Reply With QuoteWith the amount of idiots who insist on cruising in the middle and outside lanes, it’s not surprising undertaking is becoming more common.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I am spending quite a bit of time driving about at the moment, M25, M1, M40, undertaking seems to have become the norm, I have to pay special attention to the left mirror when pulling in as some idiot is on the inside travelling significantly faster than me. The government are currently running a campaign about tailgating yet without fail when you leave a safe gap someone undertakes you and forces their way into it. It seems that lane discipline is disappearing completely, I don't think I'm exaggerating, I wonder if our government are soon going to say do what you like, as in America.
With the amount of idiots who insist on cruising in the middle and outside lanes, it’s not surprising undertaking is becoming more common.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Could'nt agree more. I've noticed that mini cab drivers seem to be the main culprits.Originally Posted by lughugger
I have lost count of the number of mini cabs that I have seen dawdling along at 50mph in the middle lane recently.
I thought this was going to be a thread about a career choice
^^^ This
I often undertake at national speed limit because the middle lane is blocked with chuggers.
If it was this thread would be dead and buried by now...
People on the M25 do seem to migrate to lanes 3 & 4 regardless if they're actually overtaking anything, quite often come across people sat blindly out there or see people join and pull straight across 3 empty lanes to lane 4 and sit in a huge queue all constantly on & off the brakes.
Can't help but wonder how much congestion would be cured if we adopted the American approach of passing in any lane. Would certainly sort out the self professed traffic police and other ignorant drivers who block the overtaking lanes, although they'd probably just migrate to swerving back across to cut people off who are going faster than they deem appropriate.
Even though you know its wrong and dangerous? If the ‘chuggers’ to which you refer are unaware of which lane they should be in, there’s every chance they’ll move over without warning.........I’ve seen it happen.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, if you cause an accident by undertaking you’re the one in trouble!
Lack of Police vehicles are turning our motorways into a free for all, but allowing your own driving standards to drop isn’t a good idea.
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 25th September 2018 at 10:20.
By that token, the person chugging in the middle lane might suddenly decide to move right if I'm overtaking so I'll stick with what I'm doing. I'm always hyper aware and ready for an idiot to make an idiotic manoeuvre, regardless.
What I won't do is bumble along in the outside two lanes when the inside lane is completely free of traffic.
I think we have a middle lane chugger in our midst. Lol.
Nail on head.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
how do you define Bumbling along?
I'm talking sitting in the overtaking lane at 80 waiting for whatever is in front to maybe sort itself out, and cars are going past on the left at 20-30mph more.
I'll pass on the left with care dependent on the traffic conditions, but not aggressively undertake. As I understand it, undertaking comprises changing lane, passing, and then moving back to the original lane again.
From the Highway Code website:
"Overtaking on the nearside (left) is legally acceptable if you are driving on a multi-lane carriageway in congested conditions, and the lane to the left is moving at a faster speed than lanes to the right. In these circumstances overtaking on the left is permissible although extra caution is needed for an awareness of other vehicles moving to the faster lane on the left".
So people are undertaking you at 120mph? That is madness and they need taking off the road.
You mentioned M25, M1 and M40. The M25 is always blocked with chuggers in the middle lanes doing 60-70. The inside lane is invariably entirely free of traffic so I'll use that lane until I need to overtake, which of course then necessitates a sweeping move across two lanes because of the chuggers.
I certainly do not blast past people on the inside lane while doing 120mph. I often stick to 70 on the M25 as well because of all the speed cameras. Plus, I usually have my family in the car and would rather not kill them in a crash.
It's hard to undertake and overtaking car. So if you're regularly being undertaken, you're probably not overtaking - and as such in the wrong lane.
I don't drive that much due to being away about half the year but I'm shocked at the deterioration in standards on the roads. There does appear to be a lot more people sitting in the middle lanes even with the introduction of more 4 lane motorways. Its not like its young drivers either but seems to be middle aged people who've probably been driving for years. Is it just laziness, ignorance? I tend to approach them, indicated, move over two or three lanes (if safe to do so), pass them and then indicate and move back to the furthest lane on the left. This more often than not seems to wake up the other driver and they then move left as well. I honestly think people these days can't handle driving distance and just seem to switch off to their surroundings. I blame auto gear boxes, air con, electric windows and comfy seats. One thing that does wind me up more is people on dual carriageways that will sit in the right hand lane for 5 miles at 45mph because they'll eventually be turning right at the next roundabout. Pigging move and get in the appropriate lane on approaching the roundabout not in the county before!
I was just about to post that myself.
There's a difference between passing to the left and aggressively 'undertaking'. I'll happily pass someone on their left hand side (with extra caution) if I happen to be going faster than them. If someone steams up to you from behind, swerves left, then cuts back right taking a micron or two of paint off your front corner, it wasn't me.
Final nail in the coffin?
It appears that a number of police authorities are now encouraging us to upload dash cam footage of "dangerous" driving. Assuming that they have sufficient staff to look at these clips, this may start to act as a deterrent for a number of motorway driving offences.
Pete
I’ll happily pass on the left provided I’m in that lane to begin with, in line with the highway code.
The amount of times I’ve been aggressively undertaken when signalling to move left though…
I'll tell you when I sit in the middle lane regardless, going up the M1 between Loughborough and Nottingham. The inside lane is like a cart track. I'm not beating my car to death hitting massive potholes for anyone.
I hate that expression. Let’s leave it to those working in the funeral trade.
In Malta we routinely find idiots bimbling along on the outside lanes of our dual carriageways. We overtake on the inside. Job done.
Mrs Draft gets upset if I pursue a similar strategy when driving in the UK, but to be fair I rarely get behind the wheel there these days.
I occasionally undertake people on the motorway when there's at least one lane between them and me and they're farting along in the outside lane.
The thing I find a lot more worrying is the number of people who wait for a gap (of any size) and then swerve into it, turning on their indicator as they do, since that makes it all ok. That means instead of indicating and waiting for a safe gap (or someone to create a gap for them), they take it anyway, generally do so dangerously and make you slow down.
I regularly play 'will they or won't they' with my wife on the motorway, I tend to get more right, probably because I look at people's body language - how the car is positioned and if they're looking in their mirrors.
"A man of little significance"
Thanks for posting that info. It clarifies the situation nicely.
when pulling in from whatever lane you are in, you glance in the mirror, indicate, if there is nothing there you move, you don't expect to have to keep looking just in case some idiot steams past on the inside. they should either dish out massive penalties or make it legal, that way we would know exactly what to do.
I just came down the A12 from Chelmsford and watched a bloke in a Merc go down the inside, down a slip road and then at the last minute pull acroos four lanes of traffic back into the fast lane, all at fairly high speed. its becoming normal.
As usual, without any policing of the roads it becomes a bit of a free for all. With no one in authority watching, there is no consequence for driving like a spanner any more. Speed cameras only cover one element of bad driving, and I still see plenty of near misses on the M62 at slower speeds when the restrictions are on.
Also becoming the norm seems to be an inability to negotiate a bend without crossing the central white line. I know cars are wider now than when the roads were first built, but if they can't get a Vauxhall Corsa through a bend without needing part of my side of the road then they need to take their test again. Or slow down a bit.
Thanks for this, I wasn’t aware of this. Every days a school day eh.
I'm starting to think we should legalise overtaking in whichever lane is free, it's far from ideal, but getting drivers to keep left unless overtaking is becoming scarce, I think the advent of four+ lane highways has further confused some drivers who seem insistent on sitting in lanes 3 & 4 whilst the nearside lanes a largely free of traffic.
I do not go out of my way to undertake, but do recall that if traffic is moving in queues in the outside lanes it is permitted to overtake on the nearside; further to this it is my understanding that you should not move left with the specific purpose of overtaking, but after overtaking you should always return to the left lane if clear to do so.
Thus I try and keep left at all times unless overtaking slower traffic, I tend now to bumble along at the legal limit with the cruise control activated.
I'd really rather not have overtaking in all lanes, but unless drivers follow the Highway Code religiously this slightly ad hoc approach may be needed to help ease congestion. It's a real lose-lose scenario I'm sure. I understand from the Gov.uk web site that fines have now been introduced for people not adhering to the keep left rule and also overhead gantries are advising drivers to keep left, but I cannot recall the last time I saw a Highway Police Officer patrolling the Motorways and Trunk Roads in the UK.
I know us Brit's always have a laugh at Italian drivers but on the few times I have driven in Italy I actually found it refreshing how enthusiastically they pull out and back in again overtaking on dual carriageways, they actually really adhere to their keep right rules and only sit in the outside lane for the minimum time whilst overtaking. I drove all around the South of Italy and found this to be the case on all roads I drove and it was similar going from Venice to Verona in the North too. Thus I have to tip my hat to those crazy Italians.
I don't envy anyone who has to drive UK roads on a regular basis. Be safe out there!
Was hoping I wasn't going to have to be the first to say this... But this is the fact of the matter. Other drivers in the wrong lane - what are people supposed to do if you're in an overtaking lane but not overtaking? Bring the flow of traffic to a halt, or carry on as best they can despite you?
The middle lane chugger is breaking the law and so are you. In fact undertaking can be construed as 'dangerous driving'. It is a highly dangerous practice especially as you say, at the national speed limit. Sorry but you should either hold back or manouver over to the fast lane.
Tailgaiting too is illegal. I know that North Yorkshire police are cracking down on these illegal manouvers, and about time. Unforunately, there are not enough Road Traffic police to stop this idiotic driving.
they should make it the same as America where you can pass either side, found it much more enjoyable. but also made me concentrate more
Which is the fast lane?
could be lane2/3/4/5 we know what he meant
I don't do it often because of (a) the uncertainty how the Police interpret the Highway Code section quoted and (b) the likelihood of someone stupid enough to be "Lane 2" hogging suddenly pulling into Lane 1. It just really irritates me that it's my 'job' to go from Lane 1 to 3 to overtake and back to Lane 1 to get past just because some idiot (and there are dozens of them) can't be bothered to drive with a little consideration for others.
I've less of an issue on 4 lane sections where these cretins often take their place in Lane 3 when 1 and 2 are empty.
From what I've seen, the standard of Motorway driving in the North West is reasonably good, and I can safely pass in the appropriate lane most of the time.
You obviously don't drive on the M62 at the same time as me then! I don't think I ever go on a short motorway trip without seeing at least one driver who doesn't understand lane discipline.
I've found that nobody seems to pay attention to their mirrors either. MLH's don't respond to any amount of flashing of the headlights or honking of the horn either. So your only choice is to be slowed down by the dense pillocks until a sympathiser in the next lane allows you in, and you can cruise past, hoping deep in your heart that there's an opportunity to flip them the bird.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Welcome to my world, in which most people don’t even look when entering roundabouts, the amount of times I see the inside 2 lanes empty and the outside 2 nose to tail slower is astonishing. I undertake every day because there is a distinct lack of understanding of how the roads work. I would make the outside lane wagons only that would make people have to think.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
If the 'chuggers' are doing 60-70 why do you feel the need to overtake/undertake? Is it really that important to get where you're going a couple of minutes earlier and travel faster to do so?
If the 'chuggers' were doing 40 I could understand the frustration, but at 60-70 they're hardly failing to make progress, are they?
Roads are busy, everyone's trying to use them, everyone's part of the problem. Once you make the decision not to race around as quickly as possible driving becomes a whole lot more relaxing, it's all about breaking out of the 'rush rush rush' mindset.
Too many folks driving like knobheads thesedays, rushing around doesn`t save significant time. The days of being able to drive fast and get to places significantly quicker are long gone, back in the late 70s it was possible and I did it myself, thesedays its an exercise in futility to try.
With that attitude you need to ask yourself some serious questions, you're the one who doesn't sound so bright!
As to classing folks as 'dense pillocks', you make yourself sound small-minded and judgemental. The 'dense pillocks' might be significantly brighter than you.....but maybe driving isn`t their strongest suit.
It's all about transport and getting from A to B safely in a timely manner, it isn`t Wacky Races!
Frankly I can`t do with the belligerent attitude displayed by many drivers, it's primarily a male disease and it doesn`t cast our gender in a good light. Serve you right if one of the 'dense pillocks' you condemn smacked you in the gob for being so aggressive.....it happens and sometimes people deserve it!
Roads would seem a lot less busy and nicer to use if people drove how the highway code makes clear and used all the lanes. It's basically reducing the usable road space by 3-4 times. Do any long journey in Canada or America (outside of busy cities anyway) and it's so much more relaxing to cover long distances.
Police do also pull people for swerving across lanes so need to be careful of you're in lane one approaching a mlm then need to either stay where you and take your chances are or move out nice and early.
You need to try the "Northern Distributor Route" around Norwich. Two lane roads running at 70MPH with three lane roundabouts. The nearside lanes of the roundabouts come off at about 80 degrees, so you have to slow down to silly slow to enter that lane. As roundabouts have been few and far between here, the locals are in turmoil!
https://www.google.com/search?q=yout...ient=firefox-b
Enter at your peril!
Oh dont start me. 20+ years driving in the USA and I've never got used to it.
The American way is to plunge onto the freeway and get immediately into a middle lane, hit cruise control and just stay there. no matter what. There's no lane discipline at all even though there are laws against undertaking. They dont use turn signals either. Or mirrors. They usually keep pretty good spacing though so to make progress you have to weave in and out.
Its all a hangover from the days when everybody drove massive behemoth land yachts with awful brakes.
Sorry for the rant.
It's not really got better or worse over the last 5 yrs imo.
The problem is the typical lack of lane discipline of British drivers, combined with a common attitude of "I'm doing 70, why should anyone dare feel the need to go beyond this speed, I shall now self police the roads by sitting in the 'FAST' lane"
With any luck, allowing learners to actually get some experience of motorway driving will help long term.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
I drive 120 miles of M25 on 3 or 4 days a week. I also happily and routinely pass the on the left. I also know that I'm not breaking any laws because my lane is going faster than the ones on my right.
It's often the case that the supposed lane order is completely reversed, and find the nearside lane fastest, and each offside lane progressively slower.
Chuggers are the problem because they force ill-informed drivers to cross various lanes to squeeze to the right when in fact they should actually just overtake on the left if the left is quicker.
With any luck, allowing learners to actually get some experience of motorway driving will help long term.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
^^^^
Totally agree, hopefully letting the learner drivers learn on motorways will educate more than just learners.
Completely agree, spent last year doing the M25 from the M4 to St Albans & normally didn’t use the outside lanes for the very reasons you mention.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is it true that 'undertaking' is illegal in the States? I believed it was legal and common practice.
M
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Don’t know if it’s legal. But a few years ago when I was in Florida it was definitely common practice
I drove in the US (Memphis) daily for six months. My natural lane was the middle or lanes two and three. This seemed the choice for drivers that were happy to plod along nicely. All other drivers that wanted to go a little quicker were predominantly in lanes one and three or one and four respectibly. That seemed the norm for the whole time I was there.
Posting Permissions