Reply With QuoteWas for sale in Belgium.
Asked a ladyfriend if she would have a look and collect.
She said yes.
Made an offer.
He said yes.
She called him and has it in her van already...
WHÁT bicycle?
Just bought a bicycle.
In 1980 Miyata built a lightweigt bicycle of internally spiraled, double butted Tange tubing for Shimano to showcase their aerodynamic 600 AX (6300) group set.
The bicycle (with very few if any mods) was sold by Koga Miyata, Raleigh, Jan Janssen, Kettell, Shogun and some more.
Mine is by Norta, a Belgium manufacturer.
Bought it from the first owner who got it NOS from a bike shop, fitted new tubulars and did 40 kms. on it.
It comes with aero bidon and all.
Rather innovative for 1980 this level of aerofanatics.
The rear derailer has indexing btw.
The 600 AX was discontinued after only 3 years but it did put Shimano on the map at the leading innovative bike group sets manufacturer.
Although itself ill fated, most innovations in the AX found their way in later models.
A link to the Norta:
http://www.vintagefiets.be/shimano-aero-600-ax-2/
Was for sale in Belgium.
Asked a ladyfriend if she would have a look and collect.
She said yes.
Made an offer.
He said yes.
She called him and has it in her van already...
Have a look at the slippery spacer between the downtube and the bidon.
While you are looking; see the padals with their axis abóve the sole of the shoe!
Mind you, this is 1980; all rather a lót ahead of the users, even at the track!
Most of the bike is a decade ahead of the frontier of the game and several crucial bits make fun of the 1987 cut off date by Eroica rules.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 27th August 2018 at 12:52.
Interesting.
I love extreme design like that.
Off topic...but up to two weeks ago, I owned two of the fastest bicycles in the country.
They were both surplus to requirements, so I left them outside the front of house with a 'free to good home' poster on them. The speed at which they went......
I've had a bike with the Shimano 600 Aero group on it before, was really interesting to look at but of course massively under performs vs its modern counterparts,
I have a couple of bikes in a modern SRAM group but my favourite is my Surly which is running a single indexed dura ace 9sp downtube shifter, lovely and simple ideal for touring and gravel
Yes it is quite extreme; too far ahead to be a milestone even but just about all ove the innovations have become main stream by now.Originally Posted by Tifa
@ejtrent; and that is how it should be. It does help thése brakes if one cuts modern pads to fit the holders. Pad material too has evolved since 1980.
needs elliptical (osymetric) chain rings to make it ultimately extreme....
YES! I've had an 80's bike before with those, my word it looked strange
Those were already available in the 1890s and have reappeared regularly time and again.
I have the BioPace ones on my ´87 Koga Miyata. Broke the crank in a, spectacular!, fall and have a replacement set underway.
Have a Rotor Oval on my XTC.
As much as I lóve them offroad, I like the not on the racing bikes.
Anyway, all in all neither extreme nor innovative really as mainstream and 19th C.
Speaking of which, the 19 C., I am amazed that back then the cycling engineers were more aware of aerodynamics than mainstream cycling during most of the 20th C.!! A perfect example of cycling having been a backwater concerning technologic advances for so long.
Those were already available in the 1890s and have reappeared regularly time and again.
I have the BioPace ones on my ´87 Koga Miyata. Broke the crank in a, spectacular!, fall and have a replacement set underway.
Have a Rotor Oval on my XTC.
As much as I lóve them offroad, I like the not on the racing bikes.
Anyway, all in all neither extreme nor innovative really as mainstream and 19th C.
Speaking of which, the 19 C., I am amazed that back then the cycling engineers were more aware of aerodynamics than mainstream cycling during most of the 20th C.!! A perfect example of cycling having been a backwater concerning technologic advances for so long.
I think the jury is still out with it, Wiggins’s famously won the tour on them (although it wasn’t a very tough year). I think it might be more of a mental gain, in practice I haven’t found them any different - nothing like aero rims vs box section
Have now used them for 31 years back to back with round and háve found them different; the extra leverage works like you have an extra gear lower. You do not ofcourse and you still have to work but it is just that bit easier to maintain the same low grunt for just that little bit longer.
As on the road there are not nearly the same steep short inclines I do not experience the same advantage.
Overall, there is obviously no difference in the effort. You have to deliver the same power. The oval chainring simply shifts the leverage. Take your personal pick when/whether that suits you.
Exactly, I’ve found this very much the case with a lot of cycling ‘tech’
Which brings us back to aero; that does make a difference. From surprisingly low speeds it makes a diffence. I was amázed how much of a difference flat spokes/aero rims make on high speed descends. Even on an mtb these make a lót of difference.
You can/should however ask yourself whether the difference makes any sense as that depends on your riding and goals.
I mean, between a conventional bike and an aero one you wíll be measurably significantly quicker over a long days riding; you wíll have beaten your personal record but... yoú have not; the bike has. Thát is a rather relativating reality of new tech. Well, apart from disk brakes; those are simply safer.
Anyway, back to the bike; I am awed by this level of aerofanatism as far back as 1980 and think it way cool to own.
Meanwhile in Belgium
I had a muddy fox mtb in 1988, IIRC, with the oval chain rings. I always liked them, but no yardstick to judge against as it was my only off road bike at the time.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Ideal cycling weather so....
sparkling ´new´ from 1981.
Will you be donning a Silver Surfer inspired skin suit and aero lid? ;-)
the Cipollini muscle suit ok? I do don thát one!
Still looking for the most outrageous aero.
No photos thanks!
That's a lovely looking bike.
On the ovalised chain rings...I don't think that there is any science that says they are definitively more efficient. Case in point that Sky used them then mostly went back to round rings. Poor front shifting may have played a part in that decision also.
Thank you.
Well, as I wrote, that is a yes and no.On the ovalised chain rings...I don't think that there is any science that says they are definitively more efficient.
The overall wwork remains the same but there ís a different transfer of the power; the power graph is flatter & fatter.
Point in case can be made that Froome is rather successful with the.Case in point that Sky used them then mostly went back to round rings.
The réal point is that it takes getting used to.
Because the geometric argument is undeniable, they have been around since the 19th C.
The human factor, read perception, is another undeniable factor.
Hence a larger popularity with mono set ups in mtb perhaps as the advantage on steep climbs is undeniable.Poor front shifting may have played a part in that decision also.
I experience another ´issue´; the chain is more prone to jump off so a guide is more of a goodie.
On the Koga I have a triple blade and because of the ancient shifters and front derailer neither issue is evident.
I built my first proper race bike with a custom frame and the 600AX groupset in 1984, and raced it like this in the local crits. The hubs were shit, so I had some custom wheels made with Campag Record hubs, and bit by bit, replaced the groupset with proper components. The hype was good from Shimano, and I was young and impressionable!
Those brakes look good! I'm sure that with modern pads, they are exactly as efficient as any other brake of the same mechanical advantage with the same pads. I think Shimano 600 (not sure about 600AX) became, or was renamed, Ultegra eventually. My saddle is perched upon a 600 series seat post. As far as I can differentiate a seat post at all, I think it's a nice one
Thanks for posting the pics and history.
Quite. Spot on both counts; modern pads imakes for ok braking and yes 600 became ´Ultegra´. The ´AX´was dropped.Those brakes look good! I'm sure that with modern pads, they are exactly as efficient as any other brake of the same mechanical advantage with the same pads. I think Shimano 600 (not sure about 600AX) became, or was renamed, Ultegra eventually. My saddle is perched upon a 600 series seat post. As far as I can differentiate a seat post at all, I think it's a nice one
Thanks for posting the pics and history.
Shimano were at the time in a different league concerning innovations; both in innovations and in making steps ahead wórk properly.
With the AX they launched a theír state of the art Aero set which simply had no market for quite some time, basically a decade. Several details on their showpiece bike are stíll only seen on the higher end Aero bikes.
Much if not most of the AX line was sold áfter they had already stopped production and moved on to incorporating lessons learned in just that bit more conventional bits.
On the road today the bike is still awesome. Not in the least like a 1980 vintage steel bike; it is wáy tighter and more rigid. It does not come into it its zone untill you réally stomp on it on smoorth roads. It is not a surprise that it did not catch on; too different and rigid. The quality of the Tange* tubes and the perfect way Miyata brazed it are a step above anything in Columbus or Reynolds from anyone. It realy is a work of artful skill.
Two other things which to mé stand out more than expected are the advances in ergonomics of the ´hoods´ and the saddle.
* still researching this as that info does not add up.
The weight is not in accordance with the Tange #1 tube set and the lighter set it is supposed to have was not availeble till ´84.
Anyhow; for the moment it is Tange untill I can ascertain it is Ishiwata.
Fun that!
Last edited by Huertecilla; 28th September 2018 at 11:59.
The plot is thickening.
Found some info on a Shimano 600 AX bicycle marketed by Remy Claeys (of Flandria):
"Our ´Superia Gemini´ AX comes from a time when the Japanese bicycle industry rocked the market with excellent quality products and out-innovated the old European champions.
The Dutch and Belgian bicycle manufactures were some of the the first to discover the advantages of the new components and consequently outfitted their bikes with them*. Ishiwata 019 and 022 for example, was a typical double butted tubing of a CroMo steel that was of the same quality as Columbus but with an even better finishing.
The Shimano Shimano 600 AX, was developed as one of the early attempts to shape bikes in order to save watts. It features the famous Dyna-Drive Pedals which create a slightly different and lower position without reducing cornering clearance. Thus this 54cm frame is comparable to a normal 56cm frame."
The Ishiwata 019 or 020 was referring to the weight of a complete frame set from the tubing; i.e. 1.9 or 2.2 kilos.
Frame builders would typically use 019 for the smaller frames and the heavier gauge for downtube/chainstays for the larger frames.
The lighter still gauges were for track use, very small frames and light riders. They went to 015 even; 1,5 kilos for a frame set, 0.3 mm!!! on the thinner sections.
* a bit of a misrepresentation because the Shimano bicycle was entirely made, assembled even, in Japan and only some ´producers´ removed the ´Made in Japan´ decal. My Norta has it applied.
For me, 600AX was a triumph of form over function, and it never really lived up to its more conventional stable mate, 600EX (which incidentally was what eventually became Ultegra). In ditching my AX, I used the sublime Suntour Superbe derailleur system, which was smooth and easy shifting, then fitted the incredibly light and responsive Mavic SSC groupset, which was perfect until it wore out too quickly. Though properly indexing gears was probably the greatest advance, they had still not fully come of age in the mid eighties, for me the French ruled the roost with SSC and as an early Look pedal adopter, I thought that they transformed the riding experience.
Superlite versus Super Light. Well, 5 years and a different alloy. This put me on the wrong foor as Superlite was simply nor availeble when the bike was put together.
It appears that the Tange Superlite quoted as the tube material for my Norta should have been mentioned as Super Light.
Now thát makes sense. More sense than Ishiwata. The mention of Ishiwata must be a sellers mistake.
In 1980/81 when the frame was made by Miyata those used several grades of Tange Champion. This is very clearly listed and specified in the 1981 Koga Miyata catalogue.
The top of the range FullPro-L was the Shimano 600 AX with their brand and Tange Champion #1 Super Light tubes.
The next in the list non aero FullPro had Shimano 600 EX and Tange Champion #2 , weighing 0.5 kilo more.
While looking for details read that in 1980 won Pol Verschuere the TdF last etape sprint on the Champs Elysee with his Koga FullPro-L. Does not make the bike any better/worse, still nice.
Btw. my Norta branded one weighs 9.8 kg. ready to ride. Bidon and all.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
In this case the aero form wás the most important function and yes the practical functionality had a lower priority.
Even today aero bikes not still not that all purpose.
In 1980/81 that showpiece aera was simply positioned wrong in the market. Still a milestone and a joy to own a pristine example.
- - - Updated - - -
Ah, the Brexit bike. Good thinking.
When I was ordering my bicycle (pictured in this thread) from the constructor around 2003, the tubing choices were Tange #2, Tange #1 and Tange Prestige in ascending order of price/performance. I believe Prestige was launched in 1984, and Prestige Superlight (for racing only) in 1987. My previous bicycle was a Belgian-made custom Bertin, using Reynolds 531. I'd rate both these and the Tange tubes (I went for the Prestige) as excellent. Differences in riding probably down to the particular thicknesses chosen, design choices and construction quality.
BTW, Yasujiro Tange's name lives on in the bicycle company Yasujiro today.
The quality of the Tange* tubes and the perfect way Miyata brazed it are a step above anything in Columbus or Reynolds from anyone.
It’s a lovely bike but you do spout some crap sometimes!
There are many frame builders out there, as well as tubesets, some are better than others.
I wonder what Dario Pegoretti (RIP), Richard Sachs or Yoshiaki Nagasawa would have to say about your bike?
I know I wouldn’t swap my Pegoretti for yours :-)
That´s a bit brutal but then...
You do have a point though; I should have written any mass producers. With ´mass´defined as production line. With ´production line´ meant as not artesenal/ bespoke.
Thanks for sharing.
I think Ishiwata lives on as Kasei.
The Prestige Superlight was something indeed. At one stage, Colnago was using Tange Ultimate Superlight in their premium "Master-Light". It certainly didn't say that on the seat tube decal!
Victory is mine
Amai!!!
My birthday is coming up and having a bike in the salon has been a long standing ´issue´.
In my previous life I had a classic motorcycle as an object of appreciation in the main living area but the present Dutch girl thought that too whatever. No, a bicycle not having any oil or fuel in it, made no decisive difference.
Turns out that my son has bought a very nice looking bicycle wall hanger.
Secondly she has a long standing issue with one particular wall which is never ever
going to look nice because their is a staircase behind dictating the shape and where it is. A bike would fit and look just right there.
So we goofed around with that, basically just winding her up but...
There is a bicycle coming into the living room!!!!!!!!!!
The Shimano Aero would fit that bill. Two other ones too and that can make for a nice change in decor. May be I can even buy a vintage one for the purpose. Well maybe not just yet ;.)
Posting Permissions
