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Thread: Smart Heating - Hive vs Nest vs ?

  1. #1

    Smart Heating - Hive vs Nest vs ?

    Anyone moved from one to the other?

    We've had Hive for several years (1st gen), and it's performed very well! The hub has dropped out at inconvenient times which a turn off/turn on resolves but on the whole we don't have many complaints at all.

    With a house move on the horizon, we have the opportunity to consider new systems, such as Nest, to control heating & manage schedules.

    Has anyone moved from one to the other and regretted it, or conversely, pleased they changed?

    Any views appreciated.

  2. #2
    Master
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    I got the nest gen 3 and totally love it and that orange face when it heats :)

  3. #3
    Master raringtogo's Avatar
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    I have Nest thermostat and cameras and smoke alarms and they all inyegrate very well and are controlled via one app.

    I did try for smart rad valves for individual control but Nest dont do them whereas Hive do ALL of the above.

    Horses for courses I guess but I would now probably look at Hive a bit more prior to making a buying decision.

    Regards,

    Si

    That's All Folks

  4. #4
    Craftsman T1ckT0ck's Avatar
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    Nest Hello doorbell is superb if perhaps a bit tricky to install.


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  5. #5
    Someone needs to explain hive and nest to me, I don’t understand the need for these products, what do they actually do that my thermostat and programmer don’t

  6. #6
    Master subseastu's Avatar
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    I'm the same. I have TRV's on nearly all my radiators and a remote thermostat. The rads are set to the desired temp as is the thermostat. I don't get / understand what hive / nest bring to the party.
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Someone needs to explain hive and nest to me, I don’t understand the need for these products, what do they actually do that my thermostat and programmer don’t
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by subseastu View Post
    I'm the same. I have TRV's on nearly all my radiators and a remote thermostat. The rads are set to the desired temp as is the thermostat. I don't get / understand what hive / nest bring to the party.

    Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk
    Maybe it’s technology for technologies sake, adjusting temperature depending on outside temps and human traffic, X10 has been around for years but most people think it’s to geeky. It’s IOT going mad, what’s worse is the prime cost of these devices are a couple of pounds yet they sell them for hundreds, it seems to be marketing gone mad.

  8. #8
    Craftsman
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    one is owned by the 3rd biggest tech company in the world known for spending billions on R&D and research, the other is owned by British Gas...

  9. #9
    Master
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    Let me know if you go for the Hive as I can sort out an engineers discount which includes fitting.

  10. #10
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    Had the V2 Hive for a few years and it's work faultlessly, great . Got lights also on Hive.

    See someone mention doorbell, we have a Ring installed also with 3 Ring light cameras. Also work great

  11. #11
    Had Hive, moved to a bigger house and installed Honeywell evo. It’s a much better system gives you zone control room by room.

  12. #12
    Craftsman T1ckT0ck's Avatar
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    Nest...

    Learns your heating requirements without needing to program a schedule if you don’t want to

    Learn la how long your house takes to heat and cool based on the property and outside temp.

    Smooths out on and off, no more too cold too hot periods where you find yourself fiddle with thermostat. This is really clever, my house feel much more consistent heat wise than it used to.

    Automatically knows when you leave and return, changing from eco and normal without you knowing. Eco lets the temp drop lower and cancels and hot water requirements.

    Full control via app.

    Nest protects (fire alarms) turn off booiler if triggered. They also self test using inbuilt mic and speakers. Pathway lights up as you walk around at nighyin dark house. Wired or battery versions.

    Internal camera checks on our pets and stores in the cloud so we can track timeline.

    Doorbell has face recognition. Notifications to phone when a person, sound or doorbell button pressed. Talk / view tperson in real time or send a default voice message. Doorbell has quite a loud speaker. Timeline video recording and playback.

    Lots more too and all intergrated products but probably not for the big brother fearful.




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  13. #13
    Master
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    We’ve had tado for just over a year now with smart Trvs fitted on all the radiators it’s effectively zoned the house, the trv batteries are just now starting to go so just over 12 months. The geolocation works very well turning the heating on/off as we drive away or return, not the cheapest option but much better than the hive system it replaced which was effectively a time clock you could set from your phone.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    Had Hive, moved to a bigger house and installed Honeywell evo. It’s a much better system gives you zone control room by room.
    I did look at that, and Honeywell is a solid company, been around for years, etc. The only aspect that puts me off is the installation of the TRV for each radiator, added labour and hassle factor!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSlow View Post
    Let me know if you go for the Hive as I can sort out an engineers discount which includes fitting.
    Very generous of you - thank you for the offer. If its a significant discount it may well sway us! Will reach out once we decide

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cman View Post
    I did look at that, and Honeywell is a solid company, been around for years, etc. The only aspect that puts me off is the installation of the TRV for each radiator, added labour and hassle factor!
    It’s literally a 10 second job. The top of your existing TRV screws off and the Honeywell sits on top of the exiting bottom half of the TRV. It’s not a job for a plumber and doesn’t require any tools or changing the actual TRV completely which would be a faff.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    It’s literally a 10 second job. The top of your existing TRV screws off and the Honeywell sits on top of the exiting bottom half of the TRV. It’s not a job for a plumber and doesn’t require any tools or changing the actual TRV completely which would be a faff.
    ..aha - thank you for that! I was under the impression the pipework into the rad would need to be taken off, to plug the 'smart TRV' in. Thanks for clarifying. I assume the fitment of the TRV, based on your reply, is compatible with most styles/fittings (not knowing how existing TRVs differ).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by cman View Post
    ..aha - thank you for that! I was under the impression the pipework into the rad would need to be taken off, to plug the 'smart TRV' in. Thanks for clarifying. I assume the fitment of the TRV, based on your reply, is compatible with most styles/fittings (not knowing how existing TRVs differ).
    I thought the same before I bought the system. The fitment is compatible with most TRVs they seem to be a standard size.

    It’s a really good system and makes sense if you have rooms you don’t use , or use at different times of the day or Peter different temps etc

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    I thought the same before I bought the system. The fitment is compatible with most TRVs they seem to be a standard size.

    It’s a really good system and makes sense if you have rooms you don’t use , or use at different times of the day or Peter different temps etc
    Thanks again. Really helpful. Presumably you still required a professional installer for wiring into the boiler system?

  20. #20
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cman View Post
    Thanks again. Really helpful. Presumably you still required a professional installer for wiring into the boiler system?
    Depends on your diy skills really I installed ours including 10 trvs in about an hour

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicans View Post
    one is owned by the 3rd biggest tech company in the world known for spending billions on R&D and research, the other is owned by British Gas...
    Are alphabet a tech company or an investment company,

    There will be an Alexa product on the market soon.

  22. #22
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    Evohome if you want control by room or Lyric T6 on a budget…

    Hive, Tado and Nest are all fine too…

    You can by Hive from from Costco with installation thrown in…

    Disclaimer…. I launched Hive and work for Honeywell :-)

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Evohome if you want control by room or Lyric T6 on a budget…

    Hive, Tado and Nest are all fine too…

    You can by Hive from from Costco with installation thrown in…

    Disclaimer…. I launched Hive and work for Honeywell :-)
    Interesting contribution - you're probably best placed to answer then...!

    Are there any significant differences between Hive and Nest? Or as an existing Hive customer would I be better of staying with them, in a new property?

    Secondly, how would you rank Honeywell vs Hive? Kit seems far more expensive, and other than zoned heating, are there any other benefits?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by cman View Post
    Thanks again. Really helpful. Presumably you still required a professional installer for wiring into the boiler system?
    That I did because I didn't feel confident enough to do it, but like bootneck my mates have installed their own with no grief.

    Set up is a doddle.

  25. #25
    I'd say I'm a bit of a gadget freak but still can't bring myself to replace my wireless stat with one of these smart stats. Just don't know what it is but I just can't see a reason apart from turning on and off remotely. Probably if we left our heating on all day maybe the 'learning' side of them would be a good idea. We don't though. Heating comes on in the morning for a little then in the evening.

  26. #26
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Someone needs to explain hive and nest to me, I don’t understand the need for these products, what do they actually do that my thermostat and programmer don’t
    For the sake of £130 or so we have a Nest that we can adjust as we go along via an app, that learns when and how we control the temperature, takes seconds to adjust, can be turned on or off when we go away and doesn't involve pissing around changing the programming on the boiler, which is a pain to get to. It also means we don't have a house like an oven overnight when we forget to turn down the thermostat when we go to bed. I've no doubt we'll save money and even after only a few days we can feel the difference.
    "A man of little significance"

  27. #27
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    For the sake of £130 or so we have a Nest that we can adjust as we go along via an app, that learns when and how we control the temperature, takes seconds to adjust, can be turned on or off when we go away and doesn't involve pissing around changing the programming on the boiler, which is a pain to get to. It also means we don't have a house like an oven overnight when we forget to turn down the thermostat when we go to bed. I've no doubt we'll save money and even after only a few days we can feel the difference.
    This - and it you can review usage etc.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    For the sake of £130 or so we have a Nest that we can adjust as we go along via an app, that learns when and how we control the temperature, takes seconds to adjust, can be turned on or off when we go away and doesn't involve pissing around changing the programming on the boiler, which is a pain to get to. It also means we don't have a house like an oven overnight when we forget to turn down the thermostat when we go to bed. I've no doubt we'll save money and even after only a few days we can feel the difference.
    With even a basic programmer you shouldn't have to turn down the thermostat when you go to bed.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    With even a basic programmer you shouldn't have to turn down the thermostat when you go to bed.
    Define basic.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  30. #30
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Define basic.
    Presumably one in which you pre-set programmes for what temperature you want and when so it knows what temperature you are happy with overnight.

    Anything more basic is a thermostat and not a programmer.

  31. #31
    Master subseastu's Avatar
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    This. I still can't see the point of hive or nest. A programmer with 4 or 5 time settings with TRV's fitted surely does everything these new systems do. I've not touched our thermostat once programmed in years. It really does seem technology solving a problem that doesn't really doesn't exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    With even a basic programmer you shouldn't have to turn down the thermostat when you go to bed.
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  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Define basic.
    Surprised you don’t know.

  33. #33
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Surprised you don’t know.
    Well, if you are referring to an analogue device with trip switches - that is not comparative.

    If you are thinking of a digital timer with remote thermostat, that will not do the same and is not comparative.

    If you throw TRV's into the equation, they are equally not comparative.

    Even wired TRV's linked to the boiler are second best IMHO.

    The smart systems will vary the temperature over time, we prefer the heating to reduce overnight.

    Each to their own.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  34. #34
    I can't be bothered into going into great detail over the benefits of one when to those who don't need it. Not here to convince those you need one.

    But having a thermostat even with TRVs on rad is not going to be as efficient or as comfortable to use as a Honeywell Evo. Not a chance.

    I have a house that is fairly large and that has been extended heavily. End result some rooms are much, much warmer than others, top 2 bedrooms are in a heavily insulated loft. Middle three are in a house that is all solid brick. Lounge is an extension so is heavily insulated, Hall way is chilly.

    End result means that try to get consistent heat is difficult and the boiler uses a lot more gas than needed , some rooms are warmer than others , some do not get hot enough.

    I have rooms that only get used certain times of the day, eg kids playroom, not used after 6pm, Study used only in evenings during the week. A TRV isn't needed here an actual smart one that can turn the rad off for me than having to go round do it manually is far better.

    Having one thermostat to register heat is useless in a house like mine.

    With a smart system like Evo. At night only the bed rooms that call for heat will get heat, other rooms that are not being used do not. Most modern boilers are modulating meaning less gas is burnt heating these three rooms rather than heating up the entire house .

    Overall unless I actually went round adjusting the TRVs all the time turning them on and off during certain parts of the day they couldn't come close to a smart system like Honeywell Evo or one that uses smart TRVs.

  35. #35
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    The newer Evo system (Evohome wifi) has an app and works with google home and alexa. So you can have both...


    (although I have neither as the heating goes on for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening...).

  36. #36
    Do people really have the heating on at night?

    My central heating system takes about two hours to warn the house up, so how can a divice like this trim the temperature.

  37. #37

    Smart Heating - Hive vs Nest vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Do people really have the heating on at night?

    My central heating system takes about two hours to warn the house up, so how can a divice like this trim the temperature.
    Yep some people do. If it takes two hours to heat up house sounds like your rads are too small, you’re leaking far too much heat.

    You obviously can live with i wouldn’t, hence you’re not the target audience for these devices.

    The “ 1 or 2 hour in the morning and 1 or 2 in the evening “ users are not the target audience. Some poeple prefer a constant temp than letting the house go very cold then waiting for it to heat up.

    A device can help trim the temp from getting so cold that it needs 2 hours to then warm up in your case . Eg it may be more efficient to let your house drop a few degrees over night so it only needs a small boost in the morning rather than two hours at full pelt to heat up .
    Last edited by eagletower; 21st October 2018 at 21:46.

  38. #38
    We have underfloor hearing which works most energy efficiently when left on constantly during the winter (I still haven’t turned our heating on yet apart from testing yesterday in case it suddenly gets cold!) - I set the room thermostats to a constant 19c and that’s it. Then we have 2 floors with radiators, each with a TRV and a remote thermostat on the top floor landing also set to 19c. Works fine and I haven’t had to touch the settings in the last 2 years. I wanted an excuse to get nest or hive as I love a gadget - but as there’s nearly always someone at home, and with a large house the concept of ‘tweaking’ the heating by an hour here or there with an app seems utterly pointless. Like ‘smart bulbs’ and all manner of superfluous costly gadgetry with no obvious benefit, I’ll give it a miss until it is built into everything at no extra cost. You’d probably be best saving the money and spending it on loft insulation and draft excluders - and a pair of fluffy slippers!


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  39. #39
    There are varying degrees of smart thermostats .

    Single zone smart thermostats and multi zone .

    Multi zone is a genuine “smart system” .

    To me a single zone smart thermostat is like having one light switch for all the lights in your house .

  40. #40
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    The “ 1 or 2 hour in the morning and 1 or 2 in the evening “ users are not the target audience. Some poeple prefer a constant temp than letting the house go very cold then waiting for it to heat up.

    .
    Yeah - I quite like the look of that Evo home WiFi system but my total energy bill (gas and electricity) is about £700 so I would have to think about the TCO and payback period.

  41. #41
    Master
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    All I want is a basic programmer that is adjustable via an app so that if conditions change while I am away in Winter, I can choose to tweak the settings remotely. While I am here I'm frankly happy running it as a manual system, as it's warm air and heats the house up super quick.

    It seems hard to find something that gets consistently good reviews in that category.

  42. #42
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    With even a basic programmer you shouldn't have to turn down the thermostat when you go to bed.
    I'm not sure what I had before but my wife wants to live in an oven and I want to sleep in a cold room and get up to a warm house. With the old system she'd turn the knob on the thermostat so the house became nice and toasty and the timer on the boiler couldn't, it seems, overrule the thermostat so we'd frequently go to bed and then I'd realise the heating was on full blast. I'm pretty sure what we have now is going to be much better than what we had before but if I'm wrong and I've wasted £130 then it doesn't really bother me, it looks pretty and the temperature of the house is much more controllable.
    "A man of little significance"

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Yeah - I quite like the look of that Evo home WiFi system but my total energy bill (gas and electricity) is about £700 so I would have to think about the TCO and payback period.
    £700 for both ! I’m envious I’m about 3.5 time your annual bill ! It was more before I had the Evo installed .

  44. #44
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    To put some context on my earlier comments.

    Effectively rebuilt the house which now has:-

    Solid tiled floors downstairs throughout - underfloor heating split into 3 zones.

    AGA in the kitchen - left on 24/7

    Upstairs - radiators in bedrooms, roof replaced which includes 125mm of Kingspan insulation throughout.

    Layout, new insulation, requirement for certain rooms to be cool at night (bedrooms) and knowing what is heating where and when mens we need something more capable that the usual stuff Add the fact the the wife works shifts and I am often away makes for a level of control above TRV's and a timer.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  45. #45
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    £700 for both ! I’m envious I’m about 3.5 time your annual bill ! It was more before I had the Evo installed .
    There are only two of us and we are both out at work every day so that makes a different - plus because we live close to work we only need it on for an hour in the morning.

    Hum... Double-checking my ovo account because they set the direct debit so high - there is actually £600 in there - maybe I will have the Evo after all...

  46. #46
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    Ive had all three plus the Netatmo which is great value.. but im using the Tado which is capable of flow control over the databus on Worcester and Vailant boilers which makes a huge dufference to temperature curve and comfort, far more stable.. uses geolocation and can have multiple zones .. it is by far the best heating control and really outshines Hive and Nest... I work in the industry and I get a discount on Hive!!! And i uninstalled it !! And Nest


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  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantastic View Post
    Ive had all three plus the Netatmo which is great value.. but im using the Tado which is capable of flow control over the databus on Worcester and Vailant boilers which makes a huge dufference to temperature curve and comfort, far more stable.. uses geolocation and can have multiple zones .. it is by far the best heating control and really outshines Hive and Nest... I work in the industry and I get a discount on Hive!!! And i uninstalled it !! And Nest


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    Impressive feedback!

    Is it correct to assume you can have a setup with several 'Smart Radiator Thermostats' (the things that attach to radiators) and you do not necessarily require the 'Smart Thermostat' (the square wall mounted thing that displays the temp)? Why would you need the latter?

  48. #48
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    Yes its true.. you can in effect multizone your heating almost like this.. bear in mind the minimum kw of your boiler so as not to have just one radiator calling.. having the main thermostat is used to gain an overall temp if you have a few rooms where having trv on all rads (tado trv) would prove expensive and negate savings.. i would leave normal trv in the main areas apart from your thermostat location.
    Savings can be significant



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  49. #49
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    I have a completely random pattern of work so a learning system couldn’t possibly know. I opted for the only geo fenced option at the time which was Tado.

    The heating/hw effectively on a programmable stat when I’m in and on fallback temp (and hw off) when I’m away or out.

  50. #50
    Craftsman
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    Same here .. we work all sorts of hours and both of us are away some weeks.. Tado was easily the best..


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