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Thread: Not safe as a seller receiving Paypal....i lost both watch, money and confidence....

  1. #151
    Journeyman ChromeJob's Avatar
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    Not safe as a seller receiving Paypal....i lost both watch, money and confidence....

    Quote Originally Posted by asteclaru View Post
    It would depend on Singaporean law, which, in this case, would be the Sales of Goods Act :

    https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/SGA1979#pr24-

    I've only had a quick scan, but it seems that once payment has been made, unless otherwise agreed, the seller must deliver the goods to the buyer (Part IV, Article 29) and the buyer can claim that goods have not been delivered to them if the goods are lost or damaged in transit (see Part IV, Article 32, Paragraph 2)

    To me, this reads that the seller is responsible for the goods reaching the buyer
    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Forget that - basic contract law is enough - the buyer has a contract that is unfilled - the problem rests with the seller.
    Unless the seller mislabeled the package (“watch parts” not “watch”), or did not require signature delivery,…*the seller appears to have made reasonable, responsible efforts to deliver to the buyer. And the seller has been given signature proof that the package has been successfully delivered to the recipient.

    The buyer has to pursue the claim that it was not delivered TO HIM. Apparently the buyer, or his agent (the creditor), made a fraudulent claim to Paypal that it was “not as described.”
    Last edited by ChromeJob; 6th December 2018 at 18:47.

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Forget that - basic contract law is enough - the buyer has a contract that is unfilled - the problem rests with the seller.
    Buyer can't prove it unfilled - the only evidence backs up the seller.

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    Unless the seller mislabeled the package (“watch parts” not “watch”), or did not require signature delivery,…*the seller appears to have made reasonable, responsible efforts to deliver to the buyer. And the seller has been given signature proof that the package has been successfully delivered to the recipient.

    The buyer has to pursue the claim that it was not delivered TO HIM. Apparently the buyer, or his agent (the creditor), made a fraudulent claim to Paypal that it was “not as described.”
    By lodging an ‘item not as described’ claim and receiving a payout for same the CC company have IMO accepted the item was delivered.


    Given that there is ‘proof’ of delivery and a payout for an ‘item not as described’ claim, the seller is IMO entitled to pursue the return of his watch.


    If we accept that the item wasn’t delivered - as has been protested - then we have to accept that the grounds for the CC claim (wherever that claim originated) are false.


    Isn’t the right thing for the buyer to reverse the CC company’s ‘item not as described’ repayment, and pursue an ‘item not delivered’ repayment?


    I’m frankly disheartened by the number of posters willing to overlook an apparently false CC claim, which leaves the seller out of pocket and with little recourse.

  4. #154
    Journeyman ChromeJob's Avatar
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    Not safe as a seller receiving Paypal....i lost both watch, money and confidence....

    Yep, Deckard81 is losing credibility in my view.

    1. “The watch wasn’t delivered to me, it’s RM’s fault.”

    2. “The local police wouldn’t investigate a clear case of theft, it’s the policemen’s fault.”

    3. “I didn’t tell Paypal the falsehood that the item was ‘not as described,’ it’s my creditor’s fault.”

    4. “The seller didn’t respond to my last PM, it’s the seller’s fault.”

    Poor Gab, everyone’s conspiring against him. :( (sarcastic)
    Last edited by ChromeJob; 6th December 2018 at 19:09.

  5. #155
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    I dont know whether it would be of any use but I know that a way to make eBay much more responsive is to mention filing a "police report". Its a keyword you can use in your communication that will spur them into action. It worked for me about 6 months ago with a fraudulent buyer trying to scam me, their attitude changed from obstructive and dismissive to 100% on my side.

    It might also work with PayPal.

  6. #156
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    It’s 99.99% certain it’s Royal Mail at fault.


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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmATeaf View Post
    it’s quite feasible that the watch was delivered to the wrong address and carded, the person living there then collected and have decided to keep the item
    ^The simple explanations usually turn out to be correct.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    Yep, Deckard81 is losing credibility in my view.

    1. “The watch wasn’t delivered to me, it’s RM’s fault.”

    2. “The local police wouldn’t investigate a clear case of theft, it’s the policemen’s fault.”

    3. “I didn’t tell Paypal the falsehood that the item was ‘not as described,’ it’s my creditor’s fault.”

    4. “The seller didn’t respond to my last PM, it’s the seller’s fault.”

    Poor Gab, everyone’s conspiring against him. :( (sarcastic)
    A well judged post from such a new personality to the forum.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    Yep, Deckard81 is losing credibility in my view.

    1. “The watch wasn’t delivered to me, it’s RM’s fault.”

    2. “The local police wouldn’t investigate a clear case of theft, it’s the policemen’s fault.”

    3. “I didn’t tell Paypal the falsehood that the item was ‘not as described,’ it’s my creditor’s fault.”

    4. “The seller didn’t respond to my last PM, it’s the seller’s fault.”

    Poor Gab, everyone’s conspiring against him. :( (sarcastic)
    1. The watch wasn’t delivered to me. I don’t know what happened.

    2. The local police was not interested. They might have their reasons.

    3. I’ve never contacted PayPal.

    4. I don’t place any blame on the seller in regards to the parcel not arriving. I’m just not willing to bear the cost. If the roles were reversed I would have refunded the buyer no questions asked (to the buyer).

  10. #160
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    Credit card chargebacks can be reversed again, so just because the CC company have refunded the buyers payment isn’t the end of the matter.

    Seller should keep speaking to PayPal at the very least, it may be that PayPal end up the only ones out of pocket.

    One of the risks of selling overseas or any distance I guess, I never post anything I can’t ultimately afford to lose now, if it can’t be insured.

  11. #161
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    Has anyone suggested that someone at the Post Office depot nicked it?

    No-one signed for it or produced evidence of living at that address.

    It seems the most likely explanation to me.

    M

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  12. #162
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deckard81 View Post

    2. The local police was not interested. They might have their reasons.
    As I understand it, it is largely because it's nothing to do with you. Your *identity* might have been used but no fraud has been committed against you and no items you own are involved - you are a third party. The seller might have more luck because it's his item that was sold from a courier he's commissioned.

    Also it might be that they consider it lost property and they don't deal with that anymore.

  13. #163
    Can I ask if the buyers name was on the parcel?

    I suppose there is a chance the parcel was addressed incorrectly/illegible and the collector has no idea who or where the rightful owner is?

    Forever the optimist

  14. #164
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    What a total nightmare! I feel sorry for the OP. My money is on the depot incorrectly giving it to someone else.

    This person opens it, thinks it himself “what am I going to do with this old watch? It’s not a Rolex! And bins it.”

    The last bit was a joke, and from now on we should all try and agree on sending items to locations where trusted persons can sign for and receive packages.

  15. #165
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    A horrible situation. I feel for both the buyer and seller. I'd said on Gab's thread that it was folly not to have taken out insurance but as it was signed for, I guess that would be a mute point anyway.

    I will simply say I hope the watch turns up and it is resolved.

    I will also add to the (large) group of people that have stated their confidence in Gab. I have dealt with him before, and have met him a few times and will say that 100%, I will have no issue dealing with him again in future. That is in no way meant to suggest I would not deal with the seller either. I never have but would also have no problems in doing so.

    Genuinely hope this gets sorted.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Deckard81 View Post
    I’ll once again tell you my “facts”
    I have not received anything, parcel or card.
    On the day that RM allegedly dropped the red card off, my wife was at home.
    The item was signed for at the post office and that is not my signature.
    After placing a complaint to RM and getting their response, I told Linus and you can see the end of the exchange few posts above.
    I contacted my CC company to see if I could claim my money back and explained what happened.
    The CC company ha refunded the money.
    A couple of weeks later the CC company wrote to me asking for a second formal declaration of what happened and I complied.
    Obviously there are other “facts” in the middle of it but this is pretty much what happened on my side.
    So, if it turns out that your credit card company did indeed lodge a claim with PayPal for “item not described” and you find this out to be fact don’t you think you have a moral obligation to the seller to tell your credit card company (or PayPal) this isn’t the case and them filing the claim in such a manner is preventing him from being afforded his due seller protection?

  17. #167
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    A claim directly via your card issuer when paid by Paypal is a 'chargeback' the grounds for such a claim via Paypal terms and conditions are:-

    1. INR - Item not received.

    2. SNAD - Significantly not as described.

    3. Unauthorised transaction.

    For SNAD claims this is made on the assertion that it HAS BEEN RECEIVED but is very different to the item advertised.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  18. #168
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    Simply put - this sucks for everyone involved. I don't think there is any reason for either party to have their name dragged through the mud. Both buyer and seller seem to have acted reasonably and in good faith - no real good can come of this thread which is only really going to end up antagonising both parties.

    From a positive POV, there is an insider for RM on the forum looking into this, the seller has further recourse with PayPal (clearly the item has proof of delivery) and from the many testimonials for Gab it is clear he's a solid guy who will help in any way he reasonably can if asked.

    That should be the end of it if you ask me (which nobody did :))

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  19. #169
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    It seems to me the Royal Mail handed the item over to someone in the UK impersonating the real recipient.

    Why isnt it a police matter? I bet there's cctv cameras in the post office it was picked up from.

  20. #170
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    The buyer seems very happy with having his money back even if it was through (supposedly his CC) claiming as item not as described. Buyer made a couple of phone calls, replied to some posts, now chilling. Maybe if the buyer corrected this wrongful claim (stand up guy that he is) he might have pursued more vigorously where this package actually went.

    The seller should have been on the wrongful claim immediately.

  21. #171
    To the few who insisted that I have the responsibilities to ensure the parcel reaches the buyer, the parcel, to my local post office have been tracked to have been delivered and signed for. What more do you want from me? Accompanied the parcel the entire trip, together with a representative from Singpost, board the flight, witness the exchange like it is the Olympic ceremony ?! Most of you has been a seller one point or another, do you really offer this service?

    For paypal from the initial start when the case opened with 'item not described' I have already written to them stating if item not as described, please have it returned to me and I gladly refund the money. My reputation is far more than the amount.

    Paypal as usual do not reply, there is no physical office when I can walk in by to lodge a formal complaint. I can only call them and even the lady say she does not have a personal email where I can send her this thread or the proof of receipt to investigate further.
    What I am upset about is how the Credit Card company in their convenient use this "item not described' to ease their chargeback which they succeeded in doing and my case is now closed. Have it been 'item not received', paypal have assured me there is no case for them! Again, I did not say buyer make the paypal claim with 'item not described'. Yes I would like to send them the receipt to show item received as signed but they do not bother.

    Again, I did not accuse buyer on anything, especially all the more from the testimonials given. The best reference of mine is Jack Wong, some of you may know him especially his IG. We both live 20 mins drive apart, please do contact him if really need to. I have bought watches from him. Here is his post of he himself being scammed some time back ironically:

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f63/sc...s-1853498.html

    Again, I do not send an empty box to earn a living. Buyer and I are victims of the theft through no fault of mine either and I have propose a 50-50 split of the loss. Buyer says I will not get a penny out from this. I have also propose the money if it has been my fault be donated to the fund.... if this will be him feel better. Buyer mentioned "I’m just not willing to bear the cost", No one in this community would either.
    Last edited by emstudio; 11th December 2018 at 22:01. Reason: Buyer’s info removed as requested

  22. #172
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    I've found that if you keep calling PayPal and pleading your case, you will have a chance of eventually getting someone very helpful. It has taken me sometimes 6 calls. Same with Amazon. Seems to be that some workers don't want to have to deal with anything different that takes a little more effort. I once had someone from PayPal hang up on me and another just keep me on hold until I hung up after about 30 min.

    Not sure if you would have any luck with your CC company in that way but I would definitely be trying as the buyers CC company certainly helped him out, if it was indeed their idea to put it through as not received.

  23. #173
    It is as I thought Paypal have this as a 'not as described' case and he is not entitled to seller protection under this rule.

    The OP needs to get back to them and tell them this is not true and insist they deal with it as 'not received'.

    He seems to meet all their terms and conditions and has a cast iron case to be paid under seller protection for a 'not received' item CC chargeback not withstanding.

    He should pursue to this to the top of their organisation, he is being robbed here. The buyer should simultaneously get on to Paypal and tell them it is 'not received'. He needs to take the risk they will reverse on him because it is the seller who is being wronged here on the basis of an incorrect claim.



    Mitch

  24. #174
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    This will be my last post here.
    I find it truly remarkable that some of you believe that I should bear some or all of the cost of the watch gone missing.

    I’ve paid for a watch for the price that was advertised and in the way the seller asked me to.
    I’ve never received the watch.
    End of story.
    I would expect a full refund from the seller.

    I’ve asked my CC company to refund me the money as I’ve never received the watch.
    They did. That’s it.

    If Royal Mail or Singapore post lost the parcel, it’s not my fault or responsibility.
    If someone in the UK stole the parcel, it’s not my fault or responsibility.
    If PayPal is not letting the seller keep his money it’s not my fault or responsibility.

    You are more than entitled to think that I’ve stolen the watch and/or that I’ve lied to my CC company, but I didn’t.

    Lastly, I’ve organised GTG for few people in the forum, I’ve donated to the fundraiser and to various charities on behalf of other members, sold items for the fundraiser, purchased items from SC and then donated them to other forum members as I knew they were looking for them, always sold everything I bought from SC at the same price it was bought originally. I believe I’ve always respected every forum rule, written and unwritten. I’ve trusted members for thousands of pounds in cash or watches worth thousand of pounds.

    I’ll slowly start selling everything I bought from here on SC and once I’m done you won’t hear from me again.

    Look after the profiteers, the trolls and the dealers.

  25. #175
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emstudio View Post
    To the few who insisted that I have the responsibilities to ensure the parcel reaches the buyer...
    You appear to have something of a cavalier attitude to data privacy and for that reason alone I would not deal with you in the future. I've just added you to my ignore list as an aide memoire.
    Die Zeit verwandelt uns nicht, sie entfaltet uns nur.

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by emstudio View Post
    To the few who insisted that I have the responsibilities to ensure the parcel reaches the buyer, the parcel, to my local post office have been tracked to have been delivered and signed for. What more do you want from me? Accompanied the parcel the entire trip, together with a representative from Singpost, board the flight, witness the exchange like it is the Olympic ceremony ?! Most of you has been a seller one point or another, do you really offer this service?

    For paypal from the initial start when the case opened with 'item not described' I have already written to them stating if item not as described, please have it returned to me and I gladly refund the money. My reputation is far more than the amount.
    You are the seller. You are the one with the onus to make sure the buyer receives their goods. They haven’t. And what has happened is not your fault but as a seller you need to accept they need their money back and realise that you need to be the one carrying out all the leg work to retrieve the parcel. I feel the buyer here has done plenty to try and help. I for one would deal with the buyer in the future no problem. The more I read your posts and your attitude to should I follow the parcel to them. The more I feel for me you are one I would not deal with. You asked for the TZ community to be a jury you have my verdict.



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  27. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by woodacre1983 View Post
    You are the seller. You are the one with the onus to make sure the buyer receives their goods. They haven’t. And what has happened is not your fault but as a seller you need to accept they need their money back and realise that you need to be the one carrying out all the leg work to retrieve the parcel. I feel the buyer here has done plenty to try and help. I for one would deal with the buyer in the future no problem. The more I read your posts and your attitude to should I follow the parcel to them. The more I feel for me you are one I would not deal with. You asked for the TZ community to be a jury you have my verdict.



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    Imagine sending a watch to Singapore and it going missing. ‘Leg work’ probably easier said than done and the buyer has a moral duty to do all he can to help.

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Imagine sending a watch to Singapore and it going missing. ‘Leg work’ probably easier said than done and the buyer has a moral duty to do all he can to help.
    Agreed and I think he has done a good amount to help. Despite the seller not refunding him.


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  29. #179
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    So in the real world (and I appreciate that's not where many of the members here appear to live) if I sent a stranger nearly £800 only to not receive the item I'd be ensuring my refund came like a flash. I'd not entertain any thoughts of splitting the loss with the seller as if not benefited from said item for even a second. I'd also expect the seller to have ample insurance and know what he'd do if the item didn't arrive. I certainly wouldn't be on some moral crusade to find out what had happened to the missing watch as that is up to the buyer and what he paid insurance for. Having a busy job would preclude me from wandering these fair isles on the hunt for any scoundrels who might have taken the watch.

  30. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    So in the real world (and I appreciate that's not where many of the members here appear to live) if I sent a stranger nearly £800 only to not receive the item I'd be ensuring my refund came like a flash. I'd not entertain any thoughts of splitting the loss with the seller as if not benefited from said item for even a second. I'd also expect the seller to have ample insurance and know what he'd do if the item didn't arrive. I certainly wouldn't be on some moral crusade to find out what had happened to the missing watch as that is up to the buyer and what he paid insurance for. Having a busy job would preclude me from wandering these fair isles on the hunt for any scoundrels who might have taken the watch.
    But it’s not as straightforward as that. The seller has been refused protection from PayPal because the case was opened under “item not as described” not “item not received”. Whether the buyer has told his CC this or not, this is how case was dealt with by PayPal. Add this to the the fact that RM are saying item was collected.
    If PayPal had processed the claim as item not received then a different scenario would likely ensue.

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by emstudio View Post
    To the few who insisted that I have the responsibilities to ensure the parcel reaches the buyer, the parcel, to my local post office have been tracked to have been delivered and signed for. What more do you want from me? Accompanied the parcel the entire trip, together with a representative from Singpost, board the flight, witness the exchange like it is the Olympic ceremony ?! Most of you has been a seller one point or another, do you really offer this service?
    This is going to be my last post on the thread, as I really can't be bothered to make the same point over and over again.

    Whenever I sell anything, whether it's a £10 strap or a £2000 watch, I always accept that until the buyer receives their goods and are completely satisfied with their purchase, I am responsible for the item. I always accept that if anything went wrong, the buyer must be refunded.

    Not because of some Consumer's Rights Act, not because of some Paypal rules and regulations, but because this is how business is done.

    This is why I never spend the money until I have written confirmation that everything is okay. This is why I spend twice as much on RMSD (and more if the item is more expensive than the standard RMSD cover). This is why I sometimes spend more on bubble wrap than the shipping itself. This is why whenever I've sent items abroad I've always insisted on using a courier rather than the postal service, even if it meant costing me £20-£30 more.

    I need to make sure that whatever happens, I am prepared to refund the buyer, so I'm taking every precaution I can to make sure that I myself have the best chance at getting compensated if it all goes wrong. I expect anyone I buy anything from to do the same.

    Obviously some will disagree and think that merely sticking the item in the post absolves you of any further duty - I wish you best of luck in your dealings.

  32. #182
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    It would appear to me that this thread is going round in circles.
    Seller should've done this,buyer should be doing that etc etc etc.

    There seems to be lots of conjecture about 'moral rights ' and lots of "I would do this" but all that seems to have happened is that a perfectly good member of the forum feels that he has basically been implemented in some sort of thievery and/or fraud (or at the least unconscionable behaviour) and thus intends to leave the forum.

    This last post,imo,is a very good one.

    Quote Originally Posted by asteclaru View Post
    This is going to be my last post on the thread, as I really can't be bothered to make the same point over and over again.

    Whenever I sell anything, whether it's a £10 strap or a £2000 watch, I always accept that until the buyer receives their goods and are completely satisfied with their purchase, I am responsible for the item. I always accept that if anything went wrong, the buyer must be refunded.

    Not because of some Consumer's Rights Act, not because of some Paypal rules and regulations, but because this is how business is done.

    This is why I never spend the money until I have written confirmation that everything is okay. This is why I spend twice as much on RMSD (and more if the item is more expensive than the standard RMSD cover). This is why I sometimes spend more on bubble wrap than the shipping itself. This is why whenever I've sent items abroad I've always insisted on using a courier rather than the postal service, even if it meant costing me £20-£30 more.

    I need to make sure that whatever happens, I am prepared to refund the buyer, so I'm taking every precaution I can to make sure that I myself have the best chance at getting compensated if it all goes wrong. I expect anyone I buy anything from to do the same.

    Obviously some will disagree and think that merely sticking the item in the post absolves you of any further duty - I wish you best of luck in your dealings.

  33. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    It’s 99.99% certain it’s Royal Mail at fault.


    1900 baby boy names

    Read this carefully then go back to Royal Mail

  34. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    So in the real world (and I appreciate that's not where many of the members here appear to live) if I sent a stranger nearly £800 only to not receive the item I'd be ensuring my refund came like a flash. I'd not entertain any thoughts of splitting the loss with the seller as if not benefited from said item for even a second. I'd also expect the seller to have ample insurance and know what he'd do if the item didn't arrive. I certainly wouldn't be on some moral crusade to find out what had happened to the missing watch as that is up to the buyer and what he paid insurance for. Having a busy job would preclude me from wandering these fair isles on the hunt for any scoundrels who might have taken the watch.
    Doubt insurance would help, would be buyer’s word against RM that it was delivered.

    Personally I would be concerned to find if a neighbour or local PO staff had stolen the watch.

  35. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevvy View Post
    But it’s not as straightforward as that. The seller has been refused protection from PayPal because the case was opened under “item not as described” not “item not received”. Whether the buyer has told his CC this or not, this is how case was dealt with by PayPal. Add this to the the fact that RM are saying item was collected.
    If PayPal had processed the claim as item not received then a different scenario would likely ensue.
    I totally agree. A sad situation in which I feel for both buyer and seller but objectively it isn't right that the seller has been compromised on their ability to mitigate their own position by the buyers credit card company making a claim on a basis that is not factually correct. It only seems fair to me for the buyer to correct that.

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    I totally agree. A sad situation in which I feel for both buyer and seller but objectively it isn't right that the seller has been compromised on their ability to mitigate their own position by the buyers credit card company making a claim on a basis that is not factually correct. It only seems fair to me for the buyer to correct that.
    The fact that the seller has decided to post the buyer's personal data on an open watch forum is IMHO poor form. Pretty sure this may hold the tz site in risk of breach of GDPR legislation as well.

  37. #187
    Journeyman ChromeJob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emstudio View Post
    ...

    For paypal from the initial start when the case opened with 'item not described' I have already written to them stating if item not as described, please have it returned to me and I gladly refund the money. My reputation is far more than the amount.

    Paypal as usual do not reply, there is no physical office when I can walk in by to lodge a formal complaint. I can only call them and even the lady say she does not have a personal email where I can send her this thread or the proof of receipt to investigate further.
    What I am upset about is how the Credit Card company in their convenient use this "item not described' to ease their chargeback which they succeeded in doing and my case is now closed. Have it been 'item not received', paypal have assured me there is no case for them! Again, I did not say buyer make the paypal claim with 'item not described'. Yes I would like to send them the receipt to show item received as signed but they do not bother. ...
    It's time for you to get a lawyer. This forum will not prosecute the theft (and fraudulent claim), nor will any members do that for you. Stop your bleating and lawyer up.

    I still believe that the buyer or the buyer's CC firm appears to have made a fraudulent claim to Paypal that could be legally actionable.

  38. #188
    Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    It's time for you to get a lawyer. This forum will not prosecute the theft (and fraudulent claim), nor will any members do that for you. Stop your bleating and lawyer up.

    I still believe that the buyer or the buyer's CC firm appears to have made a fraudulent claim to Paypal that could be legally actionable.
    Bit strong that sir. More likely is that Paypal pigeon holed the case under a category that suits them ie not as described. It does create opportunity for the OP to pursue PP for this error, assuming the buyer or his CC company never used that as the reason.

  39. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    The fact that the seller has decided to post the buyer's personal data on an open watch forum is IMHO poor form. Pretty sure this may hold the tz site in risk of breach of GDPR legislation as well.
    I agree with that too and when the buyer opened the original post I was one of the first to reply and specifically said not to publish anything about the identity of the seller, same theme.

    A whole series of unfortunate events. But by going down the item not as described route, it means the only re-dress for the seller is to then legitimately counter-claim he has not received the item back which perpetuates even more issues.
    Last edited by thegreatdogwood; 7th December 2018 at 11:40.

  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    It's time for you to get a lawyer. This forum will not prosecute the theft (and fraudulent claim), nor will any members do that for you. Stop your bleating and lawyer up.
    Are you on drugs?

  41. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Are you on drugs?
    Check his location - It's the American way

    (I also wonder, if perhaps he's a lawyer... )

    M

  42. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deckard81 View Post
    This will be my last post here.
    I find it truly remarkable that some of you believe that I should bear some or all of the cost of the watch gone missing.

    I’ve paid for a watch for the price that was advertised and in the way the seller asked me to.
    I’ve never received the watch.
    End of story.
    I would expect a full refund from the seller.

    I’ve asked my CC company to refund me the money as I’ve never received the watch.
    They did. That’s it.

    If Royal Mail or Singapore post lost the parcel, it’s not my fault or responsibility.
    If someone in the UK stole the parcel, it’s not my fault or responsibility.
    If PayPal is not letting the seller keep his money it’s not my fault or responsibility.

    You are more than entitled to think that I’ve stolen the watch and/or that I’ve lied to my CC company, but I didn’t.

    Lastly, I’ve organised GTG for few people in the forum, I’ve donated to the fundraiser and to various charities on behalf of other members, sold items for the fundraiser, purchased items from SC and then donated them to other forum members as I knew they were looking for them, always sold everything I bought from SC at the same price it was bought originally. I believe I’ve always respected every forum rule, written and unwritten. I’ve trusted members for thousands of pounds in cash or watches worth thousand of pounds.

    I’ll slowly start selling everything I bought from here on SC and once I’m done you won’t hear from me again.

    Look after the profiteers, the trolls and the dealers.
    I cannot see that you have done anything wrong and, if in your position, would be taking the same stance.

    Nobody is doubting that you have paid for a watch which you have not received and therefore are entitled to be refunded.

    As far as I am concerned the responsibility for delivery of said watch rests with the seller and it is up to him to establish what has happened and who has collected the item. It is unfortunate that this is made more difficult for him as he lives abroad but those are the risks that he took.

    The fly in the ointment is that your CC company charged back for an incorrect reason instead of item not received. This has allowed PayPal to close the case without further investigation. It may be helpful to seller if this was amended to item not received which may encourage PayPal to reopen this case and pursue on sellers behalf.

    Unless the seller/PayPal pursues Royal Mail through Singapore Post to an ultimate conclusion I cannot see this ever being resolved to the satisfaction of both parties.

    There is definitely no reason that you should leave the forum because of this, it could happen to any transaction and I, for one, would be quite confident of dealing with you in future should the occasion arise.
    Last edited by JeremyO; 7th December 2018 at 12:00.

  43. #193
    Today i’ve just had a letter from 3 doors away posted through my letter box. If that was the red card i’d have just trotted off down to the sorting office to collect it. I’d have realised it wasn’t for me and returned to P.O., the sender or if clearly marked, to the intended recipient. Not everyone plays it straight though.

    I very much expect the same has happened here. In my opinion a close neighbour collected it, or mr postman never left a card. It’s one of those two things right? Got to be worth knocking on a few doors either side and asking if they accidentally collected a parcel with a watch in it.

    If no joy, be sure to save an eBay search for that watch listed within a mile. You may get a trigger one day.

  44. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    It’s 99.99% certain it’s Royal Mail at fault.


    1900 baby boy names
    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    Read this carefully then go back to Royal Mail SingPost
    Surely?

  45. #195
    buyer,CC,PP someone in that chain has decided its "not as described' to make it easier for themselves(logic would be if not as described then return item to seller then refund).find that point then you can proceed further. I suppose if your miles away and this is happening you will feel very isolated,cant imagine where to start if I were selling to singapore and this happened (walk a mile in someone else's shoes etc)

  46. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter2704 View Post
    buyer,CC,PP someone in that chain has decided its "not as described' to make it easier for themselves(logic would be if not as described then return item to seller then refund).find that point then you can proceed further. I suppose if your miles away and this is happening you will feel very isolated,cant imagine where to start if I were selling to singapore and this happened (walk a mile in someone else's shoes etc)
    Agreed and this is what I can't understand either.

  47. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodacre1983 View Post
    You are the seller. You are the one with the onus to make sure the buyer receives their goods. They haven’t.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sorry, but this is not correct, and very unfair to the seller. The factual evidence is that that item was delivered. There is no dispute. The only evidence to the contrary is the buyer's word, and (no disrespect to the buyer) that is not better than the factual evidence.

  48. #198
    We all do it as the seller did,I have sent 2 watches this week ,RMSD insured and tracking, I check to see if its arrived and signed for on line if YES then all is good ,then I await the buy to contact me to say all is well with the watch.But to have all this and the buyer say No I haven't received it is probably a punch he didnt see coming,and I am struggling to see what more he could have done

  49. #199
    Both the buyer and the seller would have both ben covered by PayPal protection had the buyer filled the claim via PayPal. Paypal would have likely made a payout to both parties with neither loosing out. Due to the fact the buyer went to their credit card company instead the seller now misses out on this seller protection. I think the buyer owes it to the seller to file a police report(perhaps via action fraud), write to their credit card company clearly stating they never receive the watch and the "not as described" claim is false (they should also do the fo PayPal) and finally they should write a signed statement for the seller to use if needed. The seller has been left high and dry due to the way the buyer has pursued his refund. I do btw believe the buyer needs a refund but I also believe the seller shouldn't loose out.

  50. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    It's time for you to get a lawyer. This forum will not prosecute the theft (and fraudulent claim), nor will any members do that for you. Stop your bleating and lawyer up.

    I still believe that the buyer or the buyer's CC firm appears to have made a fraudulent claim to Paypal that could be legally actionable.
    Are you deliberately replying to this thread just to cause trouble ChromeJob?

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