The default always used to be a BSA Meteor being easy to maintain, relatively cheap and a good compromise between power and accuracy for the beginner.
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A friend has asked me about purchasing an air rifle as he knows I shoot, now, apart from a 1908 Lincoln jefferies, I haven't owned an air rifle for nigh on 30 years, so............
he would like one to take the occasional rabbit in his fields but also to do some garden target shooting with his 10 year old son, could the collective geniuses on here give me some views on a good springer and a good pcp set up for this?
The default always used to be a BSA Meteor being easy to maintain, relatively cheap and a good compromise between power and accuracy for the beginner.
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.22 better than .177 for rabbits.
For the activities described I would buy a springer as opposed to the alternatives.
Best advice would be to pop into a local gunroom for a chat. You can usually buy a package for less than a couple of hundred pounds.
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Air arms rifles are always a good place to start. They do some fantastic pcps, I have the SL510 magazine fed and supremely accurate and also some fantastic springers, TX200, Prosport but the springers will be heavy for a 10 year old so pcp would be better.
Or buy a pcp then a BSA Meteor for the 10 year old.
Also look at some of the Weihrauchs, but they are heavy!
I used to have an S410 and a HW80. I would be able to stack pellets with the S410, not so much the HW80 (probably more operator error on my behalf!). Given the choice I'd go down the PCP route, especially for rabbits. Gives you that option of a quick follow up shot if required. Be more expensive though as you'll need the air bottle to go with it.
I only have springers and the only makes I like are Air Arms and Weihrauch, saying that I dont hunt, if I did I would use a multi shot PCP..
Now its not like the springers cant handle hunting as they are deadly accurate if set up correctly but its all the other hassle, weight, one shot and reload, noise, recoil, these alone making hunting harder, if your going to kill something then you need to respect it and give it a painless death, .22 is good as it packs a punch but you need to understand your distances and pellet drop. .177 will have a flatter trajectory and penetrate more, remember you can buy heavier pellets (grains) for hunting.
More importantly though, lots of practice is needed before attempting to hunt, one missed shot will cause the animal untold pain so confidence in a good head shot is a must.
This thread has taken me back more than 30 years! I used to go ‘pest shooting’ on the local farms with my dad, air rifles at first and then shotguns.
I can’t remember exactly which rifles we had, but I know they were Weirauch, I think my dad had an HW80, and I had an under cocking one that had over and under barrels. An HW77 I think?
I know they were very accurate when setup properly, and the .22 used to cleanly kill rabbits and pigeons at 20-30 yards. As above though, plenty of practice required before live quarry should be taken.
Stoeger X20 springer can be had with scope, silencing and carry case for less than 200 pounds.
Good cheap all rounder. I even got 1000 pellets and targets thrown in.
22 too.
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I agree with previous posters that Air Arms pcp is the way to go. I use a .22 S510 which I've found to be much quicker and quieter in use than any springers I've used. As mentioned, the downside is that they aren't cheap and get even pricier when you add air bottles and some extras like decent telescopic sights.
Another recommendation for Air Arms, I have a 410.
This is making me want another S410. Rattling off all 10 shots in quick succession was *so* satisfying.
Another one for Air Arms here, I’ve got both TX200’s but might be a bit heavy for a 10 year old.
Cheers
Simon
Ralph Waldo Emerson: We ask for long life, but 'tis deep life, or noble moments that signify. Let the measure of time be spiritual, not mechanical.
I'd say a springer for the low maintenance and cost. For a ten year old, an Hw30, although this would limit hunting to about 20 yards due to the power. If not then an hw99s would be perfect (although might need a small but of work to sort out potential galling of the cocking arm). Springers tend to be a little less snappy with 22 pellets than 177.
If he wants a PCP, then the artemis p15 is a good choice. Affordable, nice and light, and very accurate. Only issue is that some are being shipped over 12ftlb so would have to get the RFD to chronograph it for him. If money isn't much of an issue then I'd also say an air arms s410 or s510. I've the s510 US and it is a brilliant bit of kit.
And no need to worry about pellet choice regarding suitability for hunting. Each has pros and cons, but in terms of doing the business, if the shooter does their part, then the rabbit will be dead as a dead thing regardless of pellet size.
Last edited by hafle; 28th October 2018 at 18:31.
I currently have an Airarms S410 carbine. It is a great bit of kit, accurate, reliable and very well put together. I had put a bipod on and my lads have no bother using it this way. They are not the cheapest option, as others have noted, but you might be able to get a good package price online.
J
I agree with this. Air Arms are great rifles but certainly not worth the initial outlay given the lad is 10 and may or not like it. That the OP is 30 years out of touch too. If they both like it. Then yes move up.
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This guy also loves, Air Arms, Daystate and loads of others.
Here’s the cheap as chips Stoeger
https://youtu.be/MQlwbA8zROM
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Notwithstanding associated costs, I would recommend a PCP every time (negligible recoil). And definitely .22 for rabbits.
I own two FX airguns (a Wildcat FAC and a non-FAC Cutlas) and a Weihrauch HW57 springer -- all are .22. The FX guns are extraordinarily accurate, and you ought to be able to pick up a second hand Cutlas for reasonable money.
This was my 13 year old granddaughter with the Cutlas at 25 metres . . . .
If you really want a springer, I'd sell you the HW57 (Suffolk collection) for a reasonable offer.
As I said before I have springers and I have a Weihrauch HW30's for my lad, well I say that but I do enjoy shooting it myself as its a great little light airgun, but for hunting rabbits - no, adult springers are fine but again you need a technique to make it enjoyable and fair to the game.
Its a bit like watches, you can end up collecting them and before you know it you have too many! I like to restore old airguns and home tune them for smoothness and eliminate spring noise while keeping them well below the 12ftlb limit..
Is this an air rifle/watch combo or the wrong place?!
Good grouping for your Granddaughter
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While l agree that there are better places on the forum to discuss air rifles than "watch talk". I really don't see why it would turn bitchy on the part of any participant if one did so. But this being the place it is...
Edit. I do wish all you avid shootists the best of luck in the age old struggle between man and defenceless animal.
Especially the eternal foe - the deadly rabbit...
Last edited by Umbongo; 28th October 2018 at 22:35.
Is it safe to wear your watch while shooting with rifles?
Looks like it could actually be safer to do so - https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...mage-513201447
So why definitely .22 for rabbits? For the ranges sub 12 offers, and sub 12 itself, knockdown is irrelevant. If the shooter hits the right place then it is dead regardless of calibre. Given the limitations, the caliber has nothing to do with the ability to make the kill, but it is about what one offers over the other such as forgiving trajectories or potentially better ballistic coefficients. Those things can certainly be debated, and one might be better for one person than the other, but if you think 177 isn't suitable for rabbits then it's because the shooter is not competent, nothing more.
It does come down to personal preferences, .22 does deliver more energy into the target, it’s heavier and retains more energy but air rifle shooting isn’t just about energy, it’s also about your field craft and shot placement. Placing a pellet exactly in the right spot is everything and that’s much easier to do courtesy of the more forgiving ballistics of a .177 with a flat trajectory. Oh and a lot of practice.
J
hw100 ks .177 for rats ...22lr for rabbits ...sometimes .17hmr for rabbits depending on location...goes off with a bit of a crack
my .177 will stop rabbits just as effectively as a .22 as stated need precision placement and boy is it precise
Last edited by subzeer0; 29th October 2018 at 07:50.
As long as you don’t point your watch at someone.
HW 100 KT 1.77 job done. Tell him to spend as much on the scope but try a few first.
I have a Steyr HFT HP with Sightron 10x50x60 only target shoot now but it’s bull on bull at 50yrds.
I clean mine every 250 to keep the accuracy although not every gun likes the same cleaning routine, then after 10 shots it’s back in target.
If he’s out in the field he may want a bottle as you would get about 40 shots unless he gets a bigger air cylinder.
Plenty more variables when your actually shooting.
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Last edited by Volvomanuk; 29th October 2018 at 08:06.
Most rabbits I shot with a HW77k in .177cal.
A common mistake is thinking you can shoot a target at 40+ metres zo you can kill an animal at the same distance. If you say you can kill with 1 shot at that range every time, you are not being honest. 25-30 M is best.
Don't forget a top quality sound moderator, or you will have to change location after every shot with a pcp!
I’m a member of a norfolk air rifle club and nearly everyone shoots everything .177 - and we must have a member with virtually every current pcp and springer at the club (quite a few own 20+ guns and use them for HFT and on their farms to control Corvids and rats etc)
Pcp’s can be almost silent but something like an HW97K is a good (if heavy) springer. I find pcp’s a bit boring to shoot tbh, almost too accurate whereas a springer needs a bit more skill and practice.
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Just purchased an FX impact..
Based on the fact I can get 700 shots from one fill and a 21 shot magazine..
The best place to ask for advice on air rifles isn't a watch forum.
The best place is at your local air gun club.
Google BFTA air gun clubs.
My recommendations would be Air Arm S200 for pre charged, I wouldn't recommend a spring gun for a 10 year old as they need a bit of muscle to cock and fire.
I'm just a very naughty boy.
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I may have forgot one or two, apppologies.
^^^^^^^ you are Rambo and I claim my £5 ^^^^^^^^^^
that certainly is a beast!!!
I’ve owned quite a few pcp and springers but only have springers left now!
I owned the FX Verminator in 177 variant and even though it was the original it was light, well balanced, easy to use, accurate repeatedly and just fun to use! If you want robust and fail safe I had an S410 which was perfect for any use and never let me down but the same could be said for my HW100 which in the carbine and thumbhole stock version has to be one of the best pcp rifles ever made!
With spirngers it’s down to weight for me as the TX200 is heavy but solid but some of the lighter guns with synthetic stocks are badly made?!? I have ended up keeping a few of the older Weihrauch break barrels as my go to springers that have been in my collection for 20 years plus!! I do however live the HW97 with the thumbhole stock but have been told it’s another cumbersome heavy rifle that needs a diet?!?!
Good luck as there are thousands of options out there now especially second hand!
Chris
I also have a TX200, it is a heavy old girl mind you, PCP tend to easier to shoot more accurate, but a bit soulless
Scottie
For the younger chap I would say Weihrauch HW30S and as others have said you wont go far wrong with the Air Arms S200+10 to get you into PCP's...
Mark Camoccio has a review here of the HW30S
And a couple of mine, totally personal... a bit like watches really ......
Well if we're having an air rifle thread then...
Just had delivered a Photon RT6.5x50 night scope :-)
The rabbit population in our paddock has gone bonkers. The neighbouring fields have had some visits in the last couple of months by the lampers on quad bikes. As such the bunnies have decamped to our field. :-( e.g. they busy burrowing down under the fruit trees in our orchard section and nibbling roots and the trees are tilting. One early am a couple of weeks ago I counted a couple of dozen and that wasn't looking very hard!
I recently bought a .22 BSA Lightning XL SE Tactical break-barrel springer and i'm really pleased with it. Similar thing i just bought it for a bit of fun target shooting with the nephews and when i'm confident i can actually hit something i'll be looking for some Rabbits (and that bloody rat i keep seeing). Sounds like their's some very experienced enthusiasts on here though so i certainly couldn't offer better advice than the above.
Bought it with a scope and bag from Pellpax in Norfolk, can't remember exactly how much it was and they're probably not the cheapest shop around but they seemed a decent bunch and have a good range to choose from. Was going to drop £500+ on a Weihrauch HW97K fixed barrel but decided it was too much money for the amount of times i'd be using it, and even they said it was probably a bit 'high-end' for someone like me.
For a beginner though (or someone getting back into it) the BSA was recommended as a good rifle for the money by a few people i spoke to. They're not all made in the UK anymore though i heard (although i'm pretty sure they still make the barrels in Birmingham) as they were bought out by Spanish firm Gamo a while back.
The only slight negative (and a classic case of 'try before you buy') is it's a bit short for me it's more of a carbine, so i just fitted a cheapo stock extender and it feels great now and can always remove it when the lads are using it.
Last edited by WillHarris2306; 30th October 2018 at 16:46.
I would go to a good fireams dealer with 10 year old grandson and try some rifles for fit and ease of operation,at least with springers.
It would be a good day out for grandson and grandfather but I fear it could be expensive- 2 rifles being acquired rather than one!
For a youngster,I would personally avoid magazine fed rifles for safety reasons:a novice shooter can focus on safety and safe shooting more easily if there can be only one round in the rifle.
Size and strength come into it too,as several posters have suggested,so my AA TX200 would be out as too heavy etc.
I've never shot one but the HW30s (not without QC issues) is often touted as a youngster's springer rifle.
PCP,I would look at the AA 200 or AA400 (available in superlite form and highly rated by the best shot in my rifle club.
If you do want to shoot rabbits,well,I would go for .22 but ther is no real difference in energy between .22 and .177,the former is a bit heavier and slower than the latter,the .177 offering a flatter trajectory so favoured by those who don't like to estimate range too well - shot placement is key.
The main thing is that granddad and grandson enjoy their shooting.