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Thread: Homage or not

  1. #1
    Master Neilw3030's Avatar
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    Homage or not

    Having just looked at the new arrivals thread, and finding myself liking a Steinhart GMT even though I dont want to, has got me wondering,. Since im never going to be likely to get a Rolex GMT at list anytime soon, maybe just maybe I should get something like the Steinhart and be settled.
    Part of me feels like its cheating, but after all it does look the part, at a fraction of the price, readily available and a better size too.
    I have bought Homages before, several Radiomir clones which i still have, long after I sold the actual Radiomir it all led to.
    What is opinion on this route, has it led you to the real deal or are you happy with a pretender or do you have both ??

  2. #2
    Master beechcustom's Avatar
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    Nothing against anyone who enjoys homages but I can never bring myself to get a blatant one. I'd rather go for one of the many more original alternative designs such as G-Shocks, G10s, Swatches, Casios etc etc

  3. #3
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    Well, if you are like me and are never going to afford the original, why not buy a decent hommage? I bought the Steinhart GMT-a-like a few years ago, and it is a quality bit of kit. Its not a Rolex, but its a tenth of the price. On the other hand, maybe you can afford a Rolex, but can't justify it to yourself....in which case you might as well buy a hommage anyway, as if you bought the 'real' one, you'd be always wondering if you should have splashed the cash on it or not! There again, Rolex have got good residuals, so you could think of buying one as it as a try before you buy deal, if you don't take to it, you can always resell it easily.

  4. #4
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    I bought a LOT of steinharts and honestly they’re great. They led me into Tudors...also great. The homage thing is not something that bothers me. If it was to bother anyone then in reality it should bother Rolex, but their lawyers don’t seem concerned. You could argue the Tudor’s also are almost homage but that’s a separate discussion. Suggest you buy it - wear it - then see how you feel. You should get your cash back when you sell if you choose to flip.

  5. #5
    Master
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    Homage watches are perfectly legal but my own self respect prevents me from wearing them.

  6. #6
    They're just a constant reminder of what you really want but had to settle for.

  7. #7
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    No respect to Steinhart because they state nowhere on their site what’s the name of their game. Even most Chinese homage factories clearly mention that these watches are not original designs. Dirty cheat.

  8. #8
    It must be the easiest job in the world if you're a member of the Steinhart design team.

  9. #9
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiro View Post
    No respect to Steinhart because they state nowhere on their site what’s the name of their game. Even most Chinese homage factories clearly mention that these watches are not original designs. Dirty cheat.
    Way way OTT! Are you aware of the difference between a Hommage and a fake??? The 'Chinese' factories you mention are almost certainly turning out fakes, so of course they say that they are Rolexs and have Rolex on the dial!!! Steinhart (and many others) are producing quality products (with genuine Swiss movements) that look rather like certain others with 'Steinhart' on the dial. A Steinhart is a genuine Steinhart, not a fake Rolex. Where is the cheating in that?

  10. #10
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    It must be the easiest job in the world if you're a member of the Steinhart design team.
    Have you actually looked at their website and seen the non-hommage original designs they produce??? OK, they buy in their movements from ETA or Valjoux, but I don't think that was what you were referring to!!!

  11. #11
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    Are you buying the watch for yourself or others?

    If yourself then get the Steinhart, it basically looks like the GMT after all and you say you like it. They are a good quality watch. Buy it wear it and enjoy it.

    If though you are worried about resale value then you are buying the watch for others and you will never really enjoy it as every dink or nock will aggravate, but the Rolex wins here.

    Or do you really want the Rolex? If so then save and get one instead. Only you really know. Personally a watch is a watch, the Steinhart and the GMT look the same and do the same thing, it comes down to what you want to spend and what you are happiest with sitting on your wrist.

  12. #12
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Most important thing is not to listen to people who cry foul about the brand. Wear it enjoy it and outside of this place nobody but you will know the difference anyway.

  13. #13
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiro View Post
    No respect to Steinhart because they state nowhere on their site what’s the name of their game. Even most Chinese homage factories clearly mention that these watches are not original designs. Dirty cheat.
    Welcome to the forum. Day off school?

  14. #14
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Homage watches are perfectly legal but my own self respect prevents me from wearing them.
    Hahahahahahaha

    Seriously Mick, that's a good one
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  15. #15
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    They're just a constant reminder of what you really want but had to settle for.
    I used to feel that way.

    I bought a blue Seiko 5 'Fifty Fathoms' in the hope it would stave off a Longines Hydroconquest itch, but it didn't.

    It ended up as a black 'Fifty Five Fathoms' mod, which I like for itself - Sure it's a 'homage' to a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, but I'm never going to spend that much money on a watch, so it's not a reminder of the 'watch I really want', just one I rather like - I also like the fact that much of the way it looks is down to my work, an appeal which no AD bought Fifty Fathoms would never have.

    I had a black DLC Steinhart Ocean Black, which was unusual and quite nicely made, but rather than making me yearn for a Sub, it irritated me that it was such a blatant copy of a watch I don't really have any desire to own. I sold it back to the person I bought it from. It was a nice watch (better still with the ceramic bezel insert I added, IMO), but whenever I looked at it, I kept thinking 'people think I wear this because I wanted a Rolex!" - Irrational, I know, but it detracted from the watch's own virtues for me.

    However, I've mellowed on this. I don't worry if the watch I buy is a 'homage' to one I've not noticed (as my recently acquired Schaffen is to an IWC apparently) or even if it's a blatant 'lookalike' (not a fake with 'wannabe' logos, though) as my next watch arrival will be as long as a) I like the watch's design and b) the watch has sufficient quality to justify its price (I demand that buying a Rolex will buy me better quality than a Steinhart, for example).

    Lots of watches owe a lot to other watch designs (I won't retread the Sub vs FF path again), there's only so much you can do with a dress watch or a diver or even a chronograph without either spending millions on R&D and design OR producing something outlandish for the sake of it, so if someone likes the design of a watch because it appeals in its own right, I say go for it.

    If, though, you REALLY do want a Submariner or a GMT, a homage won't stop you wanting!

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 6th November 2018 at 17:03.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    I tried a Helson Omega 1000M homage, realised I liked it enough to want the real thing, bought an Omega 1000M and sold the Helson. It's the only time I've done it and I'll not get another homage. I do like the look of Eddie's Daytona homage but I don't think I'll end up with one if he makes it. If Eddie made some Smiths homages, with modern water resistance and 36-40mm cases and put - ooh, I don't know - 'Smiths' on the dial I'd be all over that but I assume there's a good reason why he hasn't and something like the current Everest doesn't look something like this: https://mrjoneswatches.com/products/...tic-steel-case

    incidentally the Steinhart homages all seem to have 22mm lugs, which would annoy the pants off me.
    "A man of little significance"

  17. #17
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    I tried a Helson Omega 1000M homage, realised I liked it enough to want the real thing, bought an Omega 1000M and sold the Helson. It's the only time I've done it and I'll not get another homage. I do like the look of Eddie's Daytona homage but I don't think I'll end up with one if he makes it. If Eddie made some Smiths homages, with modern water resistance and 36-40mm cases and put - ooh, I don't know - 'Smiths' on the dial I'd be all over that but I assume there's a good reason why he hasn't and something like the current Everest doesn't look something like this: https://mrjoneswatches.com/products/...tic-steel-case

    incidentally the Steinhart homages all seem to have 22mm lugs, which would annoy the pants off me.
    They have a wide range of 39mm now with 20mm lugs.

  18. #18
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Most important thing is not to listen to people who cry foul about the brand. Wear it enjoy it and outside of this place nobody but you will know the difference anyway.
    Agreed. Personally, I probably wouldn't buy a Steinhart Pepsi GMT though I admire the unobtainable Rolex analogue. But even if 99% of the forum think this way, it shouldn't put you off.

  19. #19
    Craftsman kinyik's Avatar
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    Always wait for what you really want. Otherwise you’d just be settling for less


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  20. #20
    Master luddite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Homage watches are perfectly legal but my own self respect prevents me from wearing them.
    Hahaha Hoho!

    I bet Rolex are laughing up their sleeves at people like you with that mindset.
    "The sheep will pay whatever we say a Rolex is worth"
    I wear my Steinhart GMT with pride in a watch which is a quality piece of kit and worth exactly what it cost, unlike Rolex.
    I'm just a very naughty boy.

    Good deals with- VINSTINK, kevkojak, Optimum, Omegary, seikoking, acg, SPEEDY, kfman, Card Shark, wajhart, Jot, danboy, zenomega, gaz64, minke, Mal52, Alas, norfolkngood, Sparky, rdwiow, mrteatime, gravedodger, joeytheghost, lordoftheflies, Silver Hawk, Filterlab, brooksy, marmisto, Fray Bentos, Bootsy, Harvey69, Mantisgb, bristolboozer, Jedadiah, newtohorology, Zephod, jimm1, Draygo, Raptor.

    I may have forgot one or two, apppologies.

  21. #21
    Master
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    Homage is not for me; I'd rather save up for the real deal or buy something different.

    There are some great affordable watches without having to buy one that is a cheap version of an expensive one.

  22. #22
    Master
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    Imitation is the highest form of flattery, no?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by luddite View Post
    Hahaha Hoho!

    I bet Rolex are laughing up their sleeves at people like you with that mindset.
    "The sheep will pay whatever we say a Rolex is worth"
    I wear my Steinhart GMT with pride in a watch which is a quality piece of kit and worth exactly what it cost, unlike Rolex.
    This exactly.

    If the 'real deal' is really worth those thousands of pounds extra to you then get it. Those companies and their yachts and and fine lifestyles will thank you mightily for buying into their brand.

  24. #24
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl.1 View Post

    This exactly.

    If the 'real deal' is really worth those thousands of pounds extra to you then get it. Those companies and their yachts and and fine lifestyles will thank you mightily for buying into their brand.
    Problem is, in 5 years time the Steinhart you buy today will be worth diddly, and the Rolex you could have bought will have a value 40% more than you pay for it today. And precisely because that 40% is of a much bigger number, that makes the Rolex look much better value than the hommage. Or better value than a bank account.

    Not that any of this "value" is important, or that anyone need to get snipey about whether or not they like/wear/buy hommages.

    We can all figure out what value systems we individually subscribe to, without being rude about others'

    Dave

  25. #25
    Master Lampoc's Avatar
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    I don't say this often but I actually agree with Mick P on this one. Plenty of well priced original designs out there.

  26. #26
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Surely the term ‘homage’ was introduced to give respectability/credibility...........

    It sounds better than “copy”.

    Doesn’t make them any less of a ‘copy’ though.

    You can call a submarine, an aeroplane............ But it doesn’t mean it can fly.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Surely the term ‘homage’ was introduced to give respectability/credibility...........

    It sounds better than “copy”.

    Doesn’t make them any less of a ‘copy’ though.

    You can call a submarine, an aeroplane............ But it doesn’t mean it can fly.
    Totally agree. I'm not really a fan of Rolex designs (other than the Explorer ) but if I were I definitely wouldn't be happy with a copy. Much better to save up the cash for a genuine item. There are loads of other quality manufacturers out there with their own unique designs that don't cost as much if the price is the barrier.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Problem is, in 5 years time the Steinhart you buy today will be worth diddly, and the Rolex you could have bought will have a value 40% more than you pay for it today. And precisely because that 40% is of a much bigger number, that makes the Rolex look much better value than the hommage. Or better value than a bank account.

    Not that any of this "value" is important, or that anyone need to get snipey about whether or not they like/wear/buy hommages.

    We can all figure out what value systems we individually subscribe to, without being rude about others'

    Dave
    Hello, i was not being rude or snipey, sorry you take it that way. It is just the truth as i see it.

    Yes Rolex do hold value, there is no doubt of that. But, Steinhart being worth diddly is wrong, i just had a look and they sell very well second hand for good value compared to new. Not 40% granted but if that is the case then grab your Rolex and sell it in five years.
    My point is that if the watch is worth that to you then get it. If you buy with the intent of it being an investment get it. But, if you want a watch that does the same job and looks the same and do not want to line the pockets of the company then get another, and i think Steinhart are a fine watch for that.

    I do not consider you rude for not having my opinion, relax a bit.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Problem is, in 5 years time the Steinhart you buy today will be worth diddly,

    Dave
    I am no fan of Steinhart but what you have written is just completely wrong.

  30. #30
    Master beechcustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    I am no fan of Steinhart but what you have written is just completely wrong.
    Indeed, they seem to retain value around these parts at a similar level to that of our Host's offerings.

  31. #31
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    The Steinhart costs a twentieth of the price of the Sub, but is probably half the watch in pure technical terms. What you're paying for with Rolex is the concept, marketing, design, hype and history (which to be fair is no easy task), but in real life technical terms the Steinhart is a steal compared to the sub.

    The thing with Rolex is the same with Apple in my view. When you're at the height of your game there's only one way you can go, and that's South. And i'm done with hearing about the importance of Rolex residuals. If it's the watch you want then great, but i wouldn't buy one purely as a financial investment.

    In some respects maybe the Steinhart could be a better long term investment as you stand to lose less in the long run.

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    Last edited by WillHarris2306; 6th November 2018 at 20:20.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    If it was to bother anyone then in reality it should bother Rolex, but their lawyers don’t seem concerned.
    Because they can't do anything about it. The intellectual property rights / patent on the sub design lapsed years ago.

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  33. #33
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    Steinhart have higher value retention than virtually any brand other than Rolex.

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  34. #34
    Master Neilw3030's Avatar
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    I didnt mean to start a bun fight over homage type watches, I was just curious how many people used one as a stepping stone into either the real deal, or maybe liked them for their own qualities, which at a fraction of the cost can appear good value.
    As to wearing/owning a Steinhart GMT for instance as nobody really is going to know its not a Rolex was not my intention, I like the Rolex and would have one at rrp but not at a premium. To satisfy my desire for "the look" maybe the Steinhart would scratch that itch until such time.
    I do like microbrands and have a few, I generally steer away from the sub clones, mostly as i dont really like the mercedes hands, the clones with other hand designs are more appealing as they steer away from the original somewhat.
    I did message Gnommon and ask if the hand set on the gmt could be changed for a blade type, but the answer was no, but that is something im sure i could sort really.
    There is room in my collection for real and homages as i like variety, maybe santa might bring me one for christmas.

  35. #35
    Craftsman
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    I think the Steinhart should scratch that itch nicely.

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  36. #36
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    Just about to receive my 2nd Steinhart (have the Kermit and Double Red Sub in Rolex terms) and think they are cracking. Own a few Rolex so easy to compare, but just go ahead and do it.

    Plus Steinhart service is a league ABOVE Rolex in terms of looking after you as in individual IMO. So all in all a great buy

  37. #37
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Problem is, in 5 years time the Steinhart you buy today will be worth diddly, and the Rolex you could have bought will have a value 40% more than you pay for it today. And precisely because that 40% is of a much bigger number, that makes the Rolex look much better value than the hommage. Or better value than a bank account.

    Not that any of this "value" is important, or that anyone need to get snipey about whether or not they like/wear/buy hommages.

    We can all figure out what value systems we individually subscribe to, without being rude about others'

    Dave
    I bought a steinhart in 2011 for £350 and sold it for £1100. Ok it was a limited edition but there are always exceptions to the rule. To be honest most steinharts hold their value in the used market very well.

  38. #38
    Master smalleyboy1's Avatar
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    I’d like to be able to buy a Milsub but my pockets aren’t deep enough. I’m happy to wear the Gnomon Steinhart OMV homage.

    Given the current shortage of Rolex SS models, I think a Steinhart is a cost effective alternative.

  39. #39
    Master
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    I've had several Rolex ss sports models but have sold them all and now only have a Ginault. Quality-wise, with the Ginault, I find it indistinguishable on the wrist to the Rolexes, visually I prefer it (5 digit case, sword hands, maxi-dial etc.) and the timekeeping is ~+5s per day, which is good enough for me. To answer the OP, my experience has been:

    - I don't miss the Rolexes at all, and enjoy the feeling of wearing something less common and far better VFM (imo)
    - I don't worry about damaging or losing it
    - I don't feel I've got a cashable check on my wrist so the temptation to flip is reduced (!)

    When I look at the Ginault I'm reminded of 2 things:
    1. what a perfect, timeless design the 'sub' is and
    2. at the end of the day, it's just a trinket, a lump of steel on the end of the wrist that shouldn't be taken too seriously

    So I would say, try a decent homage and see how you feel. That said, I have scratched the Rolex itch and maybe most of us need to before we can decide to move on (or not) ...

  40. #40
    ^^^^^^^
    Such a refreshing post.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrumpy View Post
    Way way OTT! Are you aware of the difference between a Hommage and a fake??? The 'Chinese' factories you mention are almost certainly turning out fakes, so of course they say that they are Rolexs and have Rolex on the dial!!! Steinhart (and many others) are producing quality products (with genuine Swiss movements) that look rather like certain others with 'Steinhart' on the dial. A Steinhart is a genuine Steinhart, not a fake Rolex. Where is the cheating in that?
    Take a chill pill. I am talking about Alpha, Ginault, Parnis, etc.

    Most of them state clearly on their website that what you get is not their original design.

    There would be no problem if Steinhart did the same and added for example "Steinhart Homage to Rolex model X" in their watch details. Watch hobbyists know but not everyone.

  42. #42
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    The first mechanical I bought myself five years ago was the Rodina automatic, which was briefly very fashionable in places like the WUS Affordables Forum.

    At first I thought it was 'just' a homage of the Nomos Tangente. Since the Tangente was itself just a revival of a general pre-war style, this seemed harmless. Chinese made, with a decent Seagull movement, it was $120, and was good solid value for money.

    After a while, I realised that it wasn't 'just' a homage, but in fact an exact-as-possible copy of the Nomos Tangomat. The biggest difference in the design was that as the movement was thicker than that in the Tangomat, pushing the caseback out, the long lugs were a little higher above the wrist.

    As well as the general naive approval on WUS, some people were pointing out that homages like these, deliberately copying the original in every way possible, would be coming from the same places as fakes.

    A couple of years later, another German-style Rodina watch appeared. It was noticed that the manufacturers had got lazy: rather than bothering to create a fresh caseback for it, they had used what they had to hand - which was branded "Stowa". Truly these watches were coming from the place as the fakes.

    By this time I had stopped wearing my Rodina, as my wrist had tired of the long lugs, but I had hung onto it as a momento, what with it being my first purchase since delving into watches. However, when I saw the direct connection with the fakes, I couldn't bear to keep it any longer, it went immediately.

    Were I interested in that style of watch, I would be very tempted by the Ginault Ocean Rover, but, having learnt my lesson with the Rodina, the fear that this immaculate copying of the Rolex originals shows that the parts are coming from the same factories that supply the manufacturers of fakes would never leave me. I like to love my watches, not worry about them.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    The first mechanical I bought myself five years ago was the Rodina automatic, which was briefly very fashionable in places like the WUS Affordables Forum.

    At first I thought it was 'just' a homage of the Nomos Tangente. Since the Tangente was itself just a revival of a general pre-war style, this seemed harmless. Chinese made, with a decent Seagull movement, it was $120, and was good solid value for money.

    After a while, I realised that it wasn't 'just' a homage, but in fact an exact-as-possible copy of the Nomos Tangomat. The biggest difference in the design was that as the movement was thicker than that in the Tangomat, pushing the caseback out, the long lugs were a little higher above the wrist.

    As well as the general naive approval on WUS, some people were pointing out that homages like these, deliberately copying the original in every way possible, would be coming from the same places as fakes.

    A couple of years later, another German-style Rodina watch appeared. It was noticed that the manufacturers had got lazy: rather than bothering to create a fresh caseback for it, they had used what they had to hand - which was branded "Stowa". Truly these watches were coming from the place as the fakes.

    By this time I had stopped wearing my Rodina, as my wrist had tired of the long lugs, but I had hung onto it as a momento, what with it being my first purchase since delving into watches. However, when I saw the direct connection with the fakes, I couldn't bear to keep it any longer, it went immediately.

    Were I interested in that style of watch, I would be very tempted by the Ginault Ocean Rover, but, having learnt my lesson with the Rodina, the fear that this immaculate copying of the Rolex originals shows that the parts are coming from the same factories that supply the manufacturers of fakes would never leave me. I like to love my watches, not worry about them.
    That's my issue with Ginault, not Steinhart. I know what I'm getting with Steinhart and it's ok with me.

  44. #44
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiro View Post
    No respect to Steinhart because they state nowhere on their site what’s the name of their game. Even most Chinese homage factories clearly mention that these watches are not original designs. Dirty cheat.

    Absolute poppycock.
    F.T.F.A.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    Absolute poppycock.
    I don't understand how you can pay homage to some other brand if you take the credit yourself
    Apparently, their business model would fall if this info was put public on their site.

  46. #46
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    I stand corrected on Steinhart retention value, fair enough, and I wasn't meaning to make the snipey comment about the post that I quoted, just the nature of this thread in general, which was deteriorating like so many others have done here.
    I apologise.

    the point I made (a little clumsily)was that only thing in favour of any hommage, by definition, is the value proposition. There is no other reason to buy hommage over the original, and I wanted to make the point that the original (in the case of Rolex) has its own value proposition. It is just different from the hommage's one.

    I am very keen that we all get on, and that people find enjoyment all over the watch spectrum, from top to bottom.
    In terms of pleasure of ownership, I have taken just as much from my relatively affordable Armida as from some much more pricey buys.
    I am no brand snob in that regard.

    But I really like good design, and brands like Halios are currently showing that you do not have to make hommages to make very nice-looking, well-specified and well-made watches that sell very well with a value tag.

    The task of making a hommage is easier because others have made a massive success of the design that the hommage maker is following.
    All the hard design work is already done, all they just have to make sure they do not make a mess of it.
    And this seems a little like taking short cuts, to me.

    So personally I would much prefer to buy an original design with a value proposition, rather than a design that makes value out of a more expensive model.

    So I would buy a Seaforth ahead of any sub-hommage. They could both fill the same slot in the watch box (Tidy, dressy but tool-specified dive watch), but the Seaforth is its own master and the better for it.

    However, and here the argument breaks down, I suppose I have just bought a hommage, as that I am waiting for the delivery of a PRS-29AM.
    In my value system, that is different, as it is not a hommage to a perfectly usable original, it is a hommage to a rare vintage one that I simply couldn't wear, day in, day out, because of the fragility (and lack of WR) of the original AM watches.
    The original simply could not fulfill the role that I expect Eddie's creation will in my watchbox, which gives me all the justification I need to buy one, instead of hunting down an original.


    Dave

  47. #47
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiro View Post
    I don't understand how you can pay homage to some other brand if you take the credit yourself
    Apparently, their business model would fall if this info was put public on their site.

    Balderdash.
    F.T.F.A.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    I stand corrected on Steinhart retention value, fair enough, and I wasn't meaning to make the snipey comment about the post that I quoted, just the nature of this thread in general, which was deteriorating like so many others have done here.
    I apologise.

    the point I made (a little clumsily)was that only thing in favour of any hommage, by definition, is the value proposition. There is no other reason to buy hommage over the original, and I wanted to make the point that the original (in the case of Rolex) has its own value proposition. It is just different from the hommage's one.

    I am very keen that we all get on, and that people find enjoyment all over the watch spectrum, from top to bottom.
    In terms of pleasure of ownership, I have taken just as much from my relatively affordable Armida as from some much more pricey buys.
    I am no brand snob in that regard.

    But I really like good design, and brands like Halios are currently showing that you do not have to make hommages to make very nice-looking, well-specified and well-made watches that sell very well with a value tag.

    The task of making a hommage is easier because others have made a massive success of the design that the hommage maker is following.
    All the hard design work is already done, all they just have to make sure they do not make a mess of it.
    And this seems a little like taking short cuts, to me.

    So personally I would much prefer to buy an original design with a value proposition, rather than a design that makes value out of a more expensive model.

    So I would buy a Seaforth ahead of any sub-hommage. They could both fill the same slot in the watch box (Tidy, dressy but tool-specified dive watch), but the Seaforth is its own master and the better for it.

    However, and here the argument breaks down, I suppose I have just bought a hommage, as that I am waiting for the delivery of a PRS-29AM.
    In my value system, that is different, as it is not a hommage to a perfectly usable original, it is a hommage to a rare vintage one that I simply couldn't wear, day in, day out, because of the fragility (and lack of WR) of the original AM watches.
    The original simply could not fulfill the role that I expect Eddie's creation will in my watchbox, which gives me all the justification I need to buy one, instead of hunting down an original.


    Dave
    Exactly and there in lies the nub of the argument; it gives YOU all the justification needed just like it gives everyone else in buying ANY hommage, the justification THEY needed and in fact to me, there in lies the true essence of this hobby. Enjoy.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    Balderdash.
    ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    Balderdash.
    ?

  50. #50
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiro View Post
    I don't understand how you can pay homage to some other brand if you take the credit yourself
    Apparently, their business model would fall if this info was put public on their site.
    You mean people who buy Steinhart Ocean Ones don't know they're very similar to Rolex Subs and would need to be told?

    I can't see your argument here.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    However, and here the argument breaks down, I suppose I have just bought a hommage, as that I am waiting for the delivery of a PRS-29AM.
    In my value system, that is different, as it is not a hommage to a perfectly usable original, it is a hommage to a rare vintage one that I simply couldn't wear, day in, day out, because of the fragility (and lack of WR) of the original AM watches.
    The original simply could not fulfill the role that I expect Eddie's creation will in my watchbox, which gives me all the justification I need to buy one, instead of hunting down an original.
    I totally agree with your sentiment about original design that I've not included in the quote, but I think the above (while a good point) can equally be argued on a cost basis.

    The Helson Sharkmaster 600 is a very close look-alike of the Omega Ploprof, no-one is going to quibble about that.

    In some regards it exceeds the original, I understand, but Omega make that watch again now (with even greater WR and modern materials), so many will say the Sharkmaster is just a 'rip-off'.

    However, many people, while liking the design will balk at paying £10K for a dive watch that, realistically, is going to be an occasional wear, even if they could afford it.

    Personally, I wouldn't dive in a £10K watch (I'm not sure my understanding insurance company would cover the loss for one thing and I can't afford to lose £10K) no matter if it has WR to 1000M! I probably will dive in the Sharkmaster (at least in clear tropical water!), so in that way, the homage serves a purpose that the original couldn't, it will get used properly whereas I wouldn't feel happy doing so with the vastly more expensive Omega version (it's not, really, even original now, but an in-house homage! ).

    Saving up for an expensive watch is fine if you really, really want that specific watch, with all the attendant background, brand association and 'heritage' and won't worry about wearing it, but if you just like the basic design, but not 'enough' then buying a watch that offers much of the design and qualities of that watch, but doesn't pretend to BE that watch is fine by me.

    Your point about wearability is good. I think mine's the same, but based on the cost of the Omega, in this case.

    I'm sure some will think, if not outright say, that you shouldn't have a watch that looks like a costly one if you're not prepared to pay the entry fee for the original, but that's a different argument, I think.

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 7th November 2018 at 11:34.

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