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Thread: A bit of rust

  1. #1
    Craftsman
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    A bit of rust

    Having a bit of a nightmare with my car, a 2008 Jaguar XF Premium Luxury.

    When I bought the car, second hand in early 2017, some small blisters where noticed in the middle of the NS front door. It looked like some reaction in the paint, possibly after a minor repair. The selling dealer agreed to sort it out along with a couple of other scratches. After 3 attempts and after every one the blisters started to come back around 3 or 4 weeks later. They had the paint manufacturer out and had the paint shop manager oversee everything. Door stripped, acid washed etc. 3 weeks later the little blisters started to re appear.

    I though they were wet flatting it and the moisture was coming to the surface and a friend with a body shop agreed. The dealer agreed to another body shop of my choice looking over it.

    Taking the car into my friends and stripping the paint, this is what we found and he and I was very surprised. The small blisters were actually rust spots! When I referred it back to the dealer (not a Jaguar AD) they dropped it like a hot brick and refused to do anything.



    Down to me then, I thought just sort it out it's nothing major. First we pierced every small blister we could find



    Then we welded in dent pins



    and ground them back so all good metal



    Guess what just over 4 weeks later small blisters start to appear on the door and similar have started to appear on the drivers door.

    Completely miffed I sourced a replacement door. I noticed that the new door (from a newer car) had a spray type of sound deadening foam inside the panel where my original had a stick on pad type. When I pulled off the stick on panel in the original door I was met with this,



    A perfect square of rust, which cannot be seen without removing the sound pad.



    As the drivers door has now started to do the same I need to address that one next.

    Anyone else experienced anything like this? Is it a known problem with the early XF's? I did contact Jaguar last year asking for their thoughts on the blisters and they refused to even have a look at it.

    I think there must be some kind of water based glue or sealer used to stick these pads on which hadn't dried properly when originally fitted.

    I'd like to hear what you think and should I try to involve Jaguar again even though the car is 10yrs old (Jaguar rust warranty is 6yrs).

    Neil

  2. #2
    Craftsman
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    That looks horrific! Not had experience with Jaguar rust, but interested to hear how this thread progresses. Hope you get it sorted and it does not spread.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    You could always talk to Auto Express, they pursue car companies when buyers get screwed around.
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  4. #4
    I claimed for rusting wings on my 10 year old VW Golf which were rusting from inside out, which they cover. Not without a battle of words of course where I had to contact the Chief Executive/Executive Office.

  5. #5
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    I think I'll be passing on anything beginning with Jaguar, for my entire lifetime.

    Sorry you're having $h1te tho....

  6. #6
    Master RossC's Avatar
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    My friends 2009 XF R is also having rust problems.

    His boot lid was getting a little unsightly so his local bodyshop sorted it out for £540 and have made a beautiful job of it, but after the work was finished, they warned that the rust was deep rooted and would likely return at some point in the future.

    Both of his front wings have now started.

    Many manufacturers now offer a 12 year corrosion warranty, so had Jaguar offered that he would have been fine, but alas, only 6 years with these.

  7. #7
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    That's pretty poor TBH.

    Not what anybody expects or deserves.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  8. #8

    A bit of rust

    No - most manufacturers have managed to galvanise their panels properly for years. Audi recently replaced both of my aluminium wings (just) under the 12 year warranty due to a defect in their preparation before painting.

    Bit surprised Jaguar not been more helpful as those doors are terrible and shouldnít have rusted like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  9. #9
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Is it brand arrogance or just plain poor customer service with JLR?.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  10. #10
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    If the rust is coming from inside to out, thatís a manufacturing defect and I would guest covered by manufacturers bodywork warranty.

    Citizens Advice Bureau would advise or trading standards

    Jim

  11. #11
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmcb View Post
    If the rust is coming from inside to out, thatís a manufacturing defect and I would guest covered by manufacturers bodywork warranty.

    Citizens Advice Bureau would advise or trading standards

    Jim
    Should not have to come to this - cr@p manufacturing.

    OP - any Google searches as to if this is a common problem?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  12. #12
    Master
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    Where do they buy their steel these days I wonder.

  13. #13
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  14. #14
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    Where do they buy their steel these days I wonder.
    Jaguar Land Rover is wholly owned by Tata Steel, a rather large Indian company.

  15. #15
    Grand Master
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    I own a 2010 XF so naturally Iím interested in this thread.

    Regarding the rusting doors, the adhesive used on the sound deadening has probably attacked the paint, possibly in combination with the damp that inevitably finds its way into car doors. The sound deadening has acted like a sponge, holding moisture against the metal, which has rusted because the paint has failed.

    This is clearly a result of flawed manufacturing. Customer expectations thesedays are for cars to resist rusting from the inside for at least 10 years and in most cases weíre not disappointed.

    Hopefully by the time mine was built (late 2010) this problem had been erradicated!

    It seems fashinable to knock Jaguar, but Iíve owned two and Iím not disappointed. Much prefer my XF to similar offerings from Audi or BMW, hell will freeze over before Iíll own a Beemer.

  16. #16
    Craftsman
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    Iíve just come across another incident which was exactly the same as mine. Jaguar refused to help until the media got involved and then they swapped all 4 doors.

    http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/15980...gs-rusty-doors

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    I think there must be some kind of water based glue or sealer used to stick these pads on which hadn't dried properly when originally fitted.
    I think a more likely explanation would be that the pad material used is absorbent and has retained water against the panel, rather than the adhesive used.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    I think a more likely explanation would be that the pad material used is absorbent and has retained water against the panel, rather than the adhesive used.

    R
    It must be this as the rusted area perfectly matches the pad and now way would the adhesive have been applied that precisely. In the winter it's probably the equivalent of having a damp sponge permanently pressed against the inside of the door panel

  19. #19
    Master Xantiagib's Avatar
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    and they used the wrong sort of adhesive - one with water in it or that has reacted with the metal and in turn that has accelerated and/or even caused the corrosion

    how can they get it so wrong - my 2006 renault scenic had a 12 year anti corrosion warranty on it - been deep scratched and dented in the 9 years we had it (wife's car ahem)
    and not a sign of corrosion anywhere

  20. #20
    Craftsman
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    I own a 2012 XFR , I had rust starting around the boot trim but it was easily sorted . My Mercedes E class rusted horribly as well , so much for premium manufacturers eh ?

  21. #21
    Master
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    By the time I was 2 lines into the original post I was saying "that's rusting inside out"

    You can pretty much guarantee that any bubbling of paint on a modern car is NOT surface rust. And by the time you see it it means the panel either needs replaced (if it's a bolt off job) or the metal needs cut out and a repair panel welded in. I don't know why body shops continue to sand back and repaint rust instead of quoting to do the job properly.

    The sound deadening retaining moisture will 100% be the cause here rather than adhesive. If it's foam it will be slightly abrasive and it's there to damp the drumming vibrations of the door panel so it's effectively been wet sanding the inside of the door.... which looks like it's primed rather than fully finished (not unusual)

    Issues like this aren't exclusive to Jaguar. It's how a manufacturer deals with it that counts and it seems most don't resolve the cause.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MB2 View Post
    No - most manufacturers have managed to galvanise their panels properly for years. Audi recently replaced both of my aluminium wings (just) under the 12 year warranty due to a defect in their preparation before painting.

    Bit surprised Jaguar not been more helpful as those doors are terrible and shouldnít have rusted like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Even galvanising can be overcome by sticking wet foam up against it. Happened to my SEAT which had foam above the wheel arch which held road water against the panel.

    The weasels tried to wriggle out of the anti perforation warranty too, even though the failure on both sides corresponded to the placement of the foam.

  23. #23
    Craftsman
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    I can remember golfs having a similer problem where sound deadening foam was put under the front wings and just soaked up water and rotted the metal

  24. #24
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xantiagib View Post
    and they used the wrong sort of adhesive - one with water in it or that has reacted with the metal and in turn that has accelerated and/or even caused the corrosion

    how can they get it so wrong - my 2006 renault scenic had a 12 year anti corrosion warranty on it - been deep scratched and dented in the 9 years we had it (wife's car ahem)
    and not a sign of corrosion anywhere
    Salt on UK roads is the major factor, Iím guessing this doesnít happen where you live.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Rust on a fairly modern car? A premium model at that, I'm astounded TBH.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  26. #26
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael 38 View Post
    I can remember golfs having a similer problem where sound deadening foam was put under the front wings and just soaked up water and rotted the metal
    Yep had 2 wings replaced on my Mk5 Golf under warranty for that very reason.

  27. #27
    Master
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    Silver too, always sticks out after repaint so what a bummer.

  28. #28
    Apprentice
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Is it brand arrogance or just plain poor customer service with JLR?.
    Disappointingly to say, both.

    I won't go into the full detail as it's available here https://www.jaguarforum.com/showthre...=1#post1157353

    walkerwek1958 - I would take a door card off and check to be sure, and I'd be interested to know if they'd 'found' the issue and started a new process by the time they got to your car build date. You will be able to see bubbling around the edges of the panel where surface rust is creeping under the primer.

    To outright deny the problem is just not what you should expect from a premium manufacturer of expensive cars.

    Keith

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