10s a day is fine in my book, almost COSC
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I’m asking this question before I leave a comment in H&V as I’m not quite sure if I’m being to dramatic.
I spotted a watch in SC that I fancied purchasing. I admit I am a bit ocd about time keeping, I can accept +/- a few seconds per 24hrs but any more than that and it starts to do my head in, so I sent the seller a message to enquire what the time keeping was like. The seller said he would test it over the next 24hrs and the next day he messaged me saying it was spot on. I was happy with this and went ahead and made the purchase (not massive money but a fairly significant amount). I set the watch to an internet reliably accurate source and then checked it the next day, it had lost 10 seconds, the following day another 10 seconds. So I contacted the seller who responded by saying he knew it was losing time but he thought it was only a few seconds / day and not 10, before he got my money he said it was spot on !
Basically, he is not interested in his purchasers satisfaction and has offered no remorse or solution to this.
If you had a purchase based on these facts would you be a little bit unhappy, I feel I was lied to by the seller simply so I would purchase his watch.
Is it H&V or have a word with myself ?
10s a day is fine in my book, almost COSC
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Have you demag'd it?
Losing 10 a day wont be a magnetic issue.. it also is not COSC.. what is the watch brand? And if its in good condition otherwise just ask for a small refund and get it regulated
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Your being dramatic !!
I'd understand if it had been spot on in the seller's use but different in yours (given people's use and wear patterns differ) but to say it was bang on knowing it wasn't...is not great.
10s out, depending on the watch, is pretty damn good for anything non-COSC/similar standard, but I understand your issue in terms of what was stated by the seller compared to what was known.
Seller said it was spot on. 10s a day is indicative of a watch that needs a service, not just a regulation.
Sorry ,totally disagree.. depends what it was out of the box.. it cannot be used as an indication of service unless you know its history.. it could have been minus 10 out the box which isnt unusual..I could comment on the typical accuracy of the movement if we bad a clue to its origin.. base Seiko for example thats well within tolerance.. Omega PO .. not within etc etc
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I had exactly the same the same situation the other week, buyer wanted to know about time keeping on a watch that didn't hack or wind - so I sent it to him on approval for a day or two. He could keep it if happy and then pay me or return it if not happy.
Worked well, he did his own testing and was happy.
If obsessed by a second or two a day - buy a Quartz
A lot depends on what watch it is: 10s/d is pretty damn good on a Vostok but I'd pretty annoyed on a £1K+ Swiss watch. Might be worth getting it on a timegrapher to see the variations in different positions.
So a vintage piece then.. -10 a day more than acceptable in my book..
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I think 10 seconds is not exactly spot on however perhaps the seller did not test it very accurately? If it is annoying you maybe try wearing for a longer period and testing over a week with constant use to see if it gets any better?
Leave it dial up overnight.. see if it gains then
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I don’t see why anyone is discussing whether 10s is good or otherwise in absolute terms. The seller told the buyer it was “spot on” over 24hrs. That was not the case by the buyer’s understanding of the term, which he apparently took to mean “+/-0spd”
If a seller’s report on timekeeping was 10spd different from actual timekeeping, I’d be annoyed. That said, if I was OCD about it I would have made sure, as buyer, I knew what “spot on” meant in terms of spd. As seller, I would have quantified the timekeeping.
Come on...nobody could possibly think that a vintage watch described as 'spot on' could possibly mean +\- 0 seconds a day.
In complete agreement with those comments re questions and answers.. I bought a vintage Omega the other week with a picture of the timegrapher showing *1 per day.. when i got it the watch was losing 30seconds a day.. the seller asked me to post it to the watch repairer he used and I paid the return postage costs.. which he wouldnt cover!! I didnt post negative feedback over 24 pound but In hindsight I wish I had..
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I'd say it's performing within expectations for a watch that's going to be 50 years old and is non cosc. that said if i'd sold it and the buyer wasn't happy i'd take the watch back and refund.
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
If I was extremely concerned about time keeping, I would not be accepting loose terminology like "spot on". You're welcome to have whatever standards you like, but you can't assume that everyone else has exactly the same.
I've had three ETA 28xx movements from new, and all three were exactly 10s/d out - I began to wonder if it was deliberate....
I agree with you on the definition of spot on and -10 a day would bug me, however I would have been more probing on what the seller meant as spot on.
A 50 year old non COSC watch at -10 per day is ok but it would not be one for me.
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I had an SM300 with the 552 movement and it consistently kept to +7 secs per day. I would say -10 is still pretty good for what is probably a 40-year-old movement. Maybe not 'spot on', but near as dammit.
However, if my buyer was unhappy after I'd told him it was 'spot on', I would accept the return and refund him.
For every one person who can't deal with -10 secs per day, there will be 100 who won't see it as a problem, so I'd sell it again with the more accurate reading.
What did you think ‘spot on’ meant in the context of a 50 year old movement? Were you seriously expecting +/-0 secs pd?
If you knew you would not be happy with -10 from a 50 year old watch you should have asked for more information to clarify what ‘spot on’ meant before proceeding. You do have some responsibility for this.
Having said that the seller has left himself / herself in an awkward situation by giving a vague description, and if you are not happy should be offering a full or partial refund.
Last edited by vortgern; 13th December 2018 at 22:17.
The term "spot on" is massively open to interpretation and should have been quantified. Whilst +/- 10 secs is OK for a watch of that vintage, it could be a bit better, but +/- 0 secs for a vintage watch is unrealistic IMHO.
Anyway, it sounds like you've made up your mind that it's not acceptable for you, and you should ask for a refund from the seller.
Losing 0.012%, to three decimal places. Pretty good for vintage mechanical in my book. Up to you to decide whether the seller lied to you or not by describing it as ‘spot on’ though.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
I wish that’s all I had to worry about, get a grip lad
I read “spot on” as +- 1 to 2 seconds deviation over 24 hours. Anything more shouldn’t be described as such in my opinion. 10 seconds is a bit much for me, especially losing Tim, even a old vintage movement can be regulated to within COSC.
It may be good for the age, but if the response was spot on, that suggests spot on, and is too vague.
Regardless, the seller has provided vague information on a sale here on SC and got an unhappy buyer. Typically, if the buyer is not happy around here, then the sale is generally reversed - that is the type of place this is.
I have had situations like this both ways before, and have offered and been offered refunds (although not always been offered and I wouldn’t deal again). This is what should happen here
Quite unreasonable from my perspective ; 'spot on' is a vague term , and timing can depend on a whole range of factors...such as whether you were wearing it.
But I'd refund the money because I'd be happy to avoid such an OCD buyer, and who needs the hassle. And I like happy buyers.
But I wouldn't deal with him again.
Last edited by paskinner; 13th December 2018 at 23:01.
One man's spot on is another man's ten seconds. That's all I have to say.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
99.988% accurate is pretty spot on in my book. Not exactly spot on, but certainly pretty spot on enough for me......
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For a brand new 552 ten seconds a day would be within spec. It’ was never poised or balanced to be better than that. For a 552 I’d say spot on is an accurate description and you really should have known that about the movement. Even a 551 today would struggle to achieve that unless ver thouroughly srevived.
Mind you, I’ll happily swap it for a nice thermocompensated quartz that should give you around that a year...
Spot on has to be relative to the age and movement of the watch.
I’m fairly experienced at selling on SC and I’m always very careful with descriptions of condition and/or performance, tending to under-sell if anything so watch is better than described. I had an experience early on where I sold a Speedy as excellent condition, which it was to my naked eye, however buyer was a tad OCD on condition and spotted some brushing marks on side of case under a loupe. I refunded him a few quid to cover repolishing, job done and happy buyer. Since then have always been ultra careful with descriptions.
Spot on, to me, is too ambiguous and could mean anything from +/- 0 to +/- 10, so open to misinterpretation.
OP needs to get out more if 10secs on an old watch bothers him.
Mate if you’re that OCD about accuracy that minus 10 secs a day is unacceptable to you, then as others have said you should’ve qualified what ‘spot on’ actually meant.
If I had a 40 odd year old mechanical watch that was keeping time to within 10 secs a day I’d describe it as ‘spot on’ too. Unless someone asked me to be more specific - in which case I’d say it was keeping time to within 10 secs a day.
Looking at the OP's previous threads, am wondering if this was his first vintage watch....
This. I wonder how old the OP is? Some of us grew up wearing watches at school in the 1960s or 70s, cheap 1 jewel mechanicals that were often a minute or more out by the end of the day. An average of 10s out on a 50 year old movement, non-cosc, is a minor miracle that needs appreciation. I'm not sure if I would describe it as spot on but I would describe it as 'pretty good'.
People who are younger, who were lucky enough to have been bought a fancy mechanical in their teens, or who only stopped wearing shopping mall quartz a few years and have only been exposed to modern movements, might well think that 10s is a bit rubbish but in the grand scheme of things it's actually pretty good.
On vintage stuff (which is most of what I have right now) I don't even bother timing them as they get swapped on and off the wrist on a daily basis anyway. Who needs to know when you take it off at bedtime if it's precisely midnight or a minute or two before or after? Someone didn't buy the Seiko 6309 I was selling recently because I couldn't give a 'seconds per day' figure but I simply hadn't bothered to time it in the several years that I owned it.
I think you’re being too dramatic.
I would deem +/- 10secs a day on a vintage movement as ‘spot-on’.
Having said that, if you were looking for virtually quartz-level accuracy then I would have pressed the seller to clarify what was meant by ‘spot-on’.
In any event, have you asked the seller if he will take it back and give you your money back?
-10spd you say. Set it @ 30 secs fast at the start of the week, by midweek it'll be cock on, by the weekend @ 30 secs slow. That's what I do.
F.T.F.A.
Finally some sense - great answer!
But seriously OP if you’re unhappy with the time keeping approach the seller and politely ask for a refund. If they’ve seen this thread they will most likely have offered you one already, and you may possibly want to reconsider purchasing vintage pieces in the future.
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I think you need to revise your expectations, you’re looking at a watch that’s old and worn, do you really expect ‘service’ to make the watch run like new?
Some folks are better off avoiding vintage watches, I suspect you’re one of them.
I could reply at great length to qualify my comments.........I think I’d be wasting my time.
If you buy a vintage watch you should always budget for getting it serviced and sorted out, if you don’t like the rules don’t play the game.
What I find annoying about posts like this is the way the OP conceals all the relevent information at the start......why do they do this?