The future of Tudor?

[Stuno1]

With Rolex moving up in the world in terms of cost and Tudor filling the luxury entry level spot for the owning company what is next for Tudor?
- Rolex will continue to increase in cost incrementally so I assume Tudor will follow suit with incremental price increases.
- New black bays are no longer offered with bracelet, nato and leather options with the customer now having to choose one option.
- Tudor is gaining in notoriety and favour hence my second point seems to reflect the fact Tudor no longer feel the need to play the 'value' card quite as much.
- Many people are turning on to what Tudor offer in terms of design and quality from movement to build and materials perspective.
- A lot of their designs are going to age well (Pelagos and black bay range specifically).

Will Tudor (like Rolex) creep up in price until it as also becomes more than an entry level brand or will it remain where it is in the market?

Stu

[MartynJC (UK)]

I’ll have a go.

I think they have been suprised by popularity of their recent offerings. Their JIT manufacturing has meant a lack of supply for their newer movements and having to rely on Rolex to fill in has led to longer delay?

They seemed to to have learned quickly from their big brother about supply and demand and now stories have started about removal of stickers before buyer can take watch. Only a matter of time before warranty cards are kept too?

There is not room for two Rolex in the market. Something has to give.

[Stuno1]

I’ll have a go.

I think they have been suprised by popularity of their recent offerings. Their JIT manufacturing has meant a lack of supply for their newer movements and having to rely on Rolex to fill in has led to longer delay?

They seemed to to have learned quickly from their big brother about supply and demand and now stories have started about removal of stickers before buyer can take watch. Only a matter of time before warranty cards are kept too?

There is not room for two Rolex in the market. Something has to give.

Indeed, so Tudor will have to remain cheaper than Rolex but Rolex seem to be aiming for JLC territory these days and that would leave a space at Omega (and others) level and a potential for Tudor to move up in to it if the upward trend of both brands continue. I am talking longer term here.

[RustyBin5]

They will remain cheaper than Rolex (of course), but I think the difference in price may remain relatively similar, so when Rolex increase so will Tudor

[Stuno1]

They will remain cheaper than Rolex (of course), but I think the difference in price may remain relatively similar, so when Rolex increase so will Tudor

Indeed so Tudor may become above entry level depending on Rolex ambitions.

[Wallasey Runner]

I know Tudor are very popular on here, but in the wider world are they viewed as the second Watch brand of Rolex and therefore less desirable. You don't often hear of people aspiring to buy a case of the second wine of Chateau Lafite or Latour do you.

The fact that most retailers always seem to have a healthy window full of watches suggest that the Rolex madness hasn't quite happened yet with the little brother.

I was always put off by the snowflake hour hand, which I dislike, but I wouldn't buy a Tudor for the reasons above.

[Flasher]

Indeed, so Tudor will have to remain cheaper than Rolex but Rolex seem to be aiming for JLC territory these days and that would leave a space at Omega (and others) level and a potential for Tudor to move up in to it if the upward trend of both brands continue. I am talking longer term here.

Tudor have hit a sweet spot at this time with their heavily influenced vintage design and with many buyers who would like to own a vintage Rolex professional now being priced out of that market, Tudor have garnered some favour from that segment of the buying market. With no real competition too their vintage inspired models currently, they are certainly enjoying their place in the watch spotlight, as other mid range brands like Breitling, Tag etc try to regain some credibility.

Whether this spotlight for Tudor is mirrored in sales, I am unsure, with certainly no shortage of availability at AD for I believe most models. The long term issue will be when the market turns and vintage inspired homage models are no longer in fashion, like Panerai, were do you go and can you take your buyers with you as you change directions with new model design etc.and will you remain competitive in the pricing.

[ac11111]

Rolex rarely if ever puts a foot wrong with their key models.

Tudor on the other hand seem to release a number of nice watches but ones which for me always seem to miss the mark somehow, so I like them but also find them a tad frustrating. Nothing has yet really grabbed me sufficiently to make me part with my money even considering the lower price points and obvious build quality.

If I was running Rolex/Tudor, the focus should be to release less vintage inspired and slightly more forward looking well executed new sports models, like Pelagos with strong value proposition. The black bay and heritage lines are slightly too “easy” hits and a bit too retro and trendy for my liking

[Stuno1]

Rolex rarely if ever puts a foot wrong with their key models.

Tudor on the other hand seem to release a number of nice watches but ones which for me always seem to miss the mark somehow, so I like them but also find them a tad frustrating. Nothing has yet really grabbed me sufficiently to make me part with my money even considering the lower price points and obvious build quality.

If I was running Rolex/Tudor, the focus should be to release less vintage inspired and slightly more forward looking well executed new sports models, like Pelagos with strong value proposition. The black bay and heritage lines are slightly too “easy” hits and a bit too retro and trendy for my liking

Agreed to a point. The heritage range of the black bay will probably at some stage fall out of favour but crisper more modern colours could be used to keep the line relevant. I have and love the Pelagos. It would be good to see a gmt at the size of the 58 and for it to be in house movement. I guess for Tudor it’s still an experiment to see what can be done with design. Will be very interesting to see what future releases bring.

[ac11111]

Agreed to a point. The heritage range of the black bay will probably at some stage fall out of favour but crisper more modern colours could be used to keep the line relevant. I have and love the Pelagos. It would be good to see a gmt at the size of the 58 and for it to be in house movement. I guess for Tudor it’s still an experiment to see what can be done with design. Will be very interesting to see what future releases bring.

I personally prefer the ETA to the in-house versions

[Omegamanic]

Agreed to a point. The heritage range of the black bay will probably at some stage fall out of favour but crisper more modern colours could be used to keep the line relevant. I have and love the Pelagos. It would be good to see a gmt at the size of the 58 and for it to be in house movement. I guess for Tudor it’s still an experiment to see what can be done with design. Will be very interesting to see what future releases bring.

I’m guessing Tudor wanted to move away from a Submariner clone, even though they had their very own Submariner for years. The Hydronauts didn’t quite do it, so they needed to do something.

I think the Black Bays are great, but I’d like to see a non-heritage line that takes things forward. Obviously the Pelagos is the main modern diver, but if we see that as Tudor’s SD, there is room for a 200-300m steel diver with normal Tudor hands, rather than Snowflakes.

But maybe they are just happy with the current sales.

A new diver and GMT’s in 58 case shape, but full size with straight hands would/could be my favourite - I’d like a modern Tudor Submariner, with the latest movement, metal bezel insert, non-rivet bracelet - something to take the fight to Omega.

[watchcollector1]

I know Tudor are very popular on here, but in the wider world are they viewed as the second Watch brand of Rolex and therefore less desirable. You don't often hear of people aspiring to buy a case of the second wine of Chateau Lafite or Latour do you.

The fact that most retailers always seem to have a healthy window full of watches suggest that the Rolex madness hasn't quite happened yet with the little brother.

I was always put off by the snowflake hour hand, which I dislike, but I wouldn't buy a Tudor for the reasons above.

"Aspire" is a word that I find really cringeworthy in relation to luxury brands. To me in this context it means "I buy brand x so I can show off about money and I won't buy brand Y because people will think I've gone for the cheaper option"

I have much more respect for people who buy what they like (whether that be Rolex or Tudor) rather than buying what they think other people will notice is expensive.

Tudor has moved on from being the "poormans Rolex", it's range is much more differentiated now whilst still retaining some design cues from it's rich history.

[RustyBin5]

"Aspire" is a word that I find really cringeworthy in relation to luxury brands. To me in this context it means "I buy brand x so I can show off about money and I won't buy brand Y because people will think I've gone for the cheaper option"

I have much more respect for people who buy what they like (whether that be Rolex or Tudor) rather than buying what they think other people will notice is expensive.

Tudor has moved on from being the "poormans Rolex", it's range is much more differentiated now whilst still retaining some design cues from it's rich history.

This^
I have 8 Tudor’s simply because I like them. Could sell them for maybe £18k and buy 3 Rolex but have zero inclination to do that at all. Nothing wrong with either approach but also nothing wrong with just liking a brand for what it’s products look like.

[RustyBin5]

Looking at Tudor’s back catalogue there aren’t many iconic pieces left that they haven’t already reissued, so the GMT was an interesting move - perhaps they might pull a couple of other Rolex inspired ones out of the fire. Snowflake bbgmt Panam anyone?

Perhaps a Tudor jubilee bracelet? Dunno. It’ll be interesting to see what they do next though.

[bwest76]

"Aspire" is a word that I find really cringeworthy in relation to luxury brands. To me in this context it means "I buy brand x so I can show off about money and I won't buy brand Y because people will think I've gone for the cheaper option"

I have much more respect for people who buy what they like (whether that be Rolex or Tudor) rather than buying what they think other people will notice is expensive.

Tudor has moved on from being the "poormans Rolex", it's range is much more differentiated now whilst still retaining some design cues from it's rich history.

I couldn’t have put it better.

[Wallasey Runner]

So anyone who wants to live in a big house, have a nice holiday, own a Porsche or Ferrari or wear a Rolex or Patek is 'cringeworthy'.

Nice...

Never heard of ambition.

Perhaps we should be content with universal credit, a council flat in Hartlepool, drive a clapped out Fiesta and wear a £10 Argos special - are these your kind of people?

[ac11111]

I’m guessing Tudor wanted to move away from a Submariner clone, even though they had their very own Submariner for years. The Hydronauts didn’t quite do it, so they needed to do something.

I think the Black Bays are great, but I’d like to see a non-heritage line that takes things forward. Obviously the Pelagos is the main modern diver, but if we see that as Tudor’s SD, there is room for a 200-300m steel diver with normal Tudor hands, rather than Snowflakes.

But maybe they are just happy with the current sales.

A new diver and GMT’s in 58 case shape, but full size with straight hands would/could be my favourite - I’d like a modern Tudor Submariner, with the latest movement, metal bezel insert, non-rivet bracelet - something to take the fight to Omega.

Like a 300m steel pelagos 40mm and thinner.

[nickyboyo]

So anyone who wants to live in a big house, have a nice holiday, own a Porsche or Ferrari or wear a Rolex or Patek is 'cringeworthy'.

Nice...

Never heard of ambition.

Perhaps we should be content with universal credit, a council flat in Hartlepool, drive a clapped out Fiesta and wear a £10 Argos special - are these your kind of people?

Any chance of you expanding on the last sentence of your statement please? I'm curious as to what exactly you mean by 'kind of people'

[Wallasey Runner]

Any chance of you expanding on the last sentence of your statement please? I'm curious as to what exactly you mean by 'kind of people'

Clearly people who are not cringeworthy.

[igorRIJEKA]

I personally prefer the ETA to the in-house versions

Why,can you elaborate this please?

[nickyboyo]

Well it comes across as disingenuous, cynical and as repugnant a view that people from either group are cringeworthy based on their possessions.
It would be nice if folks could be judged as cringeworthy on the substance of their character rather than what they have or have not.
It just read as a strange thing to say, perhaps I just haven't had enough coffee yet and I'm reading it the wrong way, in which case I apologise and have a good day.

[Stuno1]

I definitely think a modern black bay range will do the brand wonders but in the 58 case. Ideally phase out all the 41mm black bays and create them in the 58 case. It has timeless dimensions and would offer a fantastic range of heritage and modern looks if they go down the modern look route as well. Add a gmt to the 58 case as well. The Pelagos is the Rolex sd equivelant so that leaves the door open for a sea dweller type watch. These could then be the foundation and backbone of the brand and allow them to experiment with other watches.

If they play their cards right they really could be a great brand for the future and many years to come.

[ac11111]

Why,can you elaborate this please?

Prefer the rose logo over shield for example. In house is better movement, but there was nothing wrong with ETA for Tudor, think they went in house because they were worried swatch were going to start restricting supply.

[MrBanks]

I’ll have a go.

I think they have been suprised by popularity of their recent offerings. Their JIT manufacturing has meant a lack of supply for their newer movements and having to rely on Rolex to fill in has led to longer delay?

They seemed to to have learned quickly from their big brother about supply and demand and now stories have started about removal of stickers before buyer can take watch. Only a matter of time before warranty cards are kept too?

There is not room for two Rolex in the market. Something has to give.

Is it publicised knowledge that they operate JIT? I'd be very interested to know how they do this because throughout most of the industry JIT doesn't work.

[RustyBin5]

So anyone who wants to live in a big house, have a nice holiday, own a Porsche or Ferrari or wear a Rolex or Patek is 'cringeworthy'.

Nice...

Never heard of ambition.

Perhaps we should be content with universal credit, a council flat in Hartlepool, drive a clapped out Fiesta and wear a £10 Argos special - are these your kind of people?

To be fair I don’t think being content with Tudor is the same as being content to have a council flat in Hartlepool or driving a clapped out Fiesta Ken. I don’t think aspiration to own nice things is cringeworthy for the record although the flaunting of wealth can definitely be if done in a crass manner. Just my 2c

[watchcollector1]

So anyone who wants to live in a big house, have a nice holiday, own a Porsche or Ferrari or wear a Rolex or Patek is 'cringeworthy'.

Nice...

Never heard of ambition.

Perhaps we should be content with universal credit, a council flat in Hartlepool, drive a clapped out Fiesta and wear a £10 Argos special - are these your kind of people?

Not at all, you completely misunderstand my point. It's not about reverse snobbery at all, I greatly dislike that too.

It's about buying what you like whatever the price not worrying about the perceived hierarchy of the brand.

You said you would never ever buy Tudor because they are 2nd in hierarchy to Rolex. Sorry but that's just snobbery.

[steptoe]

So anyone who wants to live in a big house, have a nice holiday, own a Porsche or Ferrari or wear a Rolex or Patek is 'cringeworthy'.

Nice...

Never heard of ambition.

Perhaps we should be content with universal credit, a council flat in Hartlepool, drive a clapped out Fiesta and wear a £10 Argos special - are these your kind of people?

You've completely missed the point.

[davidj54]

Totally disagree with the comment of Rolex being the preserve of the most aspirational and anyone who’s prepared to settle for less has no ambition, poor form.

I went to a local football event at the weekend, two most common watches I observed there were Rolex and G-Shocks. I had my Tudor on, only one there. Let’s face it anyone who earns £30k a year and has a half decent credit rating could get a Rolex on finance, if they really wanted one - you don’t need to be Alan Sugar reclining on his yacht terrace.

People should buy/wear what they like, if you like Rolex fine, but if you believe owning them and buying into their brand indicates to others you are a successful and aspirational person then all that shows is their marketing has done its job. Possessions don’t make the man.

[watchcollector1]

Perhaps we should be content with universal credit, a council flat in Hartlepool, drive a clapped out Fiesta and wear a £10 Argos special - are these your kind of people?

And also this is snobbery beyond belief. Are you saying I shouldn't accociate with some one who lives is a council house or owns a clapped out Fiesta?!

I know nice wealthy people and also nice people who don't have a pot to pee in but I'd much rather accociate with them than awful money snobs.

[gaurav_tzuk]

Is it publicised knowledge that they operate JIT? I'd be very interested to know how they do this because throughout most of the industry JIT doesn't work.

There was a GQ article very recently that suggested they don’t keep any stock

[Wallasey Runner]

And also this is snobbery beyond belief. Are you saying I shouldn't accociate with some one who lives is a council house or owns a clapped out Fiesta?!

I know nice wealthy people and also nice people who don't have a pot to pee in but I'd much rather accociate with them than awful money snobs.

For what it's worth I drive a clapped out 12 year old Fiesta that cost £425 and wear a £100 Orient - so no snobbery on my part.

I don't like Tudor and my Rolex days are long gone.

[WHL1882]

For what it's worth I drive a clapped out 12 year old Fiesta that cost £425 and wear a £100 Orient - so no snobbery on my part.

I don't like Tudor and my Rolex days are long gone.

Thanks for confirming. As a Tudor ETA BBN, Harrods BB and Bucherer BB owner l’ll be able to sleep soundly in my bed tonight knowing this...

[MrBanks]

There was a GQ article very recently that suggested they don’t keep any stock

Stock of finished watches I believe, stock of components I do not.

[gaurav_tzuk]

Stock of finished watches I believe, stock of components I do not.

Maybe I’m wrong but if they’re working towards JIT for finished watches it means they should be doing the same for parts/components?

[MrBanks]

Maybe I’m wrong but if they’re working towards JIT for finished watches it means they should be doing the same for parts/components?

Industry standard practice is to hold a minimum of 4 months worth of component parts. Now possibly this may be different for Tudor as they are under the umbrella of Rolex who buck the trend for the rest of the industry as they're supply chain is largely internal but I'd still be surprised if they're running a true JIT system.

[mrmeat]

OP, good thread. I'd be interested to see what Mike (Wood) or Haywood's view of Tudor and their potential strategy is/are...

Meat

[Alansmithee]

Of course this forum largely looks at decisions through a UK perspective and many decisions (from the companies) are not driven by that. I remember reading that Zenith's sales are largely in Asia (China in particular) and that drives a lot of their actions.

So many decisions that people think are odd here make sense when viewed from a global perspective - so Tudor price rises and choice of models might make more sense in that context.

[Waldorf]

With Tudors connection to the Rolex brand and the current shortage of Rolex sports models. You would think Tudor are in a very good/unique position to market the brand, and introduce new models to further enhance the brand/reputation.

Cheers