The fundraiser is dying

[ejtrent]

Monthly payments are so normal now, with Netflix, Amazon, Twitch, Adobe. People are very used to the subscription model now

[hafle]

A fee to access SC might work well, but at the same time it could reduce thenumber od watches offered to members. I.e why pay to sell a watch here when you could just sell it elsewhere for free instead.

[The_Perfect_Sandwich]

I use the app and get no banners and no information about the fundraiser. The only time I see anything about it is when it’s mentioned in posts.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Franky Four Fingers]

Seems perfectly clear: - Eddie states "10% of the proceeds of all sales". 'Proceeds' is the amount realised from a sale, not the margin.
As someone else has already said, maybe the idea is to deter dealers.

I fear that would also remove lots of great watches from the forum. Who's going to sell a watch with a £1000 selling fee on here when they could sell it for a fraction of the cost elsewhere?

[Enda]

What about a £5-£10 fee to create a sales post?

[reecie]

I imagine you are getting into a mess of unwanted business tax implications once you start down a path of fees.

[pacifichrono]

I'll be posting a watch for the Fundraiser by morning.

[dforgrieve]

I have done a couple of giveaways for the fundraiser. I admit to being lax in checking if the donations were made.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

[teadazed]

Long time lurker here, I don't use SC but they're good causes and this was a useful reminder as I don't remember seeing the banner for a while until recently.
Donated as thanks for the continued use of the forum and because of the charities involved.

[wicheda]

Just chucked a small donation in as thanks for a great site.

[Peck]

You’ve got hoovers hoovering, blatant dealers listing £30k+ cars and endless ‘electronics clearouts’ never contributing a penny and then the likes of Kev diligently sticking his 10% in on a Rolex sale. Just seems so wrong somehow, but I don’t think there’s an easy way to fix it.

I’m off to chuck a few quid in now - long live the fundraiser and thanks to our host!

[astonandy]

I agree that one way to raise the profile is to reset the total. With a casual glance it looks like it's raised that much this year and another contribution won't be missed. Adding some updated totals and goals would help too. Even if the stated expectation from everyone selling a watch was a fixed MINIMUM of £X (with dealers paying more) and for anything else over £50 was £Y (say £30 for a watch and £10 for anything else except cars and bikes) then the amount raised would go up considerably without the need for a fee-based system.

[Wolfie]

An idea…. An additional subscriber avatar (something with a halo 😇!!!)…. People are keen to hit the 1k or 10k mark…. Why not have a special Avtar (£15-£20 a year?) and it shows you do your bit for the fundraiser…?

We’d sort out who are the good guys!

[Gee252]

I think we all just need to be more active with the fundraiser.
I love this forum and although have gave to a few auctions or good causes not actually had input directly to the fundraiser!
I have a Casio I picked up with a heads up on Amazon never had it out of the tin it came in so although not a massive contribution but hope it helps Eddie.
I am on holiday but will post on sales corner tomorrow so come on boys and girls let's raise some brass (excuse the Yorkshire pun) for this great forum and good causes it supports.

[Foxy100]

Eddie, I just had a look to see if I could set up a regular donation, say £10 per month, but there's no option for a repeat donation. I'd be happy to set one up for the start of the month and I wonder if others would too, at the amount of their choosing. It wouldn't I don't think stop people donating extra, or selling stuff for the fundraiser, and most people wouldn't notice a small amount coming out of their account every month. Is it possible to add the option to the donation page please?

[woodacre1983]

Eddie, I just had a look to see if I could set up a regular donation, say £10 per month, but there's no option for a repeat donation. I'd be happy to set one up for the start of the month and I wonder if others would too, at the amount of their choosing. It wouldn't I don't think stop people donating extra, or selling stuff for the fundraiser, and most people wouldn't notice a small amount coming out of their account every month. Is it possible to add the option to the donation page please?

That’s a great idea. I’d be in for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mjc1216]

I have watched over the last 2 weeks at the number of items sold on SC and then the number of donations made.

I think it is less than 20% of people who sell items donate.

It is not for me to name and shame them but people using SC are really taking the pi$$.

[Suds]

Hm my car detailing site charges a monthly/annual fee for selling, however If sellers are reluctant to donate (for whatever reason) perhaps consider splitting requested donation between buyer and seller? As a buyer I would be more than happy to post that I was making my contribution as a reminder to the seller- I might even make it a 'condition/expectation' that seller matches my donation...certainly worth a try

I would be happy to volunteer to monitor SC/donations and send a very polite reminder to individuals via PM, say 4-6 weeks after transaction as a filip??

[blackal]

Seems perfectly clear: - Eddie states "10% of the proceeds of all sales". 'Proceeds' is the amount realised from a sale, not the margin.

As someone else has already said, maybe the idea is to deter dealers.

I fear that would also remove lots of great watches from the forum. Who's going to sell a watch with a £1000 selling fee on here when they could sell it for a fraction of the cost elsewhere?

As far as I can see - the 10% is applicable to those who fall into the category of “dealer” only? (Unless there has been an update to that policy?)

It seems like a lot of people are implying that all sales should attract a levy to the fundraiser - basing it on some wording somewhere in the SC rules??

[Kingstepper]

As far as I can see - the 10% is applicable to those who fall into the category of “dealer” only? (Unless there has been an update to that policy?)

It seems like a lot of people are implying that all sales should attract a levy to the fundraiser - basing it on some wording somewhere in the SC rules??

I certainly didn't mean to imply that.

[blackal]

I certainly didn't mean to imply that.

Apologies, wasn’t sure if you were or not.

[blackal]

I have watched over the last 2 weeks at the number of items sold on SC and then the number of donations made.

I think it is less than 20% of people who sell items donate.

It is not for me to name and shame them but people using SC are really taking the pi$$.

Are you talking about private sales or dealer sales (or both)?

There isn’t (as far as I can see) an expectation for private sales - to contribute to the fundraiser.

Or -can you point me to that expectation?

Maybe it is there, and I cannot see it.

[Kingstepper]

Apologies, wasn’t sure if you were or not.

No problem! My post was in the context of what dealers are supposed to be paying.

[mjc1216]

Are you talking about private sales or dealer sales (or both)?

There isn’t (as far as I can see) an expectation for private sales - to contribute to the fundraiser.

Or -can you point me to that expectation?

Maybe it is there, and I cannot see it.

No there isn't BUT i feel there should be but that will be up to Eddie.

I have only sold 2 items this year on SC and always contribute to the fund but i have seen others including dealers not contribute after a sale.

Some people are now using SC to save on fees on ebay etc.

I feel sorry for Eddie as it can't be easy to police the fees from SC.

[sundial]

How about sellers including an ƒ symbol in front of their sales post title, or as a final character at the end of the title, indicating they are making a ƒundraiser donation.

Voluntary of course … but would identify those who donate and those who do not.

On a Mac keyboard, ƒ = alt/option and F

On a Windows keyboard ƒ = Alt and 159 … with Num Lock activated

dunk

[sundial]

Im happy to be corrected but theres around 13000 members registered here, of which around 4500 are ‘active’ (debatable). Some of the active are good some bad, some toxic (read bored trolls) which you get on most forums to be fair. If everyone just the active paid £25 for a year, thats £2 a month, 50p a week that would raise £100k+ and inside 10 years without much effort you’d have a million quid! Impressive. Lets face it SC donations are an honesty bar, no ones paying 10% of the sale unless they have double that as a margin and even then its debatable. Also its never been clarified to the best of my knowledge whether its supposed to be a percentage of the total sale price or the margin, the latter is the only feasible option.

The forum is great, its been fantastic and I cant help feel that a subscription would deter the strokers away but if they did stay at least we would know they were paying to annoy everyone! I am not usually one for smoking Eddie like some at every opportunity but will say that the time, effort, patience and dedication that goes into making this forum plus the pleasure that the ‘active’ take from it plus the cohesion it creates with people, most of whom have only ever met at coffee shops briefly, is incredible and someone would be drafting a honours proposal for EP.

4500 active members paying obligatory £25 p.a. = £125,000 'service charge' … and which is liable to VAT because the VAT threshold is £85,000

dunk

[Enoch]

How about sellers including an ƒ symbol in front of their sales post title, or as a final character at the end of the title, indicating they are making a ƒundraiser donation.

Voluntary of course … but would identify those who donate and those who do not.

On a Mac keyboard, ƒ = alt/option and F

On a Windows keyboard ƒ = Alt and 159 … with Num Lock activated

dunk

Some people prefer to donate anonymously..

[sundial]

Some people prefer to donate anonymously..

As do I … thus show donations as 'ANON' … to confuse the 'clever dickie' forum police

But would still be happy to annotate a sales post with a simple symbol to advise a donation will be made.

dunk

[alexaff]

I’ll be back soon with some jewellery for Xmas so that’ll give it a good bump!

[murkeywaters]

Personally I dont think a fee to login/see SC is a good option, the slightest amount will drop the overall members on here and then the forum will probabley not be able to charge as much for advertising.

The main reason is people having their cake and eating it, some people do pipe up and shout dealer for which they are then shot down for thread crapping or accused of forum police, the dealer then just saunts off into the shadows with his pockets full ready for the next deal to post up.

Example a few years ago was BigBird, I accused him of sounding like a dealer and was lambasted by his "mates", not long after he was caught out, that one person could have donated a sizeable amount to the forum and not got ran out of town had he played fair.

There is many routes to go down here but most of them require someone keeping an eye on things, I imagine Eddie cant keep an eye on every deal and moderators are out of the question so some ideas -


1/ Leave the membership to moderate itself and openly ask for guilty parties to make a donation

2/ Allow dealers to come out and pay a fee per year or 10% up to a maximum of £50 per sale - 10 donations of £50 are more acceptable than 1 donation of £500

3/ Open a dealers only area on SC with above fees

4/ OT-Off trade, sales automatically induce a fee 5/10%, OT items seem to be growing in numbers on SC

5/ Embed the fundraiser logo within SC so its seen and clickable


I'm sure there are many more ideas but like I said many of them need to be moderated which is fine, but then whoever shouts out runs the risk of abuse themselves..

[alexaff]

I’m proud to say I’ve donated £10-15k over the 10 years. I’d rather give to charity than to the eBay fat cats. If only others had the same thought process. A lot of people want summit for nowt.

[sundial]

Personally I dont think a fee to login/see SC is a good option, the slightest amount will drop the overall members on here and then the forum will probabley not be able to charge as much for advertising.

The main reason is people having their cake and eating it, some people do pipe up and shout dealer for which they are then shot down for thread crapping or accused of forum police, the dealer then just saunts off into the shadows with his pockets full ready for the next deal to post up.

Example a few years ago was BigBird, I accused him of sounding like a dealer and was lambasted by his "mates", not long after he was caught out, that one person could have donated a sizeable amount to the forum and not got ran out of town had he played fair.

There is many routes to go down here but most of them require someone keeping an eye on things, I imagine Eddie cant keep an eye on every deal and moderators are out of the question so some ideas -


1/ Leave the membership to moderate itself and openly ask for guilty parties to make a donation

2/ Allow dealers to come out and pay a fee per year or 10% up to a maximum of £50 per sale - 10 donations of £50 are more acceptable than 1 donation of £500

3/ Open a dealers only area on SC with above fees

4/ OT-Off trade, sales automatically induce a fee 5/10%, OT items seem to be growing in numbers on SC

5/ Embed the fundraiser logo within SC so its seen and clickable


I'm sure there are many more ideas but like I said many of them need to be moderated which is fine, but then whoever shouts out runs the risk of abuse themselves..

Any obligatory 'fees' could be liable to VAT … VAT admin requires a 'VAT accounting system' and would be subject to VAT inspectors' "nosing around" periodically.

dunk

[murkeywaters]

Any obligatory 'fees' could be liable to VAT … VAT admin requires a 'VAT accounting system' and would be subject to VAT inspectors' "nosing around" periodically.

dunk

So what about the fees now that are paid to the fundraiser? there are openly dealers here that stick to the 10% that is required so is that obligatory?

[sundial]

So what about the fees now that are paid to the fundraiser? there are openly dealers here that stick to the 10% that is required so is that obligatory?

They're 'voluntary contributions' and not 'obligatory'

Really needs a tax expert to advise whether or not an obligatory fee is subject to VAT … but TTBOMK if a sales provider/agent is in effect charging an obligatory 'fee' for the 'service', then once cumulative fees exceed the VAT threshold then there is a potential VAT liability … unless the 'service' is deemed 'exempt' from, or 'outside the scope' of, VAT.

VAT law / rules and regulations are not straightforward; consideration should be given to 'service providers' potential VAT liabilities before considering introduction of obligatory 'fees' or 'commission' schemes … and it could be further complicated by the fact that the proceeds are being donated to charities.

If a scheme is set up whereby an obligatory fee, commission, or service charge is levied, then once those charges exceed the VAT threshold, there could be a potential VAT output tax liability of £16.67 for every £100 already collected from /donated by the dealers.

Furthermore, the dealer (TZ seller) using the "fee obligatory" 'service' could be entitled to a VAT invoice … enabling recovery of his company's VAT input tax … thus more admin time and effort required by the service provider.

HMRC does not take prisoners … they just charge and penalise when service providers do not comply with, or misinterpret, regulations.

dunk

[Enoch]

As do I … thus show donations as 'ANON' … to confuse the 'clever dickie' forum police

But would still be happy to annotate a sales post with a simple symbol to advise a donation will be made.

dunk

Gotchya👍👍

[Mr Nuttington]

Although I’m a relative newcomer round these parts and therefore do not presume to be entitled to strong opinions, the follow observations do occur to me:

The fundraiser feels to me like a bit of a black hole. In spite of it generating significant sums I haven’t during my brief tenure here seen any feedback from the receiving charities. To be clear I am not remotely intimating that money is not reaching it’s intended recipients, just that seeing some results of the undoubted good our contributions do may be a strong motivator to maintain our exceptional efforts. Perhaps some more direct links with the charities we support could be cultivated?

If more regularly changing specific targets were set it may keep the fundraiser fresh and help motivate us all. I thought the recent sad loss of Karl was a prime example of a situation where we could all get behind a relevant charity for a set period in memoriam in that case or to satisfy a specific need more generally.

Regarding dealer contributions all I would observe from previous experience is that a firm requirement for compulsory financial contributions on a public forum will always rely on honesty and be open to abuse inevitably leading to discontent and ill-feeling - it would be a real shame for such ill-feeling to overshadow the generally great community spirit prevalent around these parts.

In short I think we all respond better to more carrots and fewer sticks.

[-Ally-]

The fundraiser feels to me like a bit of a black hole. In spite of it generating significant sums I haven’t during my brief tenure here seen any feedback from the receiving charities. To be clear I am not remotely intimating that money is not reaching it’s intended recipients

Eddie has posted several letters from the charities IIRC.

[sundial]

Eddie has posted several letters from the charities IIRC.

Yes .. I can recall at least 2 TYVM letters being published

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post2630567

dunk

[swanbourne]

I receive general newsletters from the charities but rarely anything specific to our efforts. When I do receive something specific, I scan it and post it.

Eddie

[murkeywaters]

I receive general newsletters from the charities but rarely anything specific to our efforts. When I do receive something specific, I scan it and post it.

Eddie

There all good causes I'm sure but a bit of gratitude and thanks costs nothing..

[noTAGlove]

I’ve never paid anything into the FR. That’s because I pay £50 per month to two selected charities from my salary, and this is matched by my company. So charity gets more.

[awright101]

I was playing with my wife's new IPad Pro and googled tzuk. On opening I noticed the banner for fundraiser and this immediately reminded me that I owed some cash.
Made me think and when I open my own link on my iPhone and iPad there is no link or reference to the fundraiser.
I appreciate this has been brought up before but I think this might explain why a tail off of donations

[swanbourne]

I was playing with my wife's new IPad Pro and googled tzuk. On opening I noticed the banner for fundraiser and this immediately reminded me that I owed some cash.
Made me think and when I open my own link on my iPhone and iPad there is no link or reference to the fundraiser.
I appreciate this has been brought up before but I think this might explain why a tail off of donations

That's probably because you're ad-blocking.

Eddie

[awright101]

Hi Eddie, not by choice. I wouldn't have a clue how to. I still see the ads at the bottom of threads.