do everything that's in your advantage to win. You don't even need an iffy character flaw for that. Taking notice of what's happening with your counterpart is one of these thing. Protesting afterwards is another situation. (Sometimes it's better not to protest). Had HAM finished befor VER, I am sure that there would have been a protest from RB regarding the lift/non lift under yellow.

    M

  32. #1332
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Starting to hear a lot of complaints about Max's whiny truculence, perhaps it's slipped our collective memory what a sour piece of work Jos was in his day. Handy with his fists too...
    I am hoping he will mature with age. Like a good cheese .

    As for his dad - a serial d*ckhead and I genuinely hope the fruit has fallen far from that particular tree. However Max's sense of entitlement would suggest otherwise.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  33. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    I can remember a lot of top-notch drivers from year gone by with an iffy character flaw.
    ...and that makes it any better?
    Imo behaving almost gentlemanly would make him thereforr stand out like a knight. Easy peasy you´d think.

    I am definitely nót with you in this.
    Yes, I can see that a-holes will score advantages where there aren´t really but in mý opinion it makes the wórse as drivers; it detracts from there positive merits.

    There are also positive examples, better at controlled response. Since F1 drivers are also role models I think the FIA should come down harder on the bad behaviour.

    Oh and those finger pointing at the two Ferrari drivers. Forgotten about the two Mercedes drivers taking eachother out?
    As to the individuals Vettel and Leclerc is should not need pointing out that the former should by by far the more responsible, mature. Much like my first observation he makes Leclerc look mature in comparison.

    All in all though I think the slight relaxing of the rules is having positive effects on the racing. Yes, it will take some time to find the right balance and then it will no doubt need another readjustment.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  34. #1334
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    ...and that makes it any better?
    Imo behaving almost gentlemanly would make him thereforr stand out like a knight. Easy peasy you´d think.

    I am definitely nót with you in this.
    Yes, I can see that a-holes will score advantages where there aren´t really but in mý opinion it makes the wórse as drivers; it detracts from there positive merits.

    There are also positive examples, better at controlled response. Since F1 drivers are also role models I think the FIA should come down harder on the bad behaviour.

    Oh and those finger pointing at the two Ferrari drivers. Forgotten about the two Mercedes drivers taking eachother out?
    As to the individuals Vettel and Leclerc is should not need pointing out that the former should by by far the more responsible, mature. Much like my first observation he makes Leclerc look mature in comparison.

    All in all though I think the slight relaxing of the rules is having positive effects on the racing. Yes, it will take some time to find the right balance and then it will no doubt need another readjustment.
    hem


    It's not making things better; I never said that. I'm only suggesting that this behaviour and attitude belongs to that sort of people. Fighter pilots are the same. Split-second decisions, observing all what's around them, processing it and filing it under 'advantage' or 'disadvantage' and then we hear their comments while they're busy performing something that's incredibly difficult. After that we, the spectators, take 1, 2 or even 3 days to comment on their oneliner during the race, while safely and comfortly sitting on the sofa with our feet up.

    Menno

    Furthermore: remembering that his father is a plonker (he's convicted for beating up his ex-wife and he's not convicted for beating up his dad - charges were dropped, so yes he's a plonker) doesn't say anything about his son. I suppose a lot of us here wouldn't be happy being compared with his father's mistakes...

    M
    Last edited by thieuster; 20th November 2019 at 14:50.

  35. #1335
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    ..

    Oh and those finger pointing at the two Ferrari drivers. Forgotten about the two Mercedes drivers taking eachother out?
    As to the individuals Vettel and Leclerc is should not need pointing out that the former should by by far the more responsible, mature. Much like my first observation he makes Leclerc look mature in comparison.
    But these two took each other out at the end of the race and threw away what they had, I think that CLC is flawed and not what he is hyped up to be, maybe he believes the hype, at that stage in the race he should have stayed away from SV and played safe.

  36. #1336
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I would agree with the above if they were in different teams. I completely disagree in the current line out.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  37. #1337
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    FIA have now sized parts of the Ferrari fuel system from Ferrari, a customer team and another competitor (for comparison?)

  38. #1338
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    FIA have now sized parts of the Ferrari fuel system from Ferrari, a customer team and another competitor (for comparison?)
    Wow. Do you have a link or source? Customer team being Alfa Romeo I presume?

  39. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Wow. Do you have a link or source? Customer team being Alfa Romeo I presume?
    Or Haas. Being widely reported now. Planet F1 have the story and link.

  40. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    FIA have now sized parts of the Ferrari fuel system from Ferrari, a customer team and another competitor (for comparison?)
    Wow. Do you have a link or source? Customer team being Alfa Romeo I presume?
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    Or Haas. Being widely reported now. Planet F1 have the story and link.
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-se...i-fuel-system/

  41. #1341
    I thought this is a nice video, McLaren are coming across as a happy team
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=dyAQj5ZGo58

  42. #1342
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Wow. Do you have a link or source? Customer team being Alfa Romeo I presume?
    Its the Sun, but here is a link

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/motor...-parts-seized/

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  43. #1343
    Clearly one of the other teams has made a specific allocation, the FIA wouldn't do this under their own steam

  44. #1344
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  45. #1345
    I think we could have all guessed that this was going to happen -

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/l...ssell/4603510/

    With the relative success that this season's rookies have achieved there'll be no doubt about Latifi wanting to emulate them.

  46. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    I think we could have all guessed that this was going to happen -

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/l...ssell/4603510/

    With the relative success that this season's rookies have achieved there'll be no doubt about Latifi wanting to emulate them.
    Another one with a rich Daddy, he even piled a heap of cash into McLaren to try to get his son a drive, I wonder how much he has paid Williams or if the car will have a new sponsor sticker on the side.

  47. #1347
    Master Lampoc's Avatar
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    Just what Formula 1 needs: another Canadian with limited talent and a loaded father.

  48. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampoc View Post
    Just what Formula 1 needs: another Canadian with limited talent and a loaded father.
    It´s what F1 has always had/been.
    What´s more, in the past it was dependent on it even more than today.
    And if we go back further still, it what started the whole lot; it is the basis of al racing; the überrich having someone design a stupid fast car and pit it against feloow überrich doing the same either driving themselves or a hired hand.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  49. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    It´s what F1 has always had/been.
    What´s more, in the past it was dependent on it even more than today.
    And if we go back further still, it what started the whole lot; it is the basis of al racing; the überrich having someone design a stupid fast car and pit it against feloow überrich doing the same either driving themselves or a hired hand.
    if it were about talent Nyck de Vries or even Hulkenberg would be in the seat, Latifi has never beaten any team mate or won a championship, except maybe this year, he beat his rookie team mate.

  50. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    if it were about talent Nyck de Vries or even Hulkenberg would be in the seat, Latifi has never beaten any team mate or won a championship, except maybe this year, he beat his rookie team mate.
    Agreed, but a seat in a Williams is a bit of a hospital pass right now, he'll be lucky to emerge from it with his reputation enhanced. Nico Hulkenberg, or someone with similar experience would be better for the team, they desperately need somebody who can drag them back up the food chain.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

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