Evening Folks,
I am kinda new to this watch malarkey and I was watching a review of a Christopher Ward Trident C60.
A generally positive review, and I certainly like the watch and I am seriously considering buying.
The reviewer makes the point that for him, it hits the sweet spot (price wise) before the law of diminishing returns kicks in.
Left me wondering if had already topped out on that law with an SKX.......... which I know is well regarded (I did my research before that purchase) and I love it.
I appreciate that there are so many variables on this (many centred around disposable income, I suspect) but I was wondering where others considered that "sweet spot" to be before the law of diminishing returns kicked in for them?
I know that I am travelling (or at least looking along!) a road often travelled and would be interested to hear others thoughts, both generally regarding expenditure; and specifically on the C60!
Regards,
Jim
For £15 you can buy a Casio which would keep better time than most mechanical watches. After that, it really is only about jewelery. So each to their own as far as how much you want to spend; the job of telling the time cannot be improved with greater monetary input.
The whole thing is just an exponential scale, each little step up in quality doubles the price.
Making out that everything is sensibly priced up to a point, but then suffers from diminishing returns after it, is just a way of rationalising for yourself the distance along the exponential curve that you find you have to stop.
As others have said, a watch is ultimately there to tell you the time of day. My £40 GShock does that with more unrelenting accuracy than anything more expensive I have/have had - certainly more than my SKX (the 7s26 movement is a relic these days). As you move up the scale you’re paying for two things; higher quality materials, and branding.
I’ve never owned a C Ward, but have looked long and hard at them. You’ll be getting a hell of a lot of watch for your 700 quid that’s for sure.
I’m not even sure it can be argued that a higher price buys you greater quality or materials, if you’re looking at the matter in absolute terms as an effective timepiece. As above, a plastic Casio will keep time better than any titanium mechanical watch.
In my eyes, the greater spend generally buys you greater quality from an engineering (relative to other mechanical watches) and design viewpoint. And let’s be honest, whether it’s welcome or not, an expensive watch can also carry social and economic signifiers as well (I’m not judging the validity or importance of that as a factor, but it would be wring to ignore it exists).
In my view, It’s the importance of those additional features to you that I think you’re measuring against the relative cost of the watch. Both sides of the equation are subjective and both will be different (and fluid) for every person.
For me, I love the design and style of the 1655, but not enough for it to justify acquiring one. However if I win the lottery tomorrow, that relative cost equation changes and I go pick me up a sweet vintage McQueen.
The point is, I don’t think there can be a ‘universal’ sweet spot - only a personal one, and due to the relative and fluid nature of both value and cost sides of the question, it can’t be limited to a certain monetary price nor a smooth cost/benefit curve either.
Which is all a long way of saying - ignore what everyone else thinks and buy what speaks to you at a price you’re happy to pay :)
PS to answer your question about CW C60, I’m not that interested in movements or materials - I’m generally all about the visual - and the design of the hands and the dial font don’t do anything for me. So it’s not worth the money to me. But it ain’t my money nor is it going to be me that is looking at it everyday so if you like it, go get it :)
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I just feel that there are a lot better options out there than CW.
But... at the end of the day it’s all done to which watches you prefer the looks to and will actually wear the most.
It's just a matter of time...
Save-up and buy a basic Rolex...whichever takes your fancy. Keep it, wear it, look after it.
You'l find that does the job, and in the long-term, will probably cost you very little. Don't flip .Don't start 'collecting'.
Unless you want to have some fun. You're not buying a fridge.
This to be honest. Buy what you like and would wear. For me I couldn’t get past the logo and onion hour hand on the CW and would look at Steinhart, Ginault, Seiko prospects etc before CW.Originally Posted by Omegamanic
I’m not sure it’s really about diminishing returns. A Rolex is 30x the cost of a Seiko, but is nowhere near 30x the watch. My Casio G Shock is all the watch one could rationally want, but that isn’t what “luxury “ watches are about.
It sounds boring, but a Speedy at a street price of £2750, or wait your turn on the list and get a Rolex Sub or GMT. If you pay less, such as the CW, you are getting a decent watch, but it’s still by most standards expensive, you still have to service it, but it isn’t horologically unique. At the end of the day it fails to be an icon from a prestigious brand. This is my objection to most mid-price stuff, expensive watches, but generic, and not what you really want.
Dave
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Maybe a better question would be, which offers the best bang for buck for a given movement? For example many Swiss watches have the 2824 movement which can range from a few hundred up to a couple of thousand. As mentioned before, materials and finishing can also make a difference.
The OP is asking a rational question about an irrational subject. Didn't someone say anyone who spends more than £20 on a watch is an idiot?? They are fundamentally correct of course. And even a CW watch for a few hundred pounds is a wild extravagance - the high street & web are full of superb (quartz) watches from Seiko, Citizen, Pulsar etc at under £150 which are amazingly accurate, almost completely reliable, tough as nails and often quite stylish (according to personal taste). But of course, that's being rational, and WIS people by definition aren't!!!
But if it gives 30x the satisfaction then maybe it is.
About £120.
Waterproof to 200 metres; solar recharging; great lume. Not great street cred....
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Try telling that to anyone who’s bought one of the many watches (Rolex/PP/Speedmasters) that have appreciated in value over these last few years.
It’s Ok buying a £10 Casio because you’ll only lose £10 but buy the correct expensive watch and it will (in all probability) appreciate over the time you own it and therefore make you some money rather than losing it. That’s taking servicing into account too.
So who looks the idiot now?
In the main though, you are correct as the vast majority of watches will depreciate (usually quite horrendously) rather than appreciate.
Hi Jim.
You're on a noble path and it's pleasing that you have the mindset to appreciate mechanical watches. I only caught the bug about 5 years ago but have learned loads since then (and with some expensive mistakes, trust me).
The CW is a fine watch, and if you like it, buy it. But try it on first and that is a must. Your view of a watch will change over time as it is anyway, and to buy one blind rarely works out. The SKX you have is an exception the that rule however as to most it's a no-brainer.
Many on here will tell you to buy a Rolex and be done with it, and to fair that's probably good advice as these days they hold their value in case you decide it's not for you (and many do decide that). But even they are not bulletproof in terms of residuals despite what you may read.
Depends if you want to buy a few watches and get into a hobby or just buy one nice watch and enjoy it for what it is. If the former, start low and build an appreciation for watch collecting with each one you buy. Eventually you'll probably end up with a Rolex in a few years and that's not a bad thing (although personally i prefer Omega watches). If the latter is the case then take your time and find one that ticks all the boxes in terms of comfort, aesthetics and affordability. Don't get too hung up on residual value is my advice, as despite what you may read watches are rarely a good financial investment long term.
Same as bicycles. My road bike cost me ten grand but it's not five times as good as Mrs T-7's two grand bike.
A lot will depend upon how in-depth an individual wishes to go with this interest – some geek out on accuracy, metallurgy, finishing, complications, build quality, bezel action etc., and some just skate along the surface of aesthetics, brand etc.
Neither approach is ‘wrong’, but it’s likely the former group who might appreciate more and be willing to pay extra for said diminishing returns.
The Trident is a great watch, by the way. But I’d class it as a definite step-up from an SKX or Steinhart (good though they are). As is always the advice, don’t buy at full price – there is a £100-off voucher code out at present for prior customers that’s easy & free to get your hands on (PM me if you wish), and in the run-up to Christmas they’ll undoubtedly do a website sale. Also, if you have smaller wrists the 43mm version is a large, hefty watch. Of course, there is the comfort that you can buy-to-try and if it's not for you then return it to them with zero quibbles within 60 days.
But even then, it's not quite a clear as that, as the £x,000 you have tied up in a Rolex could be used for other things. Even at the present, with appalling interest rates, your saved money would grow at up to 2% pa (OK possibly less than current Rolex appreciation!) and other (probably more lucrative) investments are available...
You’re right, nothing is black and white but the £000s tied up can usually be accessed fairly quickly by selling the watch should an opportunity arise.
Me too.
The watch the OP mentions is listed at about 600 notes on the cw website.
For far less than that sort of money you can get much nicer watches new. First ports of call in my book would be something from Eddie or Seiko perhaps.
Used you could get a really nice sinn 556 on bracelet perhaps, or a damasko....
There are many far more better options available than the cw, but thats just my opinion
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Awesome feedback and food for thought, folks, appreciated!
Yep - anything over a £20 Casio is probably daft; but a good Forum can always rationalise and normalise absurd behaviour! (I speak from experience).
The bike analogy raised was a good one; the most fun I ever had on a motorcycle was on one that cost 10 times less than my highest motorbike spend.
Interesting that several have mentioned Rolex - almost as if "All roads lead to Rolex - eventually". Not for me, I'm afraid. And its not even a cost thing; just can't see me ever wanting to wear one. No offence intended.
A Speedmaster was also mentioned; now that does interest me and I shall certainly go try one at some point.
Sinn's were mentioned; and the 104 aesthetic appeals; as does an Oris Aquis, for that matter........ although the lug/strap issues have probably knocked that off the radar really.
I have never been a collector of anything per se; so I shall be a watch user; and appreciator; and a small stable will do me just nicely, methinks.
I am still no clearer on what I want, or am willing, to spend though, so maybe that is the logic in us newbies being excluded from SC ...... its for our own protection!
These two Seikos (SBDC033 AND SARB035) would be the 'sweet spot' of cost v quality.
Of course, in the end I sold them both to fund a shinier trinket!!
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Agree with these Seikos being great value for money - I love my Sumo and my Seamaster SMPc is not 5 times as good. But the SMPc is 'better' with COSC timekeeping, sapphire etc. I would say that beyond £2-3k the deminishing returns graph starts to flatten out but it's not as simple as that of course.
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'Jimthebob's distain for Rolex is understandable. They do carry baggage; however, I'm willing to bet that as he gets deeper into the hobby he will realise just why so many enthusiasts end-up with a Rolex.
The copper-bottomed reputation has been hard-earned , and is well-deserved.
Last edited by paskinner; 14th November 2018 at 10:08.
Spot on. But as you suggest, while there is no one objective point after which there are diminishing returns, you will find that there is a subjective one that relates to your individual circumstances. For me, it came when I realised that the next step up the exponential price scale would mean selling six very good watches to buy one that was slightly better. The six very good watches ended up feeling more appealing, particularly as I didn’t fancy having that much cash wrapped around my wrist anyway as a statement, even if I liked the watch itself. I agree though that if I’d been able to easily afford six watches on the next level up instead of one, the law of diminishing returns would have applied in a different place.
It’s the same with cars too of course - at some point you have to start doubling the size of the engine just to slightly increase the top speed, due to the exponential drag. Then you have something that can’t handle as well at useable speeds due to the weight. With motorcycles it’s very much a real world decision, and cooler heads often find the 750cc a better all round package than the 1000cc that’s heavier on the way in to a corner and would quite like to throw you off on the way out. With watches though it’s different, as very expensive watches are at least very good at being exclusive, if that’s what you really want.
Loving those Seikos - and interesting that they hit the "sweet spot" for you. I have actually had a long hard look at the Sarb017 Alpinest - but I am concerned it might be too small for me.These two Seikos (SBDC033 AND SARB035) would be the 'sweet spot' of cost v quality.
Of course, in the end I sold them both to fund a shinier trinket!!
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Yep - cost of ownership/residuals are hard to ignore for me.
That SARB035 is fabulous. I remain on the lookout for a used one.
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Hah! I swore when I joined this forum that a Rolex was not my goal.
*sigh*
We all have a journey.
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