8500 PO (titanium) Vs Pelagos LHD Vs GS SBGA031

[wadsy]

I'm considering a titanium diver to fit in-between my Sinn T2 and Speedmaster as a 'smarter' tool-dive watch.

Due to the state of my health, one of my main priorities is comfort; so needs to be quite light on its bracelet (sub 140g ideally) and have a smooth underside/bracelet edges too!...I've found some can be a bit harsh.

I really like the T2, but I think it's much more of a tool watch.

Anyway, thoughts on the above appreciated

Or, does the T2 do the job?!

Cheers

[danmiddle2]

I'm considering a titanium diver to fit in-between my Sinn T2 and Speedmaster as a 'smarter' tool-dive watch.

Due to the state of my health, one of my main priorities is comfort; so needs to be quite light on its bracelet (sub 140g ideally) and have a smooth underside/bracelet edges too!...I've found some can be a bit harsh.

I really like the T2, but I think it's much more of a tool watch.

Anyway, thoughts on the above appreciated

Or, does the T2 do the job?!

Cheers

IMHO The SBGA031 is just a cut above... I am lucky enough to have a steel PO 8500, a 126660 DSSD and many (MANY) other divers across a spectrum of price points... and the SBGA031 is simply the highest quality and finish of all of them.

[ryanb741]

Of those watches the GS is the highest quality from a fit and finish perspective but of course that's not everything to watch buyers (otherwise no way would Rolex outsell the competition if quality was the overriding factor).

I really like the Planet Ocean- Pelagos is nice but not in the same category as the latest Planet Ocean but again the GS is a step above and if I was on the fence having to choose I'd go for the GS pre owned

[Morning Wood]

I've had both the titanium PO and the Ti GS diver but for overall comfort neither of them come close to the SM300 Master Coaxial shown below and there's a very nice example right now on SC.

[AlexL]

GS is better not only in finish department, but in reliability too. And of course in accuracy.


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[Kirk280]

I handled the Pelagos LHD recently and I was quite smitten by it, the ‘aged lume’ and red accents really work in the flesh. If only the crown was on the other side! (Why don’t they make a ‘normal’ version with this colour scheme?)

The GS looks ugly in comparison imho.

[Dark Side of The Loon]

Of those watches the GS is the highest quality from a fit and finish perspective but of course that's not everything to watch buyers (otherwise no way would Rolex outsell the competition if quality was the overriding factor).

I think this is wrong. Rolex fit and finish is impeccable, as is the reliability and accuracy of its movements. It’s not complicated finishing or decoration of movements, but what is done is done very well.

Grand Seiko are especially lacking in regards to clasps (no micro-adjust or easylink) apart from their (rather large) divers. Their automatic movements also seem to be somewhat less accurate than the very rigorous +2/-2 s. standard recently introduced for Rolex. Of course, Seiko could point an accuracy fetishist in the direction of the quartz or Spring Drive movements (and it is indeed a shame that Rolex did not continue their quartz production), but to guarantee +/- 2 seconds per day on a mass produced and reasonably affordable mechanical movement is extraordinarily impressive in my opinion.

I don’t have it in for Seiko - quite the opposite, they are my favourite manufacturer at the moment. Nor am I uncritical of Rolex; their designs have become less elegant over the past decade or so, and the only current one I really want is that silver dialled Daytona. Nonetheless, it is incorrect to say that Rolex are not at the top of their game quality wise.

Apologies for the diversion, but I do think it’s important not to view Rolex as accidentally popular, or esteemed because enthusiasts are merely dupes for advertising.

[danmiddle2]

I think this is wrong. Rolex fit and finish is impeccable, as is the reliability and accuracy of its movements. It’s not complicated finishing or decoration of movements, but what is done is done very well.

Rolex fit and finish is very good. GS is exceptional. Have you ever handled the two side-by-side? (I speak as someone who loves both brands)

Grand Seiko are especially lacking in regards to clasps (no micro-adjust or easylink) apart from their (rather large) divers.

My SBGA031 has micro adjustment in the clasp. I will concede on this front it is not as nice as the micro adjust on the DSSD. Not sure if you consider this a "rather large" diver or not... but being 6ft5 and nearly 130kg, I guess I need rather large!

Their automatic movements also seem to be somewhat less accurate than the very rigorous +2/-2 s. standard recently introduced for Rolex.

My experience could not differ more... even the non-GS automatics and even excluding spring drive as an "automatic" which I would not... I find my MM300, for example, to be more accurate than my Rolex or Omega watches... even the new 126660 with updated movement. I think they claim less, but deliver more.

Of course, Seiko could point an accuracy fetishist in the direction of the quartz or Spring Drive movements (and it is indeed a shame that Rolex did not continue their quartz production), but to guarantee +/- 2 seconds per day on a mass produced and reasonably affordable mechanical movement is extraordinarily impressive in my opinion.

Do Rolex guarantee this? In which case, can I get my new 126660 bought up to this standard for free? I don't think they do offer a guarantee.

I don’t have it in for Seiko - quite the opposite, they are my favourite manufacturer at the moment. Nor am I uncritical of Rolex; their designs have become less elegant over the past decade or so, and the only current one I really want is that silver dialled Daytona. Nonetheless, it is incorrect to say that Rolex are not at the top of their game quality wise.

Apologies for the diversion, but I do think it’s important not to view Rolex as accidentally popular, or esteemed because enthusiasts are merely dupes for advertising.

I do not disagree that Rolex popularity is for good reason, but they really do not quite meet the build quality of GS, IMHO.

[wadsy]

Thanks for all the replies/input chaps

[wadsy]

Could be of interest, but one I'd have to try on as I've read/seen the straight lugs may not sit too well on a smaller wrist?...mine is approx 160mm.

I've had both the titanium PO and the Ti GS diver but for overall comfort neither of them come close to the SM300 Master Coaxial shown below and there's a very nice example right now on SC.

[Dark Side of The Loon]

My SBGA031 has micro adjustment in the clasp. I will concede on this front it is not as nice as the micro adjust on the DSSD. Not sure if you consider this a "rather large" diver or not... but being 6ft5 and nearly 130kg, I guess I need rather large!

- I would consider it as rather large, though that's not to say that it won't suit some people. It's more the point that whereas Rolex makes some form of micro-adjustment available to every Rolex model (apart from the Day-Date), only large sports GS models have it. I think this is the primary fault of most Grand Seiko models. Simple micro-adjustment would be enough for most people... having to visit a jewellers/remove a link every time the weather changes significantly is a pain.

My experience could not differ more... even the non-GS automatics and even excluding spring drive as an "automatic" which I would not... I find my MM300, for example, to be more accurate than my Rolex or Omega watches... even the new 126660 with updated movement. I think they claim less, but deliver more.

- I must say that I do not base this on any research or personal experience, just on the odd comment I'd seen on forums and on the Seiko/Grand Seiko published tolerances. I'm glad to hear I may be wrong re: Seiko accuracy, though Rolex accuracy has for some time been reported as generally excellent

Do Rolex guarantee this? In which case, can I get my new 126660 bought up to this standard for free? I don't think they do offer a guarantee.

- In truth I don't know, but if it is performing outside of the stated chronometer classification (especially within the now five year warranty) I would be surprised if they didn't offer to regulate it.

I haven't had any real time with Grand Seikos, which is something I'd like to change in the future. Seen them about but never worn or inspected them. I particularly like the SBGV009 that came out a few years ago.


To the OP: All three of those are good watches, albeit all at quite different prices. You mention case sharpness... I do remember reading a complaint or two about Pelagos' being very sharply cut, though as always these reports are not universal and will differ according to individual tolerances and wrist shapes. Would it be easy for you to try on some/all of these watches? There's the GS boutique in London and Tudor is reasonably widely stocked. Sinn more of a pain perhaps.

Is titanium a must-have (allergy?) or a preference? 140 grams isn't that removed from some steel divers (SKX007: 142gr, 16610 Submariner Date: 135gr).

Putting a watch on a fabric strap could reduce weight yet further... I've found Eulit perlons very comfortable and light-weight.

Is there a budget? If it extends quite some way, then a Blancpain Bathyscaphe can be found in titanium...

[ryanb741]

I think this is wrong. Rolex fit and finish is impeccable, as is the reliability and accuracy of its movements. It’s not complicated finishing or decoration of movements, but what is done is done very well.

Grand Seiko are especially lacking in regards to clasps (no micro-adjust or easylink) apart from their (rather large) divers. Their automatic movements also seem to be somewhat less accurate than the very rigorous +2/-2 s. standard recently introduced for Rolex. Of course, Seiko could point an accuracy fetishist in the direction of the quartz or Spring Drive movements (and it is indeed a shame that Rolex did not continue their quartz production), but to guarantee +/- 2 seconds per day on a mass produced and reasonably affordable mechanical movement is extraordinarily impressive in my opinion.

I don’t have it in for Seiko - quite the opposite, they are my favourite manufacturer at the moment. Nor am I uncritical of Rolex; their designs have become less elegant over the past decade or so, and the only current one I really want is that silver dialled Daytona. Nonetheless, it is incorrect to say that Rolex are not at the top of their game quality wise.

Apologies for the diversion, but I do think it’s important not to view Rolex as accidentally popular, or esteemed because enthusiasts are merely dupes for advertising.

Hi. Appreciate that everyone has a different opinion but when it comes to fit and finish of GS vs Rolex it really isn't close to be fair - the GS is materially better finished from a dial, hands and case perspective. I really mean miles better.

Of course Rolex isn't about fit and finish per se - rather the tried and tested robust movements, anti corrosive cases, anti magnetic qualities (although surpassed by Omega in this regard), overall design etc and so on so I'm not saying GS is a better watch than Rolex when comparing the whole package but when it comes to the aesthetics of dial, hands and case of GS then it is Patek and Moser that I make the comparisons with GS and not Rolex as Rolex is not at the races in this regard.

[danmiddle2]

- I would consider it as rather large, though that's not to say that it won't suit some people. It's more the point that whereas Rolex makes some form of micro-adjustment available to every Rolex model (apart from the Day-Date), only large sports GS models have it. I think this is the primary fault of most Grand Seiko models. Simple micro-adjustment would be enough for most people... having to visit a jewellers/remove a link every time the weather changes significantly is a pain.

I do miss micro-adjustment on the SBGE001, however it allows for a far more delicate clasp as a result.

- I must say that I do not base this on any research or personal experience, just on the odd comment I'd seen on forums and on the Seiko/Grand Seiko published tolerances. I'm glad to hear I may be wrong re: Seiko accuracy, though Rolex accuracy has for some time been reported as generally excellent

Both brands are very good, but I do find my (high end) Seiko's to be my most accurate... especially Spring Drive, of course. I've never really understood the argument for discounting this from discussions on automatic movements. To me it would be a bit like discussing the fastest hypercars yet discounting the "holy trinity" because they are hybrids. Seiko is using a brilliant innovation to improve the accuracy of mechanical wristwatches... Watchmakers have been innovating for years and I don't really see this as any different.

- In truth I don't know, but if it is performing outside of the stated chronometer classification (especially within the now five year warranty) I would be surprised if they didn't offer to regulate it.

I highly doubt they will do that for free unless it is wildly out... I am finding it to be +/- more like 3 seconds per day. Not enough different to worry me.

I haven't had any real time with Grand Seikos, which is something I'd like to change in the future. Seen them about but never worn or inspected them. I particularly like the SBGV009 that came out a few years ago.

I highly recommend giving one a try. I'm not familiar with the SBGV009 as almost all of my collection are Divers. If you're about in the Midlands area at all, you'd be welcome to come and look at mine and compare it with some of the others.

[wadsy]

To the OP: All three of those are good watches, albeit all at quite different prices. You mention case sharpness... I do remember reading a complaint or two about Pelagos' being very sharply cut, though as always these reports are not universal and will differ according to individual tolerances and wrist shapes. Would it be easy for you to try on some/all of these watches? There's the GS boutique in London and Tudor is reasonably widely stocked. Sinn more of a pain perhaps.

Is titanium a must-have (allergy?) or a preference? 140 grams isn't that removed from some steel divers (SKX007: 142gr, 16610 Submariner Date: 135gr).

Putting a watch on a fabric strap could reduce weight yet further... I've found Eulit perlons very comfortable and light-weight.

Is there a budget? If it extends quite some way, then a Blancpain Bathyscaphe can be found in titanium...

I have had a Pelagos before and let it go due to lack of comfort for me; I'm just wondering, as I love the design whether to give it another go and give it more time to see if I can used to it!

It's not easy for me to get out and go and try on, especially into London where the fumes are too much for me!

The Sinn T2 I already have and, as an everyday tool-diver, it's great for me.

I'm looking at titanium to keep the weight down. I liked the 8500 PO I had, but at approx 180g it was too heavy.

Not a fan of the SKX007.

I'd thought about a Sub; would it be worth upping the budget for?...I thought I'd want a later version with the newer clasp???

If I bought a watch with a bracelet, I'd want the versatility of being able to wear it on the bracelet as well as on other straps.

Budget wise, I was considering up to about 3k.

Oh, and my wrist is approx 160mm, so maybe the GS at 44mm is out?

[danmiddle2]

I have had a Pelagos before and let it go due to lack of comfort for me; I'm just wondering, as I love the design whether to give it another go and give it more time to see if I can used to it!

It's not easy for me to get out and go and try on, especially into London where the fumes are too much for me!

The Sinn T2 I already have and, as an everyday tool-diver, it's great for me.

I'm looking at titanium to keep the weight down. I liked the 8500 PO I had, but at approx 180g it was too heavy.

Not a fan of the SKX007.

I'd thought about a Sub; would it be worth upping the budget for?...I thought I'd want a later version with the newer clasp???

If I bought a watch with a bracelet, I'd want the versatility of being able to wear it on the bracelet as well as on other straps.

Budget wise, I was considering up to about 3k.

Oh, and my wrist is approx 160mm, so maybe the GS at 44mm is out?

I am a bit far from you, but you'd be welcome to come and try on my GS... it doesn't wear nearly as big as other similar sized watches... but I am a big bloke, so not really an issue for me.

[wadsy]

I am a bit far from you, but you'd be welcome to come and try on my GS... it doesn't wear nearly as big as other similar sized watches... but I am a big bloke, so not really an issue for me.

Probably a bit far, thanks for the offer though

[manganr]

I've had all three and the only one I've kept is the Pelagos. That's not to say the others aren't great, just the Pelagos was the one for me. The quality of the GS was amazing and one of my true regrets in letting it go. The only thing that let it down was the clasp which is EXACTLY the same clasp used on the Orient sat divers and the MM300 but with a GS stamp on it. Very functional but given it's price point is disappointing. The PO was great but didn't hold any magic for me. It really is about taste. I'd try all three if you can though they're going to be a tough bunch to sample side by side.

[wadsy]

I've had all three and the only one I've kept is the Pelagos. That's not to say the others aren't great, just the Pelagos was the one for me. The quality of the GS was amazing and one of my true regrets in letting it go. The only thing that let it down was the clasp which is EXACTLY the same clasp used on the Orient sat divers and the MM300 but with a GS stamp on it. Very functional but given it's price point is disappointing. The PO was great but didn't hold any magic for me. It really is about taste. I'd try all three if you can though they're going to be a tough bunch to sample side by side.

I've bought a Pelagos LHD to try!...and when I've sold the ones I have on SC at the moment I'm tempted to get the PO to compare!

[danmiddle2]

I've bought a Pelagos LHD to try!...and when I've sold the ones I have on SC at the moment I'm tempted to get the PO to compare!

Nice, congratulations and don't forget to follow up with some pics and your conclusion!

[manganr]

That was quick. I had A Stab for a LHD for ages as I have a Blue. If you decide it's not for you, let me know.

[wadsy]

Nice, congratulations and don't forget to follow up with some pics and your conclusion!

Thanks, I'll see what I can do!

[wadsy]

That was quick. I had A Stab for a LHD for ages as I have a Blue. If you decide it's not for you, let me know.

Will do