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Thread: AD: where’s the value add?

  1. #1
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    AD: where’s the value add?

    I’ve visited a few ADs over the last week or so in my on-going PRO or FOIS Speedmaster or A.N. Other watch procrastination (or new boiler to keep family warm through the winter - pah).

    Couple of issues I have:

    First, in my head a FOIS/PRO is 20% cheaper than RRP (only because various posters have suggested this or better may be achievable). Best actual offer so far is 5% discount, although I haven’t seriously tried “flashing the cash” yet.

    Second, I was expecting some level of product knowledge or expertise at the AD to at least guide my decision and give confidence about quality of after sales service - this has been very variable at best. Perhaps I’ve been unlucky.

    So if I buy at an AD vs buying from, say, an online broker, the only plus point appears to be to see/touch/try on the watch first. I don’t want to undervalue this, but wonder if anyone out there has other opinions on AD value add?

    By the way I’ve no interest in building up credits with an AD to bump me up some unobtainium list.

  2. #2
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I think it's a big ask to expect an interest or knowledge of the product. Clearly in an ideal world they should, but most are just retail suits or skirts selling a boxed product with a price tag on it. It might as well be a box of smellies.

    You pay full price in the main, but get the certainty of buying a genuine product.

    Personally, I would focus on getting the best price, rather than the best cup of coffee and buy from the likes of Iconic etc who are well respected, but will offer discounts over a AD.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    I recently bought something from the Seiko boutique which I could have got for 25-30% less from a Spanish eBay seller. For my money I got: no worrying about authenticity; no worrying about where in the world the warranty was valid; a third year of warranty; the watch on my wrist the same day I decided I wanted it; the ability to reject the first one they brought out in favour of another they had in stock; having the bracelet sized; not having to be in for a delivery; not having to worry about the possible necessity of returning it; not having a language barrier with the seller; all the time I wanted in a comfy chair making my decision; two very cheap nasty biros. For this particular purchase, this was all appreciated (except the biros)

  4. #4
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    Free coffee😀😀

    In all seriousness, quality of sales staff varies greatly but at the end of the day, they all want a sale. Not all of them recognise that making us feel special and warm inside helps lead to that.

    On the discount front, you are unlikely to get offered very much based on a casual enquiry. Negotiation is best done when you have the watch you want on your wrist and telling them you want to but it now. Be armed with the “grey” price and tell them you will buy it if they can match it. In reality they are unlikely to match it but they may well go a good part of the way if they think you will walk away otherwise.

    They may try the “could be fakes” or “no warranty” lines, but showing you know your stuff helps.

    FWIW, for omega, I’ve found beaverbrooks more willing than goldsmiths to move on price.

  5. #5
    Master
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    Unfortunately, yes in my limited experience it is at best a 50/50 chance of meeting a SA with knowledge of and passion for their chosen trade. If you know your stuff then distance buying is fine. I guess it's always a balance of whether you prefer the experience of a face to face interaction and the ability to address any problems face to face with the 100% knowledge that the dealer actually received your watch. I live about 90 miles away from any knowledgeable dealers but I still prefer the personal touch. In fact my recent Seiko purchase involved travelling 190 miles to London - but it gave me an excuse to visit my children so for me it was a win win situation.
    Last edited by Suds; 2nd December 2018 at 17:16.

  6. #6
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Little knowledge and high prices, but sometimes it's nice to go in and buy something.

    I tried something on a few years back and my daughter was with me, at the time struggling a bit with her final year at University.

    She took a liking to a Tissot and I rashly promised to buy it for her if she got a good degree.

    Months later we were back buying it, as she'd done well.

    I could have saved some money buying online, but the AD experience was, for both of us, a pleasure which we shared.

    M

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  7. #7
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    Some good points there, thanks everyone.

    I don’t really want to contribute to the demise of the high street, but i guess there’s a limit to the extra I’m willing to pay for a so so experience.

    Regarding rejecting a watch in favour of another one in stock, I had always assumed (for more expensive items) that the watch in the window is the only one they had, and that also puts me off a bit (i.e. it’s been manhandled already - will I spot a scratch before I get it home?) Maybe that’s not the case, in a boutique at least - I’ll ask next time.

  8. #8
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    I recently bought something from the Seiko boutique which I could have got for 25-30% less from a Spanish eBay seller. For my money I got: no worrying about authenticity; no worrying about where in the world the warranty was valid; a third year of warranty; the watch on my wrist the same day I decided I wanted it; the ability to reject the first one they brought out in favour of another they had in stock; having the bracelet sized; not having to be in for a delivery; not having to worry about the possible necessity of returning it; not having a language barrier with the seller; all the time I wanted in a comfy chair making my decision; two very cheap nasty biros. For this particular purchase, this was all appreciated (except the biros)
    If the difference was only 5% then the AD would probably get my money, but I'd rather take the 25-30% discount any day.

    As long as you do your research on the seller then all of the above is just fluff.

  9. #9
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    I asked an AD for a different omega PO a few (a good few) years ago as the bezel pip didn’t quite line up properly. They ordered a brand new one in which only took a week or so. It was fully stickered up so seemed “box fresh” too.

    Still honoured the discount I had agreed with them too!

    Good service does exist in ADs (my experience has been mostly positive tbh) but you have to weigh up how much you value that over the available discount elsewhere.

  10. #10
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    If the difference was only 5% then the AD would probably get my money, but I'd rather take the 25-30% discount any day.

    As long as you do your research on the seller then all of the above is just fluff.
    I had already done my research on the eBay seller, and had no reason not to give him a go. But on that occasion I wanted all of that "fluff". Watches are just fluff too, anyway. For that specific purchase, on that specific day, all of those things were things I wanted, and was more than happy to pay for. Except the biros.

  11. #11
    Master
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    Nothing wrong with a bit of fluff ...

    This is what I’m after

    https://youtu.be/E3rB_qx0wRM

  12. #12
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    ^ Love that scene! Not that I'm a fan of the film you understand...

  13. #13
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    I had already done my research on the eBay seller, and had no reason not to give him a go. But on that occasion I wanted all of that "fluff". Watches are just fluff too, anyway. For that specific purchase, on that specific day, all of those things were things I wanted, and was more than happy to pay for. Except the biros.
    Fair enough. This whole business is a form of insanity so I can almost see the logic behind your decision.

  14. #14
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    If unlucky enough to have a problem with a new Rolex...and I have at times....there's simply no comparison. I outlined the issue, the AD immediately ordered me a new watch. Try that when buying 'grey.'
    Again, I once had a problem with a watch-winder. It was replaced on the spot.
    I have bought Rolexes 'grey', but I know it's better to buy from a Rolex AD if you can. Often cheaper, too! All this assumes, of course, that you find a good dealer.
    Last edited by paskinner; 2nd December 2018 at 21:30.

  15. #15
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    In most cases, there s little value add. Society is now very comfortable buying online so a dealer only exists because the manufacturer continues to support such a business model, presumably to maintain the luxury illusion. They sure dont exist because they are making a technical sale because as noted, the sales people for the most part hold little product knowledge.

    I spent yesterday wandering some of the biggest electronic stores in Tokyo. Yodobashi Camera has an incredible range of every watch brand imaginable. all jammed in generic glass cases. Rolex next to Citizen, Patek, Franc Muller, you name it. Watch egalitarianism if there is such a thing with no sales fuss or pretentiousness. The prices though are anything but, new Rolexes are selling at market prices here.
    Last edited by mondie; 2nd December 2018 at 21:35.

  16. #16
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    Dangerous places to be AD’s. It’s really easy to massively up your budget when you check something more expensive out before you buy what you went in there for... ‘Just to be sure you’re making the right choice...’

  17. #17
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    AD: where’s the value add?

    Quote Originally Posted by mondie View Post
    because as noted, the sales people for the most part hold little product knowledge.
    This annoys me, based on wanting to be really good in what I do at work, and training my team to be knowledgable in their area, and I don’t know why most ADs are just Sales people without knowledge.

  18. #18
    Sometimes I go in to buy something, most of the time I just pop in for a chat with the manager. He's a nice chap. It's good to talk to real people every now and then.

  19. #19
    Master mondie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobetobes View Post
    This annoys me, based on wanting to be really good in what I do at work, and training my team to be knowledgable in their area, and I don’t know why most ADs are just Sales people without knowledge.
    I agree but they can get away with it so they do. Enthusiasts are not your typical watch buyer

  20. #20
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    I've bought from both AD and grey. In my opinion, the premium that ADs command is not worth it. However, I do understand that some people just like the whole buying experience in a shop. My analogy is you can pay for afternoon tea at the Ritz, which I'm sure is a nice experience. But you can also go to your local cafe and get some nice sandwiches!

  21. #21
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    When looking for my Speedy Pro, I was recommended to an AD by 2 other members here. I got 20% straight off, was given drinks & shown some really cool pieces from the AD's collection, we discussed music, motorcycle racing as well as watches & I had a wonderful buying experience. So much so that I returned to buy the wife an Aqua Terra for her birthday.
    By contrast, my local AD was miserable, not really interested & not keen to match the discount.
    It was well worth the trip to the recommended AD, it was a brilliant day & the story adds to the experience.
    Last edited by Speedy2254; 2nd December 2018 at 23:01. Reason: Fat finger syndrome

  22. #22
    Think it’s fair to say most of us here know a great deal more about the product than the retailer. To be honest the way things are going in retail I don’t think I’ve ever been sold something that was in any way influenced by a knowledgeable salesperson. More often than not I find their attempts very awkward and embarrassing and as a result I avoid any discussion with them especially if they ask if you’d like a drink. Can’t belive some people feel pampered and enjoy the experience!

  23. #23
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    To me, it's not about the shop 'experience', I don't want a free coffee or whatever. It's about back-up and support. And, in my experience, no internet based 'grey' seller ever matches that. Find a good, experienced, dealer, stick with him. Strangely enough, it's not even more expensive in the longer run.
    If stores don't offer good value, they won't survive. Which is fair enough. But I don't want our towns full of only charity shops and coffee cafes. There has to be room for both shops and the internet.
    Last edited by paskinner; 3rd December 2018 at 07:35.

  24. #24
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    I've found independent AD's to be both far more knowledgeable and inclined to give a reasonable discount than your chains like goldsmiths or beaverbrooks etc.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    To me, it's not about the shop 'experience', I don't want a free coffee or whatever. It's about back-up and support. And, in my experience, no internet based 'grey' seller ever matches that. Find a good, experienced, dealer, stick with him. Strangely enough, it's not even more expensive in the longer run.
    If stores don't offer good value, they won't survive. Which is fair enough. But I don't want our towns full of only charity shops and coffee cafes. There has to be room for both shops and the internet.
    PASkinner, you're right, backup & support are important. But there's also that intangible thing, the "Feelgood factor" that contributes to the buying experience. My local AD, a national chain, would have sold me a Speedy pro & I could have walked home with it, I'm that close to the shop. However, they weren't "watch People", they were nice, pleasant people but they would have sold me a spoon with the same efficiency as a £3.5K watch.
    If I'm laying out what, for me, is a lot of cash, I want to enjoy the experience. If I'd bought from the local AD I'd have been sold the Speedy from the window, at a minimal discount & ushered out the door without so much as a drink or a bar of Led Zeppelin. It would have soured how I felt about the watch.
    In contrast, I followed up the recommendation of 2 members here & travelled from Maidstone to NW London to an independent AD where I had a really good experience. I enjoyed the whole day, the way I was greeted at the second AD was exceptional & I couldn't be happier with the service or the watch & I later returned to buy a watch for my wife.
    I can't disagree with your assertion but personally I'm more inclined to give my money to the guy who shows he's keen to have it rather than the one who doesn't really want to give much in return for the cash.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    To me, it's not about the shop 'experience', I don't want a free coffee or whatever. It's about back-up and support. And, in my experience, no internet based 'grey' seller ever matches that. Find a good, experienced, dealer, stick with him. Strangely enough, it's not even more expensive in the longer run.
    If stores don't offer good value, they won't survive. Which is fair enough. But I don't want our towns full of only charity shops and coffee cafes. There has to be room for both shops and the internet.
    Sorry, tried deleting this duplicate quote but it won't stay deleted!
    Last edited by Speedy2254; 3rd December 2018 at 11:36.

  27. #27
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    OP just buy either from a decent feedback UK dealer on Chrono24 for £2.5K and if you don't like it send it back. Don't waste a grand in an AD for the sake of trying it on in a glitzy hard-sell environment and a cup of coffee, it's not worth it. Even if you keep it past the returnable date for £2.5K the depreciation curve has flattened out and you'll get your money back especially the Pro.

  28. #28
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    I have two Omega's - a Speedmaster ‘57 and a SMPc 300 diver. I tried them both on each time I passed a shop that had one, over a period of a couple of months. Then I went looking. I managed to get both as grey imports in UK dealers. The £6,000 Speedmaster I got for £4,750, unworn from Watchfinder with 3 years 9 months of the 4 year guarantee still on it and the £2,920 SMPc I got for £2,350 unworn from Browns Family Jewellers’s, with 2 years 11 months of the 3 year guarantee on it. You’ve got to be prepared to wait and look on a weekly basis to get a good price. In fact, I got a further £100 off the SMPc as I took out an Amex rewards card that gave £100 back if you spent more than £2k in the first 3 months (plus a couple of free airport lounge visits).
    Last edited by Motman; 3rd December 2018 at 19:42.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy2254 View Post
    In contrast, I followed up the recommendation of 2 members here & travelled from Maidstone to NW London to an independent AD where I had a really good experience. I enjoyed the whole day, the way I was greeted at the second AD was exceptional & I couldn't be happier with the service or the watch & I later returned to buy a watch for my wife.
    I can't disagree with your assertion but personally I'm more inclined to give my money to the guy who shows he's keen to have it rather than the one who doesn't really want to give much in return for the cash.
    Feel free to pass-on those recommendations.

  30. #30
    Master mycroft's Avatar
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    As a North West London dweller I’d also like to know the identity of the recommended AD please!

    Simon

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MST View Post
    Feel free to pass-on those recommendations.
    PM sent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft View Post
    As a North West London dweller I’d also like to know the identity of the recommended AD please!

    Simon
    PM sent.

  32. #32
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    There are plenty of authorised Omega dealers who give excellent discounts with no bother. Can't see why you'd need to travel far to get a decent deal. As for all the views about the 'experience'......I expect to be treated politely, and helpfully, but that's enough.

    Incidentally, I live in a small town but was offered 15% from an authorised AD without even asking.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy2254 View Post
    PM sent.

    - - - Updated - - -



    PM sent.
    Thanks Jason.

    Simon

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    There are plenty of authorised Omega dealers who give excellent discounts with no bother. Can't see why you'd need to travel far to get a decent deal. As for all the views about the 'experience'......I expect to be treated politely, and helpfully, but that's enough.

    Incidentally, I live in a small town but was offered 15% from an authorised AD without even asking.
    I dare say there are plenty of ADs around. I went to the one that offered me the best price. Had my local AD offered the best price I'd have bought it there & strolled home. Thing is, I'd have felt a bit flat about the transaction &, by extension, the watch.
    Doing it the way I did, I got a good deal, from a good dealer, for no outlay beyond the time I spent (just over an hour) on the train to London, for which I already had a ticket.
    I had a good time & really enjoyed the day & the purchase & I love the watch.
    It just worked for me, I had a good day & got a watch I love, the rapport between me & the AD is important. I worked in retail & tried to make it enjoyable for the customer. It's not important to everyone but each to their own...

  35. #35
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    A matter of choice then ; I wouldn't make a two-hour round trip to buy a watch routinely available in the local High Street.
    Local is good, and far more convenient. Otherwise, you might as well use the internet. Plenty of good prices, decent service and no travel at all.

  36. #36
    I made a special trip to London to buy my Speedie from the Omega boutique. It's a once in a lifetime purchase (for me, in any case!) and I wanted it to have the provenance of a proper Omega dealer on the warranty cards and such.

    They're a really lovely bunch in there, and always accommodate - I first went in by myself just for a look, and they couldn't have been nicer. That led me to taking a friend down when he needed a new strap for his Aqua Terra. They showed him all the options, in the flesh, then fitted a couple to show him, while we drank nice coffee, and then they fitted his choice, moving his buckle over etc. all for no extra charge.

    Since then I've been 2-3 times, and the chap with the dreadlocks and the Z-33 remembered me when I came to buy my Speedie - I was choosing between the new X-33 and the classic Moonwatch, they spent an hour going over the various merits of each one, sourced three different X-33s so I could choose the one that hit the markers when it ticked. In the end I walked out with a Moonwatch. Sure, I could have got a good deal off (at the time I think it was nearly £500) retail elsewhere, but they did give me a little discount. I also got a lovely pen, some random moon-themed notepaper and that year's catalogues to keep with the box etc.

    All in all, it's just a much nicer experience. I have fond memories of when I bought that watch now.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    So if I buy at an AD vs buying from, say, an online broker, the only plus point appears to be to see/touch/try on the watch first.
    You can try it on in the shop then buy it online

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    A matter of choice then ; I wouldn't make a two-hour round trip to buy a watch routinely available in the local High Street.
    Local is good, and far more convenient. Otherwise, you might as well use the internet. Plenty of good prices, decent service and no travel at all.
    Really I went in order to get the best deal I could. I have a season ticket so the trip cost nothing. The guys on here told me the service would be great & it was.
    You're right in one way but I really ended up having a good day out. If your way worked for you then I reckon we're both right...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy2254 View Post
    When looking for my Speedy Pro, I was recommended to an AD by 2 other members here. I got 20% straight off, was given drinks & shown some really cool pieces from the AD's collection, we discussed music, motorcycle racing as well as watches & I had a wonderful buying experience. So much so that I returned to buy the wife an Aqua Terra for her birthday.
    By contrast, my local AD was miserable, not really interested & not keen to match the discount.
    It was well worth the trip to the recommended AD, it was a brilliant day & the story adds to the experience.
    Can you pass on the info of those ADs? I'm in the market for a Speedie myself, based in Cambridge so would be able to pop by London to check them out.
    Thanks

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darklel View Post
    Can you pass on the info of those ADs? I'm in the market for a Speedie myself, based in Cambridge so would be able to pop by London to check them out.
    Thanks
    PM Inbound.

  41. #41
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    AD: where’s the value add?

    So, now very pleased to be able to answer my own question.

    Three different experiences:

    Tried my local independent AD - very nice, very knowledgeable, very expensive rent I’m sure. Unfortunately didn’t have the watch I was after, and could only offer me a 5% discount on a Speedy Pro that I tried on. Came out with both Rolex and Tudor catalogues in a nice bag with a gold ribbon (obviously the sprinkles are reserved for paying customers...) Would definitely go back, certainly if I were ever to try to join a list for RRP purchase.

    Second up, major high street AD close to work. Still very pleasant but not nearly as knowledgeable - felt more like I was in a mobile phone shop than a jeweller. A discount was mentioned but they wouldn’t talk numbers until I was ready to buy which is fair enough. That wasn’t the shop for me on that day.

    Third, another (different) high street AD in the same area as the last one, a few days later and in my lunch break. Totally different experience, met with their Omega specialist who talked me through the history of the company and gave me a bit of sales patter.

    I couldn’t see the watch I was interested in behind the counter so I asked if they had one in stock ... “you mean this one?” she said, leading me to the middle of the shop where there was a large pedestal with a glass display cabinet on top and MY WATCH inside, sitting in its box beckoning me. It just felt special.

    A bit of trying on and more spiel (sales rep went a bit astray here talking about co-axial movements and automatics...good information, wrong watch), tried on a seamaster 300 just to make sure I was making the right decision, then the money talk.

    I said I was ready to buy but was looking for a discount and that I could get 20% off online. To my surprise she immediately said she would match that, although they wouldn’t normally price match an online offering (damn, too easy - should have asked for more!!)

    So, long story short, I had a very pleasant experience at an AD, bought a watch at a price that I’m happy with and they made a sale that they are happy with. Everyone wins (and 3 weeks before Christmas - wouldn’t normally expect that to be a good time for a discount).

    First....wha? ;-)



    This...


  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    So, now very pleased to be able to answer my own question.

    Three different experiences:

    Tried my local independent AD - very nice, very knowledgeable, very expensive rent I’m sure. Unfortunately didn’t have the watch I was after, and could only offer me a 5% discount on a Speedy Pro that I tried on. Came out with both Rolex and Tudor catalogues in a nice bag with a gold ribbon (obviously the sprinkles are reserved for paying customers...) Would definitely go back, certainly if I were ever to try to join a list for RRP purchase.

    Second up, major high street AD close to work. Still very pleasant but not nearly as knowledgeable - felt more like I was in a mobile phone shop than a jeweller. A discount was mentioned but they wouldn’t talk numbers until I was ready to buy which is fair enough. That wasn’t the shop for me on that day.

    Third, another (different) high street AD in the same area as the last one, a few days later and in my lunch break. Totally different experience, met with their Omega specialist who talked me through the history of the company and gave me a bit of sales patter.

    I couldn’t see the watch I was interested in behind the counter so I asked if they had one in stock ... “you mean this one?” she said, leading me to the middle of the shop where there was a large pedestal with a glass display cabinet on top and MY WATCH inside, sitting in its box beckoning me. It just felt special.

    A bit of trying on and more spiel (sales rep went a bit astray here talking about co-axial movements and automatics...good information, wrong watch), tried on a seamaster 300 just to make sure I was making the right decision, then the money talk.

    I said I was ready to buy but was looking for a discount and that I could get 20% off online. To my surprise she immediately said she would match that, although they wouldn’t normally price match an online offering (damn, too easy - should have asked for more!!)

    So, long story short, I had a very pleasant experience at an AD, bought a watch at a price that I’m happy with and they made a sale that they are happy with. Everyone wins (and 3 weeks before Christmas - wouldn’t normally expect that to be a good time for a discount).

    First....wha? ;-)



    This...

    Phil,
    That's really nice. Glad you had a good experience!

  43. #43
    Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sussex, UK
    Posts
    5,128
    That's the way to do it; bit of foot leather, polite but firm request for the discount. Smile and hope....often works.

  44. #44
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    London
    Posts
    99
    "is nowhere"

    :)

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