Reply With QuoteWe can certainly make it more difficult for speculators and scalpers on a watch forum. Take note of this quote from the article covert forum dealers - "you guys aren’t helping anyone but yourselves".Originally Posted by ataripower
So what does everyone think? Is it down to us as consumers to prevent the growth of watch scalpers and speculators and close them down or should the industry (Rolex and Patek) be doing more to produce more in demand watches. Great article:
https://www.ablogtowatch.com/how-sca...any-consumers/
We can certainly make it more difficult for speculators and scalpers on a watch forum. Take note of this quote from the article covert forum dealers - "you guys aren’t helping anyone but yourselves".
What he says is surely true; the whole, over-heated, market is alienating customers. It can't last. But a lot of customers will have been driven away.
Good article. I for one will never pay above retail for a watch, I'm not rewarding someone else for picking up something with the intention of making money on it over and above the RRP... and yeah, I recognise that the RRP is often somewhat arbitrary for luxury items and that on some level even paying RRP is rewarding someone trying their luck.
The whole saga around Rolex right now has totally alienated me. I'm in a position now where a Sub and Explorer are purchases I'd seriously consider making but I'm not playing games with watches, if Rolex can't produce enough or haven't got enough control over their sealer network to ensure that the watches get to real customers, then they aren't getting money from me. I recognise that steps have been taken by Rolex to control the network but even the warranty card nonsense is alienating in itself.
It's not all bad, instead of defaulting to the Rolex stable I've spent plenty of time looking at other brands who will give me a watch the day I walk into their shop and maybe even let me keep the warranty card.
Absolutely and this point is made very clearly in the article along with the suggestion that you buy what you actually really like and will enjoy and not primarily because it might let you get your money back when/if you sell.
I cannot say it bothers me - it impacts a tiny fraction of people buying watches (UK Average selling price - £87) around the world - it's a non-problem for everyone except this tiny minority. It's just obviously being on a watch site and being obsessed with watches then it is of course a massive problem...
Fascinating read, thanks to the OP for posting.
I would never buy over a Rolex at these over inflated prices, and people who do and get burned, it’s not that you have not been warned. What concerns me is the layman who knows nothing of Rolex watches and then gets conned into a fake, such is his desire to own said brand.
Last edited by hilly10; 7th October 2018 at 19:26.
Some of the commenters - are acting like Rolex is a drugs company withholding cancer drugs from children
Interesting but stating the obvious really. I dont think watch companies are remotely bothered by speculators or scalpers as if anything, they are keeping their watches at an over inflated price and giving out a perception to the public that they are something special. There are a number of issues here, first watch forums where there are plenty of dealers who clearly do their upmost to keep certain brands in high profile to enable them to move their stock (Hence the numerous Rolex price rise, how much for my Rolex, latest price for sports Rolex, can get a Rolex sports watch in the western world ect threads) Secondly bricks and mortar dealers, the example given in the article all a dealer need do really is say "Well we dont have that model in stock but can I interest you in say a Breguet, Blancpain, Zenith, Piaget...." really you name it but not doing so reinforces the myth of said watch being something remarkable.
Where this can all fall flat I feel is indeed with the ordinary customer. We all work with people the majority of whom have little interest in watches and if they were to go into a dealer and be met with a response of "Well sir, you will have to wait as long as we see fit for you to get your watch in which time the price may increase and when you get it we must remove stickers, withhold warranty card and basically treat you like a child when you hand over to us your several grands worth of savings" They would likely just walk out and go someplace else. Why do I say that? Because while I like watches I have little interest in cars and if I were met with the same scenario when buying a new car thats exactly what I would do. There is also the issue of changing taste, we have seen how watches are getting smaller having previously been popular with 44mm and above in size. What happens in several years time when that big chunky sports watch is no longer the thing to have? A friend of mine has a Daytona an older model and at the time he purchased it I dont remember anyone giving it a second glance to me it looked rather ugly then and Daytona watches still do today.
Reality is the average consumer is not daft and will simply vote with his feet and buy something else. The most popular Rolex watches are the OP and the Date Just which are still easily available so Rolex are not daft enough to cut their nose off to spite their face. They are smart enough to have watches out their to buy while keeping a few back for the dealers to claw at each other to own. Same with Omega and most other brands. I think from a personal point of view it just comes down to "If that watch is not available am I really that bothered?"
Seems like a similar issue customers have with Porsche halo cars ie they advertise them but 90% of customers are not able to buy them
Great read, thanks
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It's indulgent.
Can't buy a Rolex sub immediately at retail?
I feel your pain. I can't buy a flat in Edinburgh for 30k anymore and wagon wheels are no longer the size of a pitbulls head.
Too many people have become obsessed with the value of their watch. Will it hold its value or increase substantially in coming years .They are scared to buy other brands because of depreciation .You should buy a watch because you like it not because of its potential for investment .There are lots of good watches that depreciate badly .Most of what we buy does the same , TV and hifi, computers, cars household furniture etc .
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Just waiting for walkerwek to find this one!!!
The blog was twaddle.
Watches are a commodity and like any other commodity they are subject to the laws of supply and demand and the makers of the said commodity have the legal and moral right to adjust the supply / sales chain to suit themselves.
No one is entitled to a Rolex, but they can buy one in less than a day if they pay the going rate. If no one buys then the price reduces, it's a law that is as old as the hills.
No one is at fault, it is just the way of things.
I think you missed the point of the article. It was not about entitlement to a Rolex. It was about the long term future of the watch industry and the damage firms like Rolex, because of their 'moral right to adjust the supply / sales chain to suit themselves' are doing to the sector.
I think you can trust Rolex to look after themselves and the others will only die along the wayside if nobody is prepared to buy them. They will survive if they give the paying public what they want at the price they are prepared to pay.
Sorry but it was outdated twaddle in the extreme, nothing new was said at all.
Structure drives behaviour.
When companies create such an artificial shortage, speculators are quick to arrive. I've lived in communist Romania, so I have first hand experience with this kind of crap.
Regarding the part I've bolded, I do believe this is what is going on, i.e. people do actually like the Rolexes, Pateks and APs they covet. Part of it is also effective advertising and the supply tricks these companies are playing, but I think the most popular models from these companies are all really easy to like because they're amazing designs.
Though I couldn't give a rats about this, first thing I did was scroll down hoping to find one of Paul's diatribes...
Maybe when he's had his coffee...
If there was damage we'd be able to detect it in financial terms and we cannot.
The long-term future of the industry is more impacted by automation and the growth of devices like the apple watch that it is this non-issue.
Well written article but only relevant to a few SS Sports Rolex and not an industry wide problem as no other models/brands command such desirability.
I agree it's frustrating not being able to obtain 'luxury' watches at retail but it's an argument that just goes round and round in circles and probably only bothers collectors who probably have too many watches anyway.
Last edited by Pv406; 8th October 2018 at 09:54. Reason: Typo
It is what it is. I'd love to be able to be able to walk into an AD and buy a BLRO steel at retail prices but it would be a significant purchase for me and part of what makes me want one is the fact that if for some reason I needed the money in an emergency or did not bond with it and was not wearing it I could sell it without a loss. This is in part down to the scarcity of the model and so the circle is joined.
I suspect the movement towards smartwatches and fitness bands is having quite an impact on certain manufacturers and there is a mini crisis coming that will reset the system somewhat however my guess is that rolex et al will move even further up the price ladder to distance themselves from smartwatches. The current situation indicates that they could increase supply and pretty much double the price and the only people they'd 'hurt' are the scalpers.
Interesting article, thanks for posting. Agree with a lot of it.
It’s a very rare phenomenon to be able to purchase something (can be anything) and for it not to depreciate in value. More so, you then have the opportunity to move it on quick enough should your circumstances change at no loss. So even for buyers who aren’t speculating or scalping, owning a Rolex, on the whole, it can be, depending on your motivation, more of a transient experience than it is one of permanence and commitment.
Last edited by Lovewatches108; 8th October 2018 at 10:42.
One other aspect of all this is the distorted perceptions which it causes. In truth, Rolex sports watches are well-made, highly reliable and durable; but that's all they are...the current market over-values them, and undervalues excellent rivals.
Which is, in itself, an opportunity for the more independently minded buyers. As a simple example, compare the Omega moonwatch (speedy pro) with the Daytona; then look at the prices. Does that make sense?
Last edited by paskinner; 8th October 2018 at 10:53.
I’ve no doubt that people do like Rolex, Patek and the like that are in question, but if the said watches depreciated like all other brands then they would be a lot less popular, everyday there is a new thread “ I want to buy a watch that won’t lose money” we all know the answer as it’s been done to death, if Rolex upped their supply so they became a readily available model and an instant purchase, I’m sure the value would drop considerably fairly quickly.
What I have always maintained...............
Aspirational buyers want high residuals AND immediate availability (it is their right, after all) not understanding that they are hand-in-hand.
If you're buying the one perfect watch to wear forever then yes, but most of us here have a few watches and like to sell the odd one or three to try something new once in while, hopefully something better than we've had before. So like it or not, of course the future value is a consideration, unless you want to gradually progress to having a small collection of broken Timex.
The obsession with resale is odd. I’d have thought that most typical buyers of high end watches are not thinking about selling.
Obviously many on here chop and change but most buy and wear ...
This bit interested me:
“the actual salespeople at stores conspire with these dealers to sell them product immediately when it gets into a store.”
I assume for a kickback.
Common practice or rare?
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This strikes me like shrinkage in supermarkets eg the staff nick more than the customers.
Maybe all of these rolex measures are more aimed at the staff than the customer?
Dunno what all the fuss is about...
Bargain
Rolex is becoming its own commodity, bit like gold and diamonds.
I dont think its common to get burned by a Rolex purchase at Rolex prices, as an average most Rolex has increased in prices and will hold up very well in the event of another 2008..
Just read the article by chance and wanted to share it here. It is indeed quite an annoying practice and I guess dealers holding back the guarantee cards would be a helpful measure to stop the scalping and speculating... of course it doesn't help if the staff is in on it and deals directly with the dealers.
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