Reply With QuoteOh, sweet summer child. You can only pick one of these things.Originally Posted by Hewjardon
Arghh, much as this thread title irks me and whiffs of privilege etc etc
I am looking at boats for the first time.
Something between 30-40ft.
Sail, not motor.
Blue water capable.
Big enough for 4-6 people as a live aboard/day charter etc
Not had much experience of cats (beyond coastal Hobie sailing) but am having my eye drawn by the living space and the lack of rocking on anchor. Am obviously doing lots of online reading but know that there is a lot of knowledge on this forum, and a seemingly sizable bunch of sailors.
My question is; am I overlooking something fairly fundamental (other than higher birthing/marina fees) by choosing a cat over a mono? would insurance, repairs, reliability, value for money, ease of sailing, handling on crossings etc be issues, or are they comparatively the same?
Oh, sweet summer child. You can only pick one of these things.
So very true,ultimately your choice, but a 'cat' wouldn't be on my list,
n2
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
For reasons?So very true,
n2
Just charter both at some point and see what you prefer.
And remember the three F rule ... so just rent it anyway unless you plan on living aboard for several months.
Mostly issues with mooring, at busy times marinas can be clogged, a 30 to 40 foot cat has a huge footprint, I'll grant you that a cat will heel less and have more space but wouldn't be for me, for example a few years ago we spent a month on the West Coast of Scotland in a 38ft mono, we simply couldn't have managed many places in a similar cat.
Others will have different opinions.
n2
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Moving in the right direction...
It would be a live aboard for 5 months of the year, then dry stored.
Mostly Mediterranean/warm water sailing but with ability to go much further afield as and when.
Very familiar with the 3 F's rule, hence unmarried.
Probably will charter a cat at some point, but really wanted to know if it was one of those 'snowboarded vs ski' type of arguments (lots of passion and personal preference, very little substance), as this is the nature of the responses I have been able to gather from friends etc....
The 2 best days of boat ownership are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In the Med you lose one of the advantages of the Cat, the facility to beach at low tide
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
+1
My Dad used to say 'Remember the three 'F's '
'If it Flies, Floats or Fu@ks, then rent it'.
Rent both types first. Then ask yourself: ”why are 90% of all boats monohulls? Surely there’s a reason for that!”
Even boats used by people travelling around the globe are mostly monohulls! (Personally, I would choose a Colin Archer-type)
Having experienced both I'd list the main advantages of multihulls over monohulls as level sailing, superior performance, 'beachability' and crew space.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I think I will rent both ahead of a purchase anyway, but ahead of that I am still no clearer why 90% might be mono's.
I have heard cats called 'caravans', delivered with Clarkson like derision, but no explanation why they may be less suitable. Equally I have heard they are a better bet for offering live-aboard to divers, spearos etc (which I would like the option to do) due to stability etc. I have heard that mono's punch through waves and swell better than a cat, but I have no experience to gauge how true this is. Or if there are other factors that would/could influence the decision.
At some point in the next 2 or 3 years we will be looking at circumnavigation, or at least most of the way.
Colin Archer designs aren't really my cup of Darjeeling, having had spent some time on one in Norway. Would probably favour a Beneteau if we did opt for a mono.
I'm just trying to place one over the other, based on something other than personal preference........
Living on a boat that long needs a lot of thinking ahead. Apart from perfect sailing characteristics, it’s good to ask around how one can spend 5 months within a confined space. Again, around-the-world sailors are the people to talk to, including the make and material. Two of my fellow sailing instructors have done a world trip with three kids. Ultimately, they opted for an aluminium one-off monohull
The main problem of a cat is that if a freak wave or a gust of wind catch you off guard they are not self rightening.
Furthermore they are not always the most comfortable at sea under route if you sleep in a forward cabin as it hits the waves repeatedly instead of slicing through it. The same is true of light displacement monohulls.
Regarding Jeanneau or Beneteau, they are usually decent value but be careful: the more comfortable when anchored, the less comfortable/practical at sea.
I suggest you look at Alubat’s offer too.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I am an ex owner of a pioneer 9, a beautiful van de stadt design mono, I have sailed for years and would prefer a mono over a cat, however I have delivered a few around the uk and they have been a good sail.
you REALLY need to try each for a while before making a decision.
mike
Mine in 2004, entering Dover harbour
Etap 28i
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
If you want to sail the thing then don't even think of a cat. They don't head close to wind and going downwind they bobble about like a Tupperware container - the best way to get seasick.
If you want the living space then get a 60 footer or a caravan/mobile home. If you want a sensible sized boat for sailing then get a monohull - IMO.
PS I would agree with the proposal to charter both, for a period. Or maybe the manufacturer/broker would let you borrow.... Good luck.
So answer from skipper son. If you want to go to the med and enjoy and chill with lots of room cat all day long.
However if you want to really sail and looking at longer distance and safety in larger seas then mono hull. In boat terms monos are cheaper. Cats are twice the complexity eg two engines.
Insurance not significant
Reliability more base on what you buy not mono or cat
Ease of sailing Cat easier to sail , cat will struggle to sail upwind
Repairs more based on vessel you buy.
Mooring actually easier to park due to twin engines
Summary where are based where do you want to go
Lastly cats are not always stable on anchor
Pm me if you want more info for next 24 hrs then Skipper son leaves for Isle of Wight!
So suggests you look at Sunsail swap charter , where you buy a boat then you can charter a similar boat anywhere in the world.
Last edited by higham5; 19th October 2018 at 20:15.
Thank you, and to the skipper too, thats the the kind of answer I was chasing. Sunsail is something I am looking at too.
Very helpful
Sent from my PLK-L01 using TZ-UK mobile app
All sailboats, be they mono-hull or twin-hull - are exactly the same as aeroplanes.......................
.
.
.
.
The more engines they have - the better!
Maybe not always - https://www.flyingmag.com/wrong-worr...versus-singles...are exactly the same as aeroplanes. The more engines they have - the better!
Firstly, definitely go and charter first. The Ionian around western Greece has a lot to offer in terms of islands and sheltered seas.
Not sure if you have any but get some qualifications if not, it's very easy and not too expensive. A lot of the charter Companies offer courses as part of the holiday.
It important to know that a cat is usually twice the beam of a mono and the Med marina's get very busy in the high season. They moor med style which is stern to and if you can find a berth you will probably end up on the outskirts of the marina where there is more room but less shelter. It's a myth that cats are stable at anchor, if there is any kind of chop you will feel it. The big plus is there is obviously more room on board, 40ft is a good size.
I'm sure you will do but do your homework on how much it costs to keep a boat - anywhere. Mooring, insurances, annual lifts etc and be aware that places like Croatia will sting you for taxes if you cruise their waters. There are also a lot of scammers and bad brokers around so due diligence when buying is very important.
This forum:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/index.php can be a good source for info, plenty of people on there to tap into.
Also get down to the boat show in Southampton next September, they have a great selection of boats to jump on board and have look around.
It's a great thing to do , good luck with it.
Mono, easier in every respect and better cabin, always.
Go Cat if you like a challenge in every respect.
In what way is the cabin always better on a mono?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Thank you, very useful.
I'll be building on my Dayskipper in the Spring, and beyond, and will certainly browse the forum.
Interesting point re Croatian waters, will certainly dig into that. As if this whole exercise isn't expensive enough....
It will be very worth while to join the ybw forum, there are a lot of guys on there that have motor and sail boats in the med and have been where you are now.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...-taxes-Rip-off
This thread relates to motor boats and a lot of the tax is based on HP but useful info.
Bring Out Another Thousand!! Applies to sail boats too.
- - - Updated - - -
I always find cat cabins too small. To get a like for like the cat is then too big.In what way is the cabin always better on a mono?
R
Mind you, the two really are so different the only way to decide is to use each, quite often it comes down just to personal preference. Size is also a factor.
Last edited by Carl.1; 20th October 2018 at 11:48.
Something like this...
Taken a few secs ago in Roses, Catalonia
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Mmmm, maybe something a little less conspicuous....Something like this...
Taken a few secs ago in Roses, Catalonia
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
On the other hand, nice to see you have the same weather we are enjoying down in Andalusia
Sent from my PLK-L01 using TZ-UK mobile app
The weather is fine. Wind is shifty and a lot of waves (not easy to sail the Europa Cup Laser Regatta). Frankly I am amazed how many boats here in the Marina are un-used and clearly are neglected. Rust everywhere, old lines, discoloured GPR. Sad. On the water: not a single boat (apart from 150 Lasers).
Last edited by thieuster; 20th October 2018 at 15:23.
Flies, floats or fornicates is a slightly more polite version
Caveat, I've been sailing since I was a kid, but I'm not a sailor. I am a diver, and have been on all sorts of liveaboards, from the MY Jambo in Tanzanian waters, to the Deli in Djibouti and the bog-standard Blue-O-Two boats in the Red Sea. The latter were by far the easiest and most comfortable from which to dive.
Just back from a week in a 47' monohull around Hvar, Croatia. There were nine on board, in 4 berths and the converted saloon table. I have no idea how we would have been able to dive off that boat. There was no room for equipment, certainly not for a compressor. Access from the back was not ideal (actually, it would have been downright dangerous) and there was little clear deck space. The boat obviously wasn't designed for diving, but I did see lots of similar-length cats. At 45' they looked a good 20' wide! Perfect platform for diving, I'd say, with easy access down each pontoon but you'd probably need to think very carefully about layout, deck space, access, fresh water, equipment storage, etc. I saw a few spearos out there (I free dive but don't hunt) but they were all diving from motor yachts.
As a rule of thumb, a cat will have the space below equivalent to a monohull 10+ feet longer.
This from a 12m Sunsail 403 for example:
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I have used cats Ralphy but do find them cramped. I think though they are so different it is a personal thing. Hiring and trying are the best options. Most fall into one camp or the other.
And this is where I love cats....diving, with a lift on the back there really is no downside. But they are a different breed to mono hulls for personal use.
This is my idea of boating
Being a tight Yorkshireman I prefer something where the power is free.This is my idea of boating
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Ha, ha, ha. You do have a point, running 2x 440bhp Merc engines is going to cost a few quid, especially at full power, which I would do as much as possible, with that kind of boat is would be rude not to.Being a tight Yorkshireman I prefer something where the power is free.
There are very few things better in this world than sailing a boat about.
Posting Permissions
