One of the guys at the workshop had an old BMW (dunno about what type - I am not into the BMW nomenclature). He maintained the car himself and did nearly 500k kms with it. After 12 yrs, he simply wanted something else - and bought a newer type. All that went wrong with the old one was one water pump and a radiator.As usual focus on things like a solid service history (main dealer and / or specialist) and don't obsess too much about mileage as the 330i and 330d engines are so under stressed they'll go to stratospheric mileages with no issues if well cared for.
Menno
Yes. If you look at the photo of the one that I had posted a while back, it's a pre-facelift one. There were quite a few changes to the body, some subtle, some not so, but the easy tells are the rear lamp clusters on the pre facelift which are oval shaped, and the wing mirrors.Originally Posted by WillHarris2306
Door mirrors even!
Last edited by Incredible Sulk; 28th December 2018 at 16:28.
My best friend had some real problems with one of these, the saloon/hatchback electrics and mechanism went wrong multiple times, bills ran to nearly 2k. Also various fuelling and gearbox problems. Then a failed suspension strut! Although all makes have a story like that, his Fabia then gained seal leaks, water ingress, and then the Seat frame failed and broke!Doesn't get more understated than one of these:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...us=1500&page=1
A Yeti followed and suffered a catastrophic engine failure..... and the garage took it back off him.
Has put me well off ‘cheap’ Volkswagens, my Various Passats and golfs have always been rock solid.
And yet my last Superb (63plate) did 135K and didn’t miss a beat. And that was a taxi so lots of stop start town driving.
Regards the boot problems, it was the earlier models that suffered with those.
You could just about get a 2007/8 Mercedes ML320 cdi for that money. I loved mine.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
That's the thing. I recall when i had an E46 Coupe i learned that although the car looked 'similar' in many ways to the 4 door saloon there wasn't a single body panel they shared.
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 29th December 2018 at 08:32.
He doesn’t have the best car history, I think his luck is a lot of do with it, he even broke a Mazda, and that’s almost impossible! I think he ought to stick to public transport.....
If it were my money I’d get a Honda Accord, they are available in 2.4 so have a bit of grunt although lacking in torque but the best thing about them is any independent can look after them. Honda parts aren’t cheap though.
The e46 and ilk are great cars but can throw up hefty bills if anything goes wrong.
One thing not mentioned thus far is road tax cost - it’s going to vary significantly between some of the models cited - I for one would not want to be paying over £500 PA to tax a 6 grand motor.
Fair comment but paying higher tax on a less expensive car may still stack up way better, especially on something like that 77k BMW 330d se i posted as the depreciation curve has flattened out. A few years ago a friend of mine bought a brand new M3 and recall him telling me that when he sold it he worked out that it had depreciated at just under a grand a month, and whichever way you look at it (reliability, warranty, kudos, new car smell, get to chose the colour etc.) that is eye watering.
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 4th January 2019 at 18:02.
Very true. It’s the main reason I lease these days - predicable costs and minimal capital tied into the asset.
Getting back to the point, it’s the contrasting tax costs between seemingly similar models at the same potential purchase cost level that I was trying to highlight, but yes, it’s only one factor to consider.
I remember a work colleague getting stuffed a few years back on a Seat Alhambra 2.0 petrol. About the most dull MPV thing you can imagine but CO was 226, so he got hit for heavy tax by one gram of CO emissions - he was not a happy chap. Contrast that with the BM 320d I ran with CO of 109 and tax of about £10 or £20 per year (can’t remember exactly). Mind you for how long the ultra low tax on diesels will continue is anyone’s guess...
One further observation. Although I lease Mrs N is running around in what was a 6 grand Volvo V70 diesel; it has cost an absolute fortune in both maintenance and fuel in the 2 years we have had it - and it’s certainly not a six grand car now - I guess it has cost about the same as my leased A4 over the two years.
This is also my thought/worry and why I’ve been watching this thread. Currently leasing a 17 plate A4 Avant.
My issue right now is that having separated, bought another house, that I’m needing to save some cash. I have exactly 6k of savings left, and really on the fence on whether I should lease another car or buy a 6k one. I like the fixed leasing cost, but then if I manage to get a good 6k car, I’ll not have the monthly commitment I currently have.
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For sure, that is always the problem (and therein lies the rub). Older modern cars can be a lottery as by the time you've realised it's going to be a money pit it's often too late, and they can cost £££'s if big things like turbo's, gearboxes, DPF's etc. let go (and which are only a few of the many things that can go wrong). On the flip side though even if you had a couple of total loss situations and had to scrap two £6K cars in three years (highly unlikely) a new 3 series would take at least a £12K hit in that time, probably much more.
My personal view is it depends on your attitude to risk and whether you can soak up the losses if it goes pear shaped. Also on how much you rely on your car (i.e. for business etc.). If you're less risk averse like me, you'll take a gamble and if it pays off then happy days. That said i mainly work from home and can take the train to the office when i go in twice a month if need be. Also i'm reasonably handy with the spanners (and more importantly have the time) so can do a lot of the servicing and basic maintenance myself without worrying about voiding warranties. Cars have got way more complex in recent years (particularly electronically) but things like changing oil, filters, discs, pads, wipers etc. hasn't really changed at all in decades and is easy enough to do yourself with some tools and a decent trolley jack.
On the flip side the more risk-averse, and those that rely on their cars for their livelihood may prefer to have reliability and predictable expenditure over the term of ownership, and for them buying new / pcp / lease may make more sense and i respect that. Some may also prefer a newer car to project the right image with clients etc. which i can also see.
Personally i've bought old cars, new cars and loads somewhere in between and my experience is they all cost whatever you do, but new (or nearly new cars) are a steeply depreciating asset and unless you do 20K miles / year or it's your hobby (i.e. you're into performance cars or you tour regularly with a caravan for example) as a value proposition they rarely make sound financial sense. Even hand built cars like Aston Martin's and Ferrari's aren't immune to it so what chance does anyone have with a volume / mass produced car with supply outstripping demand? My brother in law worked in new car sales for many years and he told me recently the way to look at it (whether buying outright, leasing, pcp or hp) is that someone always has to pay for the depreciation, and you can guarantee it won't be the manufacturer, importer, dealer or lease company.
Also see how things can change in a typical period of ownership. For example people buying new diesels three years ago wouldn't have foreseen all the emissions scandal / bad press / stigma on the horizon and now they're taking the hit. Although as another member and i mentioned earlier this is perhaps exactly the time to buy a diesel as bargains can be had (at the expense of the buyer unfortunately).
As for company cars i've never had one so wouldn't know, but my understanding from friends is they're not the perk they used to be due to the heavy tax penalties.
All that said though is just my experience, and i don't really know what the answer is. Other than in my case i need to to get the push bike out more often as i need to save some more money for my 214270 (and hopefully lose a bit of weight in the process).
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 2nd January 2019 at 13:34.
This is actually a quite handy car!
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I agree that the more interesting cars in this price bracket can end up being a problem when things go wrong.
I tend to shoot for the most boring car at this level which has been well taken care of and not thrashed, by virtue of what it is. That becomes my work wagon and I keep something else interesting for high days.
Currently the work horse is an 08 Golf match 1.6 petrol. It’s actually got all the gadgets, cruise, rain sensors and it’s actually got alcantara interior in it. 1 owner from new, 60k on the clock. It came as an opportunity inside the family. Next time I plan to replace it with a Passat estate in a similar boring engine configuration with some extras!
It’s all about bills when you are in this price bracket, so shooting for one with low fixing costs is my priority. This one has cost me almost nothing, apart from a sensor.
Dirt cheap now, which is good because you’ll be able to blow your savings on the VED.
Left field choice, you’ll get a gorgeous Audi s4 auto v8 for that money, buy pre 2005 and the road tax is 300 quid a year, get an lpg conversion and you’re laughing that v8 is glorious
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Yes cannot go wrong with that choice
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How much is road tax a year on a ST
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Given that your primary requirement was comfort, I don’t know why you aren’t considering a 5er over a 3er. E60 525/530d would meet your needs amply, with change.
He wants a petrol car.
No, he said he’d prefer a petrol car, which does not seem to preclude suggestions for solid diesels :)
That. Predicable choice but for a good reason.
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Hi guys, sorry for the lack of replies, I have been bed/sofa bound with Norovirus after Boxing Day!
I do prefer a Petrol if I can, and without a Turbo ideally as in my head, less to go wrong (no DPF as well).
The E90 330i still looks like the best bet I think but I still want to investigate the Volvo S60/S90 and the Jaguar XF properly.
The Skoda Octavia I am not a fan having been in both VRS versions, I find the seats not comfortable and the ride a bit 'crashy', although both of these were again on low profile tyres, hence the interest in a larger profile such as the BMW 'SE' versions over the M-Sport.
Thanks again for all your advice.
Despite my earlier post about a nice sensible boring car..... have you looked at these? Nice big bruising V8 for the same price!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01812313550075
Last edited by tobetobes; 1st January 2019 at 22:27.
V8 cool but the six series is the ugly sister of the bmw range, you’ll get a fabulous e60 5 series for that money
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Really don’t see him getting 30+ MPG from that.
Well, 30 / 13...... all just arbitrary numbers ;-).
I didn’t like these for a very long time too, the boot just looked wrong, but the front of the car is a real looker, and that rear has now grown on me. But the e60 is the best looking 5 series that’s for sure.
Oh, and the fact that I am addicted to Autotrader.... that doesn’t help me at all.....
Good call on the 6 ^
My boss had a 640i when they first came out. Really quick, sounded great (BMW V8's always do) but again a harsh ride on those run flats. A great motorway cruiser though and it could actually be reasonably frugal if you drove it carefully.
I always used to take the piss out of him though as i said it looked like a scaled-up Hyundai Coupe (it never was easy on the eye, even the new ones IMO)!
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 5th January 2019 at 11:14.
I am looking for a car in that sort of budget. Would it be completely made to consider a C6?
Instinct says probably but it’s instinct, not facts and we all love our facts on TZ-UK
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Yes, stick with the E class! You can get one of the last of your model for that money or even an early one of the next model.I am looking for a car in that sort of budget. Would it be completely made to consider a C6?
Instinct says probably but it’s instinct, not facts and we all love our facts on TZ-UK
Edit: on second thoughts, you’re French so you’ll probably be ok. France is full of ancient French cars, they only seem to break down for us foreigners (or probably more accurately, us Brits!)
Last edited by Dave+63; 2nd January 2019 at 11:59.
For that budget you can consider 2 C6s - that way you'll nearly double your chances....I am looking for a car in that sort of budget. Would it be completely made to consider a C6?
Instinct says probably but it’s instinct, not facts and we all love our facts on TZ-UK
Hello Dave. Good to see you around
The Merc has proved expensive in maintenance, with another turbo and a brake system. Brilliant car though, and E-Class is still on the list as in that budget 2006/2008 are achievable easily but significant mileage. Newer ones have astronomical mileage or probably something very wrong to be in that budget. I even looked at C class estate but they are nowhere near as comfortable as E-Class (which is why I mentioned C6).
Looking at E61s too...
Decisions, decisions...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
http://c6owners.org/index.php Or http://www.citroenet.org.ukI am looking for a car in that sort of budget. Would it be completely made to consider a C6?
Instinct says probably but it’s instinct, not facts and we all love our facts on TZ-UK
Might be a better source of info, though not sure what the foot fall is like?
Thank you Captain. I am not brave enough I think, but I’ll probably regret it one day.
Give me a fully sorted W124 in that budget and I’ll be fine
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
C6 are great! They are really well equipped inside, proper luxury, and rare enough to turn a head. I would get one if I didn’t live in a country where it rains all the time.....
I want a Seat Exeo, which is an Audi A4 B7 with a Seat badge on it. If you're after a petrol one they're a bit rare, but plenty of diesels about.
There are lots of "good value" - £35k to £40K "when new" cars now around for £6k
My son has just bought a one owner, 55,000 miles Merc SLK 280 with all the extras plus a full documented Merc Main Dealer history and a good 6 months warranty - he paid £5,800
I have a BMW 335D and it is just lovely, but if you are going to spend £6k on a 330 or 335, diesel or petrol, be careful as it will probably have 100,000 plus miles and unless it has really been looked after could be expensive to run, unless you are handy with "spanners"
I also have a 9 3 SAAB Petrol Aero - which I have had for years and just use it in the summer, (2009 and still under 30,000 miles) - if you can find a SAAB 9 3 Petrol Aero, 210bhp, again they are lovely cars and you may drop lucky and get a really good one for £6k ........ but it is finding one that will be the problem.
I always keep an eye out for them and the following looks good value, but it's miles away
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01812303539723
or
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...1812053024115#
Last edited by BillN; 2nd January 2019 at 13:06.
100,000 miles is absolutely nothing on a modern car, and with engines at least it's only just bedded in (as they run such tight tolerances).
Most half-decently engineered cars will run to 300K+ without any serious intervention if serviced properly. By that i mean not necessarily the manufacturer advised long service schedules which are only in place to appeal to lease companies. Their yearly services are spot on, irrespective of your driving habits. The main thing is oil which should be changed as often as possible, especially where turbos are involved (which is practically every car these days).
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 2nd January 2019 at 13:45.
Yes.
Fair enough I bow to your (BMW) expertise, (or not)
Last edited by BillN; 2nd January 2019 at 13:58.
Don't then. Cheers.
how many BMW 3 series diesels have you had?
with or without 100,000+ miles on the clock
One to be fair, but when not working on it myself it was regularly serviced by my mate who's been a diesel mechanic / technician for 30 years.
It had 210k on the clock when i sold it and it sounded pretty good to be honest. Original turbo as well, but i changed the clutch and DMF at 180K.
I've had four 3 series petrols though and the best engine from my experience was the M54 straight six that will go to equally high mileages if looked after. A good engine but pretty thirsty unfortunately.
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 2nd January 2019 at 14:22.
Are you though Bill, that's what i want to know? :)
The problems that can occur with the modern BMW diesel engine have been well identified and most of these can be prevented by "preventative maintenance"
BUT preventative maintenance on a BMW diesel engine is quite to very expensive - why, because the engine and ancillaries have become complicated and they are time consuming to work on, most areas are difficult to get to, (therefore expensive labour cost wise), especially from Mr BMW
at higher mileages and with general use, there are problems with carbon build up - (EGR, DPF, inlet manifold, even cylinder head and valves) - which are time-consuming and expensive to maintain and/or replace
all parts for BMW's are expensive and at 10 years old and less, various bits and pieces crack, perish and wear simply because they are old, and the replacement of these before they go should be regarded as preventative maintenance - BMW (now) use a lot of plastic parts
even simple jobs like replacing glow plugs and the glow plug controller take time on the BM whereas on other engines they are easy to get to - BMW have even made replacing the Battery complicated for an ordinary owner - any new Battery needs to be registered as the alternator needs to be "told" by the ECU how to charge the replacement Battery as a new map is needed - BMW can charge £100 just to register a new Battery, and if you wish to do it yourself you need the appropriate scanning tool.
there are sensors all over the place, and if anything goes wrong and is evidenced by the ECU throwing up a fault code, it can take time and be expensive to solve.
Even a regen of the DPF is not possible when there are certain faults with the engine management system, i.e. with glow plug/controller, - and such will, cause an even bigger carbon build up in the DPF
The iron block may be bullet proof, but all the bits and pieces around it need preventative maintenance and people buy cheap, high mileage BM's and do not spend money on maintaining them so you have to be careful what you are buying once they get to 8 or 10 years old or are high mileage "cheap" cars
We run three diesel cars, (only one is approaching 100k miles) - I have had quite a few BMW's over the years, cars and, Bikes since 1984 - I try to do all my own work on the vehicles that I own as I do not trust the Main Dealers
The SAAB 9 5 and 9 3 are much easier and cheaper to work on - we have had 5 of these - 4 diesels and one petrol
Last edited by BillN; 2nd January 2019 at 14:51.
Aren't these GM motors Bill? May be wrong.
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 2nd January 2019 at 15:10.
Yes they are - used also by Alfa and Fiat I think - they are pretty crude compared with the BM engine
The first was 2.2 litres, (very economical, but noisy), and the second the 1.9 TDi - which is a good engine, but not too economical - the basic 1,9 is 150bhp but they also sold that engine in 180bhp which is/was really good - at first with a dealer upgrade and then as a 1,9TTiD
The Petrol engines again were an old design - but the 9 5 Aero with 240bhp flies - I just loved it in Estate version - I used to do a little work with GM and for 6 months we had a 9 5 Aero 240bhp and a 9 5 180bhp diesel - in a way there was not much in them for normal driving, but the Petrol Aero just felt much better
I still prefer the 9 5 Estate to the BM - but alas SAAB are now more
This man truly knows what he's talking about.
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I wouldn't say that
but any knowledge I have came initially from not having the cash to pay to have my car repaired
but, the BM - if only it took as long to replace the main thermostat as it does on my MGB - which takes 5 mins and costs £10 for the part
the BMW - there are two thermostats - at the front of the engine - getting to the main is a chore and then you have to undo the bolts - one of the main causes of low mpg on the BM diesel engine is because it does not get to it's optimum running temperature, lets say 90 degree C - usually caused by a faulty, (past there working life), main thermostat and/or EGR thermostat - this also can caused the DPF not to regenerate - as the engine needs to be up to a certain temperature for this to happen......... the car will run OK when you drive it - but the mpg will be well down and it is only after you have bought it you will discover this - in their wisdom BMW decided NOT to include a temperature gauge on the dash - you have to go into their "secret" menu or interrogate the ECU/DME to find out the engine coolant temperature
I'm a newish 335D owner so looking at all the preventative maintenance issues on the car is quite interesting - but the 3 litre BM engine is just amazing
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