Reply With QuoteYou're overthinking it Tony, ride with what feels comfortable to you.
I've been mulling something over for a while now, and thought I'd seek advice from the merry band of bikers here on TZ.
My Striple is a bit of a beast, delivering it's maximum power of 116bhp at 12,000rpm and maximum torque of 77NM at 9,000rpm. Not massive figures in a relative sense, but it's a very light bike so its actual performance mirrors that. Now, I read some advice offered to someone on another forum who was talking about de-cat pipes on a Bonneville. The responder said "just ride it in the upper quarter of the rev band and take it anywhere..." and it made me think about the way I'm riding at the moment. The bike red lines at 12500rpm, and although I'm running it in I can now take it to 7,000rpm and remain within the Triumph guidelines. Obviously, in traffic and stop start situations riding style is dictated to a certain extent, but in general terms I've realised that I tend to stay at about 4-500rpm when I could opt for a lower gear and higher revs.
I understand that I'm not yet fully used to the high revving engines that you find on sports bikes (I regard to the Triple as a naked sports bike, rather than a roadster), and I suspect that I'm subconsciously affected by what seems to be more engine strain as the sound coming out of the pipes becomes less of a rumble and more of a scream. Should I be giving it more of a free reign, though, and allowing the engine to operate at more like its maximum levels - or is that really a theoretical/track thing?
Sorry if this sounds like a daft question. Despite my younger years on bikes and the 1500 miles I've got under my belt post-test, I regard myself as something of a newbie.
You're overthinking it Tony, ride with what feels comfortable to you.
Just ride it how you/ your bike feel comfortable. Each bike will have a natural rev range where it feels best to cruise.
There’s no benefit from keeping the revs higher than they need to be; dropping a couple of gears to get better acceleration when needed is quick and easy.
The moment you think about “how” your riding you’re “no longer” riding.
I’ve taken my bike and for one reason or another my brain with thinking too much about how I was riding. Sounds weird trying to explain it, but everything fell out of sync and didn’t feel right. Went straight home and put bike back in garage.
Only happened twice but just knew I wasn’t in the right frame of mind maybe.
I'm not in that place myself, Jason - everything feels perfect and I love every second on the bike. I'm just wondering whether I'm restricting the engine unnecessarily and am just musing on the subjectOriginally Posted by Chinnock
Thanks, both - see my response to Jason above.
The advice above is good, but I'd add a couple of caveats. First, if you are using quality oils, changing the filter twice as often as the oil and keeping an eye on oil levels then for all practical purposes the engine isn't the issue. With the bike you are on then you are going to accelerate as smartly as is ever going to be needed pretty well wherever you want in the rev range.
As a result, where you feel cosy is always going to be right. I just have one exception. In a thirty limit, drop a cog below where you feel comfortable. the simple reason is that getting in this habit will really help you stop speeding by accident. One of the problems with modern sports bikes is that thirty and forty really do feel like standing still and it's all too easy to end up going faster than you intended.
Mind you, I'm surprised to hear the Striple described as 'very light'. My R30 is over 150lbs lighter.
Everyone rides differently. I guess though if it feels right, it is right.
I'd ignore the self imposed rev limit during running in..the engine will benefit far more from varied revs and giving it more frequent full throttle openings..this will create more compression and better fuel economy,less oil consumption and better performance for the future...the first 100miles are more important for scrubbing tyres and bedding in brakes than anything engine related.
And as has been mentioned previously ride how you are comfortable,but bare in mind your bike is built to be ridden at higher rpm than you are using it at presently,so the sweetspot is higher up the rev range.
A bit of advice I got many years ago was to not put the engine under excessive load by being in too low a gear, particularly when accelerating.
Admittedly this was when engines weren't as refined or robust as they are now but I think the advice still holds true - your big ends may thank you for it
(at high revs, the rev limiter provides engine protection but there's nothing other than common sense protecting the engine from low revs)
Never thought about the revs tbh. Pretty much rag mine as I like the noise, overrun etc.
While it’s running in keep it buzzing, go up and down the box and never Labour the engine, don’t worry about the revs but don’t go over 80%.
As a previous triple owner I’d echo a few of the above comments - your engine will tell you if it’s unhappy so listen to it and get a feel for it . It’s a light thing and the inertia of a small engine like this means it spins up quickly and there’s no need to keep revs down - as long as it’s not bogging down or snatching when you close the throttle you’re fine :)
I found it to be a very capable package and flexible engine - way too easy to get to troublesome speeds for me though :)
I’ve gone back to cruisers now but as an all rounder it’s a great choice - enjoy !
If you don`t like the feel of high-revving engines you`ve bought the wrong bike..
Good point regarding speeding! As for weight, it's exacrtly 5st lighter than my previous Street Twin.
Jason, remember I'm a new biker and it's a new bike. I suspect you thought a lot more back in the day.
I'm pretty comfortable everywhere, tbh
Yes, I've been trying to make sure I don't put it under load unnecessarily. It's much easier in that respect than the Twin was, actually.A bit of advice I got many years ago was to not put the engine under excessive load by being in too low a gear, particularly when accelerating.
Admittedly this was when engines weren't as refined or robust as they are now but I think the advice still holds true - your big ends may thank you for it
(at high revs, the rev limiter provides engine protection but there's nothing other than common sense protecting the engine from low revs)
You da man
Yes, I'm pretty much doing that now. It's quite liberating being a bit freer with the throttle.
I know what you mean about potentially troublesome speeds!
Eh?
Your right Tony, it does take time getting familiar with a new bike. Rev ranges, sounds, power delivery etc
Remember my Daytona 675, fantastic triple engine that enjoyed the higher rev range tbh.
With advent of so much electronics on bikes now you can ride them however you like. My view has always been rev it to at least 75% of its max revs and have fun with the gears.
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The Street Triple and the Bonneville are two very different bikes with very different engines. The latter redlines at 7000rpm, the former is approaching double that.
FWIW, I regularly ran my T120 up to the limit but the Speed Triple I rarely did: it sounded awful and there wasn't that much more acceleration in the last 3k, whereas the Bonnie pulled right up to the line.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
as someone has already said , you might be overthinking it abit :)
just run the bike how you want to , remember that the street triple (and speed) are built and known for torque - it doesnt really matter where you are in the rev range they will still pull.
riding power bands is for pure sports bikes , purely because thats the way they have to be ridden most of the time - open the throtte hard outside the power range on a pure sports and not much happens until you hit it.
*sure you can run in 3rd gear at say 8k or 5/6th at 3k but all you are doing is wasting fuel in the former.
simple formula is if its not pulling as hard as you would like -change down :)
Last edited by pugster; 22nd December 2018 at 18:08.
The rev range is there for a reason, use it and enjoy it all, occasionally let it go red which is the most fun in 1st, 2nd and 6th!!!!!
RIAC
This.
Try riding for a day in a lower gear than you'd ordinarily do to get an idea of what your bike is really capable of.
It won't do any damage, you're actually more likely to wreck it riding at slower speeds in higher gears.
Have a look at this bloke to get an idea.
Same bike as my own, you'll see the gear he's selected in the centre of the circular part of the dash.
Don't think he actually gets it into top.
(Not saying you should spank it like him unless you have the necessary ability)
I remember reading something ages back about new bikes/cars running in. Basically the gist was not to keep at a steady speed or revs for a long time, but to vary the revs gradually increasing them. The theory was that this would result in a better and higher performing engine when it was eventually run in. I cant think of any reason why this may be so but i’m no expert.
I always try to use the full rev range a couple of times when i’m out anyways, purely cos i like it!! It can be hard on a S1000rr though !!
Stuart
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Triples are not that revy.
Loads of 600cc 4 cylinder sports bikes rev to over 16,000rpm.
Even my S1000RR revs to about 14,500prm, although anything more than 10,000rpm in 4th or above is just mentally fast.
People new to motorcycling that have spent several years driving cars, often use a higher gear than is optimal.
Last edited by andy tims; 23rd December 2018 at 21:28.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Having owned the previous version of the Street Triple for a few years now, I can say that there’s no ‘right’ way to ride it, its advantage is flexibility. There’s enough grunt to short shift through all the gears and potter around very pleasantly. Short shifting it into second then opening it up is pretty satisfying too. If you really want it to move, give it some throttle and a few revs in first before changing to second where the midrange is on song, then you realise quite how bloody quick it can be. For a less insane but also pleasant experience, short shift up to third / fourth and open the throttle wide at low revs, and you’re rewarded with a beautiful snarl from the air box as it gently plays with the lower edge of the midrange power.
This is the benefit of the three cylinder layout at work - enough grunt that you can use the bottom end, and never have to rev it and slip the clutch to get it moving like some of the more race tuned fours, but also seemingly endless amounts of midrange to play with, with a silky smooth progression of power, and no big jumps. At any given time you could be in three different gears and it’s quite helpful to have the gear position indicator on the dash in case you forget. For this reason, your question is a very reasonable one - I think it means you’re starting to get a feel for its character. The one thing you won’t know yet during your run in, is that the one compromise for this endless midrange is that there’s not much of an extra surge at the top of the rev range, in the way that an old R6 would go mental over 10k. So there’s no need for chasing the red line, it’s more about using that howling midrange. The exception might be the new 765RS version, which has much more racey tuning - but in spite of the press going mad over it, this wouldn’t be my first choice, the old bike and the R are more about that big useable spread of howling midrange with the perfect balance of torque and revs. Just have fun and explore it, it’s like an instrument that can play any tune.
I would echo the view ride it so it feels responsive. You drive high performance cars and you know how they feel when on song. Bikes like the Ducati Scrambler used to ship with no tacho. I think later variants have a dual display. On my gs I literally dont bother with the tacho, my lil 700cc runs appx 30 limits second gear, 50’s 3/4 etc. I just judge the gear based on the response and lack of vibes.
My two stroke 250 is as flat as a fluke under 6k and all over by 10.5
Sounds like you are enjoying the bike though, well done.
Steve
Tony, you really are trying too hard and over analysing. I fail to understand why. Just ride the bloody thing, as you see fit and feel comfortable. Bit like riding a bicycle.
The only way to ride a bike is like you stole it 👹
There’s a reason I’m no longer allowed a bike and I suspect that’s it 😕
Hi Chap, Like post no 2 I think you're overthinking it. We're taught in cars to get into the highest gear possible and slog around (worse thing for running in!), that doesn't apply to bikes, repeat the mantra, Right Gear, right time, ensure you can both accelerate or decelerate depending on conditions, you will get the "feel" for it, it's both about learning your new bike and learning being on a bike.
Best advice is to get on a bikesafe course or get some training and read Roadcraft (the system). I've been riding 40 odd years and have had the same bike for nearly 18 years but can still find new things to appreciate and doing a bikesafe recently was an eye opener, every day's a schoolday! Cheers, John B4
[QUOTE=bootneck;4975299]The only way to ride a bike is like you stole it
I used to ride my Triple like I stole it until someone stole it.
Advice? If it's still in warranty rag the arse off it.
A couple of beers and I don't know my arse from my elbow...I should have said "to not put the engine under excessive load by being in too high a gear"A bit of advice I got many years ago was to not put the engine under excessive load by being in too low a gear, particularly when accelerating.
Admittedly this was when engines weren't as refined or robust as they are now but I think the advice still holds true - your big ends may thank you for it
(at high revs, the rev limiter provides engine protection but there's nothing other than common sense protecting the engine from low revs)
Tony,
Some riders prefer silky smooth high revving IL4s and are happy revving out every gear whenever given the chance. I'm not one of those riders as I find it harder to maintain smooth progress on the road. On track, however, when you have the chance to wind out every gear with the space to do so, then it makes sense.
There is no right/wrong answer to this, but I do know what works for me and my style of riding: big V-twin torque-laden engines with low inertia. I'm a bigger fan of big v-twins with their torque lower down the rev range. I'm not bothered if they do not rev to 16,000rpm as I almost never ride there. Most of my fast road riding is between 5-8k rpm and I just carry corner speed and look far down the road. And for that kind of riding at those revs, an IL4 typically produces less power and torque compared to a V-twin.
You\'d love this new motor then, Jason.
Actually, that would have me round the 9000rpm mark, where all the fun is
Yes, even the Twin would pull like a... a pully thing at maximum revs.
Yes, I understand the principle... I guess I was just asking if I was going a little too easy on the engine. It still feels great between 3 and 5k, but definitely not as great as it does at 7!
I'll quote you in court, if I may
Funnily enough, I did pretty much drop a gear from my normal style when I was out today (the roads were almost empty, for some reason). It was MUCH more fun(although not quite as much fun as that bloke on the Honda had!)
The reasoning relates to the bedding in of the piston rings, Stuart. They need to make as perfect a seal as possible, and there are two schools of thought as to how best to achieve this. Essentially (but within certain parameters for each), one says watch your revs, whilst the other says give it some welly.
Yes,I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence, Andy.
Thanks for that, Guy - interesting and helpful read. I think your right in that I'm really getting a feel for the bike now, and that's why I'm questioning the way I ride; I think it's a valid thing to do having now settled down on two wheels, and also having felt me confidence on the bike grow very significantly.
I'm LOVING it, Steve, thank you. I had no tacho on the Twin, but because it was such a loud and deep rumble from the exhaust pretty much across the rev band it was much harder to get a real feel for what it was doing. On the Triple I could indeed get by without one.
No, I think you're missing the point, Simon. I feel perfectly comfortable on it, but think it was a perfectly valid question/discussion. I suppose I want to test myself, and the bike, a little more.
I'm intending to look at some courses for next spring, actually. Roadcract is actually sitting here on my desk. The issue I was talking about probably has no more than a tenuous connection with driving safely, though .
Don't worry, I knew what you meantA couple of beers and I don't know my arse from my elbow...I should have said "to not put the engine under excessive load by being in too high a gear"
What has been said here a few times, that motor is very flexible and not a screamer. The first time I rode one I was expecting it to be all top end fireworks but it just pulls linearly from quite low revs with no top end rush, so just use whatever revs you need to get the acceleration you want.
You don’t goto court if youre on an Autobahn or Track Day!!!!I'll quote you in court, if I may
RIAC
A&E is always a possibility..............
And where bikers are affectionately known as organ-donors...
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Hold on I’ll just cover myself in bubble wrap. If not always good to know I can help others live whilst actually living myself
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RIAC
this pretty much sums it up for me , as i said in another thread -my best friend who i had known for 40yrs died earlier this year in a motorcycle accident , i was 100yrds behind him and we were within the speed limit , when your time is up thats it , i continue to ride knowing he died doing something he loved doing , we take chances every day thats what life is about.
Well said indeed. Never feel more connected to life than when I’m riding my motorbike. Makes you addicted to being ALIVE.
I’ve become numb and bored to hearing how dangerous bikes are.
Here’s a question is it better to shoot and animal dead or torture it to death slowly?
Well look at the nation who are facing a diabetes epidemic and shovelling processed foods, cigarettes, booze and all other sorts into themselves thus killing themselves, the next generation and the NHS. They are usually the ones on the soapbox preaching how dangerous bikes are. No mate bikes are great fun. They make you feel alive and the fat guy eating crisps in his car is usually the one that kills the rider or they simply reach a point where ability and road run out.
Either way if you want to bang on about danger then make sure that you don’t fall off that high horse you’re sitting on as it might hurt.
Rant over. Happy Christmas to bikers and abstainers alike.
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RIAC
Just to add to my previous comments about the flexibility of the triple, it also applies to the handling. If you want to relax you can ride it like a police rider, bolt upright and using the wide bars, barely a turn of the head to point you into a corner, no body movement to upset the suspension. Particularly when the fuel is low and the front end is turning quickly, it’s strangely satisfying and gives you a great feeling of backside to rear wheel to road connection through the corners. But shift your bum back, crouch down and start hanging off it front and back like Marquez as you trail brake counter-steering into corners, and you’ll be reminded that you’re on a chassis built for super sport racing. Both styles have their charm.
It’s also worth mentioning that the engine will sound harsher if you use higher revs on part throttle when you don’t actually need them - what it really likes is accelerating with a big handful so there’s plenty of air and fuel to keep ahead of the rising revs. Then the air box starts getting pretty musical. This also applies in first gear, at first it feels like you don’t want to give it too much or you’re going to hit warp speed and / or flip the bike, but in reality things just get smoother beyond a certain point. Though you are probably on the way to doing 0-60 in three seconds, so you will still want to change up and back off reasonably soon!
Having said that, mine is an older and more analogue bike (second generation, low exhaust but no ABS), the new electronics and engine maps may respond differently. I did test ride the new RS and was surprised that in spite of the slightly larger capacity, if anything it had less in the bottom half of the rev range where I actually wanted it for city riding. It also gave me cramp and I had to get off it and stretch my legs! To enjoy its power band was likely to mean breaking the speed limit, certainly around town, which isn’t the point of a street triple for me, that was always the problem with the more racey super sports 600 fours, they only wake up when you’re on the way to 60+. If I was upgrading I’d be looking at the more torquey R, though frankly there’s no need to.
Last edited by Itsguy; 23rd December 2018 at 12:57.
Swap it for something with less revs and more torque. 😁
Speed twin maybe?Swap it for something with less revs and more torque.
Or just have both; eventually you’re going to want a sports bike, a cruiser, a tourer and an off roader at the very least!
It's all very well for experienced riders to say a new rider or someone coming back to riding is over thinking things, but... there are different ways to ride different bikes, and very different ways to ride the same bike. I can ride my GS flat out on full throttle a lot of the time over here, as the roads allow and the bike is nowhere near as quick as my S or the Fireblade. I wouldn't be revving the balls off a sportsbike for that much of a ride on the road though.
The triple is very tractable engine configuration, and will pull from quite low revs, but again just like in a car you should be in the correct gear for your riding style at the time -you should always make sure the bike will be responsive when you twist the throttle, in any gear,you are riding inc at any time - of course when you are more comfortable/experienced you can ride around at much lower revs when just dawdling about, as you are possibly very well acquainted with changing down in a fraction of a second. For a newer rider I'd recommend not sitting at higher or lower revs though (dependent on the current ride out), as it's just one more thing to think about when you could just be enjoying riding the thing. For example you see a lot of people riding around here at TT at much higher than they need to, inside the speed limits, just in case they get a chance to over take!
It's just a matter of time...
Anyone risk averse should probably steer clear of bikes, Kerry.
Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that the R is the better option unless you're using the bike on a track.
I'm already lusting after just such a selection!
Thanks, Scott.
Anyone risk averse should steer clear of life
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RIAC
Tony, as I think you know I've owned my Street Triple for 11 years now.
Well I bought it because at the time I owned two bikes that were chalk and cheese, a Ducati M900 monster and a Kawasaki ZX6R. I'd decided that I wanted to reduce the two to one and have the best of both worlds: some of the torque and relaxed riding position of the Monster, with some of the high end of the ZX6R. At the time the Street didn't exist and I test rode a load of bikes without finding what I wanted. I'd ridden the Speed Triple and thought that a smaller, lighter version would be perfect. Well that week Triumph announced the Street and I ordered one the next week without even having ridden one. 11 years later no regrets.
So the point of this is that leaving aside the small, light, wieildiness of the bike that makes it works perfectly in the real world, the triumph (pun intended) of the bike is the engine that is as happy delivering some, if not all, of the grunt of the Monster, whilst also some, but not all, of the top end of the ZX6R. But, as it's so light, in the real world, there's not much difference in fact.
So my point is you can ride it how you want, mine pulls happily from 30mph in 6th, or you can cane it from the line full bore full max, as you want. It does the lot. That is its beauty.
I know you like to analyse things a lot, I saw that in your thread re choosing your bike and we know how well that went in the end! Sometimes, and I think now is that time for you, just go out and ride, play with it, and find your own sweet spot with the bike. There really isn't a right answer to your question, because only you can answer it, for the way you want to enjoy your bike. Don't be swayed by some opinions on the internet, find it out for yourself.
That all makes a lot of sense, Simon - thanks, mate. I think I’ve probably seen that it does pretty much everything you ask of it very well, and I’ve already grown to love it.
I suppose my question arose because I’ve been riding it fairly easily for the most part. Then, yesterday, I decided to test it a bit more as the roads were nice and quiet for some reason.
Anyway, I really enjoyed giving the engine a bit more freedom, in a way that I couldn’t really do with the Twin, and all I was doing was wondering aloud whether that’s the way the bike was really intended to be ridden.... higher up the rev band, essentially.
I think I have the answer, and point taken about over-analysing. Ouch
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