Reply With QuoteI’m a bit like that as well, though i can sometimes tell a decent wine, but not always.
Very offer. When I’ve been in Italy or France I’ve just had a glass of the house red that the locals drink and it’s good enough for me.
I must be a heathen. Yes they all taste different and I can tell plonk from reasonable wine I think but reading the blurb eg ‘ a grassy blackcurrant - leaf nose with a deliciously saline texture and hints of acacia blossom’ . Really?
How much would you pay per bottle on average? Where do you draw the line?
I’m a bit like that as well, though i can sometimes tell a decent wine, but not always.
Very offer. When I’ve been in Italy or France I’ve just had a glass of the house red that the locals drink and it’s good enough for me.
I enjoy wine but it all tastes the same to me. I just buy the £4 bottles from Tesco or Lidl. Does the job :)
No but I can tell an £18 bottle of whisky from a £60 one so I do ‘get it’ when I hear wine people talking like your example.
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Not after the third bottle I can’t .
Yes, is the short answer. Think about this also - the bottle, label, cork or screw top, duty and distribution within the UK after bottling virtually all cost the same regardless. So, which is the better value regarding the contents?
Thanks to varying costs and varying reputations, the price of a bottle of wine is not proportionate to its quality. If you give me one single small estate's £20 wine next to their £8 wine, of course the difference will be obvious. The question of which you prefer will remain. Furthermore, there's a decent chance that the more expensive wine won't yet be ready to drink, and so might have unappealing characteristics at the moment. I once had two identical bottles of a wine made in 1997. In 2003 it was "challenging"; in 2013 it was absolutely delicious. In 2003, I could make a reasonable calculation of how long it needed to sort itself out, but given that it literally tasted of tomatoes, I wouldn't have expected anyone to think it anything other than disgusting.
Buckfast all the way!
£8 minimum up to about £35. above that the increase in depth of flavour/subtleties etc seems to diminish and i can't think of many higher priced bottles where i have thought ‘wow’
i would rather go without than drink cheap plonk, its harder and harder to get decent wine below £8 as the amount going to the actual liquid after taxes etc is minimal.
The expensive bottle may be better value but does that equate to a tastier wine whatever ‘tastier’ is?Originally Posted by ALindsay
Agreed. Strip out the costs that don’t relate to the wine itself and you are probably left with about 50p of wine in a bottle with an RRP of £5. For a £10 RRP bottle the wine content would generally be about £3.
Those calculations are ridiculous.
There is no need to be an expert. A good wine is a wine you like. Whether it cost £5 or £500.
Just like with any thing, including watches, you need to learn if you want to appreciate the subtleties.
Therefore there is little point to throw big money at it if your palate only gets kebabs, phal and lager.
If however you’re interested, you can use the opportunity of a trip to a vineyard region to visit and sample. Remember to let the winemaker know that whatever you’re sampling tastes a bit like this memorable JP Cheney you bought in Eastenders 5 or 6 years ago. They’ll smile in acknowledgment that you share the same values.
Alternatively, you can listen to him and try to find the flavours he claims are there. Don’t think he lied to you if at first you don’t succeed. Try, and try again (not on the same day, though)
Make a note of the types of grapes being used, and soon you will recognise them even in different regions. But more importantly, you will learn the ones you like, and you can then start to spend your money wisely.
One more thing: vine making is now a thoroughly understood process. There are virtually no plonk left that are properly bottled (you still find some in plastic bottle or Tetrapak). That also goes for the better wines which do not always need ageing to achieve perfection. Your wine merchant, or the wine maker, will tell you.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
^^^^ Ridiculous, but widely used by those in the wine industry as a simple illustration of not being able to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.
I don’t disagree. But at the end of the day it’s irrelevant in as much that if you take 2 bottles at the same price, you may love one and hTe the other. So the only thing that should matter to a customer is whether they like it, or not.
Then, the more educated the nose and palate, the more you can throw money at it and get value for your money.
Give 18 yo lads a Calatrava among 8 or 9 designer watches and most will leave the Patek. Tell him how much it’s worth and he might take it.
Same with wine.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Wonder if it’s education that determines a good wine or just clever marketing?
If you are trying the wines side by side the difference in taste and smell is usually fairly obvious.
However when trying just a single bottle on its own, it's not usually as easy to determine which end of the price scale to place it.
I agree. At the end of the day it’s down to personal taste. I have often used the £5/£10 example if sharing wines of the same style with friends who traditionally haven’t been interested in wines, without telling them the respective prices of the bottles.
Some may prefer the cheaper and that’s fine. Others may express an interest and say they much prefer the one that turns out to be the more expensive - using the £5/£10 content breakdown helps illustrate a possible reason why they may prefer it.
I'm a bit of a wine pleb but I find if I get a £6-8 bottle from Aldi it's always very nice! In particular their 'exquisite' chilean merlot
Also Costco's own kirkland bottles of red are very nice (to me :))
16p apparently!
https://www.corksout.com/whats-in-your-bottle/
I once went on a corporate hospitality day (back in the early 2000's) on which the last activity of the day was a wine tasting round a fire pit.
The wine expert came along with 5 different wines for us to try from various regions and talked us through each one "blind" the competition being to see if we could tell which country each came from.
We all agreed the first four wines were very nice, but the 5th... most of us took one sip and through the rest away as disgusting.
We then watched the wine expert jumping up and down, most put out as he then went on to tell us where each wine had come from including the last wine a top class vintage Chateauneuf de Pape with a price tag of around £300 a bottle.
So you now know you like merlot.
You can start looking for varietal wines, made from a single type of grapes.
It is a relatively recent trend, as new wine makers in America (North and South, like your Chilean) and Australia marketed their product this way.
It is an excellent initiation to wine tasting because you can enjoy the variations and identify the common traits across the different wines.
In France for example merlot is South West to South (Languedoc) but Bordeaux has all the wines from Libournais (St Emilion, Pomerol, etc.) merlot-rich, and to respond to customer demand some have started varietal wines.
In general, (Alsace is the exception) French wines are traditionally the result of an assemblage, a mixture of different grapes. Each will bring its intrinsic qualities to the wine, and it’s a more sophisticated process. New world wines are starting this as well, usually with 2 types of grapes (Merlot-Shiraz for example). Once you’ve tried several merlot and identified the common characteristics, you can try to taste them in an assemblage. You will be amazed of how subtle your tastebuds can become.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
As Christmas is coming lets have some good recommendations then.
I've had an 80p bottle of red wine in Bulgaria (before it was a popular holiday destination) that was simply fantastic. And I've had a £155 bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape that was distinctly 'meh'.
So I know that price isn't an indicator of quality or potability. I can't tell if a wine is from the south side of the vineyard or anything, but as a veteran of literally hundreds of corporate dinners, and all I can tell is if a red wine is good, OK, poor or off.
Recommend one from Waitrose “fine” section
Rustenberg John Merriman
A red from South Africa I believe.
Usually about £15 but regularly seen at 10.99 on offer there
OP, I used to think much the same as you and bought all my wine from the 'heavy ozzie reds at £6-10 per bottle' range. I could not see the point in paying more as the subtle differences were wasted on my 'heathen' tastebuds.
But then we ate out at the Midsummer House restaurant in Cambridge and had the 'flight of wines' to accompany each course of the tasting menu. It was massive eye opener, as I could pick up on all the different subtleties of flavour and how each wine therefore complimented each course. All of the usual BS descriptions of 'floral, citrus, sulphur, cherries and chocolate' etc, all now seemed really obvious to detect. Maybe it was because I was just taking the time to think about what I was drinking (and how it tasted) rather than just quaffing it while cooking/chewing the fat with friends. Who knows.
I still buy wines in the £6-10 range though, but that is more aimed at the level of enjoyment that I get out of drinking the wine rather than the fact that I cannot tell the differences. I am simply just not a £50 bottle of wine kinda guy (unless it is with a fancy meal, eaten out....).
£50 bottle of wine in the restaurant is actually £10 bottle of plonk they bought in a wine shop around the corner ;)
Fas est ab hoste doceri
And if that doesn't leave a nasty taste in the mouth ....
Yeah that £50 for a £10 bottle pisses me off no end. To the point of putting me off eating out.
That stops me visiting restaurants, I have a good look at the wine list and if it’s more than double mark up I go elsewhere, I don’t care how good the food is. They often buy from merchants that have 2 lists one for restaurants and corporate so so you can’t tell the retail price but if you know your wine it’s easy to see when they are taking the piss.
I used to like cheaper wines but as I gradually went up market and tried more expensive ones found it difficult to go back. Cheapers one now taste crap. If I tried a pricey one, say £50 I could taste the more complicated flavours which made it worth the money.
Same for vodka and gin. Used to love standard brands but have now been enticed by the more expensive ones that taste so good.
We soak the label off of any memorable bottles of wine we have and decorate the inside of our cupboards. Someone who once worked for me only drank red wine with a splash of lemonade (!) gave me a bottle of wine from a box of 6 that her husband had bought 'Knock off’ in a pub. They'd been drinking it with the obligatory splash of lemonade at home. We had it with a Chinese takeaway and tipped half of it down the sink. It wasn't very nice! They didn’t like it either and gave me their two remaining bottles. I drank another one. Still awful. I looked it up and...fuck me! How much? I invited my mate around who was well into his wine and he said it was 'alright'. It still tasted like vinegar to me. I must have cheap tastes! It was this one.
It was half this price ten years ago. It says optimum drinking time between between 2017 and 2025 according to the blurb so we probably drank it 10 years too early! Who can wait that long?
https://www.cadmanfinewines.co.uk/ca...97-102989.html
Last edited by Motman; 9th November 2018 at 20:08.
Correct! Wine margins in restaurants are generally a piss take, I recently saw a Puille Fume ( Not Fuisse) in a restaurant for £55 which is a nonsense as you can buy it in a supermarket for £16 tops!
Best value for me is a reasonable estate claret for £10 to £15. Awful load of old cobblers often talked about wine, if YOU enjoy a particular bottle and you think the price is fair value then bingo, happy days!
I can't tell the difference so now I to pay less than $7/bottle, or just buy a box that has 4L for $16. Daughter did an elective at Melbourne Uni as part of her business course on wine-making/tasting. It involved spending a week at the uni's vineyard learning this and that. She reckons the VFM price-point is $15-20. Every now and then I will splash out on a $15 one but can't tell the difference to the $7.
Like most people, the big blockbuster reds appeal to my probably - clumsy pallet.
So - the big New World reds really appeal.
But - a good Cote Rote, or Classed French Bordeaux -is a lovely treat. I can recommend Chateau Battailley as a particular favourite which punches well above its ‘official’ rating.
If I was planning a goose for Christmas - I used to go for a bottle of Penfolds RWT, but it has really shot up in cost now.
Probably the majority of good winemakers do very little marketing. Many have so many merchants knocking at the door that they allocate stock to long term buyers only.
Personally I hardly ever buy wine from supermarkets. The vast majority comes from the Wine Society, a good specialist merchant (Yapps of Mere) and an English vineyard that I’m keeping to myself.
I’m a huge fan of the Wine Society. They have a great list with some excellent stuff in the £6-£8 range as well as some of the worlds great wines. They are non-profit making so prices are keen.
I’ve gone off wine in recent years. Much prefer whisky now.
I kind of can, but I will add that there are some great wines in the £6-£10 price bracket, so 99% of the time I see no reason to spend more. I confess also that Aldi’s £12 Champagne or a similar priced Cremont is the equal of most main stream £40 Champagnes too.
As others have mentioned too Whiskey is for me more distinctive, but again it doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy an £18 bottle out of Aldi nearly as much as a £95 Glenfidich Distillers Edition 15 yo.
If you enjoy it drink it. Hell I’ll happily sup on a Cava or bog standard Gruner Vertliner or Blaufrankische; all at well under £8 a bottle.
Join the Wine Society. Thank me later.
Taste is something specific to the individuals pallet. Therefore drink wines you like and can afford rather than worrying about what's on the label. If you find stuff you like which is cheap then so much the better.
Persinally I would not spent money of a top end, single grape, single vineyard wine ( I have found them disappointing in the past) unless I had already tasted it. But perhaps my pallet is not sufficiently evolved/educated enough to appreciate it.
I am a member of Naked Wines and for about £11/bottle you get very nice wines. I also supplement my everyday cellar from Lidi - really nice South African, Australian single grape wines for about £5 plus they have a screw top
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
They’re all shit.
Which is why when all the above costs are factored in I don't understand how I can purchase a perfectly quaffable Rioja from the local Mercadona in Nerja for under 2 euros.
My dad and I always used to make a point of buying a litre bottle of red wine with a plastic stopper when we went to Le Mans.
Half way through it tasted fine
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I’d second this, I’d go camping in France and buy the cheapest local plonk at under €2 a bottle, it wasn’t the last word in refinement but blew me away how decent some were at this level.My dad and I always used to make a point of buying a litre bottle of red wine with a plastic stopper when we went to Le Mans.
Half way through it tasted fine
M
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Much to my surprise, some of the best red wine I have ever drunk comes from the local Bodega. You buy it loose and take your own container and it is different every week.
The price works out at 80 pence a bottle.
Aldi sell two champagnes that i prefer over Moet or Veuve Cliquot NV. One is £11-99 and the other a bit more.
Try them.
Majestic are offering some decent discounts on a wide range of good wines.
Portugese wines (Douro/Porto) are amazing v.f.m. as are their various offers on Prosecco
My personal favourites of red grapes are Tempranillo, (Ribera in particular), Pinot Noir/Gamay, Merlot and at times Syrah (Shiraz)
Check which years are most recommended though ...
Happy hunting
Cheers, Peter
I can’t tell whether wine has cost £4 or £50. I’m not convinced that price has anything at all to do with it.
What I can tell is whether I like it or not. I’ve had wines at both ends of the price range that I’ve liked and others I haven’t. After all it is quite literally a matter of taste. Some may scoff, but my favourite is a red from Aldi that costs under £4. Guess I’m just lucky that what I like is cheap.
This^^^ many happy times strolling down to this place,,,
http://www.lesvigneronsduluc.com/index.html
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Wine, Watches, Art, Women and Cars are all subject to man's ........well subjectivity so I rarely recommend any one in particular.
I will, as a guide though, refuse point blank to pay some ridiculous restaurant markups and sometimes ask the sommelier to let me know the wine on the list with the lowest markup.
One of our local hostelries has quite a few wines upwards of £1k a bottle (I think £4k is top whack).
From my experience they are bought by Nouveaus that are trying to impress their less fortunate dining companions.
I always say if its "off petrol" on the nose then its worth a try.............as for price.....................hmm
For christmas I normally get a £11-18 Chablis for the guests arriving and maybe a Gevrey Chambertin for lunch £26-40.
My day to day tends to be a young white with a splash of water or soda.
B
If we choose to have a red night then for a cheap, fruity light character wine with relatively few sulphites then we don't think you can beat the yellow tail Jimmy red roo - that inludes our guests opinions
Last edited by Brian; 11th November 2018 at 12:12.
We did two wine tasting tours in Corsica this summer. The first ones wines were around €7 to €8 and were delicious. The seconds ones were €10 to €15 and we weren’t very keen on them at all, so to me it’s down to personal taste.
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