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Thread: Stop Killing Cyclists

  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post

    I will remind you that this thread was called " stop killing cyclist" when in essence it actually should have been called "stop killing cyclist and pedestrians" if it had it would have elicited less a response from me and would have piqued my interest a lot less.
    The pressure group is called "stop killing cyclists", not "stop killing cyclists & pedestrians", hence the name of the thread. http://stopkillingcyclists.org

    Although you could start one if you want.

  2. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    The pressure group is called "stop killing cyclists", not "stop killing cyclists & pedestrians", hence the name of the thread. http://stopkillingcyclists.org

    Although you could start one if you want.
    Thanks for that. I followed the FB link from the above link and found this which I'm asking the cyclist on here who are calling for better sentencing to comment on.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-46070280

    Now I will add the fact that if he left the scene of the accident then he needs hanging by his buster browns, however that doesn't seem the case and he felt he hit something very different.

    Do you think that a jail sentence was fustified in this instance? If not what is justifiable?

    Id like to know your comments about him knowing he was taking his life in his hands yet failed to wear reflective clothing on an unlight section of carriageway as foolhardy?

    So this is clearly an instance where the stats are being used as a death by a motorists.....is it not a huge step to make that is is just a very small example of a very bigger picture.
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 5th November 2018 at 21:14.

  3. #453
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    The Bournemouth Echo (link is external) reports that Christopher Gibbs, 30, was riding home from work on an "arrow-straight" stretch of the A338 Spur Road near Bournemouth at around 10.15pm on October 3, 2017, when he was hit from behind by a Mercedes Citan van driven by Kevin Johnson.

    Evidence was heard from several motorists who passed Gibbs before the collision. Some said the light on the back of the bike had appeared "faint" while others said the victim was "easily" visible from as far away as 200 yards.

    Gibbs hit the bonnet and windscreen of Johnsonís van and was thrown 47.5 metres.

    Johnson pulled over and made a "cursory" search of the carriageway before continuing to the Applewood Hotel to drop off a suitcase.

    Prosecutors alleged dangerous driving for continuing with a shattered windscreen. The charge was ordered to lie on file.

    Johnson did not enter pleas to failing to stop after a road accident or failing to report an accident. Both charges were not proceeded with by the prosecution.

    After the collision, a passing motorist and lorry driver stopped to give CPR to Gibbs at the scene before paramedics arrived. However, the court heard he had died instantly as a result of "overwhelming head injuries".

    After arriving at the hotel, Johnson wiped blood from the van with a tissue and took photographs of the damage. He told mechanics who came to collect the vehicle that he believed he could have hit a deer and may have "blacked out for a second".

    Travelling back along the A338 Spur Road, he saw emergency services workers and searched the web for information on road closures.

    A police officer spotted the van on the back of a recovery truck and reported it as a possible suspect vehicle for the collision. Attempts were made to track down the driver.

    At 6.20am the next day, Johnson searched 'contact police', but did not make a call. Three minutes later, officers arrived at his address and arrested him.

    Ian Bridge, mitigating, said Johnson was "desperately sorry" for his "momentary inattention" to the road ahead.

    Johnson was sentenced to 240 hours of unpaid work and ordered to pay £250 in prosecution costs. He was disqualified from driving for 18 months.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    The issue of lenient sentence has always been there after all that's the reason for this thread. I merely added to that with examples of virtually every scenario in the justice system where lenient sentence also exist.....cyclist injury with pi** poor sentencing is not uncommon if you take the justice system as a whole.
    Yet this is a thread relating to sentencing in cases involving cyclists and motorists, while I agree dealing with poor sentencing as a whole would be a magnificent thing, sometimes we have to focus on the things we are passionate about first.


    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I don't really know how to answer your main question to me.....I really don't know what I'm supposed to say or what you're trying to make me say. What I will do is indulge you with an answer that I think you're after. Yes I think the accident involving the cyclist is terrible, clearly I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
    HOWEVER, I'm not more or less emotionally attached about the outcome based purely on the fact it's a cyclist involved......clearly you seem to think that because it's a cyclist the outcome should have been different.
    I didn't think your would be attached either way I was simply asking what your response was, thank you for sharing it. I accept I will likely have a greater response as I cycle and believe in cyclists rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    My 3rd hand anecdote so you put it was an example of lenient sentencing for which I was not involved with but my wife was. The simple fact remains that an elderly gentleman ran over a mother and her daughter at a set of traffic lights. He was 80 plus- he didn't see that the lights had changed to red or that 2 people were crossing. He ploughed in to them causing the mother to be thrown many feet in the air which caused life changing injuries, luckily the little girl was slightly behind her mother and did not take the full brunt of the impact and was thrown sideways. He wasn't prosecuted however he handed his licence over
    There is no reason for you to need to know anymore info. It's an example of an accident where a motorist caused life changing injuries yet basically got away Scott free.
    Lets be fair thats a much more detailed account than your original, with that we could have had some meaning full discussion earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    By asking for parity you surely need to ask the same parity for all other lenient sentencing where accidents involving motorists and other road users are concerned.....surely you understand this simple point?
    The fact that you ask for this to me shows that you feel that cyclist involved accidents command a greater and more severe sentencing.
    Thats your prerogative but I can't share that view, as per the stats I shared earlier motoring accidents that do not involve cyclists are ~15% more likely to receive a custodial sentence and the duration of sentences are also ~12 longer, I fail to see why seeking to get closer to parity is seeking special sentencing.

    To my mind its like arguing that when women were seeking the vote they were seeking special privileges and not simply parity, the same when South Africans were fighting apartate were they seeking special privileges or simply parity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I will remind you that this thread was called " stop killing cyclist" when in essence it actually should have been called "stop killing cyclist and pedestrians" if it had it would have elicited less a response from me and would have piqued my interest a lot less.
    I believe the OP has already covered this.

  5. #455
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    Re Christopher Gibbs,

    My thoughts are that yes the victim has been failed by the system.

    My thinking is: Mr Gibbs was clearly visible to other motorists some saying over 180m away, others say they had trouble seeing him.
    Q did he have issues with his lights, were some drives more observant than others.

    Mr Gibbs was not waring Hi Viz and while it is not a legal requirement I would have hoped that a regular commuter would have used some, I believe that yes this would have contributed to the incident.

    That Mr Johnson stopped and performed a cursory search of the area is laudable, I do find it strange that Mr Johnson was unable to locate Mr Gibbs, especially as other road users who I assume were unaware of the collision were able to locate and try to render assistance.

    I also have issue with Mr Johnson returning past the scene and observing emergency services at work, hardly an effort regularly undertaken for deer.

    On balance I think that a custodial sentence would be justified given he left the scene, returned passed the seen and made efforts to search on the internet for information about the incident.

  6. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Re Christopher Gibbs,

    My thoughts are that yes the victim has been failed by the system.

    My thinking is: Mr Gibbs was clearly visible to other motorists some saying over 180m away, others say they had trouble seeing him.
    Q did he have issues with his lights, were some drives more observant than others.

    Mr Gibbs was not waring Hi Viz and while it is not a legal requirement I would have hoped that a regular commuter would have used some, I believe that yes this would have contributed to the incident.

    That Mr Johnson stopped and performed a cursory search of the area is laudable, I do find it strange that Mr Johnson was unable to locate Mr Gibbs, especially as other road users who I assume were unaware of the collision were able to locate and try to render assistance.

    I also have issue with Mr Johnson returning past the scene and observing emergency services at work, hardly an effort regularly undertaken for deer.

    On balance I think that a custodial sentence would be justified given he left the scene, returned passed the seen and made efforts to search on the internet for information about the incident.
    So you believe that the lack of Hi Viz contributed to the accident and that it was questionable due to varied evidence regarding the effectiveness of his lighting.
    Im with you that the points regarding what he thought he hit and not being able to locate anything were surprising however agin that can't be proved either way I guess.

    So on balance based on the fact I'm not a cyclist, I can see why he wasnt given a custodial sentence.....I can also see why as a cyclist you believe he should have.....i get it I really do.

    My point to this is that this clearly makes up an example where a statistic of lenient sentencing is used...what if this is just the tip of the iceberg?
    Are all the stats reliable......I don't think so.

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