TZUK Running Club

[Dave E]

1000km is a long way for a pair of shoes, even if they look OK.

[FK77]

1000km is a long way for a pair of shoes, even if they look OK.

While shoes may or may not be the reason behind calf cramps, I agree with the above. In my limited experience and based on a conversation with a physio that is currently treating me, how frequently you should replace your running shoes depends on the shoe, type of surfaces you run on, your weight and running style. There are YouTube videos that demonstrate simple tests you can carry out on your shoes to see if the cushioning is still working or not, for example.

I have a pair of Nike Pegasus 35 and the sides of the soles already had wrinkles when I checked at ~350km. I wasn't expecting them to be so bad but only checked when I noticed a different kind of knee pain than the one I have pretty much all the time. Shocking to see such compression so early, especially given I am not as heavy as I used to be and the shoe is advertised as an "all-rounder". On the other hand, I have a pair of Saucony Ride ISO that I retired from running at 600km but still use them a lot for walking. No wrinkles to date and still very comfortable. My other pair of the same brand/model is at ~650km and still passes all the tests so I continue to run in them.

Two runs in a row my left calf has cramped about half way through the run. In both cases, this was without warning, i.e. I didn't have any indication the leg was about to misbehave until it suddenly so did.

My thoughts are electrolytes (lack thereof) or shoes (they still look in pretty good state, but just have done about 1000 km now).

Does anyone have any thoughts?

I don't usually get them while running but frequently get cramps in my calf (usually left) several hours after a really long run (16km or half marathon). I put it down to lack of post-run stretching and dehydration. The only times I felt my calves were going to cramp mid-run was when I had no option but to run up ridiculously steep mountain roads and back down while on holiday. Thankfully it never happened but my calves definitely felt on the verge of cramping. It used to happen running downhill when my strides got much longer than normal and I was having to apply a lot of braking force with each step to avoid building an uncontrollable speed and falling over.

Not sure if this gives you any clues ... change in stride length recently? Subconsciously putting more pressure on the toes or front part of the foot instead of middle and heal, possibly due to overused shoes?

[SuperVM]

Thanks for the replies. It is only recently that it dawned on me that the shoes had covered so much distance. I also had a bit of a hamstring issue on my right leg and wonder if I've been compensating with my left leg, which has resulted in this. Having said that, this has started happening about two weeks after my right leg has improved.

I've never had cramps mid-run before or even post run, so it is a significant change for me. I'll try the replacement shoes I've already purchased (same model in end of year sale) on my next run.

My current shoes, what do people reckon?

[AlphaOmega]

Doubt cramps are because you've done 1000km in a pair. I'm not an expert in bio-mechanics though.

Next time you get it, try a handful of salted peanuts. That sometimes fixes it for me.

I usually change my road shoes every 500 miles or so. Then I use the old pair in the gym - fine on the running machine for another few months as there's built-in give.

[AlphaOmega]

Just seen the pics you've added.

^I tend to go by feel rather than wear.

There is a noticeable tailing-off in performance. This happens way before the wear is excessive.

I can't see in the pics but is the wear at the back of the shoe even? I don't even wear them in the gym when they're at that stage. Fine for general use that doesn't involve heavy loading though.

If unsure, try a new pair in a shop so you can see the comparison. Any decent running shop will also give you an opinion on your shoes without pressure to buy.

By the way, I've managed to pick up some dull pain behind the knee cap (front of the leg).

I've had a lot of deal with recently so haven't had a chance to train properly, then went out and did a long race. Felt ok in the race but it has been there in the last few weeks afterwards.

My physio has given me some stretching exercises but I'm resting at the moment. Just doing some daily time on the cross trainer but I'm slowly losing fitness.

I believe it's patellofemoral pain syndrome - or runner's knee for short. Anyone managed to get rid of it?

[SuperVM]

Doubt cramps are because you've done 1000km in a pair. I'm not an expert in bio-mechanics though.

Next time you get it, try a handful of salted peanuts. That sometimes fixes it for me.

I usually change my road shoes every 500 miles or so. Then I use the old pair in the gym - fine on the running machine for another few months as there's built-in give.

Potassium and/or magnesium was definitely a thought of mine.

[FK77]

I believe it's patellofemoral pain syndrome - or runner's knee for short. Anyone managed to get rid of it?

I have patellar tendonitis, which I believe is also called patellofemoral pain syndrome. I thought it was more commonly known as jumper's knee rather than runner's knee (which I thought was IT Band Syndrome) but I could be wrong.

Anyway ... behind the kneecaps is exactly where I feel it. It was pretty bad when I first got it in Summer 2018 and I couldn't run for 3 months while the physio treated me, mainly by exercising but in the later stages I was also given corticosteroid injections in the knees by a Sports Consultant. This was to enable me to do the harder exercises that I couldn't perform because it hurt too much.

It did go away in Spring 2019 but came back in Summer when I pushed myself too hard to get my PB in a race. Hasn't disappeared since then but it is manageable despite me increasing my distances to a completely new level.

[Dave E]

If they are worn out, you'll notice with a new pair, they'll have a lot more spring in them! Looking at those photos it looks like you've worn the treads flat on the forefoot and also mostly at the heels, so I suspect you'll feel a noticeable difference.

Mind you, as others have noted, that may not be the reason for the cramps, or at least not the only reason. I'd have thought a newer pair of shoes will help, though.

[SuperVM]

If they are worn out, you'll notice with a new pair, they'll have a lot more spring in them! Looking at those photos it looks like you've worn the treads flat on the forefoot and also mostly at the heels, so I suspect you'll feel a noticeable difference.

Mind you, as others have noted, that may not be the reason for the cramps, or at least not the only reason. I'd have thought a newer pair of shoes will help, though.

I have never used a pair for this long before. Usually, mine need replacing around the 500 km mark as I've had wear inside the shoe. This pair have performed exceptionally well though, but I admit are probably past their best. That suits me as they'll be demoted to non-running duty and the pair I currently use for that can be thrown away at last (for various reasons they are my runners from three pairs ago).

I've compared the pair I've been wearing to the new ones and they do look pretty shot. Difficult to see in a picture, but in the flesh it is quite marked.

[AlphaOmega]

^As Dave mentions, looks like the front is worn quite a bit. It doesn't look like you're heel-striking that much. Which is good.

[AlphaOmega]

I have patellar tendonitis, which I believe is also called patellofemoral pain syndrome. I thought it was more commonly known as jumper's knee rather than runner's knee (which I thought was IT Band Syndrome) but I could be wrong.

Anyway ... behind the kneecaps is exactly where I feel it. It was pretty bad when I first got it in Summer 2018 and I couldn't run for 3 months while the physio treated me, mainly by exercising but in the later stages I was also given corticosteroid injections in the knees by a Sports Consultant. This was to enable me to do the harder exercises that I couldn't perform because it hurt too much.

It did go away in Spring 2019 but came back in Summer when I pushed myself too hard to get my PB in a race. Hasn't disappeared since then but it is manageable despite me increasing my distances to a completely new level.

Glad you're managing it.

Any ideas if anything else helped apart from the injections - did you rest completely for three months or were you able to do other exercises?

[FK77]

Any ideas if anything else helped apart from the injections - did you rest completely for three months or were you able to do other exercises?

Not complete rest - a break from running only. I increased the intensity of gym workouts and did light exercise at home on most non-gym days too to try and somewhat make up for lack of running. The other thing that helped a great deal was improvement in my running form, which was the reason I was overloading my knees in the first place. Most of the exercise plan was prescribed by the physiotherapist to strengthen my weak areas. She also did regular running assessments and gave me tips to improve my poor biomechanics - both while running and doing day-to-day stuff.

[AlphaOmega]

^Thanks. Sounds like I need to ask my physio to suggest some areas where I could improve my form.

[SuperVM]

Used new shoes today and had some coconut water shoved down my throat by my wife yesterday. No cramps on this morning's run, which was nice.

[Pitch3110]

Anyone doing the Cambridge Half this Sunday??

Pitch

[Passenger]

With a bit of luck out for a 10k tomorrow.

[mk2driver]

Anyone doing the Cambridge Half this Sunday??

Pitch

I’m doing it with two mates, looking forward to it

[Pitch3110]

I’m doing it with two mates, looking forward to it

I’ve hardly trained due to injury so pacing Mrs P to hopefully a PB. She is aiming for under 2:15, we will be wearing black Waveney Valley AC tops.

Have a great run

Pitch

[FK77]

Ran a half marathon today. Haven’t done this distance since the end of January. Slower than my PB by over 2 mins but it was still my 2nd best (21.40km in 1:50:32). Great day to get lots of vitamin D but quite sore now lol.

[Pitch3110]

Good pace and well done.

I really like HM's for me its a great distance and you can hide just a bit when needed..


Pitch

[zelig]

Working from home has had some upside...




I’ve managed 3 runs & decent walks on the non running days

...beats spending time commuting

z

[zelig]

Did a 10km run yesterday.
First time since about 18 months ago & managed a PB.


It actually went pretty well & I was pleased that I managed to pace it correctly... I have struggled to get consistent pace - usually fluctuating quite a bit - so I was happy with the pacing on this run. The new Garmin (Vivoactive 3) watch really helped on that front.

The last 1.5km seemed to be harder & my legs are a bit achy today - so I may limit the number of 10km runs I do in future weeks - & stick to 5-6km with the occasional 10km.

z

[Passenger]

Good effort Zelig, bound to feel a few aches the day, 2 days after. Nice PB, excellent consistency...something I really struggle with, especially after 18 month layoff.

I'm restricted to running laps around the back yard, its about a 100 m circuit, does get rather dull after 20/30 minutes and constricted, I try and liven it up with a few obstacles to jump making it into a bit of a steeple chase...looking forward to getting out for a run in the hills/ by the beach, maybe next month.

[dougair]

Managed my longest ever run last week, 16km. Felt really good until the last three km or so. I reckon I could build up to a half marathon. 10km was my previous long distance.

[andyjay]

I’m still trying to do my target of a minimum 20km a week. Holding up well at the moment, but the increase in cycling (Zwift) has knackered my legs out so the running is super hard...

I just don’t want to let the distance drop as it has helped my running and last parkrun done was a PB of 21:30 with more in the tank.

[walkerwek1958]

Ideal opportunity at the moment for runners to get out regularly and improve fitness etc, and the weather’s been good too.

12 weeks after surgery on my left knee, I’d hoped to be back to running again by now but sadly it’s not happened. I can walk all day at a fast pace, but going downhill over rough ground is painful, it’s a bit like toothache. Anyhow, I attempted to jog a few stretches yesterday, managed about 50-60 paces each time during our longish walk. I knew it would hurt and it did, but I decided it was time to give it a try.

Managed to do a bit more today, around 20 minutes of brisk walking on the local playing fields with a few stretches of jogging, managed around 200 steps on the longest stretch. This doesn’t sound much but it’s better than yesterday, and the knee actually feels better for it. Had a 6 mile walk later with Mrs W and it felt OK, so it hasn't reacted badly to the running.

I’m missing the gym, ideally I’d build up leg strength which helps a lot, but I don’t have the option and there’s no point being negative or moaning about it. That’s my philosophy on everything at the moment, I’m disappointed the knee surgery hasn’t got me back where I hoped to be but I’m focussing on what I can do rather than what I can’t. Provided the knee doesn’t react overnight I’ll have another go tomorrow and hopefully do a bit more.

[dougair]

Does anyone run with AirPod pros? I’m looking to get some wireless headphones as my wired ones are annoying me now on longer runs! I have QC35 but I can’t run in on ear headphones!

[Slevin Kelevra]

Does anyone run with AirPod pros? I’m looking to get some wireless headphones as my wired ones are annoying me now on longer runs! I have QC35 but I can’t run in on ear headphones!

I run regularly with AirPod pros on Road and Trail and have never had any issues.

[zelig]

Does anyone run with AirPod pros? I’m looking to get some wireless headphones as my wired ones are annoying me now on longer runs! I have QC35 but I can’t run in on ear headphones!

I bought these...



The pairing can be a bit hit & miss (with my Garmin Vivoactive 3 Music) - but once paired they work well & the sound quality is more than adequate for running. I really like not having to take the iPhone & no wires.
I also find them very comfortable - even up to 2h (walking not running I might add)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DESTEK-T1-W.../dp/B07SKJ982Q

Perform much better than the £26.99 price tag might suggest.

z

[dougair]

Thanks chaps. Useful info. I’ll do some more research.

[spareparts]

Does anyone run with AirPod pros? I’m looking to get some wireless headphones as my wired ones are annoying me now on longer runs! I have QC35 but I can’t run in on ear headphones!

I run with Jabra Elite Active 75Ts. Brilliant things.

[mk2driver]

I run using Aftershox bond conducting earphones - I personally really like the fact I can still hear traffic etc

[s1wnw]

i use beats pro completely wireless. i love them. I went outside for the first time in two weeks due to self isolating, man it was tough, and around 2 and a bits slower for my normal 5km time. Too much chocolate, beer and crisps....

[crooky13]

Does anyone run with AirPod pros? I’m looking to get some wireless headphones as my wired ones are annoying me now on longer runs! I have QC35 but I can’t run in on ear headphones!

I was a bit dubious of them too but they work great for me. I’ve used a few different brands inc. bose wireless and like the AirPod pros the most.

[SydR]

Two years ago today I did my first marathon, after only been running for 18 months and determined to do one before turning 50!

Finished in a respectable 3:45:35.

Not ran since fracturing my pelvis last September but keen to get back out now. Probably try a 5k run early one day.

[Pitch3110]

Does anyone run with AirPod pros? I’m looking to get some wireless headphones as my wired ones are annoying me now on longer runs! I have QC35 but I can’t run in on ear headphones!

Got some last week through my WTB.

First run was 10 miles at 8:30 ave and they were perfect no issue or concerns.

Absolutely lov em

Pitch

[andyjay]

My Triathlon club decided that as all competitions are off for the foreseeable future, we would run some virtual club competitions to keep people ticking over and keep the interest levels up. The first one was a 5k run vs your PB since Jan 2019, making it an improvement thing, rather than a straight up competition.

Since lockdown began, I’ve continued to run, but done no speed work as I had been enjoying doing that at the Parkruns before they stopped. My fastest time was my last Parkrun at 21:26 whilst running with a friend. So, was very pleased today to run a 21:20 solo without anyone to chase or spur me on. Whilst I’m not going to be the one with the greatest improvements (some are being very sketchy about their times...), I’m just happy to run a PB, and know that my ticking-over and Zwifting is obviously still taking me in the right direction...

All I’ll need to do when/if the season returns is to gain a bit of swimming fitness, and loose the additional couple of kg’s that seem to have built up, although I suspect that some of it is an increase of muscle mass on my legs due to the additional cycling...

So, happy days until the next competition...

[sjedwardz]

The lockdown has given me more opportunity to run during the week now. Working from home is ok but you really need to take a break.
So I’ve either been concentrating on speed work for 5 & 10k

Also been spending more time exploring footpaths and trails from the house. I’ve amazed myself with finding a load even after 5 years in the same area!!

I’ve being mapping them on AllTrails website and downloading them to my Garmin.

The only slight downside is in good weather a more people are using footpaths than usual.

I went out in torrential rain the other day for an hour and saw no one so I’m occasionally hoping for bad weather!


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[shoppy]

Thanks chaps. Useful info. I’ll do some more research.

I have the AirPods Pro don’t use them for sports use my Jabra 65 active which are about to get replaced by the 75 active t. I find the Jabras really good for running.

[Dick Sternum]

Ran for the first time in weeks at the weekend, it’ll have to be the last run for a long time too unfortunately. I live on Dartmoor and it’s seemingly impossible for me to leave the house without encountering thousands of people who have driven out here in order to make no attempt to social distance. Gave up after 2 miles and headed home after having a grand total of one person out of about 40 make any attempt to give 2 meters distance. The new guidelines are only going to make it worse.

Thank feck I can still ride the bike on Zwift.

[bitt3n]

Does anyone run with AirPod pros? I’m looking to get some wireless headphones as my wired ones are annoying me now on longer runs! I have QC35 but I can’t run in on ear headphones!

look up lypertek tevi, relatively inexpensive for the quality with highly rated sound and great water resistance

[dougair]

look up lypertek tevi, relatively inexpensive for the quality with highly rated sound and great water resistance

Thanks, I’ll check them out.

[RAFF]

Request to join sent.

[zelig]

After running a PB 10km I was feeling pretty good on my regular 6k & 10k runs.

Until Monday - I pulled up with a strain at the top of the Achilles' tendon after 1km - & had to abandon the run.
(& I did quite a thorough stretch before the run)

A few sites suggest RICE (Rest Ice Compression Elevation) method - I've managed R & E so far.
Does the Ice & compression make much difference / heal quicker ?

Looks like I'll have to have a week or so off...

z

[walkerwek1958]

After running a PB 10km I was feeling pretty good on my regular 6k & 10k runs.

Until Monday - I pulled up with a strain at the top of the Achilles' tendon after 1km - & had to abandon the run.
(& I did quite a thorough stretch before the run)

A few sites suggest RICE (Rest Ice Compression Elevation) method - I've managed R & E so far.
Does the Ice & compression make much difference / heal quicker ?

Looks like I'll have to have a week or so off...

z

Don’t make the mistake of trying to run too soon, achilles tendon problems are serious and can easily end up as chronic injuries that only go away if you stop running completely. I’m not a medic so I’m reluctant to give individual advice, but I can tell you what not to do.......do not attempt to run until the pain has gone away, don’t even think about it, if you try too early it’ll pull again and be worse than ever.

As for ice and compression, it may help but its not a miracle cure. Rest is the best medicine, ultrasound treatment supposedly speeds up healing but you’ll need to see a physio fairly quickly and that'll be difficult at the moment.

Volterol gel (dichlorfenac) massaged into the area, accompanied by stretches, helped me a lot, but I don’t recommend this at your stage, I ended up with chronic problems after many years of hard running and several achilles injuries.

When you do get back to running, ensure your shoes are providing adequate cushioning and try to run in softer ground.

Try to work out what caused the injury, tight calf muscles is the usual candidate.

[bitt3n]

After running a PB 10km I was feeling pretty good on my regular 6k & 10k runs.

Until Monday - I pulled up with a strain at the top of the Achilles' tendon after 1km - & had to abandon the run.
(& I did quite a thorough stretch before the run)

A few sites suggest RICE (Rest Ice Compression Elevation) method - I've managed R & E so far.
Does the Ice & compression make much difference / heal quicker ?

Looks like I'll have to have a week or so off...

z

whether to stretch before or after a run (or at all) is something people debate.

might be interesting: https://www.runnersworld.com/beginne...after-running/

[walkerwek1958]

Tight calf muscles caused some of my problems, eventually I learned the value of massaging to loosen them up (painful at first but it works). A friend of mine is a qualified sports masseur, he had me squealing like a piggy the first time he worked on my calves but he managed to break down some of the knots and lumps. However, the scar tissue from a previous muscle tear, which had left a hard knot, defeated him!

Once you know how you can massage your own calves, it definitely helps.

[zelig]

Thanks guys - I've read that those foam rollers are good for 'rolling out' tight calf muscles...

...which I think is the root cause of my problem too. Anyone used one ?

TIA

z

[ManCityDG]

First ever half marathon yesterday. I’ve been pretty active during the lockdown doing plenty of cycling, rowing and running so the fitness levels are quite good but the furthest I’d actually run had been 12km! Knees and hamstrings are sore today!




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[SpydieNut]

Congrats - that’s a very nice run and time for a 1/2M.