Had to get some top-ups for the first time on my R9T since I bought it and stumbled unwittingly into the rabbit warren of engine oil recommendations on internet forums...
I’ve been here before, notably when trying to track down some SAE30 for my 1960s Suffolk Super Colt mower.
I’ve used the recommended Castrol Edge 10/60 in my M6 since I bought it based on nothing other than the manufacturer’s recommendation and the fear of a big bill should the V10 go bang at any point. At the last service alone the oil ran in at nearly £200 for the 9 litres required.
Chatting to an older guy in the bike shop today who told me he ran all his bikes over the years on 10/40 from the supermarket.
I ended up doing the same on my Suffolk mower when I serviced it last year, and it’s run fine all season.
In the bike shop I went for the straight manufacturer’s recommendation of semi-synthetic 15/50, rather than follow the old sage’s advice. I came home and read on one of the BMW forums that anything from 10/40 up to the 10/60 that I had 4 litres of sitting around was being used. Americans seem particular passionate about their chosen viscosity.
I suppose it depends on your attitude to the engine you put it in, but semi-synthetic, synthetic, with additives, without, what do you use for what application?
Or is 10/40 the answer to any oil-based question?
I seem to recall that the friction modifiers in some car oils can damage wet clutches on bikes but if that's unlikely to be an issue then there is no reason not to use car oil, I also heard that motorcycle gearboxes can damage the long chains on molecules that form synthentic oils but I dont believe this is true https://www.oildepot.ca/interesting-...utch-problems/
Personally I always use a good quality synthetic of the correct grade , 60w is really thick oil most modern stuff is like water
I was talking to one of my customers just last week and he runs all his racing bikes on 10-40.
He said the engines run better on it.
The mobile mechanic who fixes my cars recommended 10-40 semi synthetic from Home bargains
£9 for 4.5 litres
I always go with the manufacturers recommended oil specification for anything vaguely new or under warranty, but I shop around to get the best price as they vary enormously. Amazon do a very good deal occasionally for the VAG spec oil I need for our T6 Transporter.
Pete
I wince at the price of oil thesedays; fortunately my modern cars don`t use any between service (or only small amounts) but it's a different story with classic cars, with engines that use far more oil owing to their designs. Standard advice is to use what the manufacturers stipulated back in the days when the cars were current, so I put 20/50 in my MGB. However, if the modern synthetics had been available in the past, what would the manufacturers have recommended?
There are two aspects, one is the viscosity and the second is the additives. The fact that an oil is synthetic should mean it doesn`t break down and degrade as quickly but it doesn`t necessarily make it a better lubricant....although it will be after 15000 miles of hard motoring if compared to a mineral oil! The additive package used will be different, but finding information on that isn`t easy.
Oil pressure is another factor, a lower viscosity synthetic oil may show lower pressure but the flow of oil to the important places is likely to be greater, and that's what matters. However, most people find it reassuring to see a gauge reading a high figure even though the actual flow of oil to the bearing will be lower owing to the higher viscosity!
In the absence of better advice, and despite my gut feeling that modern synthetics should be better, I`d always go with the manufacturer's recommendation....even if that was made a few decades ago! Not so with watches, it makes overwhelming sense to use the synthetic stuff thesedays.
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 23rd September 2018 at 17:29.
I always use the recommended oil for my bike (Ducati Multistrada) - Shell Advance Ultra 4T 15w-50 synthetic.
I appreciate the risk might be low but, for me, the saving of a few quid on oil isn't worth the risk that a cheaper oil might cause some extremely costly damage.
I use castrol GTX part synthetic 10w 40 in my 60 year old colt so I guess 5w 30 if you can get it but otherwise YesOriginally Posted by j0hnbarker
B
What does the manufacturer specify to put in it ?
Is there any reason to deviate from that ?
As long as it has brand/model specific approval then just go for your favourite brand.
Budget non-approved oil is not a great economy decision IMHO.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
An oil company rep once told me to use cheap oil of the correct grade and change it more often. Not sure if it's good advice or not. I've always changed it once a year in all my bikes and cars regardless of mileage. Never had any oil related problems.
It always amazes me how people will spend thousands of pounds on a car/bike with a complex engine powering it and then try to deviate from the specific grade of oil that the engine designers decided apon to save a couple of quid a litre.
I run a high mileage SEAT Ibiza. I follow the OEM specifications and buy the cheapest fully synthetic oil that meets the grade and VAG specifications, normal paying about £15 to 18 from euro car parts or similar for 5L. Then I change it at 12-15k. That seems to me better than buying mobil 1 or searching for green German Castrol and running it 5k longer.
I'm lucky, all 4 vehicles take 10-40.
Semi synthetic is best for me because the car is 21-years old, and wasn't designed for fully synthetic.
The annual oil change regime goes though 6+5+3+1-litres of oil = 15-litres in total.
I used to get 20-litre drums for £2.50p per litre - but the home bargains 10w40 is £2/litre, and saves all the faff of decanting from a 20-litre drum.
I don't understand this idea that a car wasn't designed for fully synthetic.
It's a Rover mini
They were designed in the mid 1950's, and sold from 1959 onwards.
Some engines don't need expensive oil.
Edit: From wikipedia.
Synthetic oil is used as a substitute for petroleum-refined oils when operating in extreme temperature
Aircraft jet engines, for example, require the use of synthetic oils, whereas aircraft piston engines do not
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil
I suppose this is similar to the winter tyres debate.
Some people risk assess and cover all the bases by paying twice as much for fully synthetic, some don't.
In older engines, the fully synthetic can get past the rings and cause problems.
That's why Honda motorbikes use a break-in oil to seat the rings on new engines, then recommend fully synthetic once the engine is bedded in.
Last edited by Reeny; 24th September 2018 at 11:39.
Yes I don't understand if it's due to economy or an engineering reason. Seems like a bit of both in your view?
I think I'd save a couple of quid using semi synthetic rather than fully. Not half price, more like 10-20% less.
My mate rebuilt his 1970's Kawasaki Z1000 engine and couldn't get it to run right (misfiring & burning oil)
He had mistakenly used fully synthetic oil immediately after the rebuild, thinking he was doing the right thing by using the best oil available on an expensive engine build, including new piston rings.
Once he realised and swapped it back to mineral oil for the break-in it was OK, and ran like a dream. He uses semi synthetic now on everything he owns.
He is a car mechanic with 35-years experience, and owns several older vehicles.
Turbo charged engines or high performance engines may be different, but a 1997 Rover 1275 A-series engined Mini will not benefit from oil designed for turbo-charged high performance cars.
The 2.8 turbo diesel motorhome has an eye watering 6-litre sump - so that's getting semi synthetic as well (due to cost).
So yes - semi will avoid potential problems on older engines, and £2/litre is much cheaper than Castrol Magnitec and Mobil-1
Last edited by Reeny; 24th September 2018 at 12:03.
I used to build and drag race Z1/Z1000 bikes and that was my experience as well , I tried Mobil 1 10w40 and after one race meeting all the cam bearings had picked up , swapped back to Kendall GT-1 mineral and never had the same issue again
The mini has done 150,000 miles on the original engine.
The cylinder head has wore out the exhaust valves twice, and had new valve guides fitted at 145,000 miles.
Otherwise it is still going strong on the original motor, and used every weekday for commuting by MrsR.
Semi synthetic changed every year is good enough for me.
I was shocked when pricing some top-up oil for my THP 1.6 buzz-box.
Total Quartz Ineo First 0w30 Fully Synthetic Motor Oil. £18 per litre from Peugeot
Main dealer prices for oil are always high, you can buy that oil on Amazon for much less
£27 for 5 litres from Opie Oils (no affiliation).
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Just respect oil ratings from manufacturers. They are often there to protect the DPF, GPF or cat from ash/ sulpfer content.
Used to use miller's 20w50 in my 1275. Apparently it was designed for minis with the engine oil also lubricating the gear box.
Absolutely spot on. obviously the wrong oil will destroy the engine over a long period of time. in the toys I'm using Mobil1 10-60, its cheaper than turbo's
Apart from the viscosity of your oil, you should also ensure the correct ACEA specification for your engine is being used. There are many different ACEA spec 5w30 fully synthetic engine oils and using the wrong spec can give you major grief.
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