Reply With QuoteI think the phrase 'Jack of all trades, master of none' describes all weather tyres. You get slightly below average winter Tyre and a slightly below average summer Tyre all rolled into one.
Talking about winter tyres. I remember, ironically enough, coming back from a JLR day at Gaydon a few years back now. I went with some of the sales team and the Sales manager took his RRS company car for the day. He was a massive off road freak and was well in to it and he had stuck a set of different tyres on this Sport for the winter. Coming back along the 419 it started snowing quite heavily and it was pitching rather quickly. Although it was probably less than a few inches of snow it started to create havoc and eventually the traffic was at a standstill on one carriageway. There were cars just sat spinning their wheels going nowhere, lorries doing the same but I specifically remembered a full fat Rangey that was also in trouble. Anyway Andy just kept going with little trouble with braking and steering.
This was the first time I had genuinely seen the huge difference winter tyres made to even a small amount of snow. I still don't have them on any vehicle however if I were a rep doing thousands of miles a year or I lived in certain places in the U.K. they'd go on the end of September and come off in April.
I think the phrase 'Jack of all trades, master of none' describes all weather tyres. You get slightly below average winter Tyre and a slightly below average summer Tyre all rolled into one.
So what happens when a hot tyre spins on ice? it melts the ice surface and releases water which then becomes a lubricant hence the total loss of grip, no? Loose/dry snow, packed/wet snow and ice are completely different, you can get some grip on dry or packed snow due to the coarse tyre thread pattern/sipes, nothing works on sheer/black ice bar studded rubber.Originally Posted by Padders
While softer compounds may help to a degree, mainly AW/Winter tyres work on snow due to the specially designed thread pattern and depth. Same true for wet conditions, they simply better channeling water away hence preventing aquaplaning..
Last edited by VDG; 28th October 2018 at 13:41.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
I could bore you with a real-life example from last year but there would be absolutely no merit in doing so as you have already made up your mind clearly.
Last edited by -Ally-; 28th October 2018 at 21:27.
Das ist fantastisch!
Fas est ab hoste doceri
As ever, it’s not even as simple as that, but you’re right they are a compromise, the same as any tyre in fact. That’s why I switch to tyres that are less compromised for the seasons.
At least with a ‘jack of all trades’ tyre you’ve got a good chance of having a capable tyre on at any point in time for the widest possible range of conditions, which I think is the point.
Interesting chat, as always, and it’s been emotional. Off out for a walk now, in the appropriate footwear of course! :-D
Last edited by Tooks; 28th October 2018 at 13:58.
No need to be sexist.
FWIW, this is a friends car which earlier this year was the only vehicle to get in and out of his road for three consecutive days and which he ascribes to the fact he had winter tyres.
Having now moved to an area that is renowned for getting snow I've sourced a spare set of wheels and to which I'll be fitting winter tyres.
Any recommendations as to which winter tyres to go for will be gratefully received.
R
Last edited by ralphy; 28th October 2018 at 14:08.
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Try oponeo.com - they seem capable supplying most dimensions, and deliver all over Europe, at very competitive prices
Used them for years - top notch !
Cheers, Peter
What the man says, I grew up in Norway, and nothing else suffices - the idea that a 4x4 copes is 100% rubbish, viz. Clarkson in a RR on summer and May in a Jag on winters, the RR gave up almost from start ! Also, driving with different rating/compound tyres on front/rear is a big no no !!FWIW, this is a friends car which earlier this year was the only vehicle to get in and out of his road for three consecutive days and which he ascribes to the fact he had winter tyres.
Having now moved to an area that is renowned for getting snow I've sourced a spare set of wheels and to which I'll be fitting winter tyres.
Any recommendations as to which winter tyres to go for will be gratefully received.
R
Continental Winter Contacts.
Nokian, every time - used to be called Hakkapelita (Finnish) and nothing touched them, this is going back some years, but in Nordic tests they are always up there at the top, now also doing summers and possibly cross climate.
As it happens I am selling a full set on BMW alloys Nokian 18'' (7mm/+) from a 550i MSport & 650i Gran Coupe .... PM for info :-)
Last edited by ingenioren; 28th October 2018 at 14:41.
Good moaning...
This is my hire car in Austria. I have driven in lots of Ski resorts in deep snow and never needed/used chains. Another reason winter tyres work/grip so well is that the sipes/V grooves pick up snow and anyone who has ever rolled a snowball will know nothing grips snow better than snow. I’d never go without winter tyres but all season as an ‘only tyre’ will likely suffice for the U.K. but be compromised everywhere, but still a better all round bet.
Noooo! Just bought a set for my Z4 and a set for my wife’s Mini Cooper S Works; why weren’t these on SC
Love how it's a little Hyundai too rather than a Subaru Impreza!
I posted this before (on last year's winter tyre thread) but will do so again for emphasis. A few years ago there was heavy snow overnight at my workplace. In the morning a colleague in an X5 on summer tyres got stuck in the car park. My evoque, on Pirelli scorpion Verdes, a cross climate, M&S rated, serenely breezed out of the same car park with zero problems.
Make of that what you will.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
If any tyre was 'dangerous' in the wet then would it be sold? Is it perhaps your driving?
Mind not made up but dangerous? I suspect the manufacturers and uk regs would then be concerned about its sale?
In snow, well i think that then you have a case. But to go out in snow is then not a good decision.
Nokian's are good.
Some of us have to. Perhaps the climate in your part of France doesnt justify going out but some of us still do stuff when the weather is bad you lazy bell. End.
Wow, an ignorant person. Well done with your stupid comment that means nothing.
Last year I drove past a stuck X5 in my wife’s fwd automatic Honda Civic Tourer; winter tyres make all the difference.
fetchez la vache.
I had some sort of all-weather tyres on my Forester and they were diabolical on corners even on a lovely dry summer day, with extra special understeer on wet roundabouts at very low speeds. They were, however, superb in the snow and with the aid of a front bias to the AWD and an LSD I went off into the countryside and drifted my way round every (good visibility) corner I could find when it snowed at the start of this year. I now have a proper set of performance tyres (although I can't remember which, I think Michelin) and the car handles significantly better in the dry and wet, I'm looking forward to seeing how it handles in the winter, especially in the snow. I doubt I'd touch a set of all-weather tyres again.
"A man of little significance"
What? Ok, another one to the ignore list
Fresh off the press:
I think I'm going for these, just need to check they're available in the size combination I need.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
After reading an old Evo article where they were able to reduce their lap times on a snow covered track by 20 seconds, I took interest in winter vs summer tyres, but I've never actually bothered as winter isn't that extreme in the South East.
There’s a couple of tyre sellers on eBay that are included in the latest 15% discount code PREP15 if anyone’s thinking of taking the plunge.
Don't know if they deal with retail punters but I use Nordic Tyres for Nokians.
They do. ;-)
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Very true.
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I know it is probably pointless but if you are actually interested search either the AO48 and R888 tyres. Both sold in the UK, both fully legal and one even OEM fitted but both described by many users as dangerous in the wet.
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Removed...
Last edited by snowman; 30th October 2018 at 00:59.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Winter tyres are far superior when the temperature is around freezing. Many try to say there is no need for "snow tyres" in most of the UK but the reality is most of us that commute do so in the winter at times of the day when the temperature is low enough to see real benefits.
I guess those that have never owned a set and are convinced they are driving gods will never be convinced. But if anyone drove the same car back to back at say 0 degrees and with a damp road surface (so common winter conditions) then you can't help but notice how steering and braking are materially improved. It's not just the tread, you could literally tell the difference with your eyes closed if you felt the compound of each and could easily mean the difference between having an accident or staying safe if there are any traces of ice on the road.
Real or not?
Don't bother. Just learn to drive to the road conditions.
o
Why is it that when some-one voices an opinion that differs from others that you think it is pointless? I post out of interest so yes will look but i do keep an open mind. I may or may not change my mind after reading but will not tell you it is pointless. Come on people try to be a bit open minded yourselves.
Ok, i looked at the tyres you listed. Really? Both are competition / track day tyres and are sold as such. The fact they are road legal is to enable drivers to attend their venue.
It does nothing to help your point.
I do not disagree that winter tyres are good for crappy conditions but do re state that road legal tyres are not dangerous. It is the drivers ability that is most relevant and any one that buys competition tyres and uses them in the winter on snow and ice is a complete idiot. So these tyres...dangerous, no. The idiot that uses them inapropriatly is dangerous.
Probably for real, 4WD and fresh snow is a grippy combination.
I’d like to have seen it go down the hill too though.
I’ve had AWD Audi’s on standard tyres in the snow, and traction is excellent, but braking is still poor. For me, it’s the braking ability of winters/good all seasons in poor weather that is most important.
Many Evoques come from the factory on AW road tyres, my dads did about 12months ago. Ook you may already be a proponent of AW tyres while arguing against them. Go check what tyre is fitted to yours and report back. The 3 peaks symbol is the give away.
My wife’s Evoque came with all weather tyres as standard. I expect the driver in the the video was also using one of the low traction transmission modes. Going downhill they would probably also have engaged hill descent mode.
I’m under no illusions that the car is ready for alpine conditions, but I am pleasantly surprised how well it copes with slushy/icy roads.
After driving in the Vosges mountains in the winter in a Voyager years ago, we always carry snowchains just in case. Twice they have been a godsend in the UK dealing with sudden snowfalls.
Last edited by alfat33; 30th October 2018 at 09:23.
We live in the Peaks in Derbyshire, OH commutes to Sheffield 'over the top' and drives a soft FWD with MCC's all year round. Short of getting beached on a drift nothing stops it.
Unfortunately, despite some of the driving heros posting, you'd be going nowhere on a conventional 'summer tyre', FWD or otherwise.
All weather tyres are a great choice if you fancy a reliable set of tyres and can't be bothered with switching out wheels. Like us.
Quite how I managed five winters in the Hampshire countryside on Yokohama Paradas is anyone's guess - magnificent in the dry and while completely predictable in the wet, hopeless at gripping anything. Which was kind of the point in a light and lithe sports car. And yet I never hit anything or got stuck. And my MGB GTs I ran as daily drivers when I used to commute to London, and my three 924Ss, never stuck, never crashed, never inconvenienced. You just have to know what your grip levels are.
The cold and wet is when MX-5s come alive, and if it snows I have a set of four Snow Socks to fit. The only marginally good thing I found with the all weather tyres on my Forester was they made cornering a lot more interesting, if only because there was just no grip, and that was in the dry in summer, in the wet they were dreadful. Incredibly dangerous.
"A man of little significance"
Maybe you were lucky?
As ever with driving, you don’t need to be worried about your own, it’s everybody else’s...
Just last winter, on a frosty morning doing the last few country B road miles to the airbase where I work, there’s a 90 degree left hander. I started braking and was met with a bit of ABS action which even on my CCs was unusual. I got around the corner ok though, but checking my mirror I saw the car that had been following me at the same speed sail straight on and through the hedge.
I turned around and went to assist, and the guy was fine as it was slow speed and there are no trees in the hedge. When I stopped and got out, I nearly went arse over on the road as it was so slippery. It’s anecdotal, yes, but no more so that people saying I’ve never crashed or been stuck so I don’t need them.
Again, I don’t really see why people are so against different tyres for this time of year. Do people try and use one pair of shoes all year around?
I’d be interested in what AW tyres you had that were so poor in the dry corners? That’s one of the reasons I like the MCCs, as they’re good in the dry as well, unlike the Dunlop Winter Respinse I used to use.
Last edited by Tooks; 30th October 2018 at 10:56.
My old MX5 had a variable 200-240hp. I ran it with the the minimum boost possible in winter. It had Goodyear GSD3 summer tyres and was a death trap in snow. I span it while tip toeing during a commute more than once at circa 10mph. My first one came on the original Dunlop D89 tyres it would let go at the rear with a snap in just cold damp and that one only had 128hp, nasty hateful tyres. I have done big power RWD on unsuitable tyres through winters and am happy to move on.
Last edited by Padders; 30th October 2018 at 11:01.
Funny you should say that, I've just had a quote for 240bhp (well, 180bhp as standard and a 'sport' switch to take it to 240) and that should all be done in time for winter.
"A man of little significance"
I would imagine I must have been lucky, it can't have anything to do with driving correctly for the conditions. I can't remember the tyres, they were proper brand ones.
I'm not averse to people putting on different tyres, I'm averse to being told I should or the implication that I'm wrong for not doing it. That example you give is nothing to do with tyre selection, you were both driving too fast for the conditions. Your ABS and winter tyres likely prevented you from having the accident but you were still going too fast.
"A man of little significance"
Were you there?!
It was an example of when the right tyre probably meant the difference between an accident or not. I got a slight flash from my ABS light, it’s not like it was on for 100m or I was driving inappropriately for the changeable conditions. Perhaps I didn’t explain the scenario very well.
And, I’ve not seen anybody forcing you to put winter or all season tyres on your car, or telling you you’re wrong for not doing so?
It’s just people sharing their experiences of driving isn’t it?
As said, you might be 100% switched on and a skilled driver, but I’ve landed beside enough serious accidents to know it’s not always about how you’re driving, and you’re very much at the mercy of others driving and behaviours too.
I know some men are hyper sensitive to any criticisms in the driving department, but I’m happy to admit I’ve been making mistakes and learning from them for the last 32 years, and no doubt will carry on doing so.
Were your AW tyres really that dreadful in the summer/wet, or were you driving inappropriately for the conditions/tyres? ;-)
If you get the chance/inclination, you should try the MCCs, they are a revelation compared to what has gone before. Tyres move on all the time.
Last edited by Tooks; 30th October 2018 at 12:10.
A 4x4 gives you more traction, not grip, two entirely different things.
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