Rolex is at the fore front for bubble prices but Speedmasters are also creating their own market whether it’s vintage or LE’s, also look at some of the asking prices for Seiko MM300’s, not that long ago £900 would get a nice MM300, full set watches now are well north of £900..
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If you buy a Rolex or Speedy for the long term then price fluctuations does not matter. The only people who will squawk are those who bought with the intention of selling on in the short term and they do so at their own risk. They gloat when they sell at a profit, so they can suffer when they sell at a loss and if you cannot afford to sell at a loss, stay well away.
Originally Posted by Mick P
I think we have had multiple threads in the past with "can anyone afford a Rolex". I think if future value is the primary concern (as in many posts) then the true answer in many cases is no you can't.
Last edited by kultschar; 4th November 2018 at 12:36.
Very true words from both Mickp and Kultschar. If you cannot afford to lose money then do not play the watch market. Quite a lot of people getting burned on the Omega Ultraman and Pulsometer release who were in it for a good profit and now finding no buyers, just two examples.
I'm reminded of these lyrics...
Accept certain inalienable truths
prices will rise, politicians will philander,
you too will get old and when you do you'll fantasize that when you were young,
prices were reasonable, politicians were noble
and children respected their elders.....
If you're buying Rolex subs and vintage Speedies to enjoy then chances are you'll enjoy a relatively cheap hobby, in ownership cost terms, and probably do better than having your money in the bank. I can't think of any vintage watches I've regretted buying as I've enjoyed them all. I have regretted not buying a few others over the years though.
Great lyrics those. Always love listening to that baz luhrman song when it comes on.
Never related it to watches before, but wise words that can apply to many things in life.
Ps wear sunscreen!
I thought ultraman was selling for a nice profit still?
Me too. Speedy Tuesday seems to have taken a gentle upturn too?
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Lots of Utramans (Ultramen) for sale - with a very broad price spectrum - which tells me that they are now proving difficult to shift...as people undercut each other. Original Speedy Tuesday, which I have and have kept an eye on seems pretty stable at the mo around the 6.5K
If it is a bubble and it bursts, maybe then I’ll be able to get a 5711!
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3 years ago you would have paid 14k for one.
There will be a day coming when Rolex work out that alienating potential customers with their greedy pricing and absurdly controlling restrictive practices is not such a good idea after all!
Losing customers is generally not a temporary thing, once a customer is gone and ‘gets used to being gone’ then it is quite easy for those customers not to bother coming back.
For me, Rolex can up the price of the basic DJ to £30,000, their greedy and stupid pricing is no odds to me as I have stopped caring about Rolex and I doubt that I am the only one so minded!
Last edited by KavKav; 6th November 2018 at 20:28.
KavKav
You need to take a beginners course on marketing and sales.
Companies who price greedy as you put it are effectively looking after their existing customers by protecting residuals and that increases customer loyalty.
You may have stopped caring about Rolex but there are plenty of newcomers who will replace you.
The part in bold is the key. Rolex havent done anything, they make the same amount of watches as they did 3 years ago, same marketing... It's the demand that has increased.
To be fair, we don't know the figures but what we do know is that since demand has exceeded supply, the values have increased which is good for current owners. It increases customer loyalty and enhances the brand which is all important.
I dare say Rolex could increase volumes but so far they have resisted the urge to do so.
Was offered one in 2015 for 16k but couldn’t afford it at the time. Been after one since 2016 and no luck
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Another key point is a massive cultural shift in the spending patterns of 18-30 year olds. Previously expensive watches used to be largely limited to middle aged men. However as the young adults of today are more interested in looking good and flashing their latest purchase on instagram, there’s a massive growing market in this age bracket for Rolex’s in particular as the most recognised high end brand.
So basically don’t blame Rolex, blame social media....
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If Rolex can't supply their global demand, reduce the number of ADs to become more exclusive hence by default restricting supply then the bubble may not burst very soon and the customer/AD relationships will only become more important in the future......
Or the customer could just walk away/buy something else (If the customer has any sense that is)
You need to take a beginners course on marketing and sales.
Lol, I suspect not! I took early retirement in 2002 at the age of 51 after a very successful, very profitable, and very enjoyable career in international sales and marketing management. Mebbe I really did know nothing at all!
Good luck to the Rolex newcomers!
So if you were head of sales and marketing in Rolex, what would you do different to what they are currently doing and why ?You need to take a beginners course on marketing and sales.
Lol, I suspect not! I took early retirement in 2002 at the age of 51 after a very successful, very profitable, and very enjoyable career in international sales and marketing management. Mebbe I really did know nothing at all!
Good luck to the Rolex newcomers!
I am not head of sales and marketing at Rolex (I am pleased to say) and am therefore not qualified or in any way inclined to attempt to meaningfully answer such a wide-ranging question, irrespective of cross-product standard sales and marketing principles.
However, my point as a ex-Rolex customer is that their watches are now grotesquely overpriced and do not demonstrate value in my opinion, an opinion which I am fully entitled to have. If Rolex charged £30,000 for a SS Daytona, the only people who would be pleased are Rolex, the existing Daytona owners, and those with more money than brain cells. Add in the petty AD restrictions on which parts of the retail package they condescendingly allow you to leave the shop with after YOU have purchased and there you have a recipe for losing customers both actual and potential. There will always be Rolex customers at any price, the brand is successful and deservedly so, but whilst I can afford a new Rolex, no way in hell will I buy at a price I consider highly inflated. I am quite happy with my minty 1966 DJ which was purchased at a reasonable price and the fact that it has lasted this long gives me a great value perception for THAT purchase, a perception that does not apply at current pricing levels.
The simple reality is that Rolex is not overpriced. Watches go straight from the AD at RRP to either a private buyer or a grey dealer, both of whom, can readily sell it on and will make a greater profit on it than Rolex themselves.
To give an example, the latest SS Skydwellers retails at around £9k +. This is a solidly built watch that tells you the time on the second, minute, hour, day and month. It also has a GMT function and only needs re adjusting on the last day of February.
That is approaching PP standard where the average price is around £33k.
Since Rolex cut back on volumes, their desirability and prices have risen and Rolex have succeeded in enhancing an already successful brand image.
I would be delighted with that if I was a shareholder in Rolex.
We will have to disagree on the subject of price. However, I do actually have the greatest respect for the Rolex company and brand and if it were possible to buy shares in Rolex, I would! Sadly that is not possible as the company is wholly owned by the Wilsdorf foundation and (for a company with a turnover of several billion annually with no shareholders to answer to), the amount they give to charity every year is colossal! With a 1% annual staff turnover, the people who work there must be pretty happy too!
Which is really nothing more than marketing. Are they better than Blancpain, Breguet, VC for example all of whose watches you can find better priced than many Rolex.
Steel sports Rolex are now going north of a fifty fathoms and an older model VC overseas can be had for cheaper than many Rolex.
Rolex can restrict manipulate the market all they like but when I can find a type XX no problem and see a Daytona pushing Patek money only a fool would opt for the Daytona.
I too love my Rolex watches but there is not a chance in hell I would be paying over the odds for one, not when there are plenty of much nicer options out there.
Marketing is essential to any business and if it generates sales which increases profits and job security for its employees, then good on it.
Rolex is mainly successful because of its good looks combined with rock solid engineering and that is why it is a successful brand.
It also looks after its customers by protecting residuals, so we have the perfect business, selling an excellent product to happy and discerning customers.
What's not to like.
What goes up always comes down. The basics of physics (and watch collecting).
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Let me know please when rolex subs come back down to 1950s launch price of $150 as prophesied by Newton’s law of watch collecting
The irony here is that you're the one duped by marketing from VC and Breguet into thinking theyre something special and "better" than Rolex.
Haha yes now that would be good, i could afford two in that case!
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