Apologies for the navel gazing. Please don't read if this kind of ling introspective post is of no interest.
I'm thinking of getting rid of my only remaining "luxury" watch.
It's my Tudor Black Bay 41 (blue dial). So I realise it's right at the shallow end of the luxury watch pool.
I only bought it less than a year ago, and I still think it's a very attractive thing. But I hardly wear it. This is partly because I'm not really a bracelet guy, and find it too heavy and uncomfortable on steel.
But also, I'm increasingly thinking that "Luxury" isn't really for me. I feel like it doesn't suit me, and I kind of feel like an imposter when I'm wearing it.
I feel way more at home wearing seiko divers, and stuff from microbrands. And frankly, I get just as much joy from wearing the cheap, fun stuff. There is just as much history, and interest, if not more so, with the likes of a Seiko Turtle than there is with the Tudor, which has a tenuous connection to the Tudor sub.
And finally, call me a philistine, but having owned watches costing £50 up to a couple of grand, to my eyes, and in my hands, the difference in quality is often negligible.
Has anyone else had similar experiences - of ramping up the amount you're prepared to have sunk in a watch, then finding the experience disappointing and wanting to back down again?
Interested in your thoughts.
I have five Rolex, very happy with four and just about ok with one which is a Daytona. I won't sell it because it is a reasonable investment.Originally Posted by Pagan
I have a 14ct gold JLC and am happy with that. This was my only spur of the moment purchase as I won it in a game of poker.
I also have an Omega Constellation and I quite like that.
I once took a look at some Tudors and just felt nothing for them.
I am just one of those people who rarely regrets buying anything.
Last edited by Mick P; 10th June 2020 at 16:21.
I have kind of gone on the same journey. Sold my old Speedy, and my early Pan, and my Explorer and my North Flag etc etc.
Most expensive thing in the box now is a lovely Porsche Design, one of the last proper ones before the car company bought them, but i don't wear that often and when I finally bumble my way to 250 posts I'll put it in SC. The MM300 is the most expensive thing I wear day to day - worth a couple of grand I guess - and to 95% of people that's "Just a Seiko", which is the way I like it.
Other than a few other Seikos (Pogue, PADI, 6309-729a etc) the box is full of things from the likes of Autodromo, Farer, Newmark, Eddie, Straton etc. They're all lovely things and none of them are cheap, especially compared to what the average Joe spends on a watch, but none of them scream "look at my watch!" like an Omega or a Brietling (in fairness, that's about people's perceptions of the wearer more than the wearer I guess, but nonetheless). I flogged my last Rolex after a bloke on the train in a terrible suit and those long shoes which turn up at the ends like a jester's because he doesn't know what a shoe tree is interupted my reading to ask: "Oi, is that real then?"
I love hunting the micro brands for quality. The incoming Pancor 03 was a real find and it's ridiculous value for the spec, looks great, and doesn't suggest I drive an Audi and play golf.
Depends on the watches you buy, value for money is a very personal thing. My Omega is certainly three times the value of my Hamilton’s but I don’t get three times the enjoyment, but...very glad I own it as it is more ‘special’ than the others. Buy what makes you happy!
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The nice thing about having a little bit of extra time during lockdown has been exploring the number of new watch companies that have popped up over the last few years that I've completely missed - many using Chinese and Japanese movements to create some surprisingly lovely creations (I'll name check Baltic Watches as one). It's not just the design aesthetics that are eye-catching, but much like Eddie's offerings, the price point. It's definitely given me food for thought, and and my chase has pivoted from luxury watches to spotting the amazing value that these lesser known names offer.
Out of financial prudence, and basic lack of innovation, I doubt I'll be buying a Swiss watch again.
Maybe I'm just bored with them.
That's my thinking.
And at the moment, I feel like that's something other than an expensive watch.
Like maybe an expensive Bass. Lol.
Yah, same; I may be buying less expensive watches but I have just bought a Saab 900 to add to the cars. Lol.
Over the years as my watch budget changed, the cost of watches that I like also increased. Not that I wasn't interested in them before, but I just couldn't afford or justify buying a watch over £300 for the longest time. I did end up buying a few microbrands as my disposable income increased to understand my own preference and what makes me happy.
I bought my first Swiss "luxury" watch in the form of a Tudor last year. I don't think I'll ever get bored of it and I still appreciate the difference in quality compared to my other watches. Around that time I've also reduced some watches in my collection and also have not bought any new watches. I do want to buy 1 more watch that I think is outside of my old budget (German though), but I'm also selling another to raise the cash and keep the collection small. I'm hoping after that purchase I won't have a watch itch for a while. I have another Swiss watch but that was gifted to me and I can't really sell it on. Treating it like an investment as it doesn't really suit me and I don't wear it much.
Sounds like we're at different parts of our watch journey. I've just gotten off that initial collecting mode and you're on a stage further down where you know what you like and happy to part with your Swiss collection.
Yeah, I think so.
There's still a bit of trepidation there, because I might not have an opportunity to buy another nice watch, so part of me feels like I should hold on to this one in case my feelings change, but I reckon 6 months is more than enough to know you're not really feeling it with a watch.
I came to the same conclusion and sold my Black Bay. I did not find the quality any better than my MM300 and later I bought a Ginault that I thought was better quality. I wonder if I would have kept it if it were the BB58 but it was not just the awkward size but I did not find the build quality or finishing worth the price.
I own a number of micro brands and you’re right - I get just as much enjoyment (if not more) from wearing them as some of my expensive watches
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I’m totally the same - I’m 50 and during my 20’s and 30’s I owned and flipped about 20 Rolex - every ‘sports’ model there is except a Daytona, a couple of datejusts, even a vintage 5513, speedies, 3 or 4 Panerai - they were all £1500- £3000 new (about £1k for the 5513!)
I’m not a collector and could never mentally justify more than 2 ‘quality’ watches - insurance, servicing - and I wasn’t rich, my ‘thing’ was watches. But you could flip any of those watches and basically lose a couple of hundred quid at the worst, make a few hundred at best. But none of them stuck, I had mates who’d say in the pub ‘check out his Rolex’ and I found that a bit embarrassing/made me look a bit ‘flashy’
About 6 years ago I sold my last one, a Sub LV for about double what I paid. I never really liked the green, actually found the watch a bit boring - and the fact it was worth a decent secondhand car meant I started to baby it and wear it less (I can’t afford to inflict expensive damage to a watch that costs the same as my car to service with all the waiting and palaver)
And trust me after 20+ Rolex the excitement of the wait, the nonsense about lists, ‘my AD’ , the unboxing - it just lost its sparkle - and the fact the watches magically doubled in price for no apparent reason, plus I wasn’t keen on the new designs, made it easy. Every now and again I kind of fancy a new one, but the mad prices, and the knowledge I’ll just get bored /wear it less/flip/rinse and repeat puts me right off!
I actually funnel that money differently now, nicer cars, nicer house, air rifles are surprisingly expensive (!) and whilst I still like watches I’m not at all into expensive Swiss. I tried on a BB58 not long ago and remembering how I bought a ‘proper’ 5513 for half the price, no lume left and a horrible rattle bracelet made me baulk at the price tbh!!
My tastes are pretty humble now - wearing a new Seiko Arnie as I type this, I have a couple of Casio frogmen I seem to rotate in the summer (can’t remember the last time I wore a suit and if I have a wedding or smart do I won’t wear a watch) a Seiko Samurai I might sell as I get bored of setting and winding it (I ‘m a bit of a quartz solar fan) plus a box of g shocks as I’m a sucker for 80’s design although I might cull those back to just screwbacks - I’m ‘blessed’ with large wrists so the Arnie is about as small as I can go without looking like I’m wearing a girls watch.
I think it’s absolutely possible to have a love and appreciation of watches without owning them - I am glad I got it out of my system when they were still relatively inexpensive and a lot of now ‘classic iconic timepieces’ were quite easily available. I don’t work in an office, and all the ‘my car is faster than yours, my watch is more expensive’ which was around in the 80’s seems a bit old fashioned and embarrassing and if I’m totally honest that was part of what attracted me to them back in the day. I’m not like that at all now - in fact I met a friend not long ago who was wearing a brand new Pepsi GMT on a jubilee, and my first thought was ‘that’s a bit flash and in the flesh I don’t really like it’ - when he told me he’d paid list price and then told me how much I nearly spat out my pint - I just can’t ever imagine spending that much on a watch now, it just isn’t ‘me ‘ any more. I’d rather by a stack of new furniture, a new Mac and a few big telly’s plus a holiday and presents for the wife and kids!
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I went the other way,got rid of micro brands and anything from the Far East.Kept Swiss and German.
It's so nice to see someone moving to their own beat. More power to you.
There's no doubt that the diminishing returns curve is pretty steep. Having spent everything from £50 to £35k on a single watch (and most points in between) over the past few years I can agree that enjoyment doesn't equate to price. I still buy stuff at both ends of the spectrum (cheapest this year £175...most expensive £14k) and can appreciate both for what they are. Certainly if it was a case of sacrificing other more important stuff for an expensive watch, I'd be sticking to the lower priced stuff. There is plenty of fun and interest to be had for less than £500. Sometimes you have to climb the mountain to believe there's not much up there!
That's a great way of putting it. I like that.
Although don't want to pee on anyone's parade - if people are having fun up there, more power to em!
A very interesting and open thread
I’ve had plenty of Rolex, still got a couple of breitling, but am now far happier dipping in and out of Seiko, Orient, micro brands etc
Each to their own - and I’d never say never to top end, but it’s dull as Dutch when homages and “value” are so much fun
Interesting thread! Maybe it’s the current climate causing me to think about priorities, maybe it’s the quality output of micro brands that is so impressive at the moment, but I’m definitely aligned to the sentiment from the OP.
I’ve owned larger quantity of cheaper watches wanting to be a <collector>, I’ve sold everything and bought 1 or 2 Swiss luxury pieces believing they would be far more satisfactory to own.
I read a quote elsewhere that said true happiness is being content with what you already have. I know it seems cliched, but I realised I was just chasing a dream without enjoying what I had.
I found luxury watches to be too valuable to wear, and found equal enjoyment (it not more) in less expensive pieces.
As an aside I also think the price rises in luxury brands over the last 15-20 years are ludicrous - brand name vs sum of the parts, just doesn’t work for me
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That’s 100% where I am. I just love watches and love other people’s enthusiasm for them.
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How long have you been thinking about it?
Not saying that everyone who owes a high end luxury watch is a poser but i would say quite a few are and there are those who can comfortable own a few luxury watches without too much trouble. Then there are the casuals who want to buy a watch without researching too much.
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There are certainly watches that would feel too conspicuous and expensive for me to wear comfortably. So out of tune with the rest of my life that I’d feel silly wearing them. Where you would draw that line (or if you even have a line) is different for everyone. Of course if you like it, it can be a case of getting used to something out of your comfort zone, but in this case it sounds like you don’t even like it that much, given the ‘heavy and uncomfortable’ description. Surely the main thing is to wear what feels right and makes you happy.
Perfectly put!
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Maybe these last few months have made you reevaluate things, maybe we all have. Life is too short to own something you’re not wearing and even more so if you’re not that comfortable with it. Sell it and enjoy the money on another watch or two, or something else you’ll enjoy. I decided a couple of months ago that I had more watches than I’d wear regularly - I’d gone up from 6 to 7, decided that was too many to wear so sold some and now down to 4. Better number for me. All the watches that went were great but I’ve moved on and am happy with it. I want to go down to 3 now.
Probably since about February. Although I've now made up my mind.
I was expecting an overwhelming number of comments to the effect of "you'll regret it", but pleased to see I'm not the only one.
I think you have made the right choice. If you are not getting any joy from an item there is no point keeping it.
During lock down I have had a bit of a think about my collection and a few will be up for the chop soon. I have come full circle and realised that it’s not the nice new shiny watches that I am interested in or enjoy wearing, it’s older vintage stuff. It’s the vintage stuff that got me in to this hobby in the first place.
As a bit of a Tudor fanboy, I kind of disagree about the perceived luxury or not, elements but that’s kind of irrelevant. This hobby and that’s all it is to me, is about enjoying watches. Whatever watches take your fancy.
I suppose I’ve got quite a few higher end pieces. Nothing into the absolute stratosphere but very nice things nevertheless. I also have everything from £50 ebay pickups to some lovely mid-price, microbrands. I get pleasure from all of them in much the same ways. How they feel, what they look like, history, innovation and that ‘thing’ that’s just impossible to define but still draws you to something. My most worn watch right now is a Seiko SARB017. It just feels right for the here and now. It sits in the watch box next to a Tudor costing many times more on one side and a Citizen on the other that cost me very little. They’ll all get worn but in the mean time, I still enjoy just looking at and handling them.
So, I suppose what I’m saying (in far too many words - sorry!) is that I can completely get what you’re saying. If you’re not wearing the ‘luxury’ stuff, you may as well let someone else enjoy it, while you enjoy other things. They’re all watch and all good.
P.S. I think I need to keep a close eye on SC given the amount of interesting watches seem like they might be making their way there soon.
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Yes, if I buy anything new now, I think I'll go back to vintage seiko divers and chronos, or re-editions of them.
Have to agree with the observations that the output from some micros can be of tremendous quality, but having thrown myself into the world of watches with chaotic enthusiasm quite late in life, I've also found that there are many Swiss and German brands producing some great watches which remain stubbornly under-the-radar, yet cost no more than the micros and affordable Japanese makers.
The more I learn, and the more I handle a variety of watches, the more I seem to be valuing those where attention to detailing, quality of materials, and most of all, robustness has been paid. I especially enjoy watches I feel I can wear all the time without fear of damaging them - which has meant a move away from polished finishes, Titanium, aluminium bezels, plexiglass, &c.
I now have 10 slot box for my "dailies", which contains 2x Damasko, 1x Sinn, 2x MWC, 1x Alpina, 1x Zeno, 1x Tauchmeister and the odd-man-out - a recently-arrived Nivrel Coeur-de-la-Sarre. Right now, there's a good chance my collecting will add more Sinn, Archimede, Haldor, Dievas and suchlike.
All that said, I daresay that if I'm above the turf 10 years from now, I'll be a one-watch R*l*x fanghurl, like any right-thinking chap...
Same happened to me. I bought an Omega and it was nice and everything but in my opinion not worth the cost for me personally.
I think its more suited to high earners who have disposable cash already sitting around rather than people who have to save hard long term to get one.
Looking at my latest purchases they seem to be cheaper rather than more expensive. Eddies, micro brands and a Vostok to mod and I really enjoy them.
Not discarding the higher end but things are creeping up in price and/or availability so fast that most are simply out of reach. Not sure that’s a bad thing yet.
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Big difference between “luxury” watches and very high quality Swiss timepieces, in my opinion.
Little bit of virtue signalling going on here I think.
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You're not wrong thinking you should sell the Tudor. Its an ok watch but nothing special and too bulky. The faux rivet bracelet killed it from the get go tbh.
I wear a £150 Withings watch with pulse and step counter. My rolexes are in the vault, dont miss wearing them at all tbh. Draws the wrong attention and these days represent something i dont want to be associated with.
If the markets crash and Rolex once again becomes the domain of collector nerds and old geezers, I might return. Not holding my breath though...
Everything runs its course, and I think I reached the end of it.
I wear Steinhart Omega Debaufre Tudor in rotation very easily. No issue at all enjoying any price point. When I go up a level and wear Glashutte I enjoy it but not more than others. I just like watches
My 10 bob's worth.
If I'm being completely frank I am a snob with regards to certain aspects of my life. Fortunately, watches are not part of that. I have a number of quality as well as workhorse timepieces. Well quality in my humble opinion...................I buy and wear what I like.
If i'm in the mood for me Seiko sumo, so be it, if it's me Pam 90 or me Traser H3, well I wear what I want. I am not and will never be safe queen. I still have maybe 3 "grail" watches to acquire. Grail is perhaps the wrong way to describe for me. I'm lusting for them I think, but I can wait. Why do I want them? It's my preference, I like them so I'll wear them.
That said once the itch has been scratched, I don't know how I'll feel, I can only wear one at a time but when the time comes I may very well thin the herd. I don't know. I don't flip but in the future who knows?
I'm waiting for a bronze diver coming from Gruppo Gamma over the next couple of days. I've bought without seeing it in the flesh or trying it on. I'm 99% sure it will tick the bronze box for me. I don't need one, just really like the look of it. That coupled with a decent movement and a quality strap is a winner for me.
In a nutshell, wear what makes you happy and flip it/stash it when it doesn't. Personal choice wins hands down, I respect people's decision and would never judge. After all it's their choice.
Cheers and stay safe all.
Jon
I think you mean "making a virtue of a necessity", which is true; very little virtue here - we're all capitalist-imperialist-materialist running-dogs here, Kamerade...
Blimey. That's a bit cutting.
I don't see where there's virtue signalling involved in "I bought an expensive watch, but I don't like it enough to justify keeping it, so I'm gonna sell it and spend the money on a Bass instead".
I have tried to be really clear in saying I don't hold anything against the people who do get enjoyment out of swimming in the deep end.
My after-work / weekend watch is the titanium GS diver. The quality is tremendous and it gives me pleasure each and every time I look at it. On the other hand, I recently bought the classic cheapo Citizen eco-drive diver (BN0150-17L) as a 'beater'. For 150 quid, you get a very well finished watch (all elements perfectly aligned), that, in terms of comfort, reliability, accuracy, robustness and legibility, is the match of anything out there at any price point. By its own terms of reference it is a complete success and, to my mind, deserving of as much respect as the GS.
Law of diminishing returns. There is no way a Sub is worth 10x more than a Seiko Sumo. There is no way a Seiko Sumo is worth 5x more than a Casio Edifice. It isn't just watches. It's up to you to decide how far your comfort level is on the scale of diminishing returns. There are enough brands and price points for us all.
Sadly you’ll get that on here. Mention you’re not that bothered about expensive brands and a complete stranger will suggest you’re a green-eyed pauper!
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Really enjoyed this post. More power to you.Have to agree with the observations that the output from some micros can be of tremendous quality, but having thrown myself into the world of watches with chaotic enthusiasm quite late in life, I've also found that there are many Swiss and German brands producing some great watches which remain stubbornly under-the-radar, yet cost no more than the micros and affordable Japanese makers.
The more I learn, and the more I handle a variety of watches, the more I seem to be valuing those where attention to detailing, quality of materials, and most of all, robustness has been paid. I especially enjoy watches I feel I can wear all the time without fear of damaging them - which has meant a move away from polished finishes, Titanium, aluminium bezels, plexiglass, &c.
I now have 10 slot box for my "dailies", which contains 2x Damasko, 1x Sinn, 2x MWC, 1x Alpina, 1x Zeno, 1x Tauchmeister and the odd-man-out - a recently-arrived Nivrel Coeur-de-la-Sarre. Right now, there's a good chance my collecting will add more Sinn, Archimede, Haldor, Dievas and suchlike.
All that said, I daresay that if I'm above the turf 10 years from now, I'll be a one-watch R*l*x fanghurl, like any right-thinking chap...
Well said. I have a decent-sized collection of Swiss watches and the diminishing returns point is absolutely right. Most are gathering dust in a watch box. I also hate all the waiting list b*ll*cks and the over-hyped marketing. It’s incredible that you can’t even try on the watch you want to buy anymore in some circumstances. This is “treat ‘em mean keep ‘em keen” consumerism. I accept I’m ranting now....
Anyway, a year ago I bought myself a champagne dialled Orient Bambino from Amazon. Not a micro brand, I accept, however I have fallen in love with its faux vintage vibe. All told the watch movement is nothing special, it has no Sapphire, no ceramic, no lume, but It’s the first watch I’ve connected with properly for ages and it cost £100! To top matters off I put it on a £5 perlon strap. It looks great. Its made me consider some of my earlier purchases. I’m still not ready to sell the collection out, or ditch the Swiss, but there is some pleasure to be had in simplicity and balance.
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IMG_0197.JPG
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That pic didn’t work out too well but there she is!
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I’m glad for you. It seems like you are happy with what you want which is an excellent position to be in. I do hope you keep an interest in horology - but it doesn’t mean you need to spend thousands on the latest innovations.
A lot of us go to concerts but aren’t maestros.
Justifiable rant in my very humble opinion...
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I’ve already said that it’s natural to find some luxury watches a bit much. It may be enjoyable to wear something special, but at some point on the scale it becomes absurd. Where that point is will depend on your lifestyle. Also, micro brands are a lively and interesting scene currently, and there’s nothing wrong with preferring to focus on that.
For the sake of balance though, I might add that ‘Getting rid of everything Swiss’ is quite a dramatic way of saying, ‘Not bonding with one particular Tudor’! And also that if you really want to see a huge improvement in quality from the better micro brands, you will need to consider the movement, or look at even more expensive brands than Tudor. My personal feeling is that Tudor, while being well put together, are carefully designed to look less luxurious than Rolex and to be clearly identifiable as in a different price bracket - after all, it would be a disaster if they started taking sales from their own stablemates. And even Rolex themselves have an emphasis on being solid and dependable, and aren’t about display backs revealing ornate movements, or complex case shapes and finishing - that’s where the difference becomes very clear. Rolex are more design classics, give or take a bit of gilding the lily.
Micro brands, unlike Tudor, won’t be carefully trying to appear less expensive than a competitor, they will make the best of what they have. The result won’t be the same as a higher end piece, inside and out, but it may be good design and great value for money.
In any case, I doubt anyone would think you were being too much of a poser for wearing a Tudor, if you find one that suits you and that you actually like. Personally I’d be more interested in their vintage models though, most new watches feel a little showy to me, either because of the design, or simply because they’re brand new.
Certainly wear what you like and feel comfortable in. Micro brand watches can be fun and satisfying to wear. Also great VFM.No questions about it. Difference in quality is almost always obvious even if the law of diminishing returns also applies.
The closest in terms of quality is Ginault but then it is a very faithful copy.
A tad dramatic though.
Well, to update, my watch box currently only contains Seiko, Vostok, and some microbrands (with seiko movements), and my bank balance has never looked happier, and I own my first professional standard bass rig, with a solid state 250W amp, a 2x10 cab, and an American made Fender Jazz.
At the moment, watches just weren't delivering value for money for me, so the money was better elsewhere. My horological interests are more than satisfied by the stuff I do own, and will continue to have an interest in - mostly at the sub £500 price point.
Thanks for your thoughts all.
Here's an off topic new arrival post:
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