Stop Killing Cyclists

[WarrenVrs]

Yes thats annoying - but that is the bi-product of lights, jams etc... councils and govts have a lot to say for traffic design - hasnt changed for years yet the fabric and diversity has and it needs to catch up and adapt. if it works you up too much you shouldn't be behind a wheel.... or handlebars
accept that a gap will open up soon and usually five to ten seconds after you make that dangerously close pass/manouvre

Therein lies the issue.

Asking for consideration and patience, whilst being unwilling to reciprocate.

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[rfrazier]

I'm now 62. I've owned an auto for about 8 years of that time. I've not owned one for 27 years, and haven't driven for 26 years. I suspect that I'll never drive an auto again. I did have some pretty amazing auto trips, however, including one across the USA from the west coast (Washington State) to the east coast (Massachusetts) in a 1963 VW van with all my belongings inside (top speed of 60mph on the flat with no headwind, and the bicycles off the roof rack). Commuting was always Hell on Wheels.

Since the age of 5, I've always had at least one bicycle (at most 4). So, that's about 57 years of bicycle riding. I suspect that I've done more than 300,000 miles on a bicycle, and not a 5th of that driving an auto.

The only crashes I've had are when racing bicycles (unhappy but part of the sport) and, being run off the road twice in the UK (in 27 years). Both of the later cases were boy racers in country lanes.

Working in Oxford, I've seen some pretty atrocious bicycling. A fair amount of pretty bad driving too. I suspect that there are people in cars listening to music, using mobiles, etc., who aren't completely aware of their surroundings. On the whole, however, the rude drivers are outliers. Still, defensive cycling is the only way to go. Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

And I see some hope for Oxford, at least. In the mornings and afternoons the traffic is at a standstill. And the periods when this is so are getting longer. So, no competition on the roads for people with bicyclists. 6-8 minutes to college by bicycle; 30+ minutes by bus. It used to be the case that unmoving traffic would produce lots of nasty fumes. But no more. I've been told that modern non-moving motorized vehicles now have auto cutouts for their engines.[1] And I have noticed fewer fumes in stalled traffic.

So, let's make it a basic right in the UK for everyone over 18 to have an auto. With luck, that way there will be no competition on the roads for bicycles at all.

Best wishes,
Bob

[1] We seldom even get lifts by automobile. But, we went with some friends to a lunch party in the south and I asked what was wrong with their car that caused it to keep cutting out. ;)

[mart broad]

Good to see your still around Bob

But to all roadusers let’s just try to respect each other and have some spatial awareness.

[Captain Morgan]

That only applies at certain junctions, and there's often an accompanying cycle lane which makes the overtaking issue almost none existent.

In Birmingham, they're few and far between. And the same behaviour is exhibited at all junctions, not just those with a left hand turn.

A decent number of cyclists don't seem to want to accept any responsibility for their own safety. Saw one last night, dressed in dark clothes, a tiny led flashing front and back (barely visible amongst street lights, other vehicles in the dark/rain). No helmet.

Can you imagine getting in your car, not bothering with a seatbelt, then driving on a dark and rainy night with headlights off? Ridiculous.

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Personally I think you are giving too little consideration to why cyclists will move to the front at traffic lights, but you are welcome to your view. Perhaps mine is skewed by cycling in London where they are more prevalent.
If you ride in the prime position as advised by the police and Highway Code you face abuse and aggression from divers for not waiting in the near side gutter and taking up a meter or so of road space.

I agree that some cyclists take there personal safety lightly but as unfortunate as that is it’s not the majority in my opinion.

It can also be said that many drivers are poor and see cyclists as an inconvenience at best, that’s if they even see them in the first place. Others seem intent on passing at all costs often seeking to punish them for simply cycling in the first place.
Overtaking with inches to spare meters before a red light in town is a personal favourite along with the inches to spare on a open road with nothing coming in the opposite direction

[adg31]

Never seen a cyclist barge a car out of the way before! How dare a pushbike have the temerity to overtake a queued line of cars to get to the front in the same way that motorbikes and scooters do, shocking.

There's some very interesting thinking going on in this thread, it's not an us and them thing, most cyclists that I know are also drivers so have cars and pay "Road Tax" (vehicle excise duty), I pay for 3 cars, but I don't expect to have 3 times more rights to clog up the road than someone that has only one car.

The difference is that motorcycles or scooters will generally be travelling at the same speed as other motor vehicles and so not slow the flow of traffic.
In contrast a cyclist will be going much slower so by jumping to the front of the queue will ultimately hold everyone else up - whilst gaining little advantage themselves.
This is unless at the lights they miraculously morph from being a road user to a pedestrian and use the footpath - thereby endangering pedestrians - before cutting back into the traffic and once again becoming a road user.
This is basically selfish behaviour and endangers other road users whilst making little difference to overall journey times. So why not just be patient and wait your turn in the queue like everyone else?



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[MrSmith]

“Ever sat behind a cyclist for miles”

No, passed miles and miles of stationary cars and their frustrated drivers on my bike though.

[thegreatdogwood]

Never seen a cyclist barge a car out of the way before! How dare a pushbike have the temerity to overtake a queued line of cars to get to the front in the same way that motorbikes and scooters do, shocking.
.

Hardly the same thing. A motorbike or scooter can keep up with / stay ahead of the general traffic flow, whereas bikes become a rolling roadblock on numerous roads around here where the terrain means they can barely achieve 1/4 of the speed limit and there is no safe place to overtake for many miles.

I guess the people who think it's OK that a cyclist keeps pushing to the front of the queue and holding the same traffic up each time at consecutive lights equally feels it's OK to push in at the front of any queue.

[Xantiagib]

Therein lies the issue.

Asking for consideration and patience, whilst being unwilling to reciprocate.

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those unwilling to reciprocate will be getting the Darwin treatment eventually - it has to be mutual for it to work

Hardly the same thing. A motorbike or scooter can keep up with / stay ahead of the general traffic flow, whereas bikes become a rolling roadblock on numerous roads around here where the terrain means they can barely achieve 1/4 of the speed limit and there is no safe place to overtake for many miles.

I guess the people who think it's OK that a cyclist keeps pushing to the front of the queue and holding the same traffic up each time at consecutive lights equally feels it's OK to push in at the front of any queue.

I leave home on my road bike at the same time my colleage does on his moped (we live opposite eachother) we nearly always arrive at the same time at the office (some 4 miles away)
me usually first as bike parking is easy whereas where to park the moped is getting a more and more challenging thing as everyone seems to have one these days

bikes can easily do about 25-30mph - and then there's the electric assist ones... quite easily as fast as commuting traffic in most cities

[dougair]

those unwilling to reciprocate will be getting the Darwin treatment eventually - it has to be mutual for it to work



I leave home on my road bike at the same time my colleage does on his moped (we live opposite eachother) we nearly always arrive at the same time at the office (some 4 miles away)
me usually first as bike parking is easy whereas where to park the moped is getting a more and more challenging thing as everyone seems to have one these days

bikes can easily do about 25-30mph - and then there's the electric assist ones... quite easily as fast as commuting traffic in most cities

Ab but he can go straight to his desk, you got to go shower or risk stinking the office out 😜

[cbh]

Hardly the same thing. A motorbike or scooter can keep up with / stay ahead of the general traffic flow, whereas bikes become a rolling roadblock on numerous roads around here where the terrain means they can barely achieve 1/4 of the speed limit and there is no safe place to overtake for many miles.

I guess the people who think it's OK that a cyclist keeps pushing to the front of the queue and holding the same traffic up each time at consecutive lights equally feels it's OK to push in at the front of any queue.

So it's ok for you in your car to overtake slower moving traffic, but when you become the slow moving traffic no ones allowed to pass, have I got that correct?

[Xantiagib]

Ab but he can go straight to his desk, you got to go shower or risk stinking the office out 

naah its only 4 miles I hardly break a sweat... (hides 3 cans of Lynx in desk drawer)

[rfrazier]

There is at least one intersection with a light in Oxford which does things in an interesting way. It is an important intersection and busy intersection, just out of the centre (Longwall and Magdalen Bridge). There are bicycle lanes on both sides of the intersection. There is a large area for bicycles right before the light taking up the whole road (in the direction of travel). The bicycle light goes green a few seconds before the main light, allowing the bicyclists to get going, sort themselves out according to relative speeds, and get into the bicycle lane. The folks in autos have to wait a few seconds longer, but, generally, don't have to wait for the bicyclists to get going. I think that it works pretty smoothly. The bicyclists get to go to the front, but, generally, the line of bicyclists is sorted out by the time the autos get going.

Best wishes,
Bob

[Jeremy67]

As I and others have posted before, it's not the vehicle, it's the person on or in it. You get idiots and fools operating cars, vans, lorries, buses, motorcycles and bikes.

You aren't going to fix it by raging about it on a watch forum, your best bet is to lobby your MP for a harder test and regular retesting.

[Jeremy67]

So it's ok for you in your car to overtake slower moving traffic, but when you become the slow moving traffic no ones allowed to pass, have I got that correct?

It's not slow moving traffic though is it, it's a queue.

[grandconjuration]

I wish I’d have used the bicycle today.

Commute to work, major delays on the M40 due to barrier repairs. Journey took 45 minutes longer than normal.

Commute home, M40 closed due to someone causing a massive crash by driving their 4x4 towing a caravan the wrong way on the northbound carriageway. I kid you not. Journey took 70 minutes longer than normal.

Within one day, two motorists have delayed me 115 minutes. I reckon that’s about 30 times the total accumulated delay that cyclists have caused me in 30 years of driving.

Still, let’s have a good whinge about cyclists eh.


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[Coops365]

It's not slow moving traffic though is it, it's a queue.

So not slow moving, but stationary. Why on earth would you want to hold up cyclists then?

[trident-7]

It's not slow moving traffic though is it, it's a queue.

It takes me anything between 30 & 80 minutes to commute 11 miles to work by car. On my bike it takes 28-32 minutes depending on wind direction. I regularly pass over 300 cars on the bike (yes I've counted) either by overtaking or riding legally up the bus lane. Do you seriously expect cyclists to sit in line in a queue of motor vehicles? That's one of the benefits of riding a bike. Maybe more people should try it, they might arrive at work full of endorphins with a feeling of well being, rather than stressed out & wound up with frustration looking for a scapegoat to blame.

[thegreatdogwood]

So it's ok for you in your car to overtake slower moving traffic, but when you become the slow moving traffic no ones allowed to pass, have I got that correct?

No you have not got that correct. The topic was cycles pushing to the front of the queue at traffic lights, not overtaking slow moving traffic in a jam. Completely different scenario.

[Captain Morgan]

No you have not got that correct. The topic was cycles pushing to the front of the queue at traffic lights, not overtaking slow moving traffic in a jam. Completely different scenario.

Completely legal action, if you’d like to read more see here.

https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/commun...w-to/filtering

[thegreatdogwood]

Completely legal action, if you’d like to read more see here.

https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/commun...w-to/filtering

Let me try that tact when I push to the front of the queue at the station tomorrow grabbing the last seat - perfectly legal....

The point here is simple, zero issues with cycles overtaking genuine queues of slow moving traffic where they have zero negative impact on others.

Totally different to a cyclist holding up motorists for a number of miles because conditions make it tricky to pass safely and then pushing to the front of a queue at traffic lights with open road ahead and holding the same cars up for a number of further miles while they try to find a safe spot to overtake what is basically a rolling road block again.

[Captain Morgan]

Let me try that tact when I push to the front of the queue at the station tomorrow grabbing the last seat - perfectly legal....

The point here is simple, zero issues with cycles overtaking genuine queues of slow moving traffic where they have zero negative impact on others.

Totally different to a cyclist holding up motorists for a number of miles because conditions make it tricky to pass safely and then pushing to the front of a queue at traffic lights with open road ahead and holding the same cars up for a number of further miles while they try to find a safe spot to overtake what is basically a rolling road block again.

Please do and let us know how that goes down... Though to be fair your comparing apples and chocolate biscuits there.

Perhaps I can’t grasp the kind of roads you share with cyclist that generate such angst, they sound like single carriage way A/B roads, though i’ve not exprianced such that wouldn’t allow safe overtaking of cyclists for multiple miles with so many traffic lights unless in a urban environment and in that situation an inability to safely overtake indicates commuting and if so that’s the nature of the situation.

Perhaps if more people commuted via bike rather that alone in cars congestion would improve.

Oh and it’s filtering not ‘pushing to the front’

[seabiscuit]

I don’t drive a car and I’ve never ridden a cycle. Fortunately for me I love walking. Each weekday after work I walk along the Union Canal from Wester Hailes to Fountainbridge in Edinburgh. Most of the time I share the journey with a colleague and friend. Not too long ago a cyclist rode into her and subjected her to a torrent of verbal abuse. I wish I’d been there to help him see the error of his ways.

I have to say that women cyclists and older male cyclists are absolutely fine. They slow down as they approach pedestrians, the ones coming up from behind give ample warning of their presence. But there are far too many young male cyclists who hurtle along at breakneck speed. They seem to resent the presence of the walkers, runners and dog walkers who also use the canal path. I think they actually enjoy intimidating those who get in their way. Their reading skills aren’t the best, either as most of them fail to heed the signs at both ends of the Slateford Aqueduct instructing cyclists to dismount.

I certainly don’t hate all cyclists. Just the selfish ones who think the canal path is for their exclusive use.

[MrSmith]

No you have not got that correct. The topic was cycles pushing to the front of the queue at traffic lights, not overtaking slow moving traffic in a jam. Completely different scenario.

Pushing to the front of the queue? It’s not buying a stamp at the post office. There is no queue, if you are a smaller more nimble vehicle you go to the front especially if there is an advanced stop line, cycles are not ‘holding up traffic’ they are traffic.
Also they have an inalienable rite to be on the queens highway, the motorist is merely licensed and this privilege can be revoked by the state at any time. If you don’t agree with that then to ease the frustration you could try writing to your MP?

[MrSmith]

I have to say that women drivers and older male motorists are absolutely fine. They slow down as they approach pedestrians, the ones coming up from behind give ample warning of their presence. But there are far too many young male motorists who hurtle along at breakneck speed. They seem to resent the presence of the cyclists, walkers and older drivers who also use the road. I think they actually enjoy intimidating those who get in their way. Their reading skills aren’t the best, either as most of them fail to heed the signs and Speed limits.

I certainly don’t hate all motorists. Just the selfish ones who think the road is for their exclusive use.

My version of your quote edited to reflect a recurring theme.

[Gestarp]

I don’t drive a car and I’ve never ridden a cycle. Fortunately for me I love walking. Each weekday after work I walk along the Union Canal from Wester Hailes to Fountainbridge in Edinburgh. Most of the time I share the journey with a colleague and friend. Not too long ago a cyclist rode into her and subjected her to a torrent of verbal abuse. I wish I’d been there to help him see the error of his ways.

I have to say that women cyclists and older male cyclists are absolutely fine. They slow down as they approach pedestrians, the ones coming up from behind give ample warning of their presence. But there are far too many young male cyclists who hurtle along at breakneck speed. They seem to resent the presence of the walkers, runners and dog walkers who also use the canal path. I think they actually enjoy intimidating those who get in their way. Their reading skills aren’t the best, either as most of them fail to heed the signs at both ends of the Slateford Aqueduct instructing cyclists to dismount.

I certainly don’t hate all cyclists. Just the selfish ones who think the canal path is for their exclusive use.

and youve not been attacked

[seadog1408]

naah its only 4 miles I hardly break a sweat... (hides 3 cans of Lynx in desk drawer)

Ah, the Saudi school of bathing!!!

[Huertecilla]

This is a two-way thing, yes some motorists are not careful enough with cyclists but you have to be blind not to see that cyclists often do not help themselves.

No it is not. You are in a safe for you, not for them vehicle. They die, you do not.

My position is that as the State does not protect the cyclist, they have a right to bear arms. After all, it os their lífe that needs protecting.

The few loonies are balanced by quite a lot more than unfit to drive motorists.

p.s. born and raised in the Netherlands where there are more cyclists and less deaths because the law protects them.
When using my potentially deadly car I drive it as such; as a potential deadly weapon without a safety.

p.p.s. been living in Spain for 18 and avoid roads with traffic and apply Bob´s rule.

[Passenger]

No it is not. You are in a safe for you, not for them vehicle. They die, you do not.

My position is that as the State does not protect the cyclist, they have a right to bear arms. After all, it os their lífe that needs protecting.

The few loonies are balanced by quite a lot more than unfit to drive motorists.

p.s. born and raised in the Netherlands where there are more cyclists and less deaths because the law protects them.
When using my potentially deadly car I drive it as such; as a potential deadly weapon without a safety.

p.p.s. been living in Spain for 18 and avoid roads with traffic and apply Bob´s rule.

it's the cyclists choice to a. cycle on a public thoroughfare and b. behave responsibly or badly, you seem to be suggesting they have every right but no responsibilitiies by virtue of being less protected....isn't that a bit like a car driver putting all the responsibilitiy upon a hgv because it's the bigger, heavier and thus safe vehicle, in the event of a collision.

Don't you slide or drift your car sometimes, seem to recall you mentioning the c company commenting upon your prediliction, there was some reference to going sideways I think, is that driving safely...just wondered...apologies if I've misrecalled.

[seabiscuit]

and youve not been attacked

Worked in Wester Hailes for almost nineteen years now. Never been threatened or felt intimidated during that time. Hope to see out my working days there.

[lughugger]

So not slow moving, but stationary. Why on earth would you want to hold up cyclists then?

Rage? Selfishness? Envy?


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[Huertecilla]

it's the cyclists choice to a. cycle on a public thoroughfare and b. behave responsibly or badly, you seem to be suggesting they have every right but no responsibilitiies by virtue of being less protected....isn't that a bit like a car driver putting all the responsibilitiy upon a hgv because it's the bigger, heavier and thus safe vehicle, in the event of a collision.

Don't you slide or drift your car sometimes, seem to recall you mentioning the c company commenting upon your prediliction, there was some reference to going sideways I think, is that driving safely...just wondered...apologies if I've misrecalled.

Again reading impaired as you see fit followed by cherry picking.

[Passenger]

Again reading impaired as you see fit followed by cherry picking.

errr hardly, care to elaborate on what arms the cyclist in your opinion should bear, or did you mean the right to ride in a sleeveless jersey...just trying to see things from your skewed pov.

[Gestarp]

Worked in Wester Hailes for almost nineteen years now. Never been threatened or felt intimidated during that time. Hope to see out my working days there.

Fair play. My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek. Just be careful of those pesky cyclists on that canal path

[mart broad]

Now the Dutch idiot has stuck its nose in about time this was either closed or taken to the pit it will only go downhill from here.

As i have said it is all about respecting your fellows whether on four wheels or two and hopefully using what holds your ears apart.

[seabiscuit]

Fair play. My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek. Just be careful of those pesky cyclists on that canal path

No worries. Now it’s getting darker so much earlier I take a head torch with me. No point complaining cyclists riding without lights if I’m doing the same.

[thegreatdogwood]

Pushing to the front of the queue? It’s not buying a stamp at the post office. There is no queue, if you are a smaller more nimble vehicle you go to the front especially if there is an advanced stop line, cycles are not ‘holding up traffic’ they are traffic.

Of course it is a queue on a red traffic light and queuing is something most British people respect . That's like saying it's fine to run past the line when the train door opens and grab the last seat because you are more nimble. If a cyclist is the slowest road user in an area where overtaking is difficult and they know they are causing a build up of traffic behind, it is rude to then push to the front of the queue at traffic lights past people that have already patiently waited behind the cyclist at least once.

[cbh]

Honestly, you really don't get it do you, this is not pedestrian vs pedestrian, it's a bike quite legally filtering through slow moving/stopped traffic, no barging pushing or otherwise aggressive behaviour, as you keep trying to claim.

[thegreatdogwood]

Honestly, you really don't get it do you, this is not pedestrian vs pedestrian, it's a bike quite legally filtering through slow moving/stopped traffic, no barging pushing or otherwise aggressive behaviour, as you keep trying to claim.

Actually I cycle myself from time to time, including yesterday. And no I really don't get how cyclists can moan about how they get treated by cars on the one hand yet do things like jump to the front of lights when they know they have already delayed some of the people that are in the queue and will do so again with the ongoing road conditions.

[Captain Morgan]

Actually I cycle myself from time to time, including yesterday. And no I really don't get how cyclists can moan about how they get treated by cars on the one hand yet do things like jump to the front of lights when they know they have already delayed some of the people that are in the queue and will do so again with the ongoing road conditions.

jump to the front FILTER

What about the ones who haven’t been delayed yet, surely it’s only fair they get treated equality?

As i pointed out in a earlier post:
Is this not just the reality of commuting, as much as you complain about cyclists filtering many drivers (perhaps including you) are able to ditch the car and cycle and help reduce the congestion.

[cbh]

Then as a cyclist you should surely understand that the point of being on a bike is not to get caught up in traffic hold ups, that's not to say ignoring traffic lights or awkward junctions.

If you keep getting caught behind the same cyclist at assorted lights, maybe you should be on your bike too as it seems the most efficient form of transport on your chossen route!

[yumma]

I must confess to being slightly perplexed by this thread title. I am both a cyclist and driver. In my experience the worst behaviour (illegal behaviour) and greatest risks taken on the roads seems to be by cyclists, maybe the thread should be titled 'Cyclists stop putting yourselves in danger'?

I would never set out to harm anyone, but have had some close shaves with cyclists who:
1. Run red lights
2. Tear across pedestrian (not Toucan crossings I add) crossings without looking/slowing down.
3. Fail to observe give way markings and join live lanes without looking or safely filtering even at 90 degrees from adjoining cycle paths onto the Highway.
4. Cycle the wrong way up one way streets.
5. Cut roundabouts on the wrong side of the road.
6. Take the 'racing line' through junctions again into the oncoming lane.
7. I could go on, but many others have flagged up other key points.

I'm not saying car drivers are Saints; far from it, but certain cyclists believe the Highway code and certain etiquettes or even common sense does not apply to them. I would again reiterate, that if you have nothing else about you to protect yourself and aren't sat within a 1.5 tonne metal safety cell, why on earth would some people see that the above points made feel acceptable?

We as road users all owe each other the same common courtesy of not endangering each other and owe the same courtesy to our loved ones not to endanger ourselves. I am sure most of us on this forum are sensible but statistically cyclists are the most endangered road users, so why ride in such a flippant style?

[thegreatdogwood]

jump to the front FILTER

What about the ones who haven’t been delayed yet, surely it’s only fair they get treated equality?

As i pointed out in a earlier post:
Is this not just the reality of commuting, as much as you complain about cyclists filtering many drivers (perhaps including you) are able to ditch the car and cycle and help reduce the congestion.

The only congestion in the scenario that I am complaining about is caused by cyclists. I'm fine with the fact that (me included) most cannot keep up with cars on the local roads. But to then perpetuate that by feeling the need to jump back to the front of the queue at each set of lights and hold the same people up again is somewhat counter-productive if you want motorists to treat you with more care.

As I've said umpteen times already I have zero issues with true filtering where cyclists are riding past slow moving traffic in congestion.

[wildheart]

I'm sorry to say cyclists are fast becoming a pest in Chelmsford Essex. Not the sport fanatic cyclist or the keen hobby cyclist, our problem is the commuter cyclist and the rogue I can ride my bike anywhere biker. (Sorry to say usually young) Who ride up one way streets the wrong way, ride through the precinct, ride through indoor shopping centres, ride on footways, over parks and rural pedestrian footways. Then their bikes are attached to any street furniture they see fit, as long as its close to they're destination. I've been hit by a cyclist as have many others pedestrians in our city, this breed of cyclist is not bothered.
Many elderly and visually impaired people are terrified of them. The Police say they have not the man power to deal with them?
I'm sorry to say, cyclists need to clean up their act if they wish society to see them as an asset to community well being. Here we are finding them a bloody nuisance.
Unless you book on a cycle proficiency course I don't think you should be able to even buy a bike!

[Xantiagib]

The only congestion in the scenario that I am complaining about is caused by cyclists. I'm fine with the fact that (me included) most cannot keep up with cars on the local roads. But to then perpetuate that by feeling the need to jump back to the front of the queue at each set of lights and hold the same people up again is somewhat counter-productive if you want motorists to treat you with more care.

As I've said umpteen times already I have zero issues with true filtering where cyclists are riding past slow moving traffic in congestion.

each one to his own but the main reason for going to the front is, apart from when sometimes it is the designated area painted on the road at junction with cycle lanes, but its to be ahead of the exhaust fumes - when we all move to zero Emission cars then I'd happily wait behind ten cars at a junction on my bike - but until that happens its going to be the front for me - albeit i always stay to the side and not directly in front of anyone... its the mopeds that bunch up at the front and I want to be away from their fumes also

So if this is even in the highway code how do you expect police / cyclists to behave at other junctions?:

[thegreatdogwood]

So if this is even in the highway code how do you expect police / cyclists to behave at other junctions?:

That's easy - it means the LHA feel there is NO need to give cycles priority at that particular junction and they should respect the queue along with all other road users.

[cbh]

What you appear to be arguing is that when a bike is the cause of congestion it's fine to overtake when safe, but not the other way around, strange logic.

[adg31]

Slightly off message but I keep seeing a lot of comments here about zero emissions cars being good. Is it worth asking about the mineral extraction, processing and transportation costs of the battery components or the large power stations lurking at the other end of the power cable doing their bit to contribute to pollution levels.
Not so long ago Government policy was to lure everyone into diesel powered cars - until amazingly they discovered that it was actually worse than petrol powered vehicles with increased particular emissions.



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[thegreatdogwood]

What you appear to be arguing is that when a bike is the cause of congestion it's fine to overtake when safe, but not the other way around, strange logic.

I genuinely have zero idea what point you are trying to make here??

[cbh]

Ever sat behind a cyclist for miles waiting for a safe spot to overtake and then shortly after you finally get past them, you come up on some red lights and they then barge to the front of the queue and you're back to square one following someone doing 1/4 of the normal speed for that road.

[thegreatdogwood]

The only strange logic is you trying to suggest that pushing past a line of cars held at a red light with clear road ahead is no different to overtaking cars caught up in genuine congestion. Comments like that really do considerate cyclists NO favours.