Reply With QuoteFunny enought I was thinking something similar!Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne
Don't they have form for making people sign NDAs - maybe you should start the thread before.
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Don't they have form for making people sign NDAs - maybe you should start the thread before
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Funny enought I was thinking something similar!Don't they have form for making people sign NDAs - maybe you should start the thread before
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Crikey, has he got one of those SUV’s?Any one of these if I recall (or maybe all 3) but it may have changed...
That’s quite a step up from a Volvo...
So clever my foot fell off.
not tried an ipace, but the f pace was a massive let down, very sluggish for supposed 240bhp
Yes they do. Hence the lack of very negative customer feedback.Don't they have form for making people sign NDAs - maybe you should start the thread before
I can assure you the iPace does not feel sluggish in the slightest. Quite the opposite.
I drove it on the Alpine course several times, the high speed bowl, and a ten mile road course. It is very quick and extremely easy to drive.
So clever my foot fell off.
How was the brake pedal feel? The one I drove had a soft pedal which the dealer said was normally but was a little unpleasant.
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I'm there too, my contempt for the "living room on wheels" brigade grows by the week.
Correct decision Ryan, I've had a Model X 100D for 5 weeks and done 2,000 miles in it. Joyous relaxing cheap and pleasurable miles. This is from someone who has done no more than 6,000 miles a year for the past few years, you just want to drive it! I've come from 2 BMW 6cyl cars and 2 Mercedes in the last 12 years, the Model X is hands down the best and most exciting car I've driven. Everyone loves it.
Before buying the Model X, I test drove an Audi SQ7, Q7, XC90, X5 etc. The only one that excited me was the X. Getting back in to my 535d after the 24hr test drive nearly made me cry. It was like stepping back to 1985!
I'm not going to go in to the Tesla V iPace debate here, I really can't be bothered, to me its not a contest, however try doing 2,000 miles cross country in an iPace, best of luck!
Tesla are not perfect, but I can overlook the iffy quality here and there for the sheer technological marvel that is the user interface, autopilot, charging infrastructure, incredible dealership and purchase experience etc etc. the list goes on. I'm very excited about what the future will bring if this company keep innovating at the same rate.
Seriously considering putting a deposit on a model 3 (my wifes X3 can go, she can have the X), Jag, Audi and Merc are still years behind with the battery tech let alone the packaging which Tesla have totally aced.
Last edited by JC180; 13th November 2018 at 23:06.
Felt fine to me - I also like the regen breaking in the High mode a lot.
So clever my foot fell off.
I definitely get how impressive the Tesla’s are - and there is plenty of room in the market place for competition right now.
The iPace is 63k fully loaded - that’s comparatively very good value.
So clever my foot fell off.
Alex, all I would say is drive one. If they speak to you then fine if not not.
I discounted them for years as a fad and not a real competitor in the sector how wrong I was. Brand satisfaction is sky high despite reported issues etc and I now can see why. Owners just love their cars.
I also specced an iPace and X like for like and the iPace came to £74k and X £80k so check the relative specs carefully.
Whatever you choose. Enjoy the heck out of it, I'm sure you will!
iPace has a gross weight of near 6000 lbs....
More weight is léss safe, less economical, less eco, etc.
Indeed the tyres. Still only four of those, needing to cope with more weight and more power. Again more risc and more particulates indeed.
All in all an undesirable ostentatious development.
This is not, or should not be, the future.
The future needs líght e-vehicles. Lighter than with combustion engine or it will not be more eco, safe etc.
Also; less weight = more fun. More power, more speed just kills.
I just changed my 2000 kg suv for a 1000 kilo runabout. Mán what a jump forward in safety, eco et al. And fun ofcourse. More fun and less risc at better economy with less emission.
The mother-of-my-son-gf has a 4x4 stationwagon.
The other gf has a Juke.
The third has a Peugeot CC but takes her sister´s Juke (coincidance) if needed.
Also I can take my son´s Volvo 5d whenever I want.
I do need a 4x4 with tow hitch occasionally so the first one has said I could have a tow bar installed on hers.
Since I very seldom take more than one gf out at a time, never more than 1 dog and never a dog plus gf, I swapped my SUV for a lightweight strictly 2 seater.
How have you arrived at the conclusion that a lighter vehicle is necessarily a safer vehicle?
It's the distinction between safe as in not having an accident and safe if you have one.
I'd much rather be in my Volvo XC90 than a SmartCar if I was unfortunate enough to be in a RTA.
Plus, I'd have trouble getting my 4 kids in a 2 seater
That is obviously why , against all the 'experts' claims to the opposite , Porsche have sold more Cayennes, than the rest of their range combined !
All the premium brands are now on the band waggon, Aston's new DBX the latest, after the Cullinan's recent launch - mass order books already.
As I am on my now 5th X5 (so far nothing I have tried matches the 'all over' product feel) they offer comfort, flexibility, safety and 'feel good' factor.
Frankly our 40k Golf R feels 'lesser' than a similarly priced 3 / 4 series.
Will be entertaining to see how much 'road rage' appears once people are in a loong queue to 'tank up' their electric cars - 3-4 hours each ?
A friend really struggled with his Tesla S on a long distance drive through Spain via Andorra !
The 'X' version just been slated as the least reliable in a Norwegian test (where Teslas are everywhere (abt 40/45k) due to huge tax rebates, free parking / ferries / bus lane use etc etc !)
Each to their own
They're incredibly strong, even if you're in a collision with an XC90.I'd much rather be in my Volvo XC90 than a SmartCar if I was unfortunate enough to be in a RTA.
Plus, I'd have trouble getting my 4 kids in a 2 seater
The simple answer is to buy two of Murray's cars - one for you and your two favourite children and one for your wife or husband and their favourite two. You may find this hard to believe but I don't think it would be too hard to make a slightly larger version of his car with two more seats behind the three up front.
"A man of little significance"
A fully charged I-Pace should be good for a minimum real world 200 mile range before it needs a re-charge.
For most people, most days, they won’t need to use a public charger at all, so shouldn’t be an issue.
Charging at home on a 7kW charger will see it re-charged overnight.
If you do need to charge whilst out and about, a rapid charge at the ever growing 50kW charge network for 45 mins should get you another 80 miles.
Once the 100kW network expands it will be even better.
I test drove one for a couple of hours a few weeks ago, and I was very impressed with it.
If Jaguar had a Tesla style rapid network I’d have ordered one already. I quite look the look of the Tesla Model 3 as well, but delivery times for one of those is too long for me.
My next car will likely be the I-Pace, a Kona Electric or a used Model S, but I’ve got another 18 months or so before I need to replace my Golf GTE so I’ll watch developments.
So on a motorway - charge 45min, drive 69min and repeat. Average speed 42mph.
Leave home with 200 miles. After say 180 miles charge back up to a 160 mile range and charge at your destination if over 200 miles... In the iPace it's a pain as its range limited and slow charging.
In a Tesla you get a realistic 280 mile range in the X100D or S90D so you leave home with a 280 mile range after 260 miles you chargeback up to 200 miles in approx 30 mins (pee stop and coffee) so thats a 460 mile range with an enforced pee break at halfway. Hardly a hardship especially as for much of us the charge is free.
Until the legacy manufacturers get a handle on battery management and efficiency and they get a widespread and realisable infrastructure their BEV's will just be a niche product for the brave few.
Unless of course you're limited to doing no more than 180 miles a day max in which case charge at home and wake up every day with a full tank.
Well, nobody said electric cars are ideal for every circumstance or requirement?!
If you’re a motorway warrior who needs to routinely travel more than 200 miles a day, then you might find an EV and our current public charging network a chore.
The average Joe does 10k miles a year though, which is about 30-40 miles a day, they probably wouldn’t even need to charge the I-Pace or any other 200 mile range car every day.
For longer trips it’s still possible with a bit of planning, I took my i3 to the Lake District for a holiday, over 200 miles away. Sure, I wouldn’t want to do it everyday but a couple of charges and coffees on the way up, and it was done. Added about 90 minutes to the trip and car on charge at the hotel on arrival.
Know a couple of Tesla owners who love the new technology indeed one drives from the South of France to London on a regular basis and looks upon the journey as a coffee stop/ rest one planned by the car would drive me crazy but just a question in most of our crowded cities where you cannot park outside your house what length extension lead do you buy?
I’m still to be convinced that electric vehicles have a long term future. I’ve yet to see any serious analysis on what I think are the key issues....
1. The materials required for the batteries (lithium and cobalt) are already becoming scarce and expensive. Not helped by largely coming from friendly countries like the DRC.
2. As yet very limited ability to recycle batteries.
Could only be a matter of time before the green lobby change their mind
However ion the short term I could be tempted by the IPace
Yep, inner city home charging remains a challenge!
Councils are trialling destination charge points fitted to lamp posts etc though. if we can fit fibre broadband to every house, we can fit an electric socket for on street charging too?
What will come first though, that or self driving taxis, or even cars that drive themselves off to the charging car park that is currently empty at night?
I don’t know, there are challenges to overcome for sure, and in cities maybe personal cars aren’t the future at all.
He and his wife would be best of with a líghter, modern recycled materials version of the R4 or original Panda.
In Málaga and several other cities runs an electric scooter project.
You enter the internet page, find/reserve one near you, get on at leave it where you need to go. The distance is charged through the app. The company keeps the scooters charged.
It is not perfect yet but I can see it totally working and for small city cars too. A personalised public transport. The motorised version of the Amsterdam ´witte fietsen plan´ which has spread to the cities of the world.
Yep, contrast this with the UK, where the governments first response was to dig out a 170 year old law in order to deem them illegal.
On the electric debate, I don't think anyone is saying the current batch of EV's are the endgame, but they are now usable for most folk and a necessary step forward. Better and cleaner battery technologies will emerge. It's not like there's a long term future for petrol or diesel is it, given the finite supply - and I say that as a petrolhead with my 4.2 v8.
Interesting news article the other day that many companies were buying hybrid vehicles for the subsidies but not bothering to charge them.
I use my SUV to tow my rally car to events, where I drive it "proper" and then tow it home. Performance cars are a waste of time on public roads...
Another +1 from me. Hard thought to even buy a car akin to Gordon Murray's vision, never mind popularise them.
See my ´sports´ car threads...
I've been sure that the Greens are biding their time on this. Once they've killed the IC engine they'll start a campaign all about the environmental destruction caused by strip-mining the constituents needed for battery tech.
Build quality was sub-par too
Full electric is a lovely idea.
But has anyone actually sat down and done the maths?
Generating power to service/charge the nations vehicles would require a massive MASSIVE almost unimaginable generating infrastructure. Renewable energy is impractical for it...so need to be nuclear.
Lots of them....so coming to your neighbourhood soon.
Yep, plus the environmental cost of other aspects....
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/e...e-environment/
It is. Just not for hugely heavy cars and silly power. That is wasting energy whichever source it has. Apart from increasing the riscs.
Smart type city cars, whether for two or four, are great when electrified with a say 30 kW. emotor.
I for one would be perfectly happy to park my petrol car at the outkirts and take whichever transport to get further. In fact do so quite often now; bus, metro, e-scooter. The cost about equals out.
Most BEV owners exclusively charge at night on economy 7 when there is massive grid surplus so hardly an issue for the foreseeable.
Plenty of people have sat down and done the maths, and the conclusion seems to be that there is enough capacity in the existing national grid to charge EVs even if every vehicle on the road was electric, just not all at the same time.
Enter ‘smart charging’ where the grid releases surplus energy to charge vehicles when it isn’t required for something else, and that could be managed at a local level.
Enter also ‘vehicle to grid’ where the megawatts of energy stored in a nations partially depleted electric vehicle batteries can be put back into the grid via the charging cables to meet peak demand.
I used to think the same re the extra power stations required, but I’ve been persuaded that solutions can be found if we want to find them, that will minimise the amount of new power stations required to a handful.
Ofgem has already issued guidance to electricity companies, and National Grid is also piloting schemes.
I imagine we used to wonder how we’d supply petrol to all the internal combustion engined cars that would be on the roads, but we managed it. If we grow the infrastructure alongside the growth in EVs it should be perfectly doable.
Last edited by Tooks; 15th November 2018 at 23:28.
Main four sources of lithium are Australia, Chile, Argentina and China. DRC is well down the list (if on it).
Lithium supply is unlikely to be an issue for the foreseeable future but nickel could be a much larger problem.
There was an EV thread before, the technology is evolving by the day and So many things may help. More efficient collection of solar, cars directly collecting power, better batteries, more efficient vehicles and other improvements too.
We ran one for two years, went back to ICE and Mrs is counting the days till she can get another EV.
Did you see the new Model S interface? It is rolling out to owners now who are not happy with it. It's changed to match the Model 3 interface which buries frequent used items beneath multiple menus. It is an automatic, compulsory OTA update.
Pure rubbish, nothing is hidden behind multiple menus, the important stuff is much easier to get to and nothing is automatic or compulsory.
The early V9 release was criticised by a few for not allowing permanent view of the rear camera at the top of the screen. This has since been fixed in an update and was hardly an issue for most people.
The rest of the V9 update is a big improvement, slick and up to date, i got used to it in hours not days and it is a big improvement on V8. Now has a dashcam built in to the car, audio controls from the app, updates via the app, improved lane change and soon to come here navigate on autopilot and many other improvements.
My car is already on 2018.44 (V9 release end Oct was 2018.40) so it shows the rate of progress and bug fixes. This was Tesla's biggest update in 2 years and bar a few (now resolved) teething problems they have aced it.
It really pays to know the facts and experience things first hand before making these sort of statements.
Tesla have never advertised yet have sold over half a million cars in 6 years by word of mouth, despite the detractors!
Last edited by JC180; 16th November 2018 at 01:09.
I'm totally with Jacob, as I'm also an owner of a Tesla. If you'd have told me that 7 weeks ago, I'd have laughed at you, but I thought "why not" to taking an S out on a 24hr test drive, and I was so impressed, I had one on the drive 3 days later. I'm very much a "petrol head", not a hippy etc, and I'm most likely going to buy a third car with an engine as I do miss the pops and bangs of the Porsche I had, but the Tesla is actually more than enough if we don't get another car.
The original Teslas were poor quality, but the second generation car is completely different in terms of both technology and its mechanical underpinnings. Reliability is much better overall and I've covered 3k miles in around 6 weeks without issue; instead, I've found long journeys a breeze, as I'm sat in a very quiet car that pretty much drives me where I'm going, plus I have the car's own Spotify and Tunein radio playing me all the music I could ever want. There will always be stories of nightmare cars, but I've never seen anything different with any car I've owned. I had four MINIs, all were terrible but I enjoyed the cars so much, I put up with the faults, until eventually, enough was enough.
The Supercharger network is why I went for a Tesla, and didn't even bother test drying an i-pace. I did go and sit in one but thought it was a typical Jaguar; perfect for the older gent but surprisingly full of buttons, and I think what people perceive as quality, is sometimes just over-styled design. Ian Callum is not who should be in charge at Jaguar; he's only got the F-Type right in his time there, and now even that's looking worse with the constant addition of extra sills etc. My Model S has air suspension that can be raised, so I see the Jaguar as no better in an off-road scenario... which I did actually have to use the Tesla in recently as we stayed at a house in the middle of a farm.
Back to the Supercharger, I get it free for the life of the car, and I simply add 20 mins to any estimated journey time, as that's all I've needed on long runs to gain around 100 miles or so extra... good luck doing that in an I-Pace currently, where that'll more likely take hours on your average charger.
I'm not naive. There's a chance that when the Model 3 is released, there'll be queues at charger stations. However, the Model 3 has a longer range and therefore people are more likely to destination charge. Also, of course it's known that Lithium mining etc is harmful to the environment, however if anyone will make batteries less harmful, it'll be Tesla; they're already developing new battery technology. A lot of the comparisons you see vs. fossil fuels don't include the well at the beginning of the fossil fuel process; A 70KW battery car will take only around a year or so to catch up with a fossil car in terms of emissions, although I admit to knowing little about how these batteries are recycled or disposed of, but Tesla batteries are found to only degrade by around 10% after 8 years and hundreds of thousands of miles on the oldest cars.
The fact is, most of the people I know that hate SUVs have never driven one, and most of the people I know who hate EVs haven't driven one either; if they have, it's some crappy Leaf which are known to have severe battery degradation and be a really short term car that'll cost you a fortune once you have issues like that.
Don't knock it until you try it as they say; whoever "they" are.
Nothing wrong with that. For some people it’s just a means of getting about.
The lithium raw material in a Li-ion battery is only a fraction of one cent per watt, or less than 1 percent of the battery cost.
As for the enviromental costs and effects of switching to EVs - its not going to happen over night plus its up to us to decide by voting, how the goverment puts pressure on the power companies to use cleaner sources of generation.
(not much else we can do)
Hydrogen - electric hybrids are getting better in range (up to 900 km on a tank now which is comparable to petrol-hybrids) however look at a map of hydrogen stations/fast chargers in europe - costs are about the same or more than ICE per tank- and electric is significantly less. Until Hydrogen becomes more mainstream and more available its price won't come down - still see its uses in Buses and large industrial vehicles - but the pressure needs to be put on by those elected to improve the uptake
Last edited by Xantiagib; 16th November 2018 at 09:20.
The issue I have with ever larger, heavier cars is that they are by and large are steered by an entitled driver in a Peltzman bubble and as such a hazard on the public road at a non-eco price.
There is no way around it; heavier means more risc and is less economic. To add insult to this injury, subsidies mean that the masses give the entitled a discount.
Imo subsidies should go to small electric city vehicles in a rent red and electrifying public transport.
Road tax should be exponenential based on curb weight regardless of fuel.
I’m pretty sure that the Model 3 has a shorter range than the Model S Wayne. Quite a few miles shorter in fact.
I’ll be looking at the Model 3 in a few years time when it comes to replacing my current taxi. The fact that there are eight superchargers in a services just four miles from the town I work in has swayed my decision that electric is the way to go.
I haven’t heard that, but I “only” have the 75D myself and get easily enough range for long distance, so it’s not an issue. The M3 is lighter I think, which should help with range. It’s not a lot smaller than the S though apparently.
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