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Thread: Longines Ultra Quartz c.1969 Any repairers here ?

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    Longines Ultra Quartz c.1969 Any repairers here ?

    I have been given two Longines Ultra Quartz watches for repair within a week of each other, having never seen one before.
    Bizarre !

    They work on the Bulova tuning fork principle and have a quartz self regulating system. The circuitry is a work of art and they were apparently the first cybernetic quartz watch made.

    They both seem to suffer from the same problem. One also had a broken battery terminal so I soldered on a new silver one.
    The problem appears to be that where the brass centre wheel is riveted to the roller ball bearing post, the centre rivet has worked loose. Friction of the cannon pinion when setting the hands has I presume, made this happen. The result is that there is no friction when setting the hands, and whilst the centre seconds hand turns smoothly like an Accutron, the hour and minute hands only turn a little and stop when the extra pressure of calendar change approaches.

    It has been suggested to me that I use loctite to secure the middle of the centre wheel but I don't think it would hold when the hands are set via the cannon pinion.
    Longines have offered to replace the movement with a modern quartz and fit a side crown. The UQ sets from the back of the case. They are quite rare now too, so I'm not having that !!
    Any ideas how to fix this ?
    Some more photos:


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  2. #2
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Donor watch, not working but with good bits you need?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glamdring View Post
    Donor watch, not working but with good bits you need?
    Yes please !

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    Serious loctite like 2701 is very strong, not sure which one but clock people use loctite over soldering/braising now for new pivots.

    But saying all that I wouldn't be confident in this approach either.

    How was the original rivet formed? And chance or re-riveting?

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    Are you sure it’s not just the fit between the canon pinion and the centre wheel? If you pull the canon pinion how does it look?

    Even if the centre wheel is loose between the rivett and the bearing surely the loose feeling is between the canon pinion and the centre wheel regardless of how the bearing fits to the rivett as the train is stopped and the friction is between the canon pinion and centre wheel when hand setting?

    Or is the rivett what the canon pinion is gripping to?

    Maybe try removing the canon pinion and tightening it and seeing how it feels?

    What a movement though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Are you sure it’s not just the fit between the canon pinion and the centre wheel? If you pull the canon pinion how does it look?

    Even if the centre wheel is loose between the rivett and the bearing surely the loose feeling is between the canon pinion and the centre wheel regardless of how the bearing fits to the rivett as the train is stopped and the friction is between the canon pinion and centre wheel when hand setting?

    Or is the rivett what the canon pinion is gripping to?

    Maybe try removing the canon pinion and tightening it and seeing how it feels?

    What a movement though!
    Thanks for your observations. Yes it is a pretty stunning movement all right !
    The cannon pinion is definitely friction tight on the centre wheel tube. Perhaps it got too tight over time.
    The centre wheel is no longer tightly riveted against the tube of it and I think the tightness of the cannon pinion loosened that rivet. It's looking impossible to get a domed punch down to the rivet because of the roller bearing.
    Meanwhile I have written to Longines again and asked them if they have a solution.
    Not holding my breath on this one !

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  7. #7
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    hmm, maybe I wasn’t following & getting the rivett’s purpose here, sorry.

    So the rivett goes through the centre wheel (which is just a flat wheel?) and the canon pinion is an interference for to the rivett?

    The problem is the canon pinion and rivett are a tight fit and the setting has made the rivett spin inside the centre wheel?

    Is the rivett expands inside the centre bearing to hold it in place and pull tight to the centre wheel? If that’s still tight, could you not press the rivett down (from the train side) and if it’s tight in the bearing it should pull up against and hold the centre wheel?

    Maybe like you say the canon pinion to rivett is too tight (maybe from years of it not being used enough. Might be worth a try, once you’ve done that as long as you lubricate the canon pinion to rivett and get it less friction than the bearing fit it should be the first part to slip rather than the centre wheel to rivett slip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    hmm, maybe I wasn’t following & getting the rivett’s purpose here, sorry.

    So the rivett goes through the centre wheel (which is just a flat wheel?) and the canon pinion is an interference for to the rivett?

    The problem is the canon pinion and rivett are a tight fit and the setting has made the rivett spin inside the centre wheel?

    Is the rivett expands inside the centre bearing to hold it in place and pull tight to the centre wheel? If that’s still tight, could you not press the rivett down (from the train side) and if it’s tight in the bearing it should pull up against and hold the centre wheel?

    Maybe like you say the canon pinion to rivett is too tight (maybe from years of it not being used enough. Might be worth a try, once you’ve done that as long as you lubricate the canon pinion to rivett and get it less friction than the bearing fit it should be the first part to slip rather than the centre wheel to rivett slip?
    Exactly eight. The cannon pinion friction is so much that it loosened the centre wheel. So now the centre wheel spins freely and the cannon pinion and centre wheel tube move without the brass part of the centre wheel. This is why the hour and minute hand don't move all the time.
    I can't see a way to tighten the rivet with a punch.
    It really needs a whole new centre wheel assembly and one where the cannon pinion is not too tightly fitted.

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    Clean, acid flux, heat then run a tiny bit of solder in the joint? Whether that's doable in practice I don't know, I expect getting the joint clean enough would be the hardest part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    Clean, acid flux, heat then run a tiny bit of solder in the joint? Whether that's doable in practice I don't know, I expect getting the joint clean enough would be the hardest part.
    Thanks Duncan, but that's virtually impossible in this case. The solder won't adhere to steel and even though I have a micro soldering iron for repairing quartz watch circuits from the 70s, the heat would not concentrate enough.
    I reckon it's max strength loctite, somehow rivet the wheel or a replacement part which will mean knees scraped at Longines factory next time I'm there. Assuming they even have one !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webwatchmaker View Post
    Thanks Duncan, but that's virtually impossible in this case. The solder won't adhere to steel and even though I have a micro soldering iron for repairing quartz watch circuits from the 70s, the heat would not concentrate enough.
    I reckon it's max strength loctite, somehow rivet the wheel or a replacement part which will mean knees scraped at Longines factory next time I'm there. Assuming they even have one !!

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    Be interested to know the outcome a movement I have never seen.

  12. #12
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Paul, 'Silver Hawk' on here has worked on them before, I don't know to what degree of success! He posted years ago on the frustrations of working on them.
    Might be worth a PM though.
    http://electric-watches.co.uk/makers...-ultra-quartz/
    Cheers..
    Jase

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Paul, 'Silver Hawk' on here has worked on them before, I don't know to what degree of success! He posted years ago on the frustrations of working on them.
    Might be worth a PM though.
    http://electric-watches.co.uk/makers...-ultra-quartz/
    Thanks Jason,
    He was my first port of call and describes the issue I'm having.
    I emailed him a few days ago but no reply as yet.
    B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webwatchmaker View Post
    Thanks Jason,
    He was my first port of call and describes the issue I'm having.
    I emailed him a few days ago but no reply as yet.
    B.

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    He's too busy playing with leaky old motorbikes these days maybe , Ill text him for you.
    Cheers..
    Jase

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    He's too busy playing with leaky old motorbikes these days maybe , Ill text him for you.
    Haha! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    He's too busy playing with leaky old motorbikes these days maybe , Ill text him for you.
    Dear Jason,
    I didn't hear back from him yet.
    I will try Loctite in the mean time although I have had an offer from Longines to at least look at the problem.
    B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    He's too busy playing with leaky old motorbikes these days maybe , Ill text him for you.
    Nice bikes though


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahiti View Post
    Nice bikes though


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    He's got some crackers, a Matchless Silver Hawk and Ariel Square Four are the two I remember but he had five vintage steeds, all in beautiful condition in his garage before the house move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    He's got some crackers, a Matchless Silver Hawk and Ariel Square Four are the two I remember but he had five vintage steeds, all in beautiful condition in his garage before the house move.
    Perhaps you could be polite enough to start your own thread about motorbikes.
    This is an enquiry about the Longines Ultra Quartz !


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    Was I impolite Brendan? Apologies, I thought you'd gone as far as practicable with the Ultra Quartz enquiry with your loctite fix and offer from Longines to look at the problem. Consider me told off!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    Was I impolite Brendan? Apologies, I thought you'd gone as far as practicable with the Ultra Quartz enquiry with your loctite fix and offer from Longines to look at the problem. Consider me told off!
    No telling off Duncan !
    I will update when I can.

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    Last edited by Webwatchmaker; 19th November 2018 at 21:48.

  22. #22
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    Longines don't have the parts for the Ultraquartz. Very disappointing.

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