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Thread: Stop Killing Cyclists

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptcoll View Post
    The answer is for all road users and pedestrians to have more respect for each other, and to obey the laws that are already in place.
    Bang on.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by draftsmann View Post
    New thread: “cyclists- stop intimidating/injuring/killing pedestrians”.
    0.5% of pedestrian deaths are people killed by people on a bike. So maybe another New thread: “motorists- stop intimidating/injuring/killing pedestrians”. Because that seems like a much bigger problem.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    Motorists will generally pay Tax on a new vehicle along with Vehicle Registration.
    There then follows the privilege of Annual Road Tax, Vehicle Insurance and Tax, Fuel and the extortionate Fuel Tax, Parking Charges and VAT - all coming on top of the Income Tax which you mention.
    As such they do pay quite heavily for the privilege of driving on our ever more congested and crumbling highway infrastructure.
    What tax or insurance does a cyclist specifically pay in comparison?


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    You think people ride bikes because they don't own a car? I've got three cars sat on my drive and I pay a hell of a lot of income tax so I think that more than pays for my use of the public highway when riding my bike.

    And again, there's no such thing as road tax. It was abolished in 1937
    Last edited by trident-7; 13th October 2018 at 19:27.

  4. #54

    Stop Killing Cyclists

    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    And again, there's no such thing as road tax. It was abolished in 1937
    I think many people who ride a bike don't carry insurance and in relation to your above note okay it's a Vehicle Tax collected by those nice folks at the DVLA - is there one for cyclists?



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    Last edited by adg31; 13th October 2018 at 21:22.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    I think many people who ride a bike don't carry insurance and in relation to your above note okay it's a Vehicle Tax collected by those nice folks at the DVLA - is there one or cyclists?
    It’s called Vehicle Excise Duty, and it is related to vehicle emissions. The less environmentally friendly the vehicle is, the more we pay. Some cars have £0 VED as they produce very low emissions. Cyclists are effectively in this category too.

    Pete
    Last edited by ptcoll; 13th October 2018 at 20:40.

  6. #56
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    My take on this as a road user on two and four wheels is as follows:

    There’s certainly a sub-set of cyclists who don’t help themselves, picking and choosing which parts of the Highway Code to apply to themselves and others (usually car drivers) as they see fit. We’ve all seen Lycra-clad individuals running red lights and the berating car drivers for some perceived misdemeanour.

    However, by far the biggest problem is car drivers who possess zero road awareness and couple this with partial control of their vehicle. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been the one to take action in both my bike and in my car to avoid a collision.

    Some form of re-test should be considered. It can’t be right that you pass your test and then have decades of freedom to develop bad habits, all whilst the roads are getting busier and cars faster as time progresses. Every decade or so we should have to go through some form of re-validation short of the full test.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    I think many people who ride a bike don't carry insurance and in relation to your above note okay it's a Vehicle Tax collected by those nice folks at the DVLA - is there one or cyclists?

    K

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    It's a tax based on the emissions produced by the vehicle. Bikes do not have such emissions & so the tax liability would be zero. If you drove an electric car you would similarly not be liable to the tax

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    My take on this as a road user on two and four wheels is as follows:

    There’s certainly a sub-set of cyclists who don’t help themselves, picking and choosing which parts of the Highway Code to apply to themselves and others (usually car drivers) as they see fit. We’ve all seen Lycra-clad individuals running red lights and the berating car drivers for some perceived misdemeanour.

    However, by far the biggest problem is car drivers who possess zero road awareness and couple this with partial control of their vehicle. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been the one to take action in both my bike and in my car to avoid a collision.

    Some form of re-test should be considered. It can’t be right that you pass your test and then have decades of freedom to develop bad habits, all whilst the roads are getting busier and cars faster as time progresses. Every decade or so we should have to go through some form of re-validation short of the full test.
    Spot on

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    My take on this as a road user on two and four wheels is as follows:

    There’s certainly a sub-set of cyclists who don’t help themselves, picking and choosing which parts of the Highway Code to apply to themselves and others (usually car drivers) as they see fit. We’ve all seen Lycra-clad individuals running red lights and the berating car drivers for some perceived misdemeanour.

    However, by far the biggest problem is car drivers who possess zero road awareness and couple this with partial control of their vehicle. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been the one to take action in both my bike and in my car to avoid a collision.

    Some form of re-test should be considered. It can’t be right that you pass your test and then have decades of freedom to develop bad habits, all whilst the roads are getting busier and cars faster as time progresses. Every decade or so we should have to go through some form of re-validation short of the full test.
    Is there a cycle test that's compulsory?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Is there a cycle test that's compulsory?
    I think we know the answer to that

    I would definitely support the re-introduction of something like the cycling proficiency test, which was not compulsory.

    Don’t forget that the vast majority of cyclists are motorists - don’t separate them into a different category.

    Pete

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ptcoll View Post
    I think we know the answer to that

    I would definitely support the re-introduction of something like the cycling proficiency test, which was not compulsory.

    Don’t forget that the vast majority of cyclists are motorists - don’t separate them into a different category.

    Pete
    I drive a car and a motorbike...I had to take a separate test for each.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptcoll View Post
    I think we know the answer to that

    I would definitely support the re-introduction of something like the cycling proficiency test, which was not compulsory.

    Don’t forget that the vast majority of cyclists are motorists - don’t separate them into a different category.

    Pete
    I have no problems with cyclists, but the way they ride through Brighton, it seems a lot of them have a death wish!!!!

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    I drive a car and a motorbike...I had to take a separate test for each.
    Indeed, and at some cost, financially.

    I must admit to getting a little ticked off by the cycling 'movement' who seem to believe they are a special case deserving of greater consideration than the higher numbers of other road users (and pedestrians) who are killed every year.
    This afternoon I was walking down a road with a perfectly serviceable marked cycle path down the pavement...and yet there were pillocks on pushbikes who insisted on riding on the road, seemingly deliberately holding up traffic behind them.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    This afternoon I was walking down a road with a perfectly serviceable marked cycle path down the pavement...and yet there were pillocks on pushbikes who insisted on riding on the road, seemingly deliberately holding up traffic behind them.
    That’s a fair call. I always try and use a cycle path alongside a road if I can.

    But to help you and others to understand a cyclists psyche, it’s all about risk for me. On the road, there are at least some rules about how to behave. On a shared cycle path (they are pretty much all shared with pedestrians), there are a lot fewer rules. Pedestrians (and I am frequently one) are the most haphazard users of shared facilities, particularly if they have dogs with them. It’s often safer for a cyclist to use the road, than proceed at just walking pace past pedestrians. And the delay for motorists is often a small one.

    I’m not having a go at pedestrians, just trying to help others understand how cyclists think. It can be bloody scary out there, but we still enjoy it !

    Pete

  15. #65
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    This is the demo the OP was talking about/taking part, pls ignore if the link has been posted already


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  16. #66
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    Stop Killing Cyclists

    Quote Originally Posted by ptcoll View Post
    That’s a fair call. I always try and use a cycle path alongside a road if I can.

    But to help you and others to understand a cyclists psyche, it’s all about risk for me. On the road, there are at least some rules about how to behave. On a shared cycle path (they are pretty much all shared with pedestrians), there are a lot fewer rules. Pedestrians (and I am frequently one) are the most haphazard users of shared facilities, particularly if they have dogs with them. It’s often safer for a cyclist to use the road, than proceed at just walking pace past pedestrians. And the delay for motorists is often a small one.

    I’m not having a go at pedestrians, just trying to help others understand how cyclists think. It can be bloody scary out there, but we still enjoy it !

    Pete
    This is typical of everything that is wrong with cyclists on the road:
    I translate with a slight caricature to emphasise the point: as a cyclist I can’t be arsed to slow down on cycle paths when there are pedestrians, I’d rather ride on the road this way I’m the haphazard one and the cars are the ones who must be careful.

    Well, in many countries now if you drive you must have your lights on to make yourself more visible. I would start by making high vis compulsory for riding on the road (I do, both on a bicycle and on a motorbike).
    I would also make it compulsory to use cycle path when they exist.
    Then, and only then, can we think of spending money and increase the number of cycle lanes, and create a safer environment for all.
    As for the idiot who thought his title thread was clever, I would like to suggest a few more that will surely attract the same kind of sympathy :
    stop molesting children
    stop raping whoever takes your fancy
    Thus implying that not only are there cyclist killers among us, but paedos and rapists for good measure.
    Last edited by Saint-Just; 13th October 2018 at 22:53.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  17. #67
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    I don’t have a problem with cyclists. I have a problem with inconsiderate cyclists who seem to be in the majority where I live. The ones who ride 4 a breast at 15mph down windy roads so there’s no opportunity to overtake. I equally despise the similarly inconsiderate car drivers who have no lane discipline or awareness of anyone around them. It’s not about cyclists, it’s about inconsiderate selfish people whatever their mode of transport. Unfortunately, cycling seems to attract a rather larger proportion of inconsiderate idiots than other forms of transport. We have loads of horses ridden on the roads near us, but they usually ride in single file, respect other road users and are polite and acknowledge considerate overtakers. The cyclists on the other hand seem to have an “I own the road and will inconvenience everyone else as much as I can” attitude. I’ve been very tempted to run a few of the tossers over on several occasions. It’s only the fear of waking up in a cell next to a 17st fiancée called Brian that has stopped me.
    Last edited by Cynar; 13th October 2018 at 23:49. Reason: Expletives removed - thought I was in the Bear Pit.

  18. #68
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    "As for the idiot who thought his title thread was clever.."

    Campaign group Stop Killing Cyclists organised the event called the National Funeral for the Unknown Cyclist and marched through London this afternoon.
    use link in my post above

    Next time the group organises GTG I suggest you go and tell them about alternative campaign names. Please let me know when you'll go so I'd go to watch you in action.. All 20 seconds of it :)) And do not forget to call them idiots. Well I say 10s..
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  19. #69
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    I am amazed it's only 1000 cyclists in a decade, each day I see numerous cyclists riding like idiots, jumping read lights, weaving in between cars way too fast. I see cyclists dart in front of cars at roundabouts and force cars to brake!

    It's these idiots(usually licra lads) that give the rest of the cyclists a bad reputation.

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  20. #70
    Journeyman rigster2's Avatar
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    As a keen cyclist I can see there are valid points here.

    In town there are the "no lights" brigade and if I offered them a free set, I'd be told to "f##k off" etc.

    Out of town in the Lincolnshire Wolds it seems full of riders who I am sure think they are in the Tour and think the roads are closed for them.

    Of course there are hundreds of others who don't attract any attention and cycle around without causing offence.

    Pretty much just like driving really.....

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Kent View Post
    When cyclists learn the highway code, stop running red lights, stop undertaking larger vehicles and generally stop acting like they are in a car whilst only protected by skin and bone, drivers might have more sympathy. I know drivers and pedestrians are also to blame, but jeez, the things I see cyclists do in London doesn't make me surprised that cyclists die.
    Well said.

  22. #72
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    I’m all for bike riding.

    But then I’m also all for the application of some common sense.

    Almost every morning I sit in a queue of twenty or more cars trundling along at 10mph behind a solitary cyclist who has decided that it is his right to bike along a very busy major road in the height of rush hour and delay countless others on their way to work, and force them into risky overtaking manoeuvres they shouldn’t have to make.

    A single selfish cyclist on a five mile pedal probably impedes the time critical journey of hundreds of commuters and creates risk where there shouldn’t need to be a risk.

    Cycle in the evenings or at weekends by all means, just not at the height of rush hour on roads too narrow to enable safe passing. Mamils seem to think they have the right to put everyone else at risk, and delay their journeys for the sake of their hobby.

  23. #73
    In the last few weeks....

    I pulled up to a cross roads with no traffic lights, very busy left and right with 3 cars directly in front me me all coming straight across. As I generally use the 'you were there first method I let all 3 cars go across and waited until left and right was clear to turn right myself.
    Whilst waiting for the 3 cars to cross about 200 yards behind them there was a cyclist.
    He was clearly aware that I was there, he could clearly see that I had let the other 3 cars go and I was sat patiently waiting. As the last car crossed, the cyclist was just pulling up to the line and was dropping his feet on the floor. The road was clear left and right and so I started to pull out, exactly at the same time the cyclist decided to as well. I abruptly braked in the middle of the road only to be met with a mouthful of abuse.

    Waiting at a roundabout to bear off right, car behind me also bearing right.
    Behind him cyclist who again was following right, or as i thought. The cyclist decide it would be a good idea to come up outside of the car behind me, pull between the front of his car and the back of mine, come up my inside and and then waited about 3 feet away from my left bumper.
    As I pulled off it appeared he wasn't bearing left however he decided to swerve back over and basically cut me up. This was also greeted with a mouthful of abuse by the cyclist.

    I was going down our local high street when a group of about 30 cyclist appeared from nowhere and started to overtake and undertake everyone that was in the line.
    About 5 cars ahead of me a guy was turning right and of course he shut the door on one of the cyclist who was bowling down the outside. In an attempt to miss the car he veered to his right straight in to the oncoming traffic narrowly avoiding a car coming the other way.
    I was turning left however I couldn't because the bike had undertook me and was on my blindside.
    I had to stop in the road otherwise I would have hit him off, with that I was nearly rear ended by another cyclist who was coming up behind. It was total chaos.
    I spent the rest of the day looking for cycle meets and thanks to a Facebook post on our local site I found it was an Audex arranged ride from Bristol.
    I emailed and CC'd everyone on the contacts list and made a complaint with the appalling behaviour and lack of consideration to other road users this group had showed.

    I just wish that cyclist would realise and understand that they're some of the most vulnerable users on the roads. It doesn't take much for a car made of metal to wreck a cyclists day. However from my experience not just over the last few weeks they don't seem to take that in to consideration.
    My business partner is a avid cyclist doing thousands of miles a year and he openly admits that cyclists make up some of the worst users on our roads. He gets rather animated when talking of the subject and says that there's a large majority that paint a small majority in very bad light.
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 14th October 2018 at 08:36.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    In the last few weeks....

    I pulled up to a cross roads with no traffic lights, very busy left and right with 3 cars directly in front me me all coming straight across. As I generally use the 'you were there first method I let all 3 cars go across and waited until left and right was clear to turn right myself.
    Whilst waiting for the 3 cars to cross about 200 yards behind them there was a cyclist.
    He was clearly aware that I was there, he could clearly see that I had let the other 3 cars go and I was sat patiently waiting. As the last car crossed, the cyclist was just pulling up to the line and was dropping his feet on the floor. The road was clear left and right and so I started to pull out, exactly at the same time the cyclist decided to as well. I abruptly braked in the middle of the road only to be met with a mouthful of abuse.
    Surely the cars and cyclist coming straight across have right of way and it's not a matter of 'letting them go'.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Surely the cars and cyclist coming straight across have right of way and it's not a matter of 'letting them go'.
    i always thought that right turning traffic had priority...perhaps I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 14th October 2018 at 08:43.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    i always thought that right turning traffic had priority...perhaps I'm wrong.
    You're crossing the path of traffic and should give way.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    I’m all for bike riding.

    But then I’m also all for the application of some common sense.

    Almost every morning I sit in a queue of twenty or more cars trundling along at 10mph behind a solitary cyclist who has decided that it is his right to bike along a very busy major road in the height of rush hour and delay countless others on their way to work, and force them into risky overtaking manoeuvres they shouldn’t have to make.

    A single selfish cyclist on a five mile pedal probably impedes the time critical journey of hundreds of commuters and creates risk where there shouldn’t need to be a risk.

    Cycle in the evenings or at weekends by all means, just not at the height of rush hour on roads too narrow to enable safe passing. Mamils seem to think they have the right to put everyone else at risk, and delay their journeys for the sake of their hobby.
    I’m all for driving cars. But then I’m also all for the application of some common sense.

    Almost every morning when cycling to work I get stuck in queues of hundreds of cars, all occupied by a single driver who has decided that it is their right to take up a huge amount of road space on their way to work, usually stopping in a cycle lane, forcing me into risky overtaking manoeuvres I shouldn’t have to make.

    The annoying thing is that there’s a perfectly good dual carriageway built primarily for motorists. But this gets clogged up at rush hour due to all the motorists wanting to be on the road at the same time. So then the motorists use all the narrower roads in the area, clogging them up too.

    Drive in the evenings or at weekends by all means, use a motorway whenever you want. Just don’t drive on narrow roads at rush hour that were never designed to support a high volume of traffic.




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  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Groundrush View Post
    I am constantly perplexed by cyclists. They voluntarily engage in an activity that requires them to defer all responsibility for their safety to random strangers and then wonder why some people don't treat their safety quite as seriously as they obviously don't. It's not like they don't know what the roads and driving standards are like.
    This. I used to cycle quite a bit on main roads and country lanes but gave up because I didn’t fancy my chances against cars going past at 60mph. Cycling on public roads is dangerous. I chose to remove myself from an obviously dangerous situation. If others choose to insert themselves into a dangerous situation, then they have accept some risk and responsibility.

    I didn’t blame the cars or their drivers. No-one is deliberately killing cyclists. Where drivers cause death or accidents they are caught, tried, and sentenced. The same isn’t usually the case for cyclists. With no licence plate on a cycle and no database of cyclists it is too easy for a cyclist to abuse a driver, damage a vehicle, or hurt a pedestrian, and then vanish.

  29. #79
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    So many motorists on the road, have become totally selfish and inconsiderate to other users.

    They usually conform to “might is right”, so you don’t see the car-driver cutting up the HGVs - it is always to something of similar, or smaller mass. That puts the motorcyclist and cyclist (and pedestrian) firmly in their sights.

    But - there does appear to be a subset of cyclists who rely upon some mis-placed morality - to keep them out of danger. Ever seen a cyclist do a ‘lifesaver’ look over their shoulder before moving out from their original track/lane?

    I like to think I am considerate to cyclists, and would have to admit - dont see too many cyclists who have a death-wish (I don’t live in urban/city, and don’t commute). But - I do see plenty of ‘angry’ drivers on the roads who I often think to myself “probably in a rush to get home - to beat up his wife”.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post
    I’m all for driving cars. But then I’m also all for the application of some common sense.

    Almost every morning when cycling to work I get stuck in queues of hundreds of cars, all occupied by a single driver who has decided that it is their right to take up a huge amount of road space on their way to work, usually stopping in a cycle lane, forcing me into risky overtaking manoeuvres I shouldn’t have to make.

    The annoying thing is that there’s a perfectly good dual carriageway built primarily for motorists. But this gets clogged up at rush hour due to all the motorists wanting to be on the road at the same time. So then the motorists use all the narrower roads in the area, clogging them up too.

    Drive in the evenings or at weekends by all means, use a motorway whenever you want. Just don’t drive on narrow roads at rush hour that were never designed to support a high volume of traffic.




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    I see what you did there...

    Unfortunately most people have to commute some distance otherwise the economy would collapse. Cycling twenty or thirty miles each way is not really viable for the vast majority, and drivers pay through the nose to use the road system that wouldn’t exist without their contributions.

  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    You're crossing the path of traffic and should give way.
    On all cross roads, which have no give way signs or even advertise the fact that cross roads are there?

  32. #82
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    Everyone has a right to use the road, whether car, bike or cyclist, and all can be complete tits. Living rurally I have noticed many more cyclists these past few years and I have to say when there is more than one they come across rather arrogant for some reason and act as though they have complete Carte Blanche over other road users.

    Followed a group yesterday who made no effort to let me pass, riding sometimes 3 abreast down a long country B road. Ended up with a tailback of 20 vehicles for over 3 miles.

    Situations like this, ignoring car users, jumping lights and lack of consideration don’t endear them to other road users if I’m honest. Rarely to they pull over regardless of the tailbacks they create. Even tractor drivers are more considerate where I live.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    This is typical of everything that is wrong with cyclists on the road:
    I translate with a slight caricature to emphasise the point: as a cyclist I can’t be arsed to slow down on cycle paths when there are pedestrians, I’d rather ride on the road this way I’m the haphazard one and the cars are the ones who must be careful.

    Well, in many countries now if you drive you must have your lights on to make yourself more visible. I would start by making high vis compulsory for riding on the road (I do, both on a bicycle and on a motorbike).
    I would also make it compulsory to use cycle path when they exist.
    Then, and only then, can we think of spending money and increase the number of cycle lanes, and create a safer environment for all.
    As for the idiot who thought his title thread was clever, I would like to suggest a few more that will surely attract the same kind of sympathy :
    stop molesting children
    stop raping whoever takes your fancy
    Thus implying that not only are there cyclist killers among us, but paedos and rapists for good measure.

    You can be lit uplike a Christmas tree - i still won't help you with myopic drivers that are often engaged in their phones, or come out with the SMIDSY response when they pull out on you..

    Compulsory use of cycle lanes? does that include the ones that are useless, end abruptly or are interrupted by street furniture, or covered in broken glass and rubbish;
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...st-cycle-lanes.

    Sorry if the thread title offended you, but as VDG has said it is the name of the pressure group who organised the event - which was very well attended and peaceful. The speeches in Smith Square were very moving..
    It was not just about cyclists being killed on the roads - but also about recognising the effects of the pollution we all suffer through being in thrall to the motor lobby.
    Thanks to the various posters on here who have tried to explain things from the cyclists (who are usually drivers as well), viewpoint. Especially for pointing out the 'pay road tax' fallacy, but it seems we are banging our heads against a brick wall..

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by bry nylon View Post
    You can be lit uplike a Christmas tree - i still won't help you with myopic drivers that are often engaged in their phones, or come out with the SMIDSY response when they pull out on you..

    Compulsory use of cycle lanes? does that include the ones that are useless, end abruptly or are interrupted by street furniture, or covered in broken glass and rubbish;
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...st-cycle-lanes.

    Sorry if the thread title offended you, but as VDG has said it is the name of the pressure group who organised the event - which was very well attended and peaceful. The speeches in Smith Square were very moving..
    It was not just about cyclists being killed on the roads - but also about recognising the effects of the pollution we all suffer through being in thrall to the motor lobby.
    Thanks to the various posters on here who have tried to explain things from the cyclists (who are usually drivers as well), viewpoint. Especially for pointing out the 'pay road tax' fallacy, but it seems we are banging our heads against a brick wall..
    And what about the pedestrians viewpoint?? Seems we’re banging our heads against a brick wall!




    On a separate note, while I applaud the chaps who have reached middle age and let themselves go a bit (a lot) trying to do some physical activity, it baffles me why they would chose to do so in skin tight clothing!!

  35. #85
    Journeyman grandconjuration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    I see what you did there...

    Unfortunately most people have to commute some distance otherwise the economy would collapse. Cycling twenty or thirty miles each way is not really viable for the vast majority, and drivers pay through the nose to use the road system that wouldn’t exist without their contributions.
    I see, another insinuation that drivers should have a priority because they “contribute”. The total revenue raised from motoring taxes comes nowhere near the total cost needed to maintain the road network. The road system is funded through general taxation.

    I’m all for cyclists paying a little towards the upkeep of the roads, just so these “drivers pay but cyclists don’t” arguments can be put to bed once and for all. However, maybe the level of tax should be calculated according to the magnitude of damage that each vehicle does to the road.

    The damage that each vehicle does to the road follows the fourth power rule. Roughly, a car does 38,000 times more damage to a road than a bicycle. I’m happy to pay one pound cycling road tax a year if you’re happy to pay 38,000 pounds for a car. Or, drivers can continue to pay 100-200 pounds a year, and cyclists pay 0.002 pence.



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  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    On all cross roads, which have no give way signs or even advertise the fact that cross roads are there?
    In your example yes, no different to turning right into a side-street.

    Priority not so obvious if traffic on both crossing roads and no give way signs.

  37. #87
    Sorry to the OP, but your responses, in the main, demonstrate the problem quite effectively... them and us.

    We all use the roads, you have no more rights than any other user, your vulnerability is no more protected and poor behavior is just as much your own responsibility as a pedestrian or car driver.

    Ultimately we are all also responsible for our own safety and the addition of risk which is taken by many cyclists by refusing to accept that responsibility is likely a significant contributor to the death and injury of cyclists.

    Statistically I am amazed that it is so few cyclists killed overall given some of the behavior I see, albeit I would like it to be zero, but like in all accidents, their is often a shared culpability rather than ‘it must be the car’.




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  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    In your example yes, no different to turning right into a side-street.

    Priority not so obvious if traffic on both crossing roads and no give way signs.
    I didn't give an example, I only stated that the cross roads had no lights. The cross roads in question had no give way signs and so as far as I'm concerned it's always best to use a system that works.....i.e. You were here first mate-fill your boots.
    However that wasn't the point in question, the point was that he was a long way back at the point I pulled up and expected to take priority over me without a care to his own safety.

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I didn't give an example, I only stated that the cross roads had no lights. The cross roads in question had no give way signs and so as far as I'm concerned it's always best to use a system that works.....i.e. You were here first mate-fill your boots.
    However that wasn't the point in question, the point was that he was a long way back at the point I pulled up and expected to take priority over me without a care to his own safety.
    Ok then, not an example, the situation you described.

    Doesn't matter how far back he was, he has priority and doesn't have to let you go. No wonder it's dangerous for cyclists if drivers think they can cut them up like this.

  40. #90
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post
    I see, another insinuation that drivers should have a priority because they “contribute”. The total revenue raised from motoring taxes comes nowhere near the total cost needed to maintain the road network. The road system is funded through general taxation.

    I’m all for cyclists paying a little towards the upkeep of the roads, just so these “drivers pay but cyclists don’t” arguments can be put to bed once and for all. However, maybe the level of tax should be calculated according to the magnitude of damage that each vehicle does to the road.

    The damage that each vehicle does to the road follows the fourth power rule. Roughly, a car does 38,000 times more damage to a road than a bicycle. I’m happy to pay one pound cycling road tax a year if you’re happy to pay 38,000 pounds for a car. Or, drivers can continue to pay 100-200 pounds a year, and cyclists pay 0.002 pence.



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    Or a calculation is made based upon the cost to the economy of the delays caused by cyclists in peak periods, the increased journey times and additional subsequent fuel usage, and compensation for inconvenience.

    Anything can be priced... everything has a cost.

    Ps - out road system could be the best in the world if even a significant fraction of the taxation collected from car users was actually spent on it.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Ok then, not an example, the situation you described.

    Doesn't matter how far back he was, he has priority and doesn't have to let you go. No wonder it's dangerous for cyclists if drivers think they can cut them up like this.
    From your own admission below where you say that priority isn't clear on unsigned crossings,I don't understand how you can say he would have had priority.
    I was waiting there for some time before he even pulled up- no wonder it's hard for car drivers to preempt cyclist actions if they can jump across the road in front of someone like that.

  42. #92
    Craftsman
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    Walked out of my front gate with dog on lead and Bang! dog hit by a lycra'd up cyclist doing about 20mph on the pavement
    120 quid vet fees later and pups recovering
    Around here the pavement seems to be the norm
    What really annoys me is there is a cycle path along the estuary about 200 metres away

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    From your own admission below where you say that priority isn't clear on unsigned crossings,I don't understand how you can say he would have had priority.
    I was waiting there for some time before he even pulled up- no wonder it's hard for car drivers to preempt cyclist actions if they can jump across the road in front of someone like that.
    My 'admission' was that priority isn't clear on unmarked crossroads if there is traffic on both roads, didn't appear to be the case here.

  44. #94
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    I’m all for bike riding.

    But then I’m also all for the application of some common sense.

    Almost every morning I sit in a queue of twenty or more cars trundling along at 10mph behind a solitary cyclist who has decided that it is his right to bike along a very busy major road in the height of rush hour and delay countless others on their way to work, and force them into risky overtaking manoeuvres they shouldn’t have to make.

    A single selfish cyclist on a five mile pedal probably impedes the time critical journey of hundreds of commuters and creates risk where there shouldn’t need to be a risk.

    Cycle in the evenings or at weekends by all means, just not at the height of rush hour on roads too narrow to enable safe passing. Mamils seem to think they have the right to put everyone else at risk, and delay their journeys for the sake of their hobby.
    Have you tried to contact your local MP/Council and tell them of inadequate state of the local roads infrastructure and suggested building a separate cycling route/s which would reduce risk to cyclists and improve journey times for the motorists, not to mention roads safety for all involved?
    Last edited by VDG; 14th October 2018 at 10:42.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  45. #95
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    Have you tried to contact your local MP/Council and tell them of inadequate state of the local roads infrastructure and suggesting building a separate cycling route/s which would reduce risk to cyclists and improve journey times for the motorists, not to mention roads safety for all involved?
    Never mind that how many potholes are repaired?

    What you suggest is sensible but it will not happen.

  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    My 'admission' was that priority isn't clear on unmarked crossroads if there is traffic on both roads, didn't appear to be the case here.
    No you jumped to a conclusion that the cross roads had giveway signs which they didn't.
    There are also no road markings indicating priority.
    Traffic was on the road going from left to right and cars were coming from straight ahead.
    Once they had gone it was just him and me.
    Show me where it states he had priority over me and I'll admit my mistake.

  47. #97
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edzt View Post
    Walked out of my front gate with dog on lead and Bang! dog hit by a lycra'd up cyclist doing about 20mph on the pavement
    120 quid vet fees later and pups recovering
    Around here the pavement seems to be the norm
    What really annoys me is there is a cycle path along the estuary about 200 metres away
    I presume the eco warrior oh sorry cyclist’s insurance took care of the dog?

  48. #98
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mart broad View Post
    Never mind that how many potholes are repaired?

    What you suggest is sensible but it will not happen.
    Potholes and litter which is everywhere every time I come from abroad it's the first thing which jumps at me, its like someone is doing it on purpose..
    Last edited by VDG; 14th October 2018 at 10:55.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  49. #99
    Journeyman grandconjuration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    Or a calculation is made based upon the cost to the economy of the delays caused by cyclists in peak periods, the increased journey times and additional subsequent fuel usage, and compensation for inconvenience.

    Anything can be priced... everything has a cost.

    Ps - out road system could be the best in the world if even a significant fraction of the taxation collected from car users was actually spent on it.
    What is the cost to the economy of these alleged delays caused by cyclists?

    I drive about 25k miles a year. Never been delayed for more than a few seconds by a cyclist.


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  50. #100
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by mart broad View Post
    I presume the eco warrior oh sorry cyclist’s insurance took care of the dog?
    Said cyclist didnt stop!

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