Reply With QuoteHaven't heard any news today so didn't know about this.
Terrible. Poor lad having to see that.
Shocking news for the manhunt for the man responsible for stabbing to death a 51 year old Dad on a train in front of his 14 year old son.
Truly disgusting. I can see more anti-knife crime appeals coming and discussions but at the end of the day where is the deterrent in the first place.
Sent via smoke signal using Tapatalk
Haven't heard any news today so didn't know about this.
Terrible. Poor lad having to see that.
Par for the course these days, sadly.
Really shocking, I just don't understand/can't comprehend what would prompt those actions.
Traumatic for the son, now scarred for life. Hopefully the killer is caught, but unlikely that justice will be served.
As for being par for the course, knife crime does seem to be on the up, but I would not have said that about daytime killing in a busy public place such as this. Made me think of Luther when I read it (which I'm currently re-watching).
This is far from a busy place, once left Guildford this train slips into green belt pretty quickly (this is my daily commuter train) and at this time of the day would have been mostly empty. They do have cctv cameras on the train though so I hope they were a. working and b. able to capture an image of the suspect.Originally Posted by jukeboxs
A terrible incident and my thoughts are with the son.
Agree, terrible incident and my thoughts are with the son and family as well
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-46768203
Truly disgusting. I can see more anti-knife crime appeals coming and discussions but at the end of the day where is the deterrent in the first place.
Carrying a knife:-15 years.
Using a knife:-25 years
Killing/Injuring a person:- They die in prison,and take no notice of the do good brigade about their upbringing has caused it.......a person carrying a knife with the possibility to harm another person serves NO useful purpose to our society.
Carrying a knife:-15 years.
Using a knife:-25 years
Killing/Injuring a person:- They die in prison,and take no notice of the do good brigade about their upbringing has caused it.......a person carrying a knife with the possibility to harm another person serves NO useful purpose to our society.
Totally agree, there is no reason for someone to carry a knife other than to kill or injure, Oh I carry a knife to protect me is utter rubbish.
I think an individual stabbing a stranger to death on a train in the middle of the day says more about the killer than the weapon. Killing someone with whatever tool or implement does already carry a harsh sentence. Not sure any deterrent would have made any difference in this case.
If you carry a knife for protection then it's intended use is as a weapon That's already illegal.
This, I can’t think of any event in my life with friends, family or strangers where I’ve thought I want to kill them, well except my step mumso it does say more about the mentality of the person and the fact that they chose to carry a knife around with them and then within minutes, according to the article use it?
My Wife says that could have been me on numerous occasions,I don't stand for any unsocial behaviour and have intervened on a fair few occasions,simply because human nature/instinct dictates it to be the "right" thing to do,only after the event/outcome do You or other people say well done OR he should have just ignored it if the outcome was as happened here....be an even worse World were the good people walked over by the scum that walk the same streets.
I'm the sort of idiot who will do something too... just instinct... I will keep telling myself not to get involved in anything.. sometimes we all just react in the moment without thinking things through though. I don't live far from Guildford :(
Truly truly awful, - I just cannot understand why there is so much abnormal behavior around these days
It's an abnormal and thankfully v.rare occurrence but it seems to be creeping in. It comes with the sense of entitlement and rights that a number of people seem to be carrying and how they won't stand for it. I ride a bike and avoid any confrontations with errant motorists (male) as much as possible because you dont know what the driver and/or their passenger(s) are going to do. I think knife crime is a particularly male thing hence my distinction. There also seems to be a certain swagger attached to 'zombie' knives and such and a certain element carry knives in a belief they need/can have one. Couple this sense of entitlement with an aggressive nature and it takes seconds to go from a verbal disagreement to a life ending situation. Remember that motorist a couple of years ago who was killed because he ran into another car? A car accident that spun into murder in seconds.
Totally agree, can't abide bullies/anti social BS, although it's cost me in the past I'd most likely react the same.
hopefully the lad gets all the support he needs in the months, years ahead.
Last edited by Passenger; 5th January 2019 at 11:41.
I carry a knife every day, I use it several times a day - peeling fruit, cutting baler twine, opening feed bags, opening parcels etc.
I have never thought about stabbing anybody with it.
So it is not the knife that is the problem.
Some are sheep and some are sheepdogs. Both have their dangers.
I also carry a legal penknife every day. Most days it is useful.
Quite obviously it's not the inanimate knife!,it's the reason that "type" of person is carrying the knife that is the problem.
I can go out and buy a set of kitchen knives and take the train home,but the person alongside me might be carrying his knife for totally different reasons,his knife can then then become a problem in his hands.
You can have the harshest punishments going but unless there’s a real perception of being caught (which at present there isn’t) then the possible sentence is of little consequence. We need more police, MUCH more targeted stop & search and less of the feckin idiots who have the platform to speak from castigating police and playing the race card.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
More police capacity means also dealing with the desperate underfunding of other services that intervene in the lives of antisocial / asocial individuals, which basically means finding more tax income, which people just won't vote for.
As a society we do not care enough about criminality - let alone the rule of law - to actually do anything, strategic and sustained, to sort it out.
It was a terrible incident and I feel for the boy watching his father die. Knife crime isn't a new thing however. There have always been idiots who feel the need to carry a knife and act the hard man. For instance,going back about 30 years I remember one such chap deciding I'd jumped in front of him in a chip shop queue and so decided to express his ire by holding a knife to my throat.
I'm not convinced that that it's an increasing problem and that it is,in fact,always been there in some form or other and that it's just that changes in the way the records/statistics are kept that makes it look like it's on the rise.
As mentioned previously,having bigger punishments for knife crimes isn't going to stop the type of incident this thread is based on. That kid would still have watched his dad die.
Targeted stop and search? Who do you search? You can't search everyone and,again,it wouldn't prevent this type of crime imo.
For information below are the stop and search rules; using them the police can't just walk up any street and stop random strangers for a search.
Personally ,I've no idea what the answer is and I don't really think it will ever change anyway.
There are three main acts that allow police forces in England and Wales to carry out stop and searches.
- Section One of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984
- Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
- Sections 44/47A of the Terrorism Act 2000
Last year, 99.1% of all searches were carried out under Section One and what the Home Office calls "associated legislation", including the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. These powers allow the police to conduct a search if they have "'reasonable grounds" to suspect someone of carrying illegal drugs, a weapon, stolen property or something which could be used to commit a crime, such as a crowbar.
Section 60, on the other hand, allows officers to search anyone in a designated area without "reasonable grounds". It applies when the police have intelligence that serious violence has taken place or may take place.
Section 44/47A allows the police to conduct searches when there is "reasonable suspicion" an act of terrorism will happen. Before last year it had not been used since 2011, but 149 searches were carried out using the power following the Parsons Green bombing in September 2017.
Such a horrible event!
As has been said it says more about the person commiting the crime. To carry and stab someone unknown one would guess will link to some form of mental health issues underlying
There is a huge difference IMO between this type of horror and the rising 'culture' in some of our larger cities. The idea that people are being encouraged through an initiation or something to cause harm to another using a blade is frankly scary.
Whilst I understand that carrying a small pen knife is a really useful tool etc for daily activities, are we at the point of having to constrain the few for the benefits of many and make all 'blades' illegal and have suitable punishment?
Sent from my EML-L09 using TZ-UK mobile app
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-46783061
Absolutely shocking to hear he was stabbed 9 times.
With his comments is he trying to say he is not fit to stand trial or get a lesser sentences on the grounds of diminished responsibilities
Exactly it is the type of person, we need zero tolerance and targeted stop and search.
Perhaps we need a targeted law that bans this type of person from carrying any sort of knife in public, if caught they get an automatic 10 year jail sentance, if caught a second time they get life meaning life.
This will be some random screwup who has such pathetic self esteem he decides to up the ante and prove he’s a man by taking a knife to somebody who “disrespected “ him.
They’ll find him and lock him up pretty swiftly I reckon.
They already have.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
So there was an incident last night involving a 13 yr old and a car whose occupants murdered the boy. Seems like we need a re-usable knife incident thread a la the USA/gun thread.
Apparently the car knocked him off ‘his’ moped. What was he up to?
No. Since the law was clearly broken anyway, adding carrying a knife to the charge of stabbing someone won’t help. In other words, making carrying any kind of knife illegal won’t stop anyone who plans to use the knife for illegal activities from carrying one, and there are in any case already laws which restrict the type of knife that can be legally carried.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Just realised I posted this with the wrong post quoted, I’ll fix later
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Yes you are right. You can carry a non-locking knife with a blade under 3 inches in length. I usually do. Any fixed blade knife or locking knife (the blade locks open) in your possession in a public place and you need 'good reason' to be carrying it or be transporting it in your car. If it's in the glovebox or boot the same applies.
Many knife attacks are carried out with smallish kitchen knives, with a blade 3-5 inches long. Available from mums kitchen drawer. Do we take away mums kitchen knives?
Handguns are illegal in this country. Criminals still use handguns. Make all knives illegal in this country. Guess what?
Unfortunately there is a part of society which will always break the rules and be a danger to others. I don't see any easy answer to this.
Be careful what you have in your possession, remember if it's in your car boot or glovebox after that last camping or fishing trip, you no longer have good reason to have it with you.
From Bedfordshire Police, another 'kitchen knife' carrier dealt with in the courts.
"A man has been jailed after a stop and search found him in possession of a knife.
Christopher Welch, 19, of Brantwood Road, Luton, was stopped by community officers on 16 November after reports of a group of men throwing stones at cars in Luton town centre.
Welch was searched and a kitchen knife was found in his right hand jacket pocket.
He was subsequently charged with possession of a bladed article in a public place. At Luton Magistrates’ Court this week, Welch was sentenced to six months in prison.
PC Jay Dhillon, who led the investigation, said: “This case shows that people face a spell behind bars for carrying a knife, which should act as a deterrent.
“Our officers are not afraid to use stop and search when it is appropriate. It is not acceptable that dangerous weapons are on our streets and this is a key power to help us stop knife crime."
Like I said, be careful, legal carry is non-locking folding blade under 3 inches, and even that isn't acceptable really if you're off down the pub or clubbing!
Sorry for the lecture!
Indeed. It’s not obvious but you have to remember that your car is a public place.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
i have a van I use for carting motorbikes around, and I leave a tool box including a leatherman in it. Would I have an issue with that if I was stopped by the police?
Last edited by berin; 11th January 2019 at 10:35. Reason: because “leather
"Leather"?
If you mean 'Leatherman' multi-tool, does the blade lock open and is it longer than 3 inches? If yes to either question then yes you would have to show 'good reason' to have it with you. If no to both then it should be ok.
Saying you carry a bladed tool in the van because you need it for work is fine. If you are on the way to or from that work. You have good reason. If you aren't then you no longer have good reason.
Last edited by oldoakknives; 11th January 2019 at 10:14.
Leatherman?
I realise the judiciary judges each case on it's own merits but it's really hard to reconcile a decision like this with
the infamous zombie knife case where that lad with previous form who was recorded attacking a car with a machete type knife, didn't actually get a custodial sentence...bonkers or bias.
Also strikes me that such a comparison gives the lie to Pc Dhillons claim that it's a deterrent precisely because of the lack of consistancy from Judges on sentencing.
The public deserves better imho.
Half of these incidents the perpetrators are not carrying niche knives such as a woodlore bushcraft knife with scandi grind or a spyderco folder. They are always big stupid zombie knives or kitchen blades. It ruins it for the knife/tool collecting community who are by and large law-abiding.
Sent via smoke signal using Tapatalk
So would carrying a simple non-locking gentlemans folder within law abiding length to and from work or someone's house with the intention of using it for small tasks for example cutting cardboard, letter opening, possible adjustments to screws, peeling fruit etc constitute not a good reason ? It's very sketchy ground that lots of innocent people could easily fall foul of .
A simple little spyderco bug on somebody's keys could conceivably land oneself before a court
Sent via smoke signal using Tapatalk
What you have quoted refers to knives that are either fixed blade, locking folder or over 3 inch blades or a combination of those.
You don't need 'good reason' to carry "a simple non-locking gentlemans folder within law abiding length" which means a blade less than 3 inches. Although as I said earlier taking one clubbing or to the pub would be very unwise.
Good to know you are stress free of potential bother then with a little handy penknife
Last edited by bond; 11th January 2019 at 13:51.
Yes, it is.
And the law allows the proper use of other knives as well, within sensible boundaries. The only other option is a total ban on knives (at least for the law abiding). Anyway we're entering into another discussion now which would probably be better in another place, so I'll leave it at that.
Posting Permissions
