With the amount of traffic and the variable speed limits on most of the motorways I travel on you can’t help but undertake. I stay in either the first or second lane switching between them with the traffic flow and if somebody in the next lane is tootling along at 45 there’s no way I’m switching to the third lane to just get past.
The roads may be busy when you travel, but for a lot of us they're actually very quiet, bar the chuggers. It's fairly common for traffic to be smoothly flowing at 90.Originally Posted by walkerwek1958
To be honest it's not even the need to race anywhere that is the frustration for many drivers, but rather the fact that an entire lane is blocked (and therefore your own progress and the ability to use the middle lane yourself is restricted).
I would also add to this thread the drivers who insist on driving at 50 on dual carriageways, forcing HGV's to tediously pass them at 56.
Indeed - Funny how some see the suggestion of slightly exceeding (or even meeting!) the speed limit as 'aggressive' and yet seemingly condone lousy lane discipline...
If people want to go slower on the motorway, that's fine (sometimes even essential), but it's not acceptable for them to sit in the middle (or even outside, as I've seen a few times recently) lane doing it, never venturing into the left hand lane where they belong (according to the Highway Code!).
The roads would undoubtedly be a nicer place to be if everyone gave a bit more consideration to other road users, but that doesn't mean ONLY those who tailgate and flash, but also those who either pay no attention to their driving or think they've a divine right to sit in any lane they like as long as their not exceeding 70MPH...
M
Undertaking is far more dangerous than sitting in the middle lane. I don't do either, but am happy to proceed to the outside to pass if I have to, I'd even wait for a minute to allow someone to realise they're in the wrong lane and move over.
I've seen very misses caused by people undertaking!
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What do you do if the dawdler is in the OUTSIDE lane? Sit there at 50?
This does sound a bit like the 'speed kills' argument.
Germans drive at 120MPH regularly (I did when I lived there, 20 years ago, and did so last year on a visit) and they don't have a dramatically high accident rate (although they do have some massive pile ups on the autobahns at times). By extension, you should reintroduce the man with the red flag for ultimate safety, but I hope no-one's really advocating that.
Equally, the Americans seem to be able to overtake both sides (I must admit, it's quite disconcerting at first!) without chaos ensuing - So, presumably, so could far more strenuously trained and examined UK drivers if it was made legal.
So, neither driving fast or passing on the inside is inherently dangerous, it's just that we're not used to them.
Given that the police show near zero interest in pulling over middle lane cruisers (I once flashed an unmarked police car for doing 55MPH in the outside lane of the M3!), perhaps now is the time to think about freeing up the available lanes instead of spending billions building even more that many will studiously avoid...
M
Yep at a safe distance, probably flash my lights so that they know I'm there.
This has happened on a number of occasions, rarely more than a brief inconvenience.
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You've been luckier than most then, if that universally works!
M
Some times it wakes them up when you overtake them and they usually speed up to the same speed as the overtaking vehicle. One on the M62 realised I was passing accelerated away straight into line of cones shouldn’t have been on his phone.
Today I had the delights of an eejit who decided to leave the M25 from the outside lane at the last minute, he came across the front of me very close on the brakes which activated the emergency brakes on the wagon which is a first for me 44 ton stops pretty quickly when it thinks it’s going to crash. A couple of hundred quid worth of load damage but that’s better than a couple of deaths and the road closed for a few hours.
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Too many of these ...
Middle Lane Muppets
I spend too much time on UK motorways and see them far too often tootling along with no idea.
And when you do decide to pass them (legally on the outside) they accelerate.
“Muppets !’’
z
Is that based on research or just your observation? I don't think it's possible to make that judgement as it depends on so many other factors. Having to go from lane 1 to 3 and back to 1 to go round an idiot who doesn't need to be in lane 2 is not risk-free. It's a forced '4 lane change' manoeuvre which creates 4 opportunities to cause a lane-change related accident.
As has been noted, undertaking in certain situations is 'permitted' by the Highway Code. (Obviously weaving in and out of traffic isn't.) I don't think sitting in lane 2 with no regard for others is safe and, as far as I know, is never within teh HC.
I was coming up the m20 one Sunday evening, sat in the left lane (at 70mph) of an unusually deserted motorway. At two consecutive junctions as I approached I watched cars join the motorway and move straight into the middle lane!
They’d set their ‘chugging’ speed to 60mph so I’m approaching in the inside lane thinking they should see me and move over realising they’re out there like an idiot... nope, blinkers on chugging away.
I made a point of going into the fast lane and overtaking them then indicating right back over to the inside lane once I passed them so they’d get the hint... nope, still chugging!
I see it all the time on busy motorways but it was really something special on a deserted motorway watching them joining and just move straight into the middle lane.
Some people are just in their own little world, scary really as it just shows such a lack of awareness.
Boys will be boys. This thread was doomed from the start. There are almost as many preferred driving styles in TZ-UK as there are members! Discussing any "proper" way to drive here is silly and fruitless.
Every state has different laws but I think generally yes, its illegal. Everyone does it though. But you wouldn't do it in front of a police car.
Just my observations, I've never seen any research on it.
Undertaking in congested situations is permitted in the highway code so I wasn't referring to that, perhaps I should have been more specific.
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Interesting - Wikipedia says "On roads with four or more lanes (including divided highways), vehicles may pass to the left or to the right of slower vehicles as long as the maneuver can be completed safely.", but I know better than to trust it implicitly.
I must admit, in a journey in very heavy traffic near LA, people were constantly passing a Police car on both sides, but that may be seen as simply the flow of traffic changing from lane to lane.
M
Whilst not over or undertaking, I particularly enjoy drivers who can’t keep a constant speed or who vary dramatically.
I don’t like cruise control, so set my speed limit to a speed I’m comfortable with as my maximum, and I pretty much stay at that speed.
A couple of driver types become apparent doing this.
Group 1 who as you appear alongside to overtake increase their speed to match yours, so you remain by their side despite travelling 10mph or so quicker than them, only seconds ago. Some of this group just can stop themselves - if I press the button to add 1mph increments to my speed, they stay by my side. Until such point they realise, panic and come off the throttle, suddenly visible in the door mirrors as the slow down.
Group 2 who seem to have only 2 throttle settings. Fully open or fully closed. Fly past you at stupid speed, hammer the brakes on to stop hitting the car that has always been in front of them, only to pull in a couple of miles ahead, bumble along at 60 before then reapplying maximum power and trying to head butt the horizon once again. Repeat until one of you gets to your respective junction and exits.
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I stand corrected!
For all these years I've thought it was illegal but I've done it anyway!
I have found moving to Shetland resolved my driving woes. I must have spent half my life on the M23-M25-M3-M4-M40-M1-M11-M18. In Shetland there are no motorways, dual carriageways, yellow box junctions, unmanned level crossings, low bridges, and there are only 6 roundabouts. A trafiic jam is fifteen people wanting to use a roundabout at the same time. Shetland drivers on on the whole curtious, but they don't like letting people out of side junctions, even the bus out of the bus station, even though the bus is going in the opposite direction. The car would rather park in front of the bus. It could of course be a half-wit driving the car. Nevertheless, I have decided to mostly use the bus.
Whilst on the mainland many years ago I was followed from just north of London on the M1 all the way to Leeds by a Vauxhall Frontera, which did the entire journey in the middle lane. I was driving a Skoda 120 LSE, and whilst the Frontera could just outpace me along the flats, he could keep up with us on the hilss. I think that he saw the lane system as giving him status. I was in the inside lane with the riff raff, whilst he was in the middle class middle lane.
'Smart' Motorways and the rise of hi-tech speed camera use only make things worse. Roads are clogged with nervous nellies who dread exceeding the constantly changing limits set by the overhead gantries. The more 'aware' motorist takes note of where the cameras are sited as only a few gantries have the cameras. Hence people are undertaking/nipping in and out of lanes to try and avoid the braking-bumblers who are too thick to realise it's only those big yellow things are actually cameras.
The most effective are the average speed sections. There are a few on A roads in Birmingham and everybody sticks rigidly so it's easy to spot the crims and jackers ignoring the limit.
On some of the gantries on the M25 they are on every lane, and they are not all yellow.
Also, the newer speed cameras aren't always obvious: https://www.speedcamerasuk.com/hadecs-3.htm
Interesting, I wonder how many are switched on.
I always drive past these at 85-90 on the m25 and have done so all year.
I think that they are only active when the speed restrictions are on, but I don't have any facts to back that up. Theoretically, they could be active at any time.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I think this would solve all issues on the road. Before setting out on any journey a form should be submitted declaring income (with recent pay and bank slip), postcode (make sure you come from a suitable area, car make, trim level and age. From this it can be determined which lane you are allowed to use from your social standing. Problem solved
I remember one of the young team at work complaining that someone had undertook him on the motorway that morning despite the fact he was doing 70mph in the "fast lane". He seemed to be under the impression that as long as you were doing 70mph you were fine to just sit in that lane cause "it's the fast lane int'it?".
judging by our roads I don't think he's the only person that thinks that's how motorways work.
We're not that advanced in the midlands
I think that you'll find that you are.
I think that every gantry with variable speed signs, is also equipped with speed cameras, which may be of the average speed kind.
No, they aren't. On the m5/m6/m42 there are cameras at certain gantries, but less than 1 in 4. And they aren't average speed.
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Two days ago, heading north on the M6.......
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3lkl8dlz6i....MOV-.avi?dl=0...........
I was doing around 65-70mph
That's just an absurd manoeuvre.
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Have you sent that to the police ?
Pete
What a criminally dangerous driver. Get him (presumably a him) reported:
https://www.nextbase.com/en-gb/natio...safety-portal/
Someone on another forum earlier this year re a similar speed camera debate posted "Speeders should be hung"
I replied; "I'm a speeder and I'm hung"
That is what I started this thread about, this type of driving is now the norm on the M25
Im on the M25 most days
Its so common place I have learnt to spot most of them coming and ready myself for avoiding action if needed. I like driving with the top down for the additional visibility.
You can report that but you must be prepared to go to court to testify if asked. Totally idiotic driving.
In Essex if you try to report a driver the police ask if you have any independent witnesses, when you say no they tell you to email the casualty reduction unit, you won’t hear from them again.
That's stupid, your webcam is the witness which will be date stamped. Sounds like they can't be arsed.
Yep
Maybe not. A video is easily modified, and I doubt if footage from an unregulated dash cam is admissible in court without some kind of corroboration
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And yes, I doubt if they can be arsed looking through the thousands of videos sent in by affronted drivers who feel they’ve been wronged in some way.
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Round our way, the "casualty reduction partnership" is what they used to call the "speed camera partnership". Change of name but they don't do anything but speed cameras.
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